Ouroboros Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Consider this: Many Christians claim that Hell is not a place of real torture, but really just a place where the "sinners" are separated from god. Now, reading one post today, I realized as a "sinner" right now, without Jesus "in my heart" I am already separated from god. So what would be different in Hell compared to now? Doesn't it mean that I'm already in Hell since I'm without god right now, and Hell would be just the same thing? And to tell you the truth, I'm not suffering and I don't mind this separation one bit in this life, so this fictious Hell won't be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Consider this: Many Christians claim that Hell is not a place of real torture, but really just a place where the "sinners" are separated from god. Now, reading one post today, I realized as a "sinner" right now, without Jesus "in my heart" I am already separated from god. So what would be different in Hell compared to now? Doesn't it mean that I'm already in Hell since I'm without god right now, and Hell would be just the same thing? And to tell you the truth, I'm not suffering and I don't mind this separation one bit in this life, so this fictious Hell won't be an issue. Typical Christian Response :Well your not totally separated from him now because god is everywhere. Well except when your in hell then god is not there You: that's a contradiction Typical Xtian: No, wait, ummmm.....We can't comphrend how god works! You: So why even think about him? Typical Xtian: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Consider this: Many Christians claim that Hell is not a place of real torture, but really just a place where the "sinners" are separated from god. Now, reading one post today, I realized as a "sinner" right now, without Jesus "in my heart" I am already separated from god. So what would be different in Hell compared to now? Doesn't it mean that I'm already in Hell since I'm without god right now, and Hell would be just the same thing? And to tell you the truth, I'm not suffering and I don't mind this separation one bit in this life, so this fictious Hell won't be an issue. Typical Christian Response :Well your not totally separated from him now because god is everywhere. Well except when your in hell then god is not there You: that's a contradiction Typical Xtian: No, wait, ummmm.....We can't comphrend how god works! You: So why even think about him? Typical Xtian: mat 5:22 "But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." hate to be the bearer of bad news you fool. but you will burn in the everlasting, eternal pits of hell! its funny in searching the NT for the word hell, it comes up mostly in mathew, which by the way is a jewish author that would have really been brought up fearing hell. wonder if he added that for dramaticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 And I don't think it's really the word "Hell" in Mathew either. Isn't it "Gehenna" the fire pit outside Jerusalem they referenced? Oh, and a second thought here. If this universe is the only kind of universe fit for life (The Fine-tuning argument for god's existence), then what kind of universe is Hell and Heaven in? Wouldn't it have to be the exact same physical laws and design, since this universe is the only way it can be (according to apologists)? And that would also mean that our body would burn up in the flames in less then a minute, and life would be substained by biological functions, so we would die in Hell; I guess that's a third death... No eternal torture possible with only one possible universe design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 And I don't think it's really the word "Hell" in Mathew either. Isn't it "Gehenna" the fire pit outside Jerusalem they referenced? Oh, and a second thought here. If this universe is the only kind of universe fit for life (The Fine-tuning argument for god's existence), then what kind of universe is Hell and Heaven in? Wouldn't it have to be the exact same physical laws and design, since this universe is the only way it can be (according to apologists)? And that would also mean that our body would burn up in the flames in less then a minute, and life would be substained by biological functions, so we would die in Hell; I guess that's a third death... No eternal torture possible with only one possible universe design. i have read before, God's universe is compared to a 3d world and ours is a 2d world. our perception is limited to God's perception. so he lives in a universe other than ours but has the power to create universes and interact with them and then go back to his own and talk to Zues or something to that extent. so i guess in short you go to the 3d world be it heaven or hell where the physicall restraint are not applicable. i feel sure he uses Gehenna, but i can't confirm that right now. i would have to look it up at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Foxx Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Consider this: Many Christians claim that Hell is not a place of real torture, but really just a place where the "sinners" are separated from god. Now, reading one post today, I realized as a "sinner" right now, without Jesus "in my heart" I am already separated from god. So what would be different in Hell compared to now? Doesn't it mean that I'm already in Hell since I'm without god right now, and Hell would be just the same thing? And to tell you the truth, I'm not suffering and I don't mind this separation one bit in this life, so this fictious Hell won't be an issue. What an excellent point! I have never thought about the subject of hell in this way. Awesome! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 i have read before, God's universe is compared to a 3d world and ours is a 2d world. our perception is limited to God's perception. so he lives in a universe other than ours but has the power to create universes and interact with them and then go back to his own and talk to Zues or something to that extent. so i guess in short you go to the 3d world be it heaven or hell where the physicall restraint are not applicable. Well with new scientific ideas we probably have to expand the numbers a bit. The theory is that our world is 9 or 11 dimensions, so I guess god would have to be in the 10 or 12 dimension... but who is in the 13th? So, in essence you're saying that (according to the religion) Heaven and Hell are not physical places but only spiritual. Like a dream like state of mind. Like being in coma and dreaming about nothings. On the other hand, if no physical constraints, but only spiritual, then what is "fire" in a spiritual world? It can't be something that's burning with flames. i feel sure he uses Gehenna, but i can't confirm that right now. i would have to look it up at home. Yeah, I'm not sure. I could look it up, but too lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 What an excellent point! I have never thought about the subject of hell in this way. Awesome! Thank you. I was indeed a bit of a revelation to me too. I guess the Holy Sprite works in mysterious ways after all. Revealing truths about No-weh (= No-Jahweh) all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 i have read before, God's universe is compared to a 3d world and ours is a 2d world. our perception is limited to God's perception. so he lives in a universe other than ours but has the power to create universes and interact with them and then go back to his own and talk to Zues or something to that extent. so i guess in short you go to the 3d world be it heaven or hell where the physicall restraint are not applicable. Well with new scientific ideas we probably have to expand the numbers a bit. The theory is that our world is 9 or 11 dimensions, so I guess god would have to be in the 10 or 12 dimension... but who is in the 13th? So, in essence you're saying that (according to the religion) Heaven and Hell are not physical places but only spiritual. Like a dream like state of mind. Like being in coma and dreaming about nothings. On the other hand, if no physical constraints, but only spiritual, then what is "fire" in a spiritual world? It can't be something that's burning with flames. i feel sure he uses Gehenna, but i can't confirm that right now. i would have to look it up at home.Yeah, I'm not sure. I could look it up, but too lazy. i think you have to look at it abstractly. if you go to heaven and sit with God, he is not of a physical form. the bible never gives physical characteristics of him. so i would think that if you are hanging out with him you would take on his characterists being in his universe. as far as the flames in hell thing. that shows the flaw in the writers thought process or what he believed at that time most likely. although, i bet spirit flames are really hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 Well, wouldn't a spiritual world be an existence of some kind? Or is a spiritual world a non-energy, non-entity, non-contingent, non-uniform, non-organized? What kind of world is this spiritual world, that is not existing but yet existing? A world that doesn't have laws or physical rules, but still works? To me it sounds like a Disney fairytale or a dream and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Consider this: Many Christians claim that Hell is not a place of real torture, but really just a place where the "sinners" are separated from god. Now, reading one post today, I realized as a "sinner" right now, without Jesus "in my heart" I am already separated from god. So what would be different in Hell compared to now? Doesn't it mean that I'm already in Hell since I'm without god right now, and Hell would be just the same thing? And to tell you the truth, I'm not suffering and I don't mind this separation one bit in this life, so this fictious Hell won't be an issue. Here comes the party-pooper. Heaven and hell are just states of consciuosness. If your not suffering then your in heaven. I don't care what the fundamentalists say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Heaven and hell are just states of consciuosness. Your ass is a state of consciousness... No. Seriously now. Take a look at this thread that Dave posted the other day. What the hell is Hell? You better have laughed at my initial comment, NBBTB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Heaven and hell are just states of consciuosness. Your ass is a state of consciousness... No. Seriously now. Take a look at this thread that Dave posted the other day. What the hell is Hell? You better have laughed at my initial comment, NBBTB. Fwee is joking with me again! I thought I lost you buddy. And my ass is big no matter what I think about it! I'll take a look at Dave's thread... Yeah...he posted another topic one time that sent me on a search for the meaning of hell. here I think it still could apply. If hell is a place that is hidden or concealed, then a certain aspect or your consciousness is concealed from yourself. That's just no fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 And my ass is big no matter what I think about it! I said your ass is a state of consciousness. Not, your ass is as big as a state. I didn't say anything about that... Your ass, I mean... The size of it... You know... Yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 And my ass is big no matter what I think about it! I said your ass is a state of consciousness. Not, your ass is as big as a state. I didn't say anything about that... Your ass, I mean... The size of it... You know... Yeah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Here comes the party-pooper. Heaven and hell are just states of consciuosness. If your not suffering then your in heaven. I don't care what the fundamentalists say... NBBTB, I don't want to kill the party of laughing at the distortion of what literalists have come to really believe. Yet, think about it as metaphors for one moment please. How did the land erupt out of the ocean? Lava? If one didn't know the word lava, might it be called the 'lake of fire'? We could be standing on it! If one doesn't have solid foundations on which to stand, could that be called the bottomless pit? I agree, the war