Is The Military A Cult?

[Wendybabe]

Two guys approach someone in a parking lot, "Hi!" "Can we ask you some questions?" Sounds like a cult tactic right! But this is one also used by the military. Has anyone ever been in the U.S. military? What were your experiences? Cultic? or just a very intense club?

[Jun]

Is this to be restricted to the U.S. military?

[HuaiDan]

Two guys approach someone in a parking lot, "Hi!" "Can we ask you some questions?" Sounds like a cult tactic right! But this is one also used by the military. Has anyone ever been in the U.S. military? What were your experiences? Cultic? or just a very intense club?

I think you should subclassify your question. Do you want to hear about recruitment? Indoctrination? Functions/roles? organization?

[HuaiDan]

I remember 2 days into bootcamp there was an indoctrination rally, hundreds of recruits inside this large hangar type building, given hours of fight til you die for your country speeches, and then led in a zieg-heil kind of moment "Are you ready to die for your country?"

 

Honest to god, i was the only one I know of who wasn't fisting the air shouting ho-ha's. I was afraid of a repraisal for days but it never came. At the time I was thinking i could be more useful if I lived for my country.

[Wendybabe]

Any and all contributions greatly appreciated!!!!!

 

 

I guess I should add, my husband was involved in a real goofy church once. He said all the single men lived together and single women together in apartments. Leaders would pop by unanounced for inspections! One time his bed wasn't made so he was in trouble!

[HuaiDan]

Any and all contributions greatly appreciated!!!!!

 

 

I guess I should add, my husband was involved in a real goofy church once. He said all the single men lived together and single women together in apartments. Leaders would pop by unanounced for inspections! One time his bed wasn't made so he was in trouble!

I could see that as being a way to keep the woman isolated as breeding stock.

[Jun]

I was in the militray in Oz for a time (army) after leaving school. It wasn't "cultish" so much as a big men's club. Ozzies don't take their military nearly as seriously as the U.S. does. It's all pretty laid back, pretty much like the Boy Scouts with guns.

 

I train now (as a civilian) with the JGSDF. Now Japan takes their military very seriously. Again though, I don't think it is "cultish" in any way.

[Brother Jeff]

In the broadest sense of the word, yes, the military is a cult.

 

I joined the Army in 1996. I arrived at Ft. Benning, GA for Basic Training in August, and within five minutes of my arrival I realized that my recruiters had lied to me in more ways than one and that I had made a horrible mistake. Our drill sergeants lied to us on at least one occasion about what was going on in the real, outside world. It didn't take long at all for me to realize that I was NOT cut out for military life. I spent ten very long, incredibly miserable weeks there. I got sent home because I couldn't run very far because some asshole came to Basic with bronchitis and I got a very bad case of it that left me with a lot of shit in my lungs. My vision also has never been all that great, and I couldn't fire a rifle to their satisfaction. Murderers on Death Row are treated better than recruits in basic training are. I got really tired of being treated like shit - worse than a murderer! - because I made the mistake of signing on the dotted line to serve my country. The happiest day of my life was November 4, 1996 - the day I got out of that hellhole and came home.

 

But yes, the military is a cult - obviously not a religious cult, but a cult nonetheless.

[Heimdall]

Hmmm, how do I approach this? I spent nearly a quarter of a century in the U.S. Air Force (24 years, 3 months and 7 days to be exact), so I guess I have a bit of an insight into what the military is or isn’t. A cult is basically described as -

1 : formal religious veneration

2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

So let me tell you, the closest the military gets to religion is the very colorful, original and non-repetitive “taking the Lord’s name in vain” that all military men and women are quite versed in!

The military and cults do have a few traits in common, but their reasons for these traits have nothing in common. Cults demand strict obedience of it’s members to the cult’s dogma, this is because control of the member’s insures the continued existence of the cult. The military demands strict obedience of its members to the orders of superiors because obedience of the individuals serves to insure the survival in combat of the unit and the individuals that make up the unit. Cults insure this obedience through fear of eternal damnation. The military insures this obedience through intense training. Cults train for death, the military trains for life. I could continue, but I think you see what I mean. Discouragement of individual thought does not make a cult, it is the reason for the discouragement that separates cults from other organizations. - Heimdall

[Former Follier]

Is the military a cult? In my opinion it is not. It does, however, harbor a couple cults and even encourages their growth. The military, as an extension of the government, is supposed to be non-religious. Having said that, chapel and religious conversation is not only supported, it's encouraged.

 

Now, naturally there are five branches of the U.S. Military and there are numerous job classifications within each branch so there is no way I can make a generalization that all branched condone religiosity but the MOSs that I held in the Army (11B and 31B) were both jobs where prayer and worship was advocated. Of course, most military religious services are incredibly watered down, generic versions of the true form of itself. There is little to no fundamentalism in the military.

 

Also, the "no atheists in foxholes" cliche is a rather unfair assumption. There are many of us who break that mold.

[Luke Wolf]

I guess you can consider a religionless cult.

