bluewizard Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I may be eating lunch with a very religious fundamentalist I met in my religious studies class, everyone in there knows I'm an atheist as we told our religious beliefs on the first day of class. Today we talked after class about basic things then he asked if I would ever accept Jesus as my savior and I said "No, I'm stuck in my beliefs", and I said my family would like that to happen as well. :lol But he acted very friendly towards me and wants to eat lunch with me sometime and I have no problem with that. But what I'm wondering is is this some type of ploy to try to convert me? I'll have to see for myself, he's very educated in making the right excuses for things to suport Christianity but I don't care really, seems like a nice person. I told the class I was raised Baptist and that's what he is so I'm sure I'll get aske dplenty of questions about leaving that. But What do you think of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'm pretty sure the guy is gonna try to convert you and that this is why he's being so friendly. Just don't let your guard down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markkasan Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Odds are he'll try to convert you. It's possible he's interested in an atheist point of view, but not likely. Bring your logic and your patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Odds are he'll try to convert you. It's possible he's interested in an atheist point of view, but not likely. Bring your logic and your patience. My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahh! Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Don't even open yourself up for this. I thought I could be friends with an evangelical and the next thing I know, he's handing me Jews For Jesus pamphlets. Run the next time you see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 is this some type of ploy to try to convert me? Short answer: YES. Longer answer: FUCK YES. Evangelicals are some of the most slimy, slippery, saccharine, devious, emotionally manipulative bastards on the planet. I would bet ready money that his friendliness is not genuine, but is either a variation on friendship evangelism, or perhaps a form of love-bombing. Chances are extremely good (unfortunately) that he is not actually interested in getting to know you simply because you are an interesting human being in your own right. It is more likely that he has ulterior motives, and only seeks to get to know you because he's looking for weaknesses, spots in your psyche where you are allegedly vulnerable, into which he can slip his own religion. A sure sign of this? Watch to see if he grows hostile at your resistance to his conversion attempts, and if he does, watch to see to what degree. (Some frustration might be expected. Abuse is a dead giveaway that you're nothing more than a potential notch on his crucifix.) It's probably obvious that I'm extremely jaded about the intentions of evangelicals. It has to do partly with having been one myself once, and partly with having been burned by several of them. As cynical as I am about it, though, I hope that I turn out to be wrong, and he's just out for some interesting conversation. I wouldn't bet the farm on it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'm pretty sure the guy is gonna try to convert you and that this is why he's being so friendly. Just don't let your guard down! I guess that's it. If this one is genuinely friendly for a change, so much the better... but for all I've learned about your morontheists, it's probably just an attempt to get you to trust him so that he can deceive you (back) into the cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I'm pretty sure the guy is gonna try to convert you and that this is why he's being so friendly. Just don't let your guard down! Of course, come prepared and you may turn the tables and plant a seed of doubt that might grow to break the chains of brainwashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhia Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Mmm... I just love the smell of Love-Bombing at lunchtime. (Wow, I even think I'm lame!) Yes, he is trying to get to you. Most Christians think that if they can befriend non-believers, that their "testimony" will bring them to Christ. Many times, this results in both parties pissed off at each other; the Christian because it's obvious that the attempt at breaking down someone and winning heaven points just isn't working, and the non-theist because well, that little fucker just got way too annoying. In my case (very recent) I had a girl befriend me, I trusted her, I thought she understood that I would put up with her if she would put up with me, and found out in the end that she thinks I'm going to hell and is desperately "trying to stop" my "demise". So have fun with your lunch, but make sure he knows that you're not going to budge anymore than he will. Though if you're into that whole thing, you could theoretically drain him of everything beforehand, 'cause Christians sure do love to grovel and be generous if they think they're gonna bring ya to Christ. I wouldn't suggest it, because the aftermath is typically extremely hostile, but if that's your thing, rock on. I would say "run far away" but if you think the coast is clear (or at least you don't see the mack-truck speeding at you with headlights glaring just yet) then lunch can't hurt that badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Agnostic Aussie Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 My 2c worth: My approach with people like this is to try to follow their arguments. For me, I have genuinely sought christianity and genuinely found that most parts of it didn't make sense. We probably all know the