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As I moved away from Christianity, my politics changed but an incident New Year's eve made me solidly not only not Republican but have convinced me to never vote for that pile of filth party again. Some motherfucker tried to convert me on his blog! I told him, you fucking hick go to Hell and shove your damn King James Bible up your ass and I have had an unofficial war on the Republican Party ever since. Can't be an American if you're an atheist? Then fuck America. I might as well live in Afghanistan.

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Can't be an American if you're an atheist? Then fuck America. I might as well live in Afghanistan.

 

You say it brother. :pureevil:

 

Honestly, my political views didn't change significantly during my deconversion. Not inasmuch as my German homeland is concerned that is. Before I thought our established parties and coalitions consist of idiots, now I think the same. ;)

However, it did change many of my views regarding the US, because shortly after deconversion curiosity made me stumble over the fundie fuckfaces and their corrosive influence on a basically great country. I'll admit it here (and have it before) that before my deconversion I was largely supportive of shrubbenführer's crusade because I figured "Even if the US have their own agenda down there, someone has to kick this fat dictator arse out".

I guess you can imagine how I think about all that now. :banghead:

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As I moved away from Christianity, my politics changed but an incident New Year's eve made me solidly not only not Republican but have convinced me to never vote for that pile of filth party again. Some motherfucker tried to convert me on his blog! I told him, you fucking hick go to Hell and shove your damn King James Bible up your ass and I have had an unofficial war on the Republican Party ever since. Can't be an American if you're an atheist? Then fuck America. I might as well live in Afghanistan.

 

 

Sorry, but you have an atheist here who is solidly a right wing, Reagan republican. I still believe they are best on foreign policy and defense and the economy is surging under them. Also, I have personally saved a fortune from the Republican tax cuts. No one listens to them socially anyway.

These are just my opinions and we are fortunate to be able to express our own opinions.

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I have experienced a dramatic shift in my political thinking. The Republicans have become most vocal on social policy (gay marriage) and foreign policy (Iraq) and the more they shout the less I can stomach any association. But I've also become rather intolerant of politics in general, regardless of party. As I mentioned in other threads, it is partially due to reading Noam Chomsky. The last time I felt any sort of patriotic pride was after 9/11. It's been all downhill ever since.

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Oregon is really askewed. I have to be either a Democrat or Republican to vote in our Priamry elections. Registerd Republican, but vote for whomthefuckEVAH seems best for job.

 

As far as affiliation? I didn't leave the Republicans, they long left me years ago.

 

If I had to claim some form of thought of affiliation, Libertarian is more to my liking, but they even are too far *right* for my liking.

 

"Practical Anarchy" works for me..

 

kFL

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Leaving religion changed how I voted concerning social issues (I didn't get that worked up about gay marriage and abortion, but I thought I had to vote against both). Working full-time changed how I thought about economic issues, though.

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I went from conservative to apathetic. I was a dilligent conservative Republican for many years, and that went hand-in-hand with being fervently Xian. I got very used to turning a blind eye to Republican shenanigans while digging dirt on the eeevil Democrats.

 

But after my deconversion, I found I just couldn't make excuses for the GOP anymore than I could for the GOP's god. However, I wanted nothing to do with the Democrats or hardcore liberalism anymore than I wanted to remain a conservative Republican. Choosing to get run over by a Mack truck isn't any better than getting run over by a Kenilworth.

 

Politics is a mostly futile exercise, and something I refuse to participate in until laws are enacted that legally require elected officials to live up to their campaign promises in a timely fashion or else be expelled from office for good. Anything else is giving politicans a blank check to write on the people for however long they happen to be in office. It's similar to the ancient Germanic method of tribal king elections; a tribe chose their king and if he didn't work out, they could vote him out at any time. I can't understand how people continue to persist in politics without demanding something like this - it's not like there is no precedent for it. But, since a measure like that is too honest for most politicans to accept, I know I'll have to wait until my country politically implodes for it to potentially be realized.

 

Can't be an American if you're an atheist? Then fuck America. I might as well live in Afghanistan.

 

There's nothing American about being Xian. It's an un-American religion.

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In the fundy days I was a die-hard Republican, by the end of my Christian years (I had gotten more liberal) I had shifted (albeit reluctantly) over to the Democrats.

 

But I think it just makes more sense.

 

1) The stock market does better under Democrats.

 

2) Progressive taxation is fairer than "equal" taxes preferred by Republicans. A wealthier person normally makes more use of public services than do the poor--e.g. the streets are used not only for their own use, but to move their products and workforce to them; the fire and police departments serve not only their residences but also their businesses; etc.

