Boyfriend Wants To Break Up

[Guest ukchris]

Here's the situation:

 

I appreciate any advice, support or information.

 

I am a gay guy been with my bf for about 4 years. I was agnostic, but started reading the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and it opened my eyes.

 

I shared some of my thoughts with him, and now he can't be with me anymore because I consider myself leaning towards Atheisim. If there is a God, I believe that the bible or koran or whatever has no relevance.

 

I have tried reasoning with him, and it seems does have problems with certain aspects of his faith. No intelligent person wouldn't! But he says that the prophesies of the Old Testament PROVE that it's all true. I am not so sure it does. We have no evidence when they were written, and the prophesies are so vague. I am also pretty sure there are failed prophesies that nobody would mention, would be helpful if someone could share.

 

So, I am stuck now. I love this guy, and it seems infinitely unfair and ridiculous for us to be breaking up over a delusion.

 

So in a word......help!

 

Chris

[Light_of_Reason]

Chris,

 

You might want to have your bf look into Thomas Paine's "Examination of the Prophecies." It, by no means, covers all the prophecies, but it critically analyzes enough of the major ones to shed immense levels of doubt upon this particular defense of faith.

 

Best of luck to you, even if things don't turn out well with this bf.

[Vigile]

I'm confused. The church rejects both you guys because you are gay - which is supportable by the bible btw - he ignores this, but turns around and rejects you because you are an atheist. Seems fairly hypocritical. Perhaps you should point that out.

[Guest ukchris]

Thanks, but I doubt he will. I doubt he will even look at websites I direct to him. He would consider that the work of Satan.

 

What strikes me is that God apparently forbade seeking the truth, in the story of Adam and Eve where Adam was sent from the Garden of Eden for eating fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Why would God not want man to know the truth? Answer: Because this story and the whole religion was invented to control primitive people. If they sought answers, then the whole thing might come crashing down.

 

It's amazing that people can believe in something, which prohibits searching for facts and truth. If the creator of the universe wrote the bible, on what LOGICAL grounds would he want intelligent beings to revel in ignorance?

[Guest ukchris]

I'm confused. The church rejects both you guys because you are gay - which is supportable by the bible btw - he ignores this, but turns around and rejects you because you are an atheist. Seems fairly hypocritical. Perhaps you should point that out.

 

I have done. He says that the bible is misinterpreted on this matter. Funny how you all sorts of Christians can twist words and passages to fit with whatever is convenient.

[white_raven23]

Chris.....

 

Hate to break it to ya, your bf wants to end the relationship. You have been together 4 years....and he's done. Simple as that.

 

It just happens to be human nature to need a "reason" for actions. You must be a pretty great and decent guy as you give him no clear cut "reason" for leaving....this makes your bf feel like the "bad guy" for wanting to move on.

 

No one wants to feel like the "bad guy". If your beliefs were really an issue, he would not have stayed with an agnostic for 4 years. The gulf between an agnostic and an atheist is not that wide. But your bf is grasping for any excuse (even a stupid one) to end your relationship.

 

If religion were really the issue, then your bf has bigger issues to work out, as the bible and the christian faith is very intolerant of his sexual orientation.

 

You need to talk to the guy. First....accept the relationship is likely over. Spend some time alone dealing with the adrenal fight flight panic. Cry a bit at the potential loss (keep the massive emotional storm private, he's done nothing to deserve witnessing it aside from just trying to cover his own ass). Now talk to your bf. Don't make it about your beliefs at all. Tell him you accept and understand if he feels you two are on diverging life paths, and that you would greater respect his honesty if this (as you believe likely) were the true reason for his wanting to move on.

 

Don't ask if "there's someone else?"....you really don't want to hear it.

 

Accept that no reason you hear is going to seem "adequate" or understandable. Because they simply won't be. Not to your ear now.....not ever.

 

Even if you won the "fight"....your relationship would limp along for....what....6 more months?

 

I'd say tell your bf, that his decision is his decision, and you aren't going to pretend it doesn't hurt like hell. Wish him the best. Tell him you love him, so any "let's be friends" attempts on his part for the next 3 months will just give you false hopes. Ask him not to do that. To give you a little time to heal. (Even 3 months may not be long enough....6 months may be more reasonable)

 

After he goes.....NOW it's time for the massive emotional meltdown.

