Gah...why *must* We All Be "social"?

[Amethyst]

Last night, I was having dinner with my folks and a family friend. The food was very good; the conversation, not so good. They ended up talking about being social.

 

I said well, some people are just more introverted than others. We feel physically drained when we're around large groups of people for any length of time, or even small groups of people we know and like for a long period of time. We can't help it, it's just the way we are. It's a biological thing.

 

Then family friend said "Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about, my hands used to shake and I used to sweat."

 

I said, "That's social anxiety. That's not normal introversion. I'm not afraid to be around other people. I just get drained when I am. I can't help it."

 

Then I got grilled by all of them.

 

I said "Why do people have to be social? Why can't we just have a few friends and do things occassionally? Why do we have to do them all the time?"

 

They said "Oh, you don't have to do all those things."

 

And yet, they went on talking about it as if people have to be social butterflies! Talk about contradictory!

 

Seriously, WTF is up with our society that looks down on people for being introverted? WTF is wrong with being introverted? Why does society have to treat introverts as if we are some kind of mutant freaks or something? We are not all mass murderers or suicidal or psycho in any other way. Thank you, Hollywood, for perpetuating negative stereotypes, and thank you, organized religion, for brainwashing people to think that being alone is somehow evil and wrong. Gah!!!

 

 

I'm going to go look for that "Caring for your introvert" article and send it to that family friend.

[webmdave]

75% of the population is extroverted. Only 25% is introverted. Extroverts are considerably less introspective than introverts and are for the most part incapable of comprehending what it's like to be an introvert.

 

Anyway, if you want a really good book on this subject, I suggest "Party of One, The Loners' Manifesto" by Anneli Rufus.

 

Most Internet junkies, like us, are introverts.

 

Read the book, you'll love it.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Party-One-Manifesto-...TF8&s=books

[Piprus]

Of course there is nothing wrong with being introverted, and I'm sure you'll agree that there's a very positive side, e.g. we tend to be deep thinkers. I think it was rather short-sighted of your family and friend to come across as critical of the satisfaction of taking one's own solitary counsel as valuable.

 

The last thing I would want is to try and be a social butterfly. I do much better as the fly on the wall.

[Vigile]

I like being an introvert. I like considering the deeper questions. I can be social on occasion and actually do ok in this area as long as I'm not expected to make small talk, but like you Am, I need time to unwind afterward. I wouldn't trade the sense of wonder that I believe introverts enjoy for the world.

[godlessgrrl]

I've noticed too that extroverts seem to have the bad habit of thinking introverts should be like them, and that there's something wrong with anybody who isn't an extrovert. It's kind of like trying to deal with morning larks when you're a night owl. I've never yet met a morning lark who didn't assume that I was a lazy bum because I don't get up at the asscrack of dawn. It's like this huge blind spot or something.

 

I think the culture here is built on and supported by and, hence, supports the extroverted model. Extroverts are the pushy, pioneering, social types - the go-getters, the aggressive salespeople, the folks who do things where you can actually tell they're doing stuff. Fits right in with the puritan work ethic, which is valued here over all others. Introverts might be the thinkers and creative types (more generally speaking), but despite Americans supposedly valuing independence and individualism, I don't think that translates to "solitary" or "loner" that much.

 

It's really irritating, though. I have a huge problem with extroverts and morning larks, not because they do things differently from me (I'm a major introvert here too - INFP on the Meyers-Briggs), but because they and the rest of my culture seem to think that extroversion is The Right Way To Do Things™ and that I should be just like everybody else that way and that my way of doing things has no value because it doesn't fit the "standard" or "normal" way of functioning. Kind of like I'm perfectly willing to accept them for who they are and realize what their style of being might have to offer, but they're not willing to extend the same courtesy to me. (Assholes.)

 

But then, whenever I get crap about how I should conform to extroversion, my immediate response is to interrogate the extrovert about how come *they* don't conform to *my* way of being. Then they either understand, or shut the hell up.

 

Sometimes I also point out that it's introverted night owls that have helped make this into a 24-hour world. And that it's introverts who do all the thinking and creative work that makes extroverts' lives easier and more beautiful.

 

All of this is generalizing more than I usually would though. But that's what you get from a night owl who was up at 5:00 this morning...

[Kurari]

I'm INTJ on the Meyers-Briggs. Which means I'm very self-confident in social situations and can pretend to be the social butterfly when necessary, but I'm still an introvert and I really need my alone time every day in order to think, and quite a lot of it. Once I have my space, I can see situations clearly and come up with working solutions that benefit everyone else. I get exhausted fast if I have to be the social butterfly all the time. Even in my own house, whenever I come out of my room, one of my housemate's usual greeting is "It lives!"