 

3) Regarding foreign policy, Republicans are far less likely to think of themselves as global citizens and less likely to understand ways of solving disputes without the military--e.g. truly making an investment in conservation and alternative energy would undercut the power of the Middle East.

 

4) Democrats seem to value free public education more so than Republicans.

 

5) Democrats seem to value the health of the environment more than Republicans who, even in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence and unity, try to deny global warming and downplay any responsibility we might have in ebbing it--quote from GOP platform, "Our President and our Party strongly oppose the Kyoto Protocol and similar mandatory carbon emissions controls that harm economic growth and destroy American jobs." [uh, no planet, no jobs guys.]

 

6) Republicans tend to be beholden to the Religious Right in social issues:

a. Federally-funded faith-based initiatives--"We also affirm that the hiring rights of religious organizations must be maintained so that religious charities do not have to abandon their religious character in order to provide publicly funded services" (GOP Platform).

 

b. Pushing religious sex practices--"We also support the President’s efforts to double the amount spent on abstinence-only education and to promote healthy relationships.. . . we support doubling abstinence education funding. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals, counseling, and related services for contraception and abortion" (GOP Platform).

 

c. Discriminating against homosexuals--"We further believe that legal recognition and the accompanying benefits afforded couples should be preserved for that unique and special union of one man and one woman which has historically been called marriage" (GOP Platform).

 

d. Opposing Abortion--"That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed . . . We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life . . . We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion." (GOP Platform). [Now, I can't remember, are judges supposed to legislate from the bench or not? Why are they appointing judges who have a political bias? So they can legislate? Hmmm.]

 

***

 

I think it is overly idealistic in our time to say that you can simply "vote for the best candidate." Individual candidates can do very little by themselves. It is, unfortunately, all about party control. It is about which party has enough power to push their agenda. An individual member of a party who tries to vote differently than their party will find herself relegated to menial tasks and powerless committees.

 

I find it necessary to be a "party-voter." A lot of people think this is a foolish position to take. They think of it as small-minded. I think of myself as a realist about this issue. I read the party platforms (here's the GOP's and here's the Democrats' if you are interested), decide which one is closer to my own beliefs, and vote for candidates from that party. The party in power is the one that can pursue its platform. With the way the political system works now it makes little difference what candidate is "better." Good candidates are only as good as the party they help to gain enough power to legislate their platform. I don't like the GOP platform (e.g. I don't want my taxes to support faith-based groups; I don't want my country to discriminate against homosexuals; I don't want a woman's reproductive rights to be taken away; I don't want ineffective abstinence-only programs to replace ones that will save lives; I don't want to continue harming the environment; I don't want the wealthy to pay less taxes while using more resources; I don't want federal money funneled into private religious schools through vouchers; I don't want maverick foreign policies; and I want a stronger economy), so I don't vote for Republicans.

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I vote Democrat. I used to be a hard-lining Republican because I didn't know any better.

 

That's what I've found out about neo-cons and Republicans, by watching my mother: They deliberately keep themselves ignorant of what's really going on, because that helps them keep their views. It's a lot easier to support the war in Iraq when you don't know how many real people are actually suffering over there.

 

That's also why neo-cons would support an invasion of Iran. They generally don't choose to remember that little one in the 50's, you know, that time the American government got upset because the democratically-elected Iranian president wanted to nationalize his country's oil reserves and so the US invaded and installed the autocratic and despotic torture-loving shah as their puppt. They just think that Iran hates us for no good reason, purely out of their ingrained Muslim spite (every Muslim has spite) and jealousy of the greatest country on earth.

 

Both my parents are conservatives, and to them, the idea that if we've got no more excuse to have nuclear weapons than Iran or North Korea, is simply ludicrous. We're AMERICA, damn it, and we're the greatest people on earth, and it's our divine right to blow the shit out of those piddly little bastard countries that oppose us. My dad's an atheist, which is unusual for a neo-con, he's actually pretty critical of churches and religion. But his extreme nationalistic pride and sexist, racist vigor still have a warm place in his heart.

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I vote Democrat. I used to be a hard-lining Republican because I didn't know any better.

 

That's what I've found out about neo-cons and Republicans, by watching my mother: They deliberately keep themselves ignorant of what's really going on, because that helps them keep their views. It's a lot easier to support the war in Iraq when you don't know how many real people are actually suffering over there.

