Fonkey Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 South Park Richard Dawkins Nice avatar Fonkey. I so wish I thought of that first. Thanks! I just wish I could find an image of him smiling; I don't want to come across as a bellicose and sour-faced man (even if I am one!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I'm sure you've had incredibly painful experiences with evangelical Christianity, but I feel that I can't just let your comments slide. Your description of evangelicals rivals some of the worst caricatures of atheists I've heard from fundamentalist militants, not only in their vindictiveness, but also in their short-sightedness. Pretty much EVERYONE I know (with only a handful of exceptions) is an evangelical Christian to some degree, and I can't say that any of them match your description. Not only is your sweeping generalization inaccurate, but it's also a venomous insult to dozens of people whom I consider friends, and that's hurtful to me. The Christians I know are for the most part caring, intelligent, and open-minded people; they just have a few hangups. But who doesn't? I remember being a fundamentalist very clearly, but I was never devious, slimy, or emotionally manipulative, at least not intentionally. I was just misguided. The same seems true for pretty much every Christian I talk with on a regular basis. I'm sure you've had enough preaching to last a hundred lifetimes, but I really don't think your perspective is healthy. First of all, I can only imagine that remaining bitter and paranoid can only hurt you in the long run. Secondly, by lashing out against evangelicals, might you not be evoking the very kind of behavior you expect to see in the first place? I don't doubt that you'll take my comments as an affront, but I think they're appropriate considering you just demonstrated utter contempt for most of the people I care about. A brief expansion to what Mr Dawkins said. If an atheist act very intolerant of the religious, than that person is not only sinking to their level but also enforcing the stereotype that all atheists are hateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonkey Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 A brief expansion to what Mr Dawkins said. If an atheist act very intolerant of the religious, than that person is not only sinking to their level but also enforcing the stereotype that all atheists are hateful. Did Richard Dawkins really say that? When and where was that? I find it surprising, because he often acts rather petty and insulting for my taste. He's a brilliant scientist though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thompson Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Did Richard Dawkins really say that? No dude, you did. I refered to you as Dawkins because of the awesome avvie. I was just expanding something you touched on in your lecture but never fully explored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonkey Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Oh, ha ha, OK. Thanks for your contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I'm sure you've had incredibly painful experiences with evangelical Christianity, but I feel that I can't just let your comments slide. Your description of evangelicals rivals some of the worst caricatures of atheists I've heard from fundamentalist militants, not only in their vindictiveness, but also in their short-sightedness. Pretty much EVERYONE I know (with only a handful of exceptions) is an evangelical Christian to some degree, and I can't say that any of them match your description. Not only is your sweeping generalization inaccurate, but it's also a venomous insult to dozens of people whom I consider friends, and that's hurtful to me. The Christians I know are for the most part caring, intelligent, and open-minded people; they just have a few hangups. But who doesn't? I remember being a fundamentalist very clearly, but I was never devious, slimy, or emotionally manipulative, at least not intentionally. I was just misguided. The same seems true for pretty much every Christian I talk with on a regular basis. I'm sure you've had enough preaching to last a hundred lifetimes, but I really don't think your perspective is healthy. First of all, I can only imagine that remaining bitter and paranoid can only hurt you in the long run. Secondly, by lashing out against evangelicals, might you not be evoking the very kind of behavior you expect to see in the first place? I don't doubt that you'll take my comments as an affront, but I think they're appropriate considering you just demonstrated utter contempt for most of the people I care about. My description of evangelicals is based on what I have experienced of them. While I find it refreshing that those evangelicals around you do not fit the reality of the ones in my own lifetime, I cannot neither apologize for, disregard, or lie about what I have in fact experienced. Nor can I apologize for having the impression I do, based on said experiences. Perhaps the evangelicals you know do not fit my description. The ones I have known do, without exception. That's the way it is. (Maybe it's a weird regionalism, I don't know.) Given what I have experienced personally, I think my mistrust of evangelicals is more than justified, regardless of whether anyone else agrees with me or not. I do not begrudge you your need to speak up and respond to my intial post; nor does it particularly affront me. Understand that my position is borne of experience, and will not change until the day when I encounter an evangelical who does in fact turn out to be a decent human being. If you wish to regard this as the sad way that my mind works, and pity me for it, be my guest. I will only ever do what I can, and only ever do what I need. I honestly am glad, by the way, that the evangelicals around you aren't the horrible people I knew. I wouldn't wish those people on anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonkey Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 My description of evangelicals is based on what I have experienced of them. While I find it refreshing that those evangelicals around you do not fit the reality of the ones in my own lifetime, I cannot neither apologize for, disregard, or lie about what I have in fact experienced. Nor can I apologize for having the impression I do, based on said experiences. Perhaps the evangelicals you know do not fit my description. The ones I have known do, without exception. That's the way it is. (Maybe it's a weird regionalism, I don't know.) Given