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Goodbye Jesus

Something from nothing


Druid

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When people use the agruement:

You cann't create something from nothing. Therefore god created it.

 

What do they mean? What did god create all this stuff from?

 

Surely not nothing.

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Goodbye Jesus

If you beleive what the Bible says, then God really did create everything out of nothing. Man was created out of dust (a little symbolic, aint it?), but everything else was created ex nihilo or "out of nothing". Throughout the ages when man has been around, we have never been successful in creating anything out of nothing. That is at least part of God's greatness, and why he is God: He can create stuff out of nothing.

Scientifically, that makes no sense. But by definition, a god is all-powerful, and would not be a god if he couldnt do anything.

 

There is an old saying:

"Could God create a rock so heavy that he couldnt pick it up?" ... "Yes, but then he would pick it up." And while this saying is not necessarily meant to be taken literally, it does help illustrate God's power.

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When they say you can't create something from nothing.

 

That applies to the rules of this universe. God inspired the creation of the universe (not Biblegod). So whatever rules exist for this supreme being....if there are any; aren't rules we as creations and inhabitants of this universe are cabable of understanding yet.

 

Someday, maybe. :grin:

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When people use the agruement:

You cann't create something from nothing. Therefore god created it.

 

What do they mean? What did god create all this stuff from?

 

Surely not nothing.

 

I agree.

 

And the argument that there was something or nothing before the big bang is in itself an assertion that can't currently be proven either way.

 

So it frustrates me when the argument goes like this:

 

1. Universe came from nothing

2. Universe can’t come from nothing

3. So God created the Universe from nothing

 

The error is already in the firsts step. They claim that we think the universe came from nothing, and we’re wrong, so it must come from something. I never thought the universe came from nothing, I even believe there are an infinite multi-universe. So why would this “Nothing” argument compel me, when I don’t know what was before the Big Bang. It was something; well that doesn’t automatically imply God Something.

 

It’s interesting that speed, space and time are connected, so when you compress the whole universe to one single point. Time is expanded, so time doesn’t exist. Basically you could have an infinite time, because time doesn’t exist. Space doesn’t exist either, so you have no space, but something does exists, we just can’t explain what it is. It’s even beyond our imagination.

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If you beleive what the Bible says, then God really did create everything out of nothing. 

Which is ok.

 

Man was created out of dust (a little symbolic, aint it?), but everything else was created ex nihilo or "out of nothing".  Throughout the ages when man has been around, we have never been successful in creating anything out of nothing.  That is at least part of God's greatness, and why he is God:  He can create stuff out of nothing.

And the discussion we have with some Christians is that the Universe came from Nothing, and it can’t come from Nothing, so God must have made it. It is only the Bible the demands the thought that there was nothing before the Universe. Now, that would of course trigger the Kalam Cosmological Argument debate again. And then we get to, does it mean there is an Intentional Cause or just an Accidental Cause.

 

Scientifically, that makes no sense.  But by definition, a god is all-powerful, and would not be a god if he couldnt do anything.

To be able to do anything means that he is stronger than himself, like you prove down below.

 

Can anything be stronger and larger than himself?

 

Is God the highest begin that exists? And yet he’s higher than himself?

If you reverse that, it also means that he is also smaller than himself.

So he’s is everything and nothing.

 

  There is an old saying:

"Could God create a rock so heavy that he couldnt pick it up?" ... "Yes, but then he would pick it up."  And while this saying is not necessarily meant to be taken literally, it does help illustrate God's power.

That proves God is the paradox and the contradiction itself.

God encompasses everything, even himself, but yet He exists outside himself.

He’s more powerful than himself, and he’s yet weaker than himself.

He can think of everything and know every action he will take, yet he can chose to contradict his own prophetic word, and hence nullify his own prophesy and make himself a liar.

God has the power to lie, steal, rob, murder at a whim, and not only the power but he encompasses the will of doing so. Yet he is omni-benevolent and still ignorant.

He is the zero, nothing and one.

He is and he is not.

 

All of it comes to the point of:

He who is ignorant is blessed and doesn’t have to worry.

He who doesn’t care and see God as unimportant will see heaven.

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More and more I start to believe that, If God exists, we are his dream, not his creation.

