Questions for Christian members of ExC

[Celsus]

This thread is started because many of us that are ExChristians are curious about the Christian members. I respectfully ask other ExChristians to not post on this thread, but allow the Christians to respond. For the time being, I am asking you to let myself and Reach post questions. (Is that ok, Reach?) We will open it up for others after the initial responses.

 

Christian ExC members:

 

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

That's enough for a start.

 

Bruce

[Totallyatpeace]

You may post the PM I just sent to you.

 

Hi, Bruce.

 

I am assuming you were not really wanting me to answer the questions you left for me but more that they were rhetorical in nature. I have answered your question as to why I am here many times over the past nine months. I don't want to be a problem on this forum because I do understand it's purpose. Obviously, my questions made some uncomfortable.

 

I understand the serious nature of this forum but it also has an outstanding group of people that are filled with wisdom. Don't mistake the fact that I did not deconvert to mean that there was not something here that I really needed. I am well aware of how Christians speak of Atheist, and especially those who once claimed to be Christians. My reason for being here was to refute some of that.

 

I don't believe I have ever seen a thread with a list of faith backgrounds here and what exactly their faith taught regarding salvation as long as I've been here. The Christians I have surrounded myself with would claim that all of you were in bad churches, wrong doctrines, never understood the scriptures and on and on. I can clearly see by the responses in the thread, that is far from the truth. Almost all were as deeply committed as the minister down the street. So if you think the questions were harmful, think again. The thread will leave the Christian wondering how in the world can this be? And to the weak Christian, it will plant seeds of doubt. (scary thought for me since I started the thread)

 

So forgive me, if you felt that my motive was anything but seeking an honest answer.

 

I would have posted this but felt that it was better said here.

 

Tap

 

Question #2- No.

[Reach]

I am well aware of how Christians speak of Atheist, and especially those who once claimed to be Christians. My reason for being here was to refute some of that.

Tap, will you restate the first sentence please? It's unclear what you are saying.

[Jay]

Hey Bruce,

 

These are two excellent questions. Let me preface my answers by saying that I have not participated much lately, simply because message boards are a pretty low priority when I allocate my time. I have been extremely busy with several things, including a recent campaign for mayor of my city. Anyhow, on to your questions:

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

Well, I have found in my life that it is better to associate with people who do not agree with me than to associate with those I do agree with.

 

You do not learn from those who hold to your beliefs, so my primary reason for being here is to learn from those who disagree with me.

 

Second is to demonstrate that my particular brand of Christianity is not the fundamentalist evangelical version, but a more rational approach, and I have seen that most people here do not despise what I believe, rather, many seem to find it a curiosity.

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

If I had been through some of the shit that some of you have been through, I likely would left the faith as well. I think most of the stories I have read here are more than adequate justification for leaving. I do believe that most are mistaken about certain things. But I also know that none of us operate in a logic-based vacuum devoid of emotion. I am likely wrong about a bunch of things as well. So, in a way, we are all in the sae boat.

[Guest mindofyih]

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

I actually just joined exchristian.net yesterday after doing some website surfing, and I joined for a few reasons. First, I love the fact that forums like these are encouraged for christians to join as well. Too many times, we are stuck in groups where it's all haters of christianity and lovers of christianity, and there isn't much dialogue in between. Second, we are all finding the same goal to reach the truth. If one day, I see that Christ is not my Treasure of life, I will leave it in a second. We are all in a neverending search for truth, for most of us at least. Third, I was overcome with a strong feeling of guilt and sighs because I have seen what the Christian religion has done to people. It is sad, and the religious leaders of today are honestly not doing their job. In fact, if you look at all the fire and brimstone stuff that is going on in the Bible, a significant part of it was directed towards religious leaders, not non-Christians. Finally and most importantly, I joined because I am an ex-Christian as well. Allow me to explain. I hate the Christian religion. I hate the level of fear they impose onto people to make them practice the religion. I hate the traditions and empty words of "worship" that take place there. It isn't real and it isn't relevant. I only call myself a Christian for logistical purposes. Religion is for people who are afraid of hell. This relatoinship with Jesus is for someone who has experienced hell. And I have experienced hell, and Jesus saving me from the roads of destruction I was headed into leaves me dumbfounded, and at the end of the day, what else can I do but worship? I believe the leaders of today have dumbed down God's endless pursuit for my life and my love that he wound up on a cross to a simple, stupid religion, where fear and hatred have overriden the words of love and grace from Jesus. They have dumbed down my incredible adventure with God, and the barbarian tradition to live a life that fights hate with love, injustice with grace, and swords with words, and they've dumbed that down to a health-and-wealth gospel, to a story of fear, to a story of where we learn a lot about God, but at the end of the day, we don't know God. I hope that makes some kind of sense.