 

That's also why neo-cons would support an invasion of Iran. They generally don't choose to remember that little one in the 50's, you know, that time the American government got upset because the democratically-elected Iranian president wanted to nationalize his country's oil reserves and so the US invaded and installed the autocratic and despotic torture-loving shah as their puppt. They just think that Iran hates us for no good reason, purely out of their ingrained Muslim spite (every Muslim has spite) and jealousy of the greatest country on earth.

 

Both my parents are conservatives, and to them, the idea that if we've got no more excuse to have nuclear weapons than Iran or North Korea, is simply ludicrous. We're AMERICA, damn it, and we're the greatest people on earth, and it's our divine right to blow the shit out of those piddly little bastard countries that oppose us. My dad's an atheist, which is unusual for a neo-con, he's actually pretty critical of churches and religion. But his extreme nationalistic pride and sexist, racist vigor still have a warm place in his heart.

 

 

Well everything you said is me except my parents are Christian. :HappyCry:

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As I moved away from Christianity, my politics changed but an incident New Year's eve made me solidly not only not Republican but have convinced me to never vote for that pile of filth party again.

 

I am and have always been very independent and a stern opponent of the two party system.

 

Can't be an American if you're an atheist? Then fuck America. I might as well live in Afghanistan.

 

True dat!

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I went from die-hard conservative to fiscal conservative/social liberal. (AKA libertarian)

 

But that change was BEFORE I deconverted, it might have even contributed to the anger I felt towards fundies that led me to eventually deconvert completely.

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Can't be an American if you're an atheist? Then fuck America. I might as well live in Afghanistan.

 

In Afghanistan, if your not a Muslim they can legally behead you. In America, that can't happen (as of now at least). Would you rather be beheaded? Would you rather be killed because you're not a Muslim?

 

I don't want to turn this into a huge debate but i'm pretty clear on my own politics, the problem is that they don't align with the current political parties.

 

It really depends on what issue and where those people stand. I want a laissez-faire capitalism and a minarchist government that focuss on protecting individual rights (life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness) and only needs a strong set of laws and a competent court system to back them up with a well trained police force to keep the peace at home and a large, strong and powerful army to keep invanders and foreign threats away. The State is seperated from Religion, Education,Science and Economy. Bascially a government that focuses on the principle of individual liberty and acts like a silent watchmen that protects everyone from the initiation of force.

 

My political affiliation = freedom.

 

 

No one aligns with that. They violate your freedom in someway or another. So I have to look at the current political situation and the issues at hand.

 

The biggest issue we face today is the War on Terror. The war essentially should be against religious totalitarianism, especially Islamic totalitarianism, whose adovactes and zealots have been killing American citizens for years. 9/11 being the biggest example of this.

 

So on that front, the obvious choice would be the Republicans. They advocate being "tough on terror" right? But then you have to look at what else they advocate, when you realize that they themselves are religionists as well. Not the same kind as the Muslim radicals, but they have the potential to come to the same place if they continue to undermine the principle of seperation of church and state. They are slowly becoming the thing they are trying to fight against. Instead of fighting against the evils of Islam and religion they are "spreading democracy" which should not be the goal of this War. This war should make the terrorists a non-threat to America and it's citizens, not winning "heart's and minds" in the Middle East. They can blow themselves up all they want, as long as they don't threaten the American people.

 

Bush said he would deal with state-sponsered-terrorism, the biggest sponsor of terrorism has always been Iran with Saudi Arabia coming close on the list and yet we do nothing about either. I see alot of people on this board talk about how America is planning to invade Iran. But that's bull. Bush is talking about negotiations with Iran even though they have openly advocating destorying us and are trying to get the nukes to do it.

 

Here they acknowledge Iranian militias and groups killing our men and although they said they would fight them in the borders that they won't take it outside the borders and basically will negotiate with Iran. It's alot like Nazi Germany in WWII, everyone saw them as a problem but refused to do anything about them.

 

It's a problem in the media too because of the way they screwed up Iraq and now when people talk about going into Iran they think it's going to be another Iraq and there is strong opposition, when we should fought against Iran in the first place, even before Iraq. Bush made it to where no one trusts him in the first place. He is in no position to wage a real war.

 

One of the only real threats here is Iran. But now, the Republicans or the Democrats won't do anything about it.

 

Another major issue is environmentalism. I disagree with them and think the environmentalists agenda is pure bullshit and evil, but now the evangelicals and the Republicans are aligning themselves with the environmentalists. So it makes no difference.