It’s just a frigging nightmare, and when he wakes up. Poof! The world will be gone!

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I never thought the universe came from nothing, I even believe there are an infinite multi-universe.

 

This is Inflation Theory. If you are interested.

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That proves God is the paradox and the contradiction itself.

God encompasses everything, even himself, but yet He exists outside himself.

He’s more powerful than himself, and he’s yet weaker than himself.

He can think of everything and know every action he will take, yet he can chose to contradict his own prophetic word, and hence nullify his own prophesy and make himself a liar.

God has the power to lie, steal, rob, murder at a whim, and not only the power but he encompasses the will of doing so. Yet he is omni-benevolent and still ignorant.

He is the zero, nothing and one.

He is and he is not.

 

All of it comes to the point of:

He who is ignorant is blessed and doesn’t have to worry.

He who doesn’t care and see God as unimportant will see heaven.

 

 

I said not to take that quote literally, it is merely imagery to help the mind comprehend what it never will never fully understand. The nature of God is such that one will never know everything about him. The theology regarding what God can and can not do is confusing and complicated, and i am not able to explain it well enough. I would suggest that you do other research, if you are truly interested in learning what Christians beleive about this aspect of God.

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Why are you worshipping something you can never know or understand? Wouldn't it make as much sense to just leave whatever it is alone?

 

I find it amusing that so many claim to have "relationships" with something they admit to never being able to know or understand. :shrug:

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This is Inflation Theory. If you are interested.

Well, in a sense, actually I believe a bit in the new brane theory, with multiple universes colliding and creating cascades of energy. It's a possible explanation. It even can explain the dual nature of light.

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Well, in a sense, actually I believe a bit in the new brane theory, with multiple universes colliding and creating cascades of energy. It's a possible explanation. It even can explain the dual nature of light.

 

Does it have a name? I'd be interested in the explaination of wave-particle duality.

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I said not to take that quote literally, it is merely imagery to help the mind comprehend what it never will never fully understand.

No, I agree. I didn’t mean it sound like I was contradicting you, or arguing against you.

I took your message and made a spin-off.

 

The concept of God is full of contradictions and paradoxes, and so is it to not believe in God. Life and our existence is a contradiction in itself.

 

The nature of God is such that one will never know everything about him.

Thank you. I already start to like you. That is absolutely correct. The only difference I add to an expression like that is “If God exist, no one will know everything about him.”

 

Just the Concept of a god is too intricate and complicated for us ever understand.

 

  The theology regarding what God can and can not do is confusing and complicated, and i am not able to explain it well enough.  I would suggest that you do other research, if you are truly interested in learning what Christians beleive about this aspect of God.

Oh, I did 30+ years. I was hardcore man. I went to bible school and mission trips, teaching in Christian school, attending prayer meetings, singing and laughing in the holy spirit, casting out demons, blessing people, getting blessings uncountable times, read the bible many times over, memorized verses, studied different theologies, studied religious history, speaking in tongues … my list is very long.

 

I’ve been in debates before, but I used to be on your side.

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What do they mean? What did god create all this stuff from?

 

Surely not nothing.

 

I don't disagree. I think our universe was born out of the remnants of another pre-existing universe that died, kind of like the pheonix legend, and that the death-rebirth cycle is infinite.

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Does it have a name? I'd be interested in the explaination of wave-particle duality.

It's called the Brane Theory or Ekpyrotic Model:

 

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astr...e_010413-1.html

 

I don't know if this one mention the duality of light, but I saw it somewhere that it maybe could be an explanation.

 

It's just a hypothesis right now anyway, but I think it's totally possible.

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Why are you worshipping something you can never know or understand?  Wouldn't it make as much sense to just leave whatever it is alone?

 

I find it amusing that so many claim to have "relationships" with something they admit to never being able to know or understand. :shrug:

 

In a friendship, does each friend know everything about the other? No, but that does not mean that that friendship is worthless, or even unusual. Nobody knows everything about anybody. :D

I am not God's equal, and i shall never know everything about Him or his nature.

 

[edit]

 

HanSolo:

It sounds like you would have a very interesting testimony, could you give me a link to a testimony you may have already submitted? If you havent, could you pm or email me one? my email is aaryn101@yahoo.com .