 

Don't run out of tissues.

 

Or chocolate.

 

((((HUGS))))

[Checkmate]

One of the Great Mysteries of Life to me is WHY blacks, women and HOMOSEXUALS want to be a part of a religion that HATES them!?

 

Your GAY partner likes the Old testament, huh? Well, then ask him what he thinks about this OT jewel -- "If a man lie with man, as he does with woman, they shall both be put to death."

 

I'm sorry. I KNOW that people can rationalize ANYTHING. I KNOW that there are many churches friendly to homosexuals, and even homosexual preachers. But this whole, "Let's just ignore some of God's more retarded words and hold onto the 'good' bits" attitude drives me insane. It's disingenuous. Either it is ALL "god's word" to be obeyed, or it's ALL nonsense to be ignored. If you're going to "cherry pick" the religion, then why not just start a NEW religion, not based on the stupid bible?

 

Sorry for the rant. This is just a sore spot for me. I know you're looking for advice.

 

My advice? Dump him. I personally don't waste my time with religious nitwits. Since his "faith" is obviously more important than you, then why bother with him?

[Japedo]

 

I'm going to have to agree with WR on this one. The difference between Agnostic and Atheist is nothing really. Neither worship or ascribe to any god or religious doctrine, one just sounds more harsh then the other. It's been a long time for me to personally come to terms with it, but it's the truth of the matter really.

 

I think he's looking for an out and using this as a reason. As Checkmate also says, one can't cherry pick. Maybe he's going thru tons of issues himself? Maybe as your finding your an atheist he's finding himself caught up in the Xtian cult mindset and is listening to people spew bs about sin and lifestyle 'choices'. I know how manipulative the religion can be. Guilt and fear change people, especially when they obsess with it.

 

Perhaps it's a fork in the road for both of you? I wouldn't push the issue and step back and give him space. Debating his 'faith' isn't the same as debating 'truth'. It is the main separation between believers and skeptics. One relies upon blind faith and one solid Truth with evidence. Trying to cast doubt on his faith will in most cases cause people to shut their eyes and plug their ears. They aren't interested and will interpret it as either a test by gawd or a trick by Satan. He will have to find the truth with his own searching, he's going to have to want answers in order to hear them.

[Vigile]

Excellent advice White Raven. You are wise beyond your years.

 

I'm sorry Chris. This must hurt a lot.

[Mikefight]

I broke up with a girl back when I was a xtian because she was not. I did not ask her about religion until after we dated for a while. Thinking back, it was probably because I wanted to break it off anyway. I just used religion as a reason. I guess people feel they need an excuse to break up. I honestly felt it was God calling on me to do it at the time. Man I was so delusional.

[BlueGiant]

Allow me to blink at your (potentially ex-)boyfriend's behavior.

 

*blink* *blink*

 

That being done, this sounds like a pretty flimsy thing and as others have said, a pretext for a breakup. It is probably better to accept that this relationship is over and move on. Seems his religion is flexible enough for him, but he isn't willing to flex it for you.

 

Sorry to hear about the difficulties.

[The Sage Nabooru]

Remember that this is a two-way street.

 

You were previously an agnostic. Were your boyfriend's religious leanings ever an issue before? If not, why are they now? Do you feel compelled to "convert" him to atheism? Do you feel that you cannot be with a person who does not share the same atheism as yourself?

 

Is it possible that you could be the problem? Are you asking him to conform to a belief system with which he is uncomfortable? How would you react if he did the same to you?

 

There is nothing wrong with you being an atheist, I'm just asking if it's possible that perhaps you might be the source of this newfound friction.

[Guest ukchris]

Seems his religion is flexible enough for him, but he isn't willing to flex it for you.

 

Wow, so many great answers, I am overwhelmed with your help and support. Thanks white raven, checkmate, japedo, Vigile, Mikefight and Bluegiant. I really liked the sentence I quoted above, too true.

 

Mikefight: What convinced you that Christianity didn't make much sense?