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

Hmmm. I'm not sure how to interpret the question. But i do not think that I am any better than "exchristians." I do not have any self-righteous attitude towards any of you, or any hatred, or disappointment. In fact, all of those feelings have come up, but only directed towards other Christians, who have left you guys hurt like this. I think many of you have asked questions that many "Sunday-morning attending Christians" will never ask because of their cowardice. Like I said, we are all truthseekers, and you guys have already awoken to the truth that Jesus did not come here for us to have a neat religion. He called for a revolution! I also feel that many times Christians want to move people horizontally, from Buddhism to Christianity, from Islam to christianity, and so on. But ultimately, they are all on the same plane. I hope that you guys would join me vertically in my pursuit for truth and life and hope and love.

 

Even though both answers were relatively long, they are also at the same time too short for me to explain everything that is going on in my mind. I am actually leaving Sunday morning to go serve the poor for a mission trip in inner-city Tampa, so I will be MIA for six weeks. However, if you see me online, you guys can IM me @ Mindofyih. I really want to start more dialogue with all of you. I actually even sent the website to many people who are in the same position as me, and hopefully, they'll join the group as well.

 

Yih...

[Amanda]

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

(1) I got here by accident, stayed out of curiosity, and really enjoy the wonderful arena I've found here. And I didn't know that ALL ExChristians despise what "I" believe in... I didn't even know you all knew what all my beliefs are!!! How did you all do that?

 

(2) There you go again... so you think you know what "faith" I hold! If you know that, I'd love to learn just how you could possibly know.

[diggin]

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

1. I love what I read here. Jesus said, "Because iniquity will abound, the love of many will wax cold." I think he was talking about iniquity in the church. Your ex-Xtian professions seem to be mostly a rejection of what you now see to be a human, flawed, presumptuous, arrogant, institution. It is logical to give up on such a mess of an organization. And those who lost their love of Jesus and God ... well, that's understandable, too. Jesus described the church as a field in which the enemies sowed "tares" -- imitation wheat. Most of the leaders of "Christian" churches, and most of the pew-sitters, are imitation wheat. And they hurt people, badly. I want to learn more about how they hurt people and why. I don't want to blame the victims of their abuse.

 

2. What I believe is very different from mainstream evangelical Christianity. In fact, I am constantly arguing with those who are willing to talk to me... trying to convince them that the Bible does not support their traditions. So my beliefs are not what you guys in general despise.

1. I believe that Christianity is a calling for a few, not a "turn or burn" "fire insurance" for the masses.
    
    
    
   
2. I do not believe in eternal hell, but that all people who have ever lived will be brought back to life here on earth. I believe that true Christians who have been truly loving the way the Bible describes virtue, will be the government of that "new world" -- and that means they'll be kind and merciful to all the people that will need healing and helping.
    
    
    
   
3. I do not believe the Bible teaches what theologians call the Trinity. No God-man stuff. I believe the Bible is clear that Jesus was the Son of God, or else he was a fool and an imposter. And if you happen to think he was a fool and an imposter, and even blaspheme his name, Jesus says you've already been forgiven for that.
    