feeling of processing an idea in our mind and then realising that it doesn't make sense or isn't consistent. I just calmy try to follow the line of argument, and voice these objections along the way. The affect will be two-fold; You will be providing a rebuttal to his line of argument, and at the same time showing him that you really are trying to follow his system of thinking and not simply devising a clever escape route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 My 2c worth: My approach with people like this is to try to follow their arguments. For me, I have genuinely sought christianity and genuinely found that most parts of it didn't make sense. We probably all know the feeling of processing an idea in our mind and then realising that it doesn't make sense or isn't consistent. I just calmy try to follow the line of argument, and voice these objections along the way. The affect will be two-fold; You will be providing a rebuttal to his line of argument, and at the same time showing him that you really are trying to follow his system of thinking and not simply devising a clever escape route. That might work, if you're up to the hassle that is sure to come when he sees you're not budging. What I've been finding with my sisters recently is that they will pretend to be interested but the extent of their interest is to get me into a corner and prove me wrong. So I fight for my life and somehow or other get them into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 If we're talking about a full-on fundamentalist, then I don't think there is any possible way of distinguishing him as a friend from him as a preacher trying to convert you. Converting people is his life's work...it's not just what he does, it's what he is. Being a friend, in his own twisted way, is what he is trying to do when he tries to convert you. Is he wrong? Almost definitely. Is he deliberately doing anything coercive, deceptive or evil? I seriously doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 I love how all Fundementalists are armchair converters. The arrogance of some of them to think they are trained to brainwash the rest of us, and the arrogance to get angry when we don't convert. Reminds me of the failings of Obi Wan Kenobi with Anikan Skywalker. That arrogance cost the Republic and the Jedi dearly. (Hey, they use fantasy stories to bolster their worldviews, then so can I). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Actually, I would recommond being pro-active about it. Say to this turkey that you want to make this lunch more of a business lunch and propose a discussion topic and have him committ to it. He is not allowed to drift and offer up a bunch of talking points that Christians normally puke out when the evidence doesn't back them up. Then get your questions ready. Anticipate his rebuttals. Prepare some responses. Hell, even practice them first. Remember, he has the burden of proof here. Not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothartx Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Never in my experience (I'm 44) has a fundy/evangelical person invited me to do anything, anywhere at anytime that the purpose was NOT to "poke holes" in my world view. On the other hand, moderate Christians, non-evangelicals, I have had little or no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyone Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I would have to add that it's likely that he is just wanting a chance to get to know you better so he can share his beliefs. I'm a little puzzled why he would want to if he knows you were raised a Baptist. I mean, you should already know about slavation and all that. I do know that when I was a KJV-only dedicated fundy Baptist, I would generally try to find an opening to invite someone to church or share the gospel. I felt guilty if I was friends with someone and didn't try to draw them to church. I'm so glad those guilt-filled days are behind me now. Sparkyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I love how all Fundementalists are armchair converters. The arrogance of some of them to think they are trained to brainwash the rest of us, and the arrogance to get angry when we don't convert. Plus the arrogance of using the same old shit again, just like the 567,333,012 other fundies before them. Just like the babblical cretinists (well, granted that they hurl their shit for the very same reason - to deceive more victims into their cults). Nothing like starting your day with reading such usenet gems of fundy wisdom like "hilter was an athiest!!!111!!!" or "the 2nd law of thermodynics says that ebilutin is impossibl, ha haaa!!111!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcissist Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 If I may comment from a slightly different point of view... I remember when I was uber-fundie, I was fascinated by people of other world views who were more confident of their "reality" than I was of mine, and in a small, peverse way, attracted to them (intellectually, not sexually lol). Of course, on the outside, I was "hole-poking Uber-Christian", but inside, I was asking myself how these "lost, satanic, sinful heathens" seemed more happy, confident and honest than "truth-bearing, truly free, God is on my side and has removed all doubt" me. Thus the seeds of doubt were sown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbobrob Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 on the outside, I was "hole-poking Uber-Christian", but inside, I was asking myself how these "lost, satanic, sinful heathens" seemed more happy, confident and honest than "truth-bearing, truly free, God is on my side and has removed all doubt" me. Why aren't I more like that? That is what I am starting to think. I have held in so much anger, and fear of