 

Extroverts often think introverts "lose out" on life by being homebodies and enjoying their alone time. We don't network in business as often as they do, we don't have as wide a net of aquaintances to fall back on, and we don't get to see as many things as they do. The contrast is that we tend to work at the contacts, friends, and experiances we DO have, and make them all the more solid, richer, and fufilling. So it all works out in the end.

[white_raven23]

A while ago, I googled "non social jobs" because I thought perhaps I'd find an overlooked job field where I could just do my fucking work uninterrupted by the social needs of my co-workers (some of whom are so stupid, I want to kill them every time their lips start moving).

 

Know what I found? TONS of websites dealing with the subject of FIXING non social people!

 

I'm not a fucking headcase! I don't think any of the other INTJs on this site alone are really headcases either! I don't want to deal with people that natural selection (which most of the structure of civilization protects the public from) would have ensured I never would have had to deal with at work as these people never would have survived their teens.

 

But somehow.....*I'M* the problem!

[♦ nivek ♦]

Social enuff when social is *needed*.

 

However at haciendaFatman after say 2000hrs/8pm things tend to get quiet.

 

I prefer to work alone, or part of a small close knit group of trusted people compared to larger groups of assklowns milling arund looking for riot to attened or cause.

 

Don't care if I "get credit" for things, as long as shit works and goes down according to most of the Plan, or some sembalance of success after the riot happened....

 

Can sell cars and refridgerators to eskimos, can sell coal to miners, can be as pushy and a PIA when called for.

The Big However is that I try to respect others space and privacy.

Don't go about crowding and invading.

 

Very private and tend to be introverted, self sustaining, not needing others to satisfy my needs for *social* things.

 

My problem is that I would that everyone would mind their own fuckin' business and stay out of mine.

I sure will stay out of where I've not been invited or called to intervene.

 

For most part ExC is pretty well my on.line social life, told more of my stories and shared the interesting tidbits of shit here to those who care to read.

 

My on.line friends here are those I cherish and enjoy the company of. Many of the other sites I participate on are technical or political. With those folks it is discussion that won't delve into the things talked about here.

 

Yeah, tend to be more of an introvert, but can fake a good extrovert quite well..

 

kFL

[Light_of_Reason]

I'm an INTP myself, though at previous testings, I have been an INFP. I have the capacity to function in social settings, but I absolutely detest them, especially the larger ones, such as some of our quarterly meetings where all the managers get together.

 

I prefer to work alone, on projects of my own choosing and design, then present ideas or products to others after I have reached what I consider a reasonable base point, where all that is really left is tweaking and the like. Unfortunately, almost none of my co-workers, nor my new boss seems to understand this, and they take my being aloof and alone as a sign that either something is wrong with me or that I am failing to do work. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that I actually go out of my way to avoid taking breaks in common areas where I know socializing has a greater probability of occuring.

 

On the unfortunate end, I work in a service industry where I am required to spend some amount of time with the public. To top it off, my department is short staffed at the moment, forcing me to be amongst the public all the more.

 

On the fortunate end, I'm a librarian, and to some degree, the public actually expects us to be a bit aloof, alone, and introverted, so when I am short but polite with them, they rarely seem to notice.

 

Having said all that, the only truly bad thing about being an introvert is that most of the rest of the world either does not understand what it is to be introverted, nor do they have any care to learn what it is like, and they almost inevitably think something is wrong with me that must be fixed by them.

[Amethyst]

I'm INTJ. Very much on the "I". WR, I'd suggest doing something techie or at least in the field of writing. I've had the most luck in computer-oriented jobs.

 

I can be social around people I know and trust, but it takes a long time for me to trust people because I've been hurt a lot in the past.

 

I am glad that in my current job, my boss is an introvert and knows what that is like.

[Kelli]

I'm very much an introvert. I work very well independently with no supervision, and I despise it when people try to force me to be social.

 

My favorite part of my job is working on transmitters. I've spent lots of quality time on mountaintops. Just me, the mountain, a 10 kW transmitter, and a 200 foot tower. Love those days. Fortunately for me, I'm also the primary transmitter guy in a market with six transmitter sites. Only one really remote site, the rest are urban or suburban, but still nice and quiet and all alone. Well, maybe not really quiet, as the transmitters and associated cooling gear tend to be noisy, but quiet as in no humans to fuck up my moments of solitude.

[sparkyone]

This sounds alot like me in the introverted sense. I don't mind being around people I know and like, but it does wear thin pretty quickly and I need to be alone to recharge. I even need a break from my kids, which used to make me feel like a "bad" mother. I can socialize when needed pretty well now that I'm not worried about making a convert or witnessing to those I meet. My husband doesn't like being in gatherings very much either (except church services, but that's more like family to him), so that works well for me. I'm working in a discount store now part-time (my first real job outside the home since I've been married) and it's mostly in the back in receiving and the office. I'm going to train as a cashier also, since it's a pretty small store and most of the associates also need to sub as cashier from time to time. When I'm on the sales floor I actually try to avoid coming across customers, since the policy is to greet them if at a certain distance. I just can't seem to overcome my reluctance to speak up to strangers. I would usually rather walk by without a comment if I pass someone I don't know. Hopefully I'll mostly be in the stock room. That's been pretty interesting in a low-key way.