    
    
   
4. I believe that God loves everybody, especially Jews and Ex-Christians, and that the ONLY people who are "on trial" are the few, authentic, Christians who have intelligently become children of God. Everyone else is still in school, getting the first half of their education -- the part in which God hides himself and is hardly able to be found at all. (As you know, mainstream Christianity says that by saying a few magic prayers you can escape all judgment by God for all sins you commit... but if you don't say those prayers you are doomed to hell forever). Jesus said, "If any man hears my words, and believes not, I judge him not." Christians are being judged, non-Christians are not.
   

How much does God love everybody? Enough to state unequivocally that it is his sovereign goal to bless and redeem ALL of them. Bring them all back from the dead. Make the world a perfect place to live in.

 

I catch a lot of flack from "Christians" for believing what the Bible says about God's mercy. I doubt if you folks would mind me being lenient.

 

In fact, I believe that the explosive growth in world wealth and opportunity in the last century is a foregleam of the time when all people will be happy, free, and prosperous -- especially those who have not lived "high on the hog" during the "Christian era" which has really been the era of slavery, colonialism, imperialism, euro-centrism, environmental exploitation, etc.

 

e. I believe that some of the best people in the world are non-Christians. In fact, I hope to write a book soon called "Why Should Hell Get all the Good People?" In it, I want to have a couple of hundred 1-page biographies of people who contributed greatly to the human condition and served mankind, but never had what evangelicals like to call "saving faith". Folks like Abraham Lincoln, Mark Twain, Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, Golda Meir, etc.

 

3. In Ezekiel there is an interesting prophecy about a man in linen who is going through the City, marking the foreheads of those who sigh and cry for the abominations done in the city. I see you folks as those who sigh and cry. From time to time I hope to strike up an acquaintance with anyone who wants to understand why God permits evil, why things are so awfully bad. Let the Pollyannas say things are great, because God loves me and spared me from cancer this year. The folks who see things as they are, and can't figure out how a loving God would permit that... those are the folks my ministry is aimed at.

 

(But hopefully you can see I'm not interested in "helping" ANYONE back into the failed, broken "Christian religion" as we all know it.)

 

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

I believe that anyone who thinks "Christianity" is dangerous and abusive is not mistaken, but right on. I believe God agrees with YOU! I believe that God wants EVERYONE to leave "the faith", you are not the first or the last to do so. If there is a God, the things that happen are part of his plan, right? So what is happening? So many people have left "Christianity" in the last century that now this is called by historians "the post-Christian era". There have always been only a few true Christians, and they have always been a minority element in every church.

 

Do I agree with everything ex-Xtians say and do?

No. I think that ex-Christians should avoid licentious behavior, adultery, lying, cheating, stealing, raping, pillaging, murdering, etc. :-)

 

... but looking at "Christian" history, these exact behaviors were very common among those who claimed to have the inside track on God's love. I get so upset every time I think about the slave trade, Cortez and what he did to Montezuma, Christopher Columbus, the American slaughter of Indians, the Black Death, and recent things like Christian King Leopold II and his exploits in the Congo, or the "Christian" complicity with the Holocaust, etc. If the Bible is God's word as it claims, (and I am right about what it seems to be saying) then there will be both a temporary growth in "Christian" political power, and a major cataclysm to befall Christian institutions in the next few decades.

 

Thanks for allowing me to join the forum, though I'm not very regular, and thanks for asking for my opinion!

 

richard@whyjesusdied.com

[Guest Ramona]

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

Not ALL ex-christians despise what I believe in. Some do. I actually can find parallels in some of the beliefs we have. I found this site by chance (although I don't believe in chance). I was interested in why the people left the faith. I felt compassion and I wanted to understand. I got more than I bargained for. There are some very intense discussions that have challenged me to more critically look at what I believe. I also believe that everybody has ~something~ to offer another person and effect the lives of others positively. My life as a result of some of the discussions has been affected positively, and my hope is that I have some desirable affect, no matter how miniscule on the lives of others. Not only that, but it is way more interesting discussing with people who don't hold your same system of belief.