[twincats]

I spent 8 years of my misspent youth in the USAF (1979 – 1987) It was not, in my experience even vaguely cult like. You have to take it for what it's worth, though, 20 years out of date.

 

My recruiter told me that after basic training and tech school, it would pretty much be like having any other job except you wear a uniform. He was pretty much right on the money there. The only other exception I would note is that they will house you wherever you go. I lived in dorms and off base apartments, but never got to experience base housing, as I wasn’t married at the time. I've heard stories about base housing, few of them good.

 

I have heard that the USAF academy is heavily evangelical Christian, though.

[Piprus]

I served in the US Navy in the early '70s. I never at any time got the impression that it was a cult, but it is a different type of culture. Some of my compatriots hated the military life, some really liked it and determined to "ship over" and make a career of it, and most were like me. Served with pride and honor, accepted the military rules and regs, and the sometimes petty stuff that goes with it, but no wish to make a life work of it. Overall, I've always considered my years in uniform a good life experience.

[Casey]

I remember 2 days into bootcamp there was an indoctrination rally, hundreds of recruits inside this large hangar type building, given hours of fight til you die for your country speeches, and then led in a zieg-heil kind of moment "Are you ready to die for your country?"

 

Honest to god, i was the only one I know of who wasn't fisting the air shouting ho-ha's. I was afraid of a repraisal for days but it never came. At the time I was thinking i could be more useful if I lived for my country.

 

Wasn't it the famous (or infamous) Blood an' Guts Patton who said something like, "The objective in war is not to die for your country; it's to make the other son-of-a-bitch die for his?

Casey

[HuaiDan]

I would hardly call the USAF or Navy military though. Even though technically the are military, I mean, c'mon, did you guys have to do pushups or anything?

[HuaiDan]

I remember 2 days into bootcamp there was an indoctrination rally, hundreds of recruits inside this large hangar type building, given hours of fight til you die for your country speeches, and then led in a zieg-heil kind of moment "Are you ready to die for your country?"

 

Honest to god, i was the only one I know of who wasn't fisting the air shouting ho-ha's. I was afraid of a repraisal for days but it never came. At the time I was thinking i could be more useful if I lived for my country.

 

Wasn't it the famous (or infamous) Blood an' Guts Patton who said something like, "The objective in war is not to die for your country; it's to make the other son-of-a-bitch die for his?

Casey

Abso-friggin-lutely. That's what I was thinking. I was gung-ho, ready to take my lumps in boot camp and be a super soldier......and then they pulled that shit on me. It ruined the whole next 6 years for me I think. I realized pretty much what they were doing was mass brain-washing, destroying even the will to survive so one can integrate completely into the obedient mass, and do so willingly. That's what I got for going enlisted. If I tried the officer's corps, I'm sure my experience might have been a bit different.

[Casey]

If I tried the officer's corps, I'm sure my experience might have been a bit different.

 

Oh, I don't know so much. I think (I'm only guessing here) that the US took a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book here somewhere down the line. In the Red Army of WW2 an Infantryman was usually not even referred to as a "man" or a "soldier". Soviet Generals of Infantry would, if they were asked the strength of their Divisions, reply with the chilling phrase, "My Division has (so many) Bayonets". Veterans (some highly decorated) often remembered this with great bitterness, which is understandable. It may have been different for Guards Infantry Divisions; these were accorded a certain amount of extra privileges, but who knows?

 

The thinking was, of course, that where you have a large subservient population subject to conscription, it is not any great difficulty to procure more Infantry. If they cannot be had by turning out the common jail of the nearest city, they may be taken from the nearest gutter. Tanks and aircraft though, were a different story as these cost money and resources to manufacture. Thus it was cynically said in the Red Army at the time, "Tovarisch, if you lose Infantry you have lost nothing, but if you lose Tanks it means at least the Punishment Battalions .. or the salt mines!"

 

That's not of course the result so much of the military's being a cult as it is of its leadership thinking like Cheap Charlies. However, if this present war escalates, or, if Gawd forbid, the US resorts to conscription, who is to say it won't happen again?

Casey

[Heimdall]

I would hardly call the USAF or Navy military though. Even though technically the are military, I mean, c'mon, did you guys have to do pushups or anything?

Oh, I don't know...Does 20 mile runs in full feild gear count? the Air Force has changed immensly. Our troops can take on the Army and win and the Marines and fight them to a near draw. My Cops (I am the Security programs manager for the Security Forces unit here) can hold their own with the Marines and our special teams train with the Seals and Rangers. We are definitely military! I don't know about the Navy, but I have an idea they are about the same now. After all, gone are the days where we could depend on the Marines or Army to defend our bases, we are battle trained and battle hardened (the Air Force does most of the convoy escort duty in Iraq and we have Airmen embedded in Army and Marine units taking up the slack all over the world, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan) and willing to make the supreme sacrifice for our people. Most of the Civil Service (including the women) on Air Bases are retired military and we try to keep up with the young whippersnappers...Hell, just look at Dave's photos and he isn't even around the military much anymore! I'll admit that at 65 I have a hard time keeping up and that I can't do a lot of the things I used to (I was battle trained as a member of the Airlift Command Element that dropped into enemy territory and set up fronline airbases to bring the fight to the enemy), but I still do what I can. Hardly military? You wish! - Heimdall

[Vixentrox]

Air Force here. I don't know about calling it a "cult" but there is some brainwashing that goes on to take you from civilian mindset to a military mindset. They don't drain your bank account like a cult though!