 

Checkmate: He rationalises that passage you quoted, by saying that "lie" meant something else. I don't know if that's true or not. All I know is that you can translate and twist many words, pick your favorite passages and ignore others, ANYTHING, in order to align the bible with your own thinking. That's why there are so many different churches. If they can't even agree on the truth, how can anybody take any of it seriously? It just astounds me.

 

Whiteraven: Thank you for such a long and thoughtful reply. I can only say that I don't care who is right or wrong. It's not about that for me personally. Whenever I make a mistake I am always quite happy to admit it, but I just can't see any mistake here. I guess that makes me inspired by satan or something, but what I don't get is, why did God create Satan if he knew he was going to turn evil? It's just one of many questions that can't be logically answered by Christians. You have to bend over backwards with bizarre rationalisations to explain such a strange thing.

[Guest ukchris]

The Sage: I didn't try to change his opinion on Christianity until after he broke up with me. Then I did a lot of research and sorta unleashed all that I found. Truth is I didn't even cover 1% of it, and I don't even think he had open ears, or an open mind. He is very stubborn.

[Kurari]

I rather agree with White Raven on this one. Sounds like your bf is fishing for an excuse and thinking his God is sanctioning it helps take the edge off.

 

I suggest not trying to bring up the contradictions and things anymore to him. He's not listening. Christians today follow a

religion and a god that isn't even really IN the Bible anyway. They've cherry picked and morphed their religion into something different for decades. There are over 34,000 denominations of Christianity alone. They don't WANT to listen. Not even to their own god unless it suits them.

 

Some people rationalize the "lie" section of Leviticus as being about not using male prostitutes, not homosexuality in general. But anyway you slice it, does it matter? Not really. Most Christians haven't even read the Bible save for a few key verses and stories. Christianity of today says homosexuals are an abomination. Period.

 

And like my avatar says, god hates bunnies. Most of them don't even know about the bunnies....

[The Sage Nabooru]

The Sage: I didn't try to change his opinion on Christianity until after he broke up with me. Then I did a lot of research and sorta unleashed all that I found. Truth is I didn't even cover 1% of it, and I don't even think he had open ears, or an open mind. He is very stubborn.

 

Is it perhaps possible that you're accusing him of not having an "open mind" because he won't agree with you?

 

I am theist myself but ascribe to no particular religion, and I often have that label thrown at me when I simply don't agree with someone else in either camp. I can understand that you can feel that you've stumbled on a great truth that must be shared, but in that case it would really be no different than if someone else had found great truth in the Bible and felt the need to spread it to you. Like I said, it's a two-way street. People whose beliefs change often feel immediately after the rush of Enlightenment, when they burst with the desire to confront and evangelize to others their newfound philosophy. I find that generally it wears off in time.

 

Of course the possibility is always that he truly did not wish to listen to you, and you are right in your assessment of this. I do think his homosexuality under Christianity is kind of hard to grasp, and if he's willing to remain Christian even after attacks from within that religion on homosexuality, perhaps he simply feels a need to cling to his religion despite everything.

 

I do have to agree with WR in that he might very hard be wishing to end this relationship. In fact he might care less about whatever religious beliefs you may or may not have, your new atheism might have actually simply provided him with a new tool with which to end your relationship.

[Onyx]

He must be an insecure and mixed up guy. Maybe it's best that you dump him already with good wishes.

[Guest ukchris]

Kurari, I agree with you 100%.

 

The Sage: The difference between my enlightenment and that of Christians, is that mine was founded on logic and fact. There is a stark difference there, don't you think?

 

 

Can I throw this question out to you all about homosexuality:

 

Is being gay, and actively, reconcilable with a belief in everything in the bible? Quotes etc. are great.

 

Also where can I find a list of hypocrisies of Christians, and contradictions of the bible? Something easy on the eyes if possible

 

Thanks!

[Onyx]

If you're clever enough, yes. I'll leave this to the heavyweights. I don't really have the energy to write this post out.

[The Sage Nabooru]

The Sage: The difference between my enlightenment and that of Christians, is that mine was founded on logic and fact. There is a stark difference there, don't you think?