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

I believe everyone who leaves is justified in doing so. They have justified it in their own minds. Now that doesn't mean that I agree with their justification. But, I do understand the reasoning of many in leaving.

 

I believe some have suffered under the heavy hand of religion or those who have abused their positions or authority. Others left for intellectual reasons believing that the faith is not logical or reasonable based on information they've gained. Some others left because they wanted freedom from the "moral" standards of living, especially when it comes to the sexual aspect of life. (IMO/FWIW)

[Totallyatpeace]

I am well aware of how Christians speak of Atheist, and especially those who once claimed to be Christians. My reason for being here was to refute some of that.

Tap, will you restate the first sentence please? It's unclear what you are saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"They have Spiritual blindness and will not see the truth unless they believe first."

 

"They could have never been Christians, because a True Christian would never walk away from their faith."

 

There are many comebacks as to why one won't believe or has fallen away.

 

Is that what you were asking?

[BigToe]

1. I came here because I had several online friends that posted here and suggested I sign up. It just happens to be an exchristian site, I don't care what someone else thinks about what I believe. I don't ultimately care what others believe either. That isn't why I post here. Sure, I find it interesting to learn about other beliefs, but that isn't why I post here.

 

2. No.

 

I like how Bruce said he and Reach were gonna be the Ex-Cers to post in here and others have anyway.

[Guest grizzlyfireguy]

i'm a member here because i enjoy reading what you guys have to say about us---even those most despise what we have to say. I'm just curious mainly to see where you all are coming from---it sucks so many of you have been hurt by other people who call themselves Christians.

I'm not sure how I feel about you guys feeling the way you do--possibly because most of you have been hurt---and are absolutely justified in what you do. The issue about you guys being mistaken----well it's obvious i believe you are mistaken considering you don't believe in something I do---but that doesn't matter to me---I first came here all on fire thinking it was uncool for you guys to have this site---yadda yadda yadda---and it was wrong for me to attack you---there are some great people on here-and i enjoy reading what you have to say--even though i'm rarely on...

-Ricky

[Guest arunan]

Hey Bruce, good questions. Hope I can offer equally good answers.

 

1) I think it's ridiculous to adhere to a religion, in fact Jesus did too. He said that the law killed, but the spirit brought life. I am at ex-christian because I think the people here have it half right (which is more than I can say for most Churches). We aren't called to follow a religion, but a revolution.

 

2) Do I think other's are mistaken in leaving the faith? No. Because I think the real question is were you wrong in leaving the Church, which I don't believe you were. Like I said, religion is dead, why follow it? But I think if you had experienced what I had experienced you wouldn't be an atheist or agnostic or whatever. It's not about going to heaven or hell, it's about the fact that for the first time I can see a world that is invisible to others. I am living in a much bigger story, one worth living in, one which brings purpose to my life. There are very few in the course of history that have fully understood that and left it. Keep in mind I'm not saying that you weren't a real christian, or that if you were a real christian you wouldn't have left it, because I was a real christian and i did leave it. I'm saying if you encountered God in the way I did, there would be no way to escape it.

[Guest Ex-monkey]

"1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?"

 

1. Because I saw someone making false claims about me and I joined, since then I haven't decided to discontinue my membership because I check here every now and then and may have something "stupid" to say.

 

2. This question assumes you were "in" the faith. If you were, because of the doctrine of the perseverence of the saints, you will come back. Anyway, due to my views on covenant theology I grant that those of you who professed faith, or were born to Christian parents, were in the covenant externally. So, you were "in" in this sense.

 

I don't know what "unjustified" means? Epistemologically speaking?, of course.

 

-Paul

[SOIL]

...

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

That's enough for a start.

 

Bruce

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi again Bruce,

 

I think I have already tried to answer at least one of the two questions several times -- one of those posts is found on this page in the "old forum".