[woodsmoke]

That's not of course the result so much of the military's being a cult as it is of its leadership thinking like Cheap Charlies. However, if this present war escalates, or, if Gawd forbid, the US resorts to conscription, who is to say it won't happen again?

Casey

 

I think, with the way the war is going now, Bush and his advisers know starting to call out our selective service numbers would almost certainly lead to a nation-wide revolt. Or at least such a massive exodus across national borders as to make the draft dodgers in the '60s look like a few kids jumping a fence in comparison.

[HuaiDan]

I would hardly call the USAF or Navy military though. Even though technically the are military, I mean, c'mon, did you guys have to do pushups or anything?

Oh, I don't know...Does 20 mile runs in full feild gear count? the Air Force has changed immensly. Our troops can take on the Army and win and the Marines and fight them to a near draw. My Cops (I am the Security programs manager for the Security Forces unit here) can hold their own with the Marines and our special teams train with the Seals and Rangers. We are definitely military! I don't know about the Navy, but I have an idea they are about the same now. After all, gone are the days where we could depend on the Marines or Army to defend our bases, we are battle trained and battle hardened (the Air Force does most of the convoy escort duty in Iraq and we have Airmen embedded in Army and Marine units taking up the slack all over the world, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan) and willing to make the supreme sacrifice for our people. Most of the Civil Service (including the women) on Air Bases are retired military and we try to keep up with the young whippersnappers...Hell, just look at Dave's photos and he isn't even around the military much anymore! I'll admit that at 65 I have a hard time keeping up and that I can't do a lot of the things I used to (I was battle trained as a member of the Airlift Command Element that dropped into enemy territory and set up fronline airbases to bring the fight to the enemy), but I still do what I can. Hardly military? You wish! - Heimdall

Yeah, that's the kind of response I'd expect from a flyboy.

 

Had I said the same about a marine, the response might have burned out my monitor.

 

Seriously, I only went through a lot of that kind of training in boot camp. I was part of a hospital unit, and a weekend warrior at that. Most of my extreme sporting was strictly voluntary.

[Heimdall]

Yeah, that's the kind of response I'd expect from a flyboy.

Ahem, that's "Flyboy, Sir!"...LOL

 

Had I said the same about a marine, the response might have burned out my monitor.

Boy have you got that right. I have a friend (actually he was my brother's friend) who is a retired Marine and woe to he that speaks disparagingly of the Corps! - Heimdall

[twincats]

I used to think that the Marines were pretty much a cult when I was in the AF. But there was nothing religious about it...

 

They had all sorts of um, shall we say traditions that they upheld in the dorms at DLI in Monterey such as the Sunday afternoon GI party (dorm cleaning) which always ended with up with one poor slob being carried by four other guys to the dumpster, throwing said poor slob into the dumpster, closing the lid and banging on said dumpster for a few minutes. I have photos of this fascinating ritual.

 

They also had a funny little circle dance they'd do regularly at the NCO/EM club. Once, I even observed (through the dorm windows that they never seemed to close the curtains of ) a sort of exercise where the Marines would hunt each other down and raid one another's rooms while in their underwear.

 

Plus, there was that habit they had of yelling "Semper Fi!!" at random intervals for what seemed like no good reason.

[Heimdall]

DLI...What language? I am an old Yale Mandarin troop myself..class of '61. I am assuming that you were a member of the linear descendent of the old U.S.A.F. Security Service (the new name seems to change everytime you turn around and I can't keep track of it)? - Heimdall

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

I would hardly call the USAF or Navy military though. Even though technically the are military, I mean, c'mon, did you guys have to do pushups or anything?

 

Only in Boot Camp. Hell, they even let us shoot a gun there. It was a .45 modified to shoot .22 rounds, but it was still a gun! They were even scared about letting us do it. So much so that if you didn't stand and fire exactly as told, you were tackled and had the gun wrestled from your hand.

 

As for the military being a cult, no, I don't think it is a cult. Cults use some boot camp like tactics because boot camp is intended to make the recruits come together and work as a team...exactly what cults want their followers to do.

 

I do believe the military is far too conservative in their methods though. For instance, men cannot wear earrings, but women can. If a woman can wear earrings without it being a safety issue, why can a man not? Hair styles...women can have hair to their shoulders yet men cannot. If a woman can have long hair without it being a safety issue, why can a man not? It's all just tradition held over from a less enlightened age.