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It's called the Brane Theory or Ekpyrotic Model:

 

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astr...e_010413-1.html

 

I don't know if this one mention the duality of light, but I saw it somewhere that it maybe could be an explanation.

 

It's just a hypothesis right now anyway, but I think it's totally possible.

 

I love the "It's almost crazy enough to be correct" quote. Brilliant!!!

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In a friendship, does each friend know everything about the other?  No, but that does not mean that that friendship is worthless, or even unusual.  Nobody knows everything about anybody.  :D

  I am not God's equal, and i shall never know everything about Him or his nature.

 

But do you know anything about God? You believe certain things, but the proof of what god is like from these things (the bible, nature, experience) doesn't exactly put him in the best light.

 

Friendships happen between equals. Servitude happens between non-equals. Why should I bind myself to such a "relationship"? Especially to someone who will never be able to explain him/herself to me.

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But do you know anything about God?  You believe certain things, but the proof of what god is like from these things (the bible, nature, experience) doesn't exactly put him in the best light. 

 

Friendships happen between equals.  Servitude happens between non-equals.  Why should I bind myself to such a "relationship"?  Especially to someone who will never be able to explain him/herself to me.

 

A master can have a friendship bond with his slave, even though in the case of me and God... i am not a slave. I have chosen to live my life for God, and i am still able to walk away from that. But i do not, because i love my Lord.

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HanSolo:

It sounds like you would have a very interesting testimony, could you give me a link to a testimony you may have already submitted?  If you havent, could you pm or email me one?  my email is aaryn101@yahoo.com  .

There is a partial in one of the threads, I think it's named HanSolo or something. It was a thread started by another member, becuase he wanted to know.

I have so far not been able to write down a complete testimony, of different reasons. One is that is took a great emotional effort to write the part I did.

 

But anyhow. Read it, but understand it's just a part of a much bigger picture.

 

I'm actually very happy to be an apostate and belong to this great group of people. This site has been a true joy the last month.

 

[edit]

Oh, and I really don't want to sound like I'm something special, because I'm truly not. Most of the time I wish I just could move to a little cottage somewhere and live outside society and stress. But it can't happen anymore.

 

[edit]

Sorry, that was a little bit overly dramatic. I just finished some chick flick with some half sad ending, so I probably just was in the mood for the melodramatic.

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A master can have a friendship bond with his slave, even though in the case of me and God... i am not a slave.  I have chosen to live my life for God, and i am still able to walk away from that.  But i do not, because i love my Lord.

 

A lot of what you've stated here is quite un-biblical.

 

According to the bible, you can't choose God. God has to choose you first.

 

Also, according to the Bible, if you are chosen, you can not walk away.

 

So, according to the Bible, what you've stated above is a lie, and therefore, you are of your father, the Devil.

 

 

Yes, I know, you're screwed either way...

 

But look on the bright side, you still have your faith. :shrug:

 

 

:Doh:

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A master can have a friendship bond with his slave, even though in the case of me and God... i am not a slave.  I have chosen to live my life for God, and i am still able to walk away from that.  But i do not, because i love my Lord.

 

1. A true friend would not enslave his friends.

 

2. The bible contradicts everything else you have just said. Are you not a bible believing christian then?

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1.  A true friend would not enslave his friends.

 

2.  The bible contradicts everything else you have just said.  Are you not a bible believing christian then?

"I'm sorry, but I'm not familiar with the biblical verses that cause my above statements to be in contradiction with The Word of God. Would you please be so kind as to provide them for me?"
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Man was created out of dust (a little symbolic, aint it?), but everything else was created ex nihilo or "out of nothing". 

 

Yesterday when I finished up the book of Job I finally learned EXACTLY how were humans were formed.

 

NKJV

Job 10:8 "Your hands have made me and fashioned me, an intricate unity; yet You would destroy me. Remember I pray, that You have made me like clay, and will You turn me into dust again? Did You not pour me out like milk, and curdle me like cheese, clothe me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with with bones and sinews?"

 

I waited for God to tell Job from the whirlwind how babies really are formed but he didnt :( so he must have liked his wisdom on that one. I guess my Mommy lied to me when she told me the "truth".

 

The book of Job added another 5% to my almost Athiest, God is loosing this battle before I can even finished the whole bible.

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:lmao:
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