Asatru

[Thurisaz]

Wanted to do this for quite some time, finally remember it right in front of my puter...

 

...so, you hear the term Asatru, what goes through your mind? Anything you'd like to point out or ask about that bizarre heathen faith I adhere to?

 

(I'm definitely not the best person to ask something about this religion, but heck with it, I'll try )

[Mankey]

Wanted to do this for quite some time, finally remember it right in front of my puter...

 

...so, you hear the term Asatru, what goes through your mind? Anything you'd like to point out or ask about that bizarre heathen faith I adhere to?

 

(I'm definitely not the best person to ask something about this religion, but heck with it, I'll try )

I fear all superstitions. I fear my own irrationality too. Mankeys period are scary to me. We scare me.

 

1) What does Asatru teach about the here and now?

 

2) What are its attitudes about science?

 

3) Compassion and altruism?

 

4) Discriminating with a sincere concern for the greater good?

 

5) Openmindedness? How dynamic is Asatru in changing a life philosophy if changes are necessary?

 

Not ment to be flame bait....but for some reason I ASSume that you believe in it yet do not believe in it. If you know what I mean.

[Jun]

Wanted to do this for quite some time, finally remember it right in front of my puter...

 

...so, you hear the term Asatru, what goes through your mind? Anything you'd like to point out or ask about that bizarre heathen faith I adhere to?

 

(I'm definitely not the best person to ask something about this religion, but heck with it, I'll try )

 

Honestly, I have no idea. I looked it up in Wiki, where it states:

 

 

Ásatrú (Icelandic for "Æsir faith", pronounced [auːsatruː], in Old Norse [aːsatruː]) is a polytheistic reconstructionism movement whose focus is reviving the Norse paganism of the Viking Age - as described in the Eddas - prior to the Christianization of Scandinavia.

 

Ásatrú was established in the 1960s and early 1970s in Iceland, by the Íslenska Ásatrúarfélagið, an organization founded by Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson. Ásatrú is a religion officially recognized by the governments of Iceland (since 1973), Norway (since 1994), Denmark (since 2003) and Sweden (since 2007). The United States government does not officially endorse or recognize any religious group, but numerous Ásatrú groups have been granted nonprofit religious status going back to the 1970s.

 

While the term Ásatrú as introduced in the 1970s referred specifically to the Icelandic adherents of the religion, Germanic neopagan and reconstructionist groups widely identify themselves as Ásatrú. In this wider sense, the term Ásatrú is used somewhat synonymously with Germanic neopaganism or Germanic paganism, along with the terms Forn Sed, Odinism, Heithni, Heathenry and others

 

Also from Wiki -

 

The core belief of the Asatru is the worship of the Norse gods as living, real, super-human entities. Ethics in Germanic neopaganism are guided by an elaborate concept of 'soul' and 'self’, personal ørlög or Wyrd and even luck. The belief in Wyrd - a concept of fatalism or determinism, similar to some Graeco-Roman concepts of destiny is a commonly held belief amongst most Germanic neopagans.

 

That quote puts it on par with Christianity in my book, sorry.

 

Somehow, Thurisaz, I don't think you worship the pagan gods as living entities.

[Grandpa Harley]

There are some features of it that put me in mind of some of the Thule Group's view on life the universe and everything...

 

There is certainly some pretty strange racial views in some of the sects I've seen online...

[Mankey]

There are some features of it that put me in mind of some of the Thule Group's view on life the universe and everything...

 

There is certainly some pretty strange racial views in some of the sects I've seen online...

I still hold that the majority of religions are faulty equipment and should be discarded...

 

Superstitious truth claims are a reckless abandonment of reason...and sometimes empathy. In cases.

[Jun]

Superstitious truth claims are a reckless abandonment of reason...and sometimes empathy.

 

Well said!

[Mankey]

Superstitious truth claims are a reckless abandonment of reason...and sometimes empathy.

 

Well said!

I can smell my own stink...at times....but when it comes to certain things I feel that once in a while I need to speak up.

 

I don't want to be pushy...but I feel that I must say something sometimes. I deeply feel for all Christian apostates. I am going to try to be open minded and compassionate. I have no real practice for these two. I am trying.

[Astreja]

I, personally, think that tales of the Æsir and Vanir are based on the exploits of real, mortal people in my family tree's distant past. Tribal leaders who led a migration from the eastern Mediterranean to Scandinavia several thousand years ago. (For some reason, Anatolia and the Etruscan people stand out in my mind when I think of a possible itinerary for the travellers.)

 

One of my favourite statements on morality and conduct comes out of the Hávamál:

Cattle die, kindred die,

Every man is mortal:

But the good name never dies

Of one who has done well

I take this as an admonition to do good by our descendants, not just our blood relatives but all those people who will inherit the world from us. They are our "immortality."

[Grandpa Harley]

Ignore me... I'm an arse!

[Mankey]

Ignore me... I'm an arse!

No.

 

...and no you are not...in my opinion.

 

We love you Grandpa Harley.

 

[Grandpa Harley]

Bless you... I was correcting something that I'd read wrong...

[Mankey]

Bless you... I was correcting something that I'd read wrong...

What did you read wrong?

[Jun]

Tribal leaders who led a migration from the eastern Mediterranean to Scandinavia several thousand years ago.

 

Is this based upon any known research or just a hunch/personal feeling?

[Ahh!]

I'm interested in learning more about it, just from a cultural pride stand point. Most of my ancestors would have been from the peoples that would have practiced the religions it's based off of. I've studied a little but not much. How do you study a religion like this? What resources are out there?

[Thurisaz]

Not ment to be flame bait....but for some reason I ASSume that you believe in it yet do not believe in it. If you know what I mean.

 

I think so. You want to say that I don't literally believe in everything Asatru lore offers.

 

You are right.

 

I do think that "the Divine" exists and that the deities of Asatru are good descriptions of its aspects/personalities. I have personal evidence of its existence (but I do realize that personal evidence means nothing to those who disagree ), but I do not claim that the Asatru creation myth, for example, is anything more than just that - a myth.

 

Is this roughly what you meant?

 

1) What does Asatru teach about the here and now?

 

2) What are its attitudes about science?

 

3) Compassion and altruism?

 

4) Discriminating with a sincere concern for the greater good?

 

5) Openmindedness? How dynamic is Asatru in changing a life philosophy if changes are necessary?

 

Before I adress all this, I'd like to stress what quite a few of the regulars here know already - there's no official central doctrine in Asatru. We all base our views and beliefs on the same raw material (mostly the Poetic Edda, plus diverse other sagas of old) but the conclusions we draw from studying them are strictly our personal domains. Disagreement may not always be welcome, but it's commonly accepted.

 

At least with all Asatruar I know more or less. I trust that somewhere there can be found what you could call Asatruar "fundies". Fortunately they are far away from me

(I