what I have experienced personally, I think my mistrust of evangelicals is more than justified, regardless of whether anyone else agrees with me or not. I do not begrudge you your need to speak up and respond to my intial post; nor does it particularly affront me. Understand that my position is borne of experience, and will not change until the day when I encounter an evangelical who does in fact turn out to be a decent human being. If you wish to regard this as the sad way that my mind works, and pity me for it, be my guest. I will only ever do what I can, and only ever do what I need. I honestly am glad, by the way, that the evangelicals around you aren't the horrible people I knew. I wouldn't wish those people on anybody. Thanks for being so understanding! You're right, there's no need for you to apologize for your experiences, and I understand that your perspective came from your own personal history. My issue was with the way your experiences were presented as universally true facts. Furthermore, as I believe I already pointed out, I don't think it's healthy to maintain an angry and bitter attitude about one's past experiences, which is something I see a lot of around here (research shows that catharsis has adverse effects on a person's emotional health). You are probably very right about regional differences (I live in Canada), and my experiences have certainly been different from yours. For example, today I was talking with an evangelical girl I know and she said she really enjoys hanging around with gay guys, and she really missed her gay friends. Another evangelical friends of mine has a gay cousin, and has worked with gay people, but I have never heard her say anything spiteful about them. As far as I can tell, she's good friends with both. Yet another friend of mine evangelical knew a transsexual, and said she had a very interesting experience hearing about his perspectives (this same friend recently got offended when I jokingly referred to homosexuals as "fags"). These people are all completely evangelical, and in some cases fundamentalist (ie literal interpretation of the Bible). I'm sorry the Christians you have known have been such terrible people. I have certainly met the kinds of people you are talking about, although I guess I am fortunate in that there are Christians around who are more open and accepting. So the fact that most of the Christians I know are reasonable people is largely a result of my own choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Thanks for being so understanding! <snippage> Thanks, Fonkey. Y'know, I read what I wrote earlier, and even though it's a genuine reaction borne of genuine experience, I shouldn't present my experience as if it's universal. It isn't. You and your friends are evidence that it isn't, and I'm glad for that. I wouldn't wish the evangelicals I've experienced on anybody; and I realize that my POV is very cynical because of what kinds of evangelicals I've had to deal with over my lifetime. I suppose I came on as strongly as I did primarily because I really don't want to see anybody else go through what I did. Fwiw, it honestly isn't all Xians I've known that have been so awful, it's mainly the evangelicals - and of those, mainly the Born-Agains - although I'll confess that for a long time I kind of lumped every Xian into the same pile because of the various crap that happened. It's taken me awhile to realize that isn't really right, or realistic. If I'm paranoid about it, it's purely a self-protective measure. Your evangelical friends sound like very decent human beings. That's no bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted April 14, 2007 Author Share Posted April 14, 2007 I didn't go eat lunch with him, surprisingingly in class even though I was near him he didn't even talk to me, I don't know, maybe he forgot. Well I got 2 weeks left of classes so there's a slight chance I still may eat with him but I don't really know, I don't feel like I missed out on anyihing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 I agree with everyone here that he is probably just out to convert you...it certainly would have been my purpose had I invited you to lunch during my days as a fundy. In fact I had friends who regularly engaged in this type of evangelism. I believe they called it "process evangelism" or something stupid like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Evangelicals are some of the most slimy, slippery, saccharine, devious, emotionally manipulative bastards on the planet. I would bet ready money that his friendliness is not genuine, but is either a variation on friendship evangelism, or perhaps a form of love-bombing. Chances are extremely good (unfortunately) that he is not actually interested in getting to know you simply because you are an interesting human being in your own right. It is more likely that he has ulterior motives, and only seeks to get to know you because he's looking for weaknesses, spots in your psyche where you are allegedly vulnerable, into which he can slip his own religion. I'm sure you've had incredibly painful experiences with evangelical Christianity, but I feel that I can't just let your comments slide. Your description of evangelicals rivals some of the worst caricatures of atheists I've heard from fundamentalist militants, not only in their vindictiveness, but also in their short-sightedness. The terms "lovebombing" and "friendship evangelism" are actual terms used by Christians where I am from. Those were the ways we self-described our evangelism style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Is it possible that it's mainly American Christians who act like that? I've been overseas (was an exchange student in Germany) and the Christians I knew seemed rational and didn't try to convert anyone when I was with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Is it possible that it's mainly American Christians who act like that? I've been overseas (was an exchange student in Germany) and the Christians I knew seemed rational and didn't try to convert anyone when I was with them. Speaking for Germany, yeah, most of "us" are very tolerant. The exceptions are almost always zombies of some US-imported cult like jw or the morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluewizard Posted April 15, 2007 Author Share Posted April 15, 2007 Well, hopefully the US will be more tolerant of relgiious beliefs 50 years from now, I tihnk Evangelism is on its way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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