 

And you fail to realize that Christians believe the exact same thing?

 

Every evangelical you will meet will claim that his or her beliefs are based entirely on logical thinking and make total sense. They will attempt to prove to you that not only are they totally rational but also superior to every other religion in this respect.

 

The way in which you and Christians are similar is that you come to your particular beliefs because you choose to regard certain things as "fact" and "truth" and others, as not. You, like them, established your own criteria as to what would be acceptable to you. Your criteria is based on your own interpretation of science and fact, their criteria is the Bible. When people who have similar criteria come together, they form religions (or anti-religions). Think of Dawkins and his followers: you choose to accept his beliefs and share them with others, but get upset when others accept others' beliefs or deviate from what you have made your own. In such a situation of course there is going to be friction because you imagine everyone outside "the herd" you have elected to join to be the enemy.

 

All beliefs are made this way. It provides stability to always have a baseline criteria to refer to. But the problem arising, as you will see, is it does in fact close people off. If you continue to insist that only your beliefs and your criteria are acceptable and based in reality, then you will continue to have problems. The issues that arise will not come from your particular beliefs - they rarely do - but from your own attitude.

[Guest ukchris]

The sage, the bible is the most ridiculous source of fact I can imagine. It doesn't even agree with itself. How on earth can a perfect God make mistakes? That's a complete contradiction.

 

Not only that but the bible is barely even relevant anymore. It was a primitive handbook. Christians conveniently forget parts that don't fit with their morality. How can you believe in a God whose morality is based on that of a handful of generations thousands of years ago? Is God really THAT limited? It's just unreal. I think there has to be something missing from the mechanics of the brain to not see beyond this.

[Dhampir]

I think what she was saying is that when you're in it, you tend to believe, even in spite of nagging doubts, that what you believe is based on some logic. No one wants to think they're just too stupid to see it another way.

[Guest ukchris]

If Christians of today have trouble defining how their bible is relevant today, then quite clearly the God they believe in was not as insightful as you'd expect for the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE!!!

 

I feel like banging my head against a wall. I may as well!

 

I trust I'm not alone here in feeling so frustrated about all of this.

[The Sage Nabooru]

The sage, the bible is the most ridiculous source of fact I can imagine. It doesn't even agree with itself. How on earth can a perfect God make mistakes? That's a complete contradiction.

 

Not only that but the bible is barely even relevant anymore. It was a primitive handbook. Christians conveniently forget parts that don't fit with their morality. How can you believe in a God whose morality is based on that of a handful of generations thousands of years ago? Is God really THAT limited? It's just unreal. I think there has to be something missing from the mechanics of the brain to not see beyond this.

 

I don't believe in the Bible-God, myself.

 

But lots of other people do. I don't understand why, I don't understand how they can, but if they suffer problems from their own beliefs, that is their problem, not mine. It's not my job to pick them apart.

 

The fact of the matter is that many, many people are fully capable of going through life as Christians and enjoying it. We may accuse them of ignoring this verse or cherry-picking this passage, but really, does it ultimately matter? If we win the battle are we really winning a war? If a person is happy the way they are, and allows others to be happy the way they are, then I see no reason to start a fight.

 

If your boyfriend is uncomfortable with you being an atheist, then you should leave him - if he hasn't already left you, as has been stated several times already. If you are uncomfortable with him being a Christian, then you have no right to place the blame on him, especially since it seems it did not become an issue until you made it one.

[Guest ukchris]

I think what she was saying is that when you're in it, you tend to believe, even in spite of nagging doubts, that what you believe is based on some logic. No one wants to think they're just too stupid to see it another way.

 

But there shouldn't only be nagging doubts, there should be GAPING HOLES in the validity of the whole thing. And people want to base their life around such tosh?

 

If doubts exist I say explore them!!!!! Let me just review the whole thing:

 

They believe that Adam was convinced by a talking snake to eat a forbidden apple, then a flood destroying all of humanity - bar two people. God's son (who is the same person as God - still with me?), comes to Earth and needs to be killed by sinners in order to save them.

 

Anybody who rejects this proves they have a functioning level of rationality in between their ears!!!