 

sparkyone

[white_raven23]

I'm INTJ. Very much on the "I". WR, I'd suggest doing something techie or at least in the field of writing. I've had the most luck in computer-oriented jobs.

 

I can be social around people I know and trust, but it takes a long time for me to trust people because I've been hurt a lot in the past.

 

I am glad that in my current job, my boss is an introvert and knows what that is like.

 

 

LOL.

 

Just so happens I do Accounts Payables. And since I'm good at it....I don't get a whole lot of blinking phone calls. Plus...with the database system I use, I'm effectively mated to my computer screen.

 

It's taken time, but I've trained my boss well.

 

My largest pet peeve is chatty co-workers. The one who works at the desk behind me is the first one I think of when I talk of people I would not otherwise have ever had to deal with as natural selection would have conviniently removed them by now.

 

She does the job I used to do...so she asks me the same questions over and over. What is wrong with that? She's been doing my former job for two years now! Maybe it's just me, but I think I should legally be allowed to kill her for this behavior.

[Kurari]

I do mostly admin. asst. type jobs. They are typically pretty low key as far as interacting with people. I'm a wind up toy...you tell me what you need done and I do it. I'm miserable in customer support or troubleshooting over the phone type jobs, so I'm very happy with my new job. I just interact with my cubical mates, put the data in the database, and file the paperwork, and I never have to pick up the phone or see a customer at all! Much glee and happiness for this introvert!

[LordofGondor]

I'd consider myself an introverted person; I like being alone, I can work better on my own, and there are only a select few people that I really enjoy talking to.

 

Aside from my natural...introvertedness(?)-crowds make me a bit uneasy and my 'conversational skills' are lacking.

 

But it used to be much worse than that. I used to have a pretty bad case of sociophobia and was prone to anxiety attacks around large groups of people. Eventually I managed to gain control over it, although I developed a few strange mannerisms in the process. But even with all the progress that I've made, I'm still a pretty quiet person.

 

I guess I'm in the same plight as TC; I don't mind being introverted, but I find it annoying when people think that they can just crack you open with enough time and patience

[Astreja]

Once in a while (okay, once a year at Yule) I can throw a mean party. The other 364 days of the year I'm perfectly happy at my desk in a tiny alcove of my study, or puttering around in the basement.

 

Can work with others if I have to; but I prefer to do my own thing in parallel with others doing their own thing. I hated, hated, frigging hated group projects in college. Team sports? I'll watch 'em but please don't ask me to join the team.

 

My tolerance for big crowds in general has gone down a lot since I was in my teens, too. I used to go to all the big arena rock shows; last time I did that, about two years ago, the vibe was too intense and I left halfway through the show.

[chefranden]

I'm married to another introvert. We can sit for hours and not say a thing. It's great. I can't imagine being married to a woman that has to check in every two minutes like my buddy's wife. They have cell phones for this purpose. I swear she makes more calls in 1/2 day than I make in 1/2 a year.

[pitchu]

I wonder if the terms "introvert" and "extrovert" are misleading. They conjure images of either being withdrawn and dreary or involved and bubbly, but I think there's much more to the difference between the two personality types. There seems to be a social judgment built into the very words.

 

Now, if the terms were, instead, "meaningfully interactive" and "superficially interactive" the judgment factor might well work to the benefit of us alleged "introverts".

 

[Unknowing1]

I'm not sure it's the terms that are so misleading as it is the mind set of the extraverts who think anyone who prefers to live their life differently then them must have a very dull life indeed.

 

Frankly I'd prefer an introvert as a friend or co-worker. I've just found that I can trust an introvert to give me correct and accurate information as well as keeping my confidence.

[Jubilant]

Amethyst, I am soooo with you on this because it is a huge issue FOR OTHER people in our life on a daily freakin' basis...

 

I just cannot tell you that extroverts are the group that raises the absolute biggest stink regarding home education. They don't ask, "What about your credentials?" or "What about the high school years" or anything regarding the education, their biggest concern is "What about the *socialization*?" AARGH! I've grown so thick skinned over that question that my blanket reply is "Socialization is passing down standards of society and I feel that my spouse and I are best qualified to do that, not their peers. As for socializing? They meet with their friends regularly and when we meet new people whether or adults or children they *socialize* by conversing and/or playing just like other kids. Is there any other question or concern you have about home schooling...." there usually isn't one.