 

It probably would not be a bad idea for me to (yet again) formulate "updated" answers to both of your reasonable questions .... maybe here pretty soon ....

 

-Dennis

[Aaryn101]

Christian ExC members:

 

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

#1:

Because I believe that these persons are not beyond saving, and my God calls me to minister to them with love. Abuse is something that i can tolerate on a forum, and i would be more than happy to endure it if i can proclaim the Word of God at the same time.

 

#2:

Some ExChristians here i believe actually were Christians, but most only thought that they were.

[Abiyoyo]

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

Well, God actually lead me to a chat room where some of the members have a room(exchristians). I went in to see how it was(first interaction with serious disbelivers). It started out as a bashing pole on me until I asked some questions. I didnt lash back, or say "repent or go to hell". I actually talked with a memeber here for half the night about the Bible.

 

The next few times I just kidda hung out there, and talked with everyone. Then one night this crazy got on and started ranting. The elect "ops" decided to mute all the Christians (me and the ranter). I was tried and "fleshly" and got a little ticked off.

 

Anyhow, I came back in as another name and asked questions as another person. I became upset when the people that seemed to be nice to me and let me hang out pretty much called me ignorant and senseless.

 

I revealed myself and they became furious(even though they were lying to me the whole time too), and kicked me. I pursued to try talking with them for many days(with apologizing).

 

Anyhow, 1 day I was let back in and another memeber decided they had a personnal dislike for me and kicked me again. I was all excited because I was let in and talking with them and all. This person presummably, has the say on this chat to who is there or not.

 

Then, in anger(not really the Christlike thing to do), I found came on here and got in the shout box. One person(also in the chats) told me to go to the forums. After that I have been posting and making some topics here and there.

 

I have been through some things here as well, but I enjoy the learning about the situations and thoughts about why something is not. I research most peoples veiws, replying less than I research. I tend to find answers to most of the questions. I have learned a great deal here, and God already knew my measure of faith to endure this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

No. I believe the word of God has, is, and will be fullfilled through His children that worship Him, and through anyone that doesnt. (I know, Why would God do that if He loves us so much). My POV, is that if He sent His Son to die for us and fulfill the word, then would he not fulfill the word regarding the end. For this world to become what it will become(Biblically), there will be many that are againist Him. He told us who will live here, both.

 

He gives us a free will to make decisions. He has given us forwarning to all things to come. All thats left is simple. You either believe in Him and work His will and help fulfill His word, or you dont believe in Him and fulfill His word about those things. He said whoever is not with me is against me.

[SOIL]

...

Christian ExC members:

 

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bruce,

 

I think I'll add a little now.

 

Sometimes I want to be able to just say what I am thinking - without worrying about the possibility effecting the persons who hear me in a way that turns out to be very detrimental to his or her spiritual health.

 

I think in some manner (twisted maybe?) - I may have been thinking (perhaps somewhere just below my conscious perception) : even if I say something really, really bad here (in this setting) then, - since many of you folks are already of the opinion that there is no good (Christian-type) God - I wouldn't need to worry so much about becoming guilty of leading a fellow brother or sister astray.

 

Maybe (especially when I first begun posting here), I found this to be a place where I could be more completely honest in what I said - at least compared with when I was at church, or even at home. Recently I have become more (similarly), brutally honest even when at home and at church - concerning some of my different ways of viewing things. This: 'just say what I think' type of brutal honestly (even when I know the person with whom I am communicating will most likely NOT like what I am saying) - is kind of liberating in one way ... but sadly, it also can cause pain to ones whom I dearly love, and knowing I have caused others pain has also caused me much pain.

 

As I think many of you know already, honesty can be painful. 'Painfully honest', has become a concept I have learned the hard way.

 

Actually, now that I come to think about it, I suspect this concept (painfuly honest), and the need to communicate what people are feeling - may be one of the reasons - why this has been established - and why it's so often used?

 

...

 

 

Yes, .... I have always been someone a psychologist might refer to as "a curious case".