being wrong. But the more I let go of my old beliefs, and have started really asking myself "what do I believe?" the more I'm coming around to the idea that I can be more happy, confident and honest. Been hiding inside myself too long, so others don't see my real self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 If I may comment from a slightly different point of view... I remember when I was uber-fundie, I was fascinated by people of other world views who were more confident of their "reality" than I was of mine, and in a small, peverse way, attracted to them (intellectually, not sexually lol). Of course, on the outside, I was "hole-poking Uber-Christian", but inside, I was asking myself how these "lost, satanic, sinful heathens" seemed more happy, confident and honest than "truth-bearing, truly free, God is on my side and has removed all doubt" me. Thus the seeds of doubt were sown... "nods" this was exactly me. Early in my deconversion I stumbled across a inter-faith forum. It jsut struck me how angry and arrogant a lot of xians came off. Also there was a rule about no prothelising, and you could not try to encourage someone to leave a faith they professed. Almost all other faiths quickly got that rule and followed it, but xians. Even the fundy Muslims just left that forum, Christians though had this attitude about following god's laws and not mans. I didn't see it as a conflict. I could say I was a Christian, I could tell why I was and talk about it. As long as I didn't directly try to convert someone. I quickly became one of the few christians people liked. Funny that isn't it? Seems a lot of the "nice" ones are secretly questioning the whole ball of wax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Remember, the louder they scream and bitch and moan, the more desperate they are in trying to silence their own inner voices of doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I think you should give it a shot. At the last school I went (before "leaving"), all my friends were fundies and we got on pretty well. Until I realised that it was all just a huge plot to screw me over super big time. I only realised it though after they did it... okay, so maybe rather don't give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonkey Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I think I might be breaking with the majority consensus here. Yes, he may well be trying to convert you. However, I think it's incredibly rude to assume the worst of him at the outset. Eat lunch with him, and if religion comes up, politely but firmly tell him that you're not interested in converting, and that if that's his purpose in meeting with you, then you rather not talk to him at all. If he persists, then tell him "sorry, but I'm not a prize turkey; I'm a human being. And since you don't seem to be interested in treating me like one, I'd rather just stop talking to you." Don't come prepared to "defend yourself" against any fundamentalist diatribes. You don't need to defend yourself, especially not to someone you don't know. Constantly trying to defend your position against anyone who disagrees only breeds insecurity and paranoia. You believe what you believe, and if that's not good enough for him, then politely but firmly excuse yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 South Park Richard Dawkins Nice avatar Fonkey. I so wish I thought of that first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonkey Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Evangelicals are some of the most slimy, slippery, saccharine, devious, emotionally manipulative bastards on the planet. I would bet ready money that his friendliness is not genuine, but is either a variation on friendship evangelism, or perhaps a form of love-bombing. Chances are extremely good (unfortunately) that he is not actually interested in getting to know you simply because you are an interesting human being in your own right. It is more likely that he has ulterior motives, and only seeks to get to know you because he's looking for weaknesses, spots in your psyche where you are allegedly vulnerable, into which he can slip his own religion. I'm sure you've had incredibly painful experiences with evangelical Christianity, but I feel that I can't just let your comments slide. Your description of evangelicals rivals some of the worst caricatures of atheists I've heard from fundamentalist militants, not only in their vindictiveness, but also in their short-sightedness. Pretty much EVERYONE I know (with only a handful of exceptions) is an evangelical Christian to some degree, and I can't say that any of them match your description. Not only is your sweeping generalization inaccurate, but it's also a venomous insult to dozens of people whom I consider friends, and that's hurtful to me. The Christians I know are for the most part caring, intelligent, and open-minded people; they just have a few hangups. But who doesn't? I remember being a fundamentalist very clearly, but I was never devious, slimy, or emotionally manipulative, at least not intentionally. I was just misguided. The same seems true for pretty much every Christian I talk with on a regular basis. I'm sure you've had enough preaching to last a hundred lifetimes, but I really don't think your perspective is healthy. First of all, I can only imagine that remaining bitter and paranoid can only hurt you in the long run. Secondly, by lashing out against evangelicals, might you not be evoking the very kind of behavior you expect to see in the first place? I don't doubt that you'll take my comments as an affront, but I think they're appropriate considering you just demonstrated utter contempt for most of the people I care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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