between heaven and hell are just states of mind. The one that wins is the side you feed the most. We were made of the dust, selfish carnal nature, and God blew his spirit into us, one of respecting all things and being one with all things, and the serpent is to eat the dust all the days of his life. Natural repercussions of our actions are NOT to end us, but to end our selfish carmal ways. A metaphor in Rev. is that we are incense on the golden altar, burning off our selfish fleshy ways till we are left in pure spirit form, smoke... a sweet smell to God. Nothing bad or separating us from the oneness of God, but returning us ALL to that oneness! Flesh is providing the illusion we are separate. Of course, I do like the idea that we can all here plan to meet in 'hell' with Ghandi and all the kuel people, while the judgemental people in their self righteous ways end in heaven. Wow... I wonder how that would impact the true meaning of heaven and hell? I just thought of something. I hope the finding of the tomb of Jesus is NOT triggering people here, that were devout fundamentalist, into thinking maybe what they use to believe is true! I haven't seen much action around here lately, and it has been hard to access this site too. NBBTB, youve been here longer than I... people here wouldn't let the discovery of the tomb cause them to question their break into freedom from fundamentalism, would it? Nah... no way, right? People here are more like what the bible teaches IMO more than any other group I've known! I've seen no better group than my true 'christlike' friends here. Labels mean nothing, the heart says it all. I've said this from the very beginning of my stay here. Whadaya' think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Here comes the party-pooper. Heaven and hell are just states of consciuosness. If your not suffering then your in heaven. I don't care what the fundamentalists say... NBBTB, I don't want to kill the party of laughing at the distortion of what literalists have come to really believe. Yet, think about it as metaphors for one moment please. How did the land erupt out of the ocean? Lava? If one didn't know the word lava, might it be called the 'lake of fire'? We could be standing on it! If one doesn't have solid foundations on which to stand, could that be called the bottomless pit? I agree, the war between heaven and hell are just states of mind. The one that wins is the side you feed the most. Amanda, I hope you didn't think that I was saying they weren't metaphors. I agree with you. I just thought of something. I hope the finding of the tomb of Jesus is NOT triggering people here, that were devout fundamentalist, into thinking maybe what they use to believe is true! I haven't seen much action around here lately, and it has been hard to access this site too. NBBTB, youve been here longer than I... people here wouldn't let the discovery of the tomb cause them to question their break into freedom from fundamentalism, would it? Nah... no way, right? I don't really know, but I don't think so unless they really weren't convinced anyway. There are many here, I believe, that it wouldn't matter if Jesus was real or not because him being a man doesn't mean he was God (in the fundamental understanding). People here are more like what the bible teaches IMO more than any other group I've known! I've seen no better group than my true 'christlike' friends here. Labels mean nothing, the heart says it all. I've said this from the very beginning of my stay here. Whadaya' think? I'd agree completely. I have said it myself too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Many Christians claim that Hell is not a place of real torture, but really just a place where the "sinners" are separated from god. (I've argued this before, I think with Amanda a board ago.) Hey, another poster here noted that since this God is omnipotent, does this mean he is in Hell with all the sinners? If so, how is that not like being with God and therefore in Heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 Quick, I agree to your point there, and when you bring it up to a Christian, you never get an explanation that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Many Christians claim that Hell is not a place of real torture, but really just a place where the "sinners" are separated from god. (I've argued this before, I think with Amanda a board ago.) Hey, another poster here noted that since this God is omnipotent, does this mean he is in Hell with all the sinners? If so, how is that not like being with God and therefore in Heaven? Of cource god is in Hell... how else can he get to enjoy our suffering and wailing and begging for all eternity... A pox on the Romans and all their dogma... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Typical Christian Response :Well your not totally separated from him now because god is everywhere. Well except when your in hell then god is not thereYou: that's a contradiction Typical Xtian: No, wait, ummmm.....We can't comphrend how god works! You: So why even think about him? Typical Xtian: Too funny! Because it's so true! Very good points Han. I bet a Christian response would be that we're not really seperated from god, because it any time we can pray to Cheezus ask him to come into our hearts. Once we're in hell Cheezus will say he never knew us. Come to think of it, isn't Cheese-us the one who tosses us into hell or does dad do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Come to think of it, isn't Cheese-us the one who tosses us into hell or does dad do that? Technically it's both. They're 3-in-one, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 So what do you get if Jesus go to Hell? Fried Cheese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Technically it's both. They're 3-in-one, remember? True, I forgot Cheese-us/Jehoover/Holy Smurf works in mysterious ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 So what do you get if Jesus go to Hell? Fried Cheese? Cheezus Loves You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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