 

People cannot seem to understand that people can and do live happy and fulfilling lives outside of what others THINK it takes for everyone to be happy and fulfilled. Besides, it isn't as though *happy and fulfilled* are the default position for extroverts, one only need to look inside the prison walls...there are a ton of extroverts in there.

[riverbank]

I'm an introvert also, I guess in terms of relating to people you just need to show your good qualities to others and they may kind of understand you a bit better.

 

I've recently moved into a house with 4 other guys, and 3 of them are definitely what I would call 'loud'. So with me being quiet it's a kind of learning experience of how to get on with people that are different. Good guys though.

 

My conflict is that I enjoy my own company and don't always wanna mix with others, but on the other hand I like having friends. There has to be some sort of happy medium somewhere.

[Japedo]

Well, as an outcast to this thread (the evil extrovert ) I apologize for personality types that both annoy and misunderstand you guys.

 

My husband and one of my kids is an introvert, I invite them once to things,(Okay maybe a few are you sures?) if they want to pass, they pass. I miss their company but realize they prefer not to be social. Why force someone to something they don't want to do? I don't have the view that they are leading boring lives at all, they are happy being alone doing what they want to do.

 

I don't find myself calling chronically to check in, which would defeat the purpose of A) Me going out, B ) giving my husband quiet time. Although Chef, I don't think I could sit in a room in total silence either. It would take something like a coma to assist in that happening. I think I'm opposite of some here, I hate the quiet and probably feel the need to fill quiet voids.

 

I feel more comfortable around people then I do alone, that's not to say that I always want to be around people. I don't. I have been a loyal friend and I've kept secrets. Some of the comments here that are being attributed to extroverts I think are character flaws that could be found in introverts as well.

[Former Follier]

Ho-lee Shee-it, people! I couldn't be happier to have found this topic this morning. . . everyone at work is driving me nuts (with the exception of my boss. . . another introvert). One co-worker is seeking sympathy for a father who had a stroke over the weekend, one of the managers in a closely-related department got canned last Friday prompting much inter-departmental gossip, there's baby talk in the air by two pregnant women and I'm getting alot of FLAK for doing my job. . . let me tell you:

 

I work in the telecommunications industry and every week I send a error spreadsheet out to all sales people and customer service reps telling them how and what they fucked up the week prior. Needless to say, Monday's are my least favorite day because my phone rings incessantly with these idiots wanting to know what exactly they fucked up. I feel like screaming "Everything!" into the phones at them and then slamming the receiver down. . . but I value my job and enjoy it for the most part. I stare at a computer screen, have very little supervision (hence my ability to post on here all day long), and am climbing the corporate ladder. The only reason I care about the last thing I mentioned is because I have three mouths to feed at home. I don't know of anywhere else around here that I could work where I could spend all day on the internet and listen to Bad Religion all day long.

 

Great to see you all, this morning!

[KenneyVTX]

I'm one of those dreaded loud people, I am an ENTJ. Which causes no end of consternation for my very introverted partner. However, we have learned how to work with one another. I find I have 2 circles of friends, group 1 is the extroverts that I go out and be active with and group 2 are the introverts that I tend to have long conversations with. I've learned that I can work with both sides of the coin, even if I just don't comprehend how someone can spend that much time in front of a computer or PS2.

This is not to say extroverts are not capable of long conversation or meaningful debate, it's just that we approach things differently. My partner and I exhibit this very well, my view tends to be: identify then act. While his view is, identify, plan, consider, reconsider, debate, plan, act. I still don't get it, but I love him anyway. Our children are going to be in for an intersting upbrining.

[Jubilant]

Well, as an outcast to this thread (the evil extrovert ) I apologize for personality types that both annoy and misunderstand you guys.

 

LOL, hey, your an ex-christian and therefore it is impossible for you to be an outcast. Besides, you don't need to apologize. I'd like to apologize to you though for making a *blanket statement* about extroverts and especially after talking to my dh this morning. We are probably more middle of the roaders.

 

My husband and one of my kids is an introvert, I invite them once to things,(Okay maybe a few are you sures?) if they want to pass, they pass. I miss their company but realize they prefer not to be social. Why force someone to something they don't want to do? I don't have the view that they are leading boring lives at all, they are happy being alone doing what they want to do.

That is probably why you are more understanding then, because you have the differences within your own family. To be honest, there are probably more understanding people like you than not...just happens that I seem to run into the nosey naysayers moreso than those like you!

 

I feel more comfortable around people then I do alone, that's not to say that I always want to be around people. I don't. I have been a loyal friend and I've kept secrets. Some of the comments here that are being attributed to extroverts I think are character flaws that could be found in introverts as well.

 

You're right. And I want to apologize again, sometimes I say things in frustration, not because it happens *all the time*, it only FEELS like it is *all the time*