 

The Republicans want to teach Creationism in schools and want to ban abortion, which I disagree with. But the Democrats want to give away free healthcare to everyone and destroy the economy and hike up taxes to do it, which I disagree with.

 

 

As of now, I can't support either part 100% without feeling that i'm condoning their particular evils. I might vote Democrat to undermine the religionists grip on the country, but I might vote Republican to undermine the environmentalists/multiculturalists grip on the country. Either way it's a pick of the lesser of two evils. Right now i'm just searching for the right way to stave off all the bad effects of bad politics.

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I deconverted before the fundies had become so political and before the Republican party had become so firmly lodged in the pocket of the religious right.

 

I was always rather socially liberal, even as an xian: maybe it was an indication that I didn't really fit in as a fundy or maybe because I got much less direction from the pulpit on how to believe and vote regarding politics than today's xians get.

 

In any case, over time I've gradually become more liberal. I'm still somewhat Libertarian (i.e., fiscally conservative while socially liberal), but now I'm closer to a right leaning moderate fiscally, and I've even found room to move further left socially.

 

I'm not necessarily thrilled with the Democrats, but I virtually always consider them a no-brainer preference over the Republicans. If only the Republicans REALLY stood for freedom and fiscal responsibility.

 

Some reasons I'm unhappy about Republicans:

 

The sentiment of G W Bush Sr. is all too rampant: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

 

The Republican party's desire to unite Church and State.

 

Promotion of bigotry and intolerance with respect to gays and other groups.

 

Lack of regard for the first amendment.

 

Lack of regard for the fourth amendment.

 

Lack of regard for the fifth amendment.

 

Lack of regard for science, especially if it conflicts with religion, and the practices of discouraging certain research (stem cell research is one good example).

 

The support for such measures as the Patriot Act, improper wiretapping, etc.

 

In general, the move in the direction of a police state under the guise of the "war on terror."

 

The tendency to wage war with other countries with impunity under the guise of the "war on terror."

 

A misplaced sense of priorities, plunging the United States into terrible debt to maintain a war machine, where all those billions could either not be spent, or used for some of the compassionate causes Republicans tend to oppose in the name of "fiscal conservatism."

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The closer I've watched politics, the more I've become convinced that BOTH MAJOR PARTIES SUCK BIG BULLBALLS!

 

But what does one do? Stop voting? Vote Libertarian (which I think mostly represents my position, but is no better than not voting at all)?

 

To quote V from V for Vendetta, "There's something terribly wrong with this country".

 

Dan

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As I moved away from Christianity, my politics changed but an incident New Year's eve made me solidly not only not Republican but have convinced me to never vote for that pile of filth party again. Some motherfucker tried to convert me on his blog! I told him, you fucking hick go to Hell and shove your damn King James Bible up your ass and I have had an unofficial war on the Republican Party ever since. Can't be an American if you're an atheist? Then fuck America. I might as well live in Afghanistan.

 

I was an atheist by the time I started voting. And I do vote.

 

Most politics above the city level is bad, because politics is about being elected, not serving your constituents. At least, for most politics.

 

Both parties have supported bad things. I remember when Tipper Gore was behind the whole "explicit lyrics" labelling for music - which was pretty stupid, because it had the opposite effect.

 

But when you compare that to what the GOP has supported - loss of civil rights, incredible shifting of tax burden off the high-earners to the middle class (If I make $50,000 off dividents, I pay a fraction of what somebody who makes $50,000 of salary), it's easy for me to decide who to vote for.

 

Despite the fact that I benefit from those policies

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I consider myself independent and moderate(although I'm a flaming liberal on some issues). I've never voted Republican. To me Republican is just a synonym for Nazi. Granted, I think both parties are owned lock, stock, and smoking barrel by corporate America I find Democrats to be the lesser of two evils(although the dems are evil too).

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I've shifted more towards the right since I became an atheist. In the last Federal Election (I'm Canadian) I voted for the NDP (the most leftist party to hold significant political sway), partly because of my lingering Christian values (I was a very Liberal & agnostic Christian at the time). I still think that Christianity & left-wing politics are a natural fit, and the whole "christian right" phenomenon strikes me as rather contradictory. Interestingly, In Canada, Christianity has historically tied itself to left wing politics: for example, Tommy Douglas--recently chosen as the "Greatest Canadian" in a nationwide poll--was a baptist minister who led the first socialist party in North America, and founded public health care in Canada.