 

 

-Dennis

[SOIL]

...

Actually, now that I come to think about it,  I suspect this concept (painfully honest), and the need to communicate what people are feeling - may be one of the reasons - why this site has been established - and why it's so often used?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oops!

 

In the above reissued (and now corrected) sentence, I have added the originally intended (though accidentally omitted) word: 'site', (now emphasized via bold).

 

-Dennis

[guacamole]

This thread is started because many of us that are ExChristians are curious about the Christian members. I respectfully ask other ExChristians to not post on this thread, but allow the Christians to respond. For the time being, I am asking you to let myself and Reach post questions. (Is that ok, Reach?) We will open it up for others after the initial responses.

 

Christian ExC members:

 

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

Because after you hang around on a discussion board long enough you encounter all the same issues. I look for new boards to read new posts by new people.

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

That's enough for a start.

 

Bruce

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course I think you're mistaken, I'm still a Christian afterall. As for unjustified, that would depend on the reason.

 

fwiw

guac.

[Guest INKOGNETO]

This thread is started because many of us that are ExChristians are curious about the Christian members. I respectfully ask other ExChristians to not post on this thread, but allow the Christians to respond. For the time being, I am asking you to let myself and Reach post questions. (Is that ok, Reach?) We will open it up for others after the initial responses.

 

Christian ExC members:

 

1. Why are you a member of ExChristian.net, when the ExChristians do not believe in your religion and most thoroughly despise what you believe in?

 

2. Do you feel that we ExChristians are merely mistaken and/or unjustified in leaving the faith that you hold to?

 

That's enough for a start.

 

Bruce

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I feel that "exchristian"s are mistaken....You guys probly became christians because some "christian" told you that you would find peace, true happiness and because you had god shaped hole in your heart that only Christ could fill. And that you needed to be saved. You probly thought saved? Saved from what? My sins? ok..so you did it. You became saved for the wrong reasons...therfore you never were truly saved. And you never really knew God.........and if you are saying you did know God, then you are in direct rebellion towards his will.

 

Here is the real reason we must be saved(saved from the wrath thats to come)....

 

God has a law, the 10 commandments.....and he gave us a conscience(which means, "with knowledge") so we know deep inside when we do wrong.

I'm sure you(and me)...have lied, stolen, you Gods name in vain(which is blasphemy, a serious thing in God's eyes), etc. Which would make us lyers(you only have to lie once to be a lier, just as you only have to murder once to be a murderer), thiefs, blasphemers, etc. The bible says all liars, blasphemers, thievs, adulters will have there place in the lake of fire. And on judgement day, if God judged us by that standered(which the bible states he will)...we would be guilty. which means Hell.

Now maybe some of you think that god is a good and forgiving god and he'll just overlook those....because your overall in your eyes a good person....lets put it this way.

Okay, lets say someone raped and murdered your mom.....he is in the court room and he said, " oh, please judge, my whole life I've done good things to people...I really am a good person...i don't know what got in to me...please let me go.

Now the judge if he is a good judge, is a obviosly still goign to punish the man for what he did. Same with God...Because he is good and just, he must punish sin. We are in deep trouble. One more analogy...

 

Now lets say you were in court with a $50,000 fine. Then some one you don't even know says I will pay the fine for this guy.......thats what Christ did on the cross 2000 years ago....He paid the penalty for our sin, so we don't have to go to hell.

All we have to do is repent of our sins to God(turn away from them), ask his forgiveness. Then He will grant us enternal life.

 

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars? Of course not! Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul

 

This is the reason we should repent and trust in Him.....and if we don't, the Bible says God's wrath abides on us.

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars? Of course not! Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul. Do not put this decision off.

[Guest JP1283]

I feel that "exchristian"s are mistaken....You guys probly became christians because some "christian" told you that you would find peace, true happiness and because you had god shaped hole in your heart that only Christ could fill.  And that you needed to be saved.  You probly thought saved?  Saved from what?  My sins?  ok..so you did it. You became saved for the wrong reasons...therfore you never were truly saved.  And you never really knew God.........and if you are saying you did know God, then you are in direct rebellion towards his will.

 

Here is the real reason we must be saved(saved from the wrath thats to come)....

 

God has a law, the 10 commandments.....and he gave us a conscience(which means, "with knowledge") so we know deep inside when we do wrong.

I'm sure you(and me)...have lied, stolen, you Gods name in vain(which is blasphemy, a serious thing in God's eyes), etc.  Which would make us lyers(you only have to lie once to be a lier, just as you only have to murder once to be a murderer), thiefs, blasphemers, etc.  The bible says all liars, blasphemers, thievs, adulters will have there place in the lake of fire.  And on judgement day, if God judged us by that standered(which the bible states he will)...we would be guilty.  which means Hell. 

Now maybe some of you think that god is a good and forgiving god and he'll just overlook those....because your overall in your eyes a good person....lets put it this way.

  Okay, lets say someone raped and murdered your mom.....he is in the court room and he said, " oh, please judge, my whole life I've done good things to people...I really am a good person...i don't know what got in to me...please let me go.

Now the judge if he is a good judge, is a obviosly still goign to punish the man for what he did.      Same with God...Because he is good and just, he must punish sin. We are in deep trouble.  One more analogy...

 

Now lets say you were in court with a $50,000 fine.  Then some one you don't even know says I will pay the fine for this guy.......thats what Christ did on the cross 2000 years ago....He paid the penalty for our sin, so we don't have to go to hell.

All we have to do is repent of our sins to God(turn away from them),  ask his forgiveness.  Then He will grant us enternal life. 

 

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars?  Of course not!  Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul

 

This is the reason we should repent and trust in Him.....and if we don't, the Bible says God's wrath abides on us.

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars?  Of course not!  Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul.  Do not put this decision off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey Inkognutjob,

Where did you copy/paste this from? We've heard it a billion times before...

 

JP

[Reach]

I feel that "exchristian"s are mistaken....

Uh...

 

We've heard all of that before. Do you have anything new to add, some new shred of revelation or something special that God might have told you personally?

[Cerise]

I feel... <snip>...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Guest AscendoTuumDeus]

I feel that "exchristian"s are mistaken....You guys probly became christians because some "christian" told you that you would find peace, true happiness and because you had god shaped hole in your heart that only Christ could fill.  And that you needed to be saved.  You probly thought saved?  Saved from what?  My sins?  ok..so you did it. You became saved for the wrong reasons...therfore you never were truly saved.  And you never really knew God.........and if you are saying you did know God, then you are in direct rebellion towards his will.

 

Here is the real reason we must be saved(saved from the wrath thats to come)....

 

God has a law, the 10 commandments.....and he gave us a conscience(which means, "with knowledge") so we know deep inside when we do wrong.

I'm sure you(and me)...have lied, stolen, you Gods name in vain(which is blasphemy, a serious thing in God's eyes), etc.  Which would make us lyers(you only have to lie once to be a lier, just as you only have to murder once to be a murderer), thiefs, blasphemers, etc.  The bible says all liars, blasphemers, thievs, adulters will have there place in the lake of fire.  And on judgement day, if God judged us by that standered(which the bible states he will)...we would be guilty.  which means Hell. 

Now maybe some of you think that god is a good and forgiving god and he'll just overlook those....because your overall in your eyes a good person....lets put it this way.

  Okay, lets say someone raped and murdered your mom.....he is in the court room and he said, " oh, please judge, my whole life I've done good things to people...I really am a good person...i don't know what got in to me...please let me go.

Now the judge if he is a good judge, is a obviosly still goign to punish the man for what he did.      Same with God...Because he is good and just, he must punish sin.   We are in deep trouble.  One more analogy...

 

Now lets say you were in court with a $50,000 fine.  Then some one you don't even know says I will pay the fine for this guy.......thats what Christ did on the cross 2000 years ago....He paid the penalty for our sin, so we don't have to go to hell.

All we have to do is repent of our sins to God(turn away from them),  ask his forgiveness.  Then He will grant us enternal life. 

 

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars?  Of course not!  Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul

 

This is the reason we should repent and trust in Him.....and if we don't, the Bible says God's wrath abides on us.  

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars?  Of course not!  Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul.  Do not put this decision off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will now break this post down piece-by-piece to point out each logical fallacy.

I feel that "exchristian"s are mistaken....You guys probly became christians because some "christian" told you that you would find peace, true happiness and because you had god shaped hole in your heart that only Christ could fill.  And that you needed to be saved.  You probly thought saved?  Saved from what?  My sins?  ok..so you did it. You became saved for the wrong reasons...therfore you never were truly saved.  And you never really knew God.........and if you are saying you did know God, then you are in direct rebellion towards his will.

Hasty generalization (how do you or would you know this?). Argumentum ad metum (in direct rebellion, my God will smite you...). [EDIT] Also the No True Scotsman(...) fallacy.

Here is the real reason we must be saved(saved from the wrath thats to come)....

 

God has a law, the 10 commandments.....and he gave us a conscience(which means, "with knowledge") so we know deep inside when we do wrong.

I'm sure you(and me)...have lied, stolen, you Gods name in vain(which is blasphemy, a serious thing in God's eyes), etc.  Which would make us lyers(you only have to lie once to be a lier, just as you only have to murder once to be a murderer), thiefs, blasphemers, etc.  The bible says all liars, blasphemers, thievs, adulters will have there place in the lake of fire.  And on judgement day, if God judged us by that standered(which the bible states he will)...we would be guilty.  which means Hell. 

Argumentum ad medum (again). Unverifiable presupposition.

Now maybe some of you think that god is a good and forgiving god and he'll just overlook those....because your overall in your eyes a good person....lets put it this way.

  Okay, lets say someone raped and murdered your mom.....he is in the court room and he said, " oh, please judge, my whole life I've done good things to people...I really am a good person...i don't know what got in to me...please let me go.

Now the judge if he is a good judge, is a obviosly still goign to punish the man for what he did.      Same with God...Because he is good and just, he must punish sin.   We are in deep trouble.  One more analogy...

 

Now lets say you were in court with a $50,000 fine.  Then some one you don't even know says I will pay the fine for this guy.......thats what Christ did on the cross 2000 years ago....He paid the penalty for our sin, so we don't have to go to hell.

All we have to do is repent of our sins to God(turn away from them),  ask his forgiveness.  Then He will grant us enternal life. 

Argumentum ad medum (once again). Contradiction (your Bible also says that God is all-just as well as all-merciful, if God is all-good then why does he send people to burn in hell for ever, which could be considered the greatest evil that any thing could ever do; a clear contradiction). Wishful thinking. Unverifiable presupposition.

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars?  Of course not!  Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul

 

This is the reason we should repent and trust in Him.....and if we don't, the Bible says God's wrath abides on us.  

Would you sell one of your eyes for 100,000 dollars?  Of course not!  Our eyes are precious to us...they are the windows of our soul....how much more precious is our soul.  Do not put this decision off.

Another argumentum ad medum. Ignoratio elenchi (a red herring). (Sigh).

[Fweethawt]

God has a law, the 10 commandments.....and he gave us a conscience(which means, "with knowledge") so we know deep inside when we do wrong.

 

It's really funny that you should mention this.

 

There are times when we leave the house for up to eight or ten hours at a time. Sometimes, not all of the time, when we return we notice that our schnauzer peed on the corner of the couch leg, or he peed on the corner of one of the bed frames.

 

When we notice this, I look at him and say, "Mickey, did you do that?", and immediately he puts his ears down, looks down at the floor, and heads to the front door.

 

He knows "deep inside" when he does wrong too.

 

That's cuz God gave him a conscience!