 

I'm a lot less idealistic now, and many of the stances of the left-wing parties strike me as woefully unrealistic. I consider myself a swing voter. The Conservative party hasn't given me much cause for complaint, but I don't feel very comfortable with their values. On the other hand, I don't trust the Liberal party. We'll see what happens when the next election hits.

 

I am, however, utterly opposed to the Republican party. I often think of trying to become a US citizen just so I can vote Democrat.

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Well you know, it's only in the past 50 years or so that the "Religious Right" existed.

 

As much as many of us would like it not to be true, many evangelicals were staunchly Democrat (remember the ol' "Southern Democrat", anyone?) and stood on the front lines of women's suffrage and the civil rights movements.

 

They even stood in firm support of (gasp!) seperation of church and state. They enjoyed the fact that no official religion existed, and that they could worship as they pleased without state interference. (This is also where a lot of anti-Catholic feeling came from; because of the Catholic Church's system of authority and heirarchy, many Protestants felt that they [the Catholics] wanted to impose a European-style "state church" in the US. This is the reason my grandmother, who is a staunch Democrat, did not vote for Kennedy.)

 

What changed it all? I'm not sure precisely what event in particular triggered the shift to the Republican side and the idea of religiously-sponsored government. Most likely a variety of factors, such as the rise of the televangelists leading to certain churches and ministries having too much money on their hands, the sexual revolution of the 60's and 70's combined with the desertion of youth from traditional Christian values to religious apathy and/or Eastern philosophies (and the fact that these two cultural changes earned tolerance from the Democrats), and too many baby boomers getting rich and fat.

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I used to be really conservative. I'm still conservative on defense/fiscal stuff but far more liberal on the social issues so I moved to a more libertarian/centerist political point of view.

 

I still vote republican, mainly because I feel they have the best plan for defense and national security. The dems really don't have a plan, their entire politcal strategy is to oppose everything republican, even when the republicans decide to try something else ( the troop surge was originally suggested by the left, but they have suddenly decided against it because bush decided to give it a try) I can not in good conscience vote for such a wishy washy weak minded party, whatever they are doing is not going to be in the best interests of this country, it is going to be totally politcally minded and it drives me nuts. The republicans are not necessarialy on my good list either, I hate their postion of social issues... they seem ignorant on things like climate change, science education, and abortion. But at least with them I know what im getting into before hand... most of the time.

 

Seems I'm forced to pick the lesser of the two evils, lately its been the republicans.

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I still vote republican, mainly because I feel they have the best plan for defense and national security.

 

While I in no way support the democrats on national security issues, I must say that the Republicans have done and are doing a bang up job in this area. :twitch:

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I still vote republican, mainly because I feel they have the best plan for defense and national security. ......

 

Seems I'm forced to pick the lesser of the two evils, lately its been the republicans.

 

The Republicans "defense" is to label everyone (Americans or not) a potential terrorist by tracking library books, Travel, Banking and a host of other infringements. Their War on Terror is a pant load and a catchy catch-phrase to divert the reality of what's going on. Abolishing the laws and Liberties of the land (Constitution) doesn't keep it safe, it does the opposite, regardless of the propaganda of we need to keep the liberty's safe by putting them on hold.

 

I haven't seen anything from this party but expanding government, and upping the Taxes, Just how are all these *NEW* Programs going to be funded? Basic rights are stripped from every American, Every amendment has been put on hold. altered or abolished aside from the 3rd. You want to talk about wishy washy, The reasons for the war have pretty much changed on a daily basis. When that "reason" is over used or light is shed on it, they jump to a new reason.

 

I was a card caring, Broken glass Member of the RNC. I helped elect W and worked extremely hard on his campaigning back in 2000. Was part of the Presidential commissions for my Town and so forth. The RNC has Outspent and Out Expanded Government more then any Democrat ever! We are sucked into a never ending war based upon Hysteria and lies. Facts no longer matter perception is this country's gawd.

 

This last election I didn't campaign for, but voted for Kerry, (Against Bush). I just don't have the heart to jump back into politics just yet. No one inspires me to do so thus far. Although, part of me feels partly responsible for the horrendous government we have. I should jump back in and put my energy behind electing someone opposite of W, I just haven't found the candidate yet.

 

Today I'm a Staunch Libertarian, but will vote for whom ever is closest to my ideals and has a realistic shot of winning. That being said, I don't know that I can vote for Ron Paul and give the RNC a vote. He might be a Libertarian but I believe the RNC needs to have it's power stripped from them for a couple of decades as punishment for what they've done. If Ron Paul runs as a Dem or Libertarian I would vote for him, but not as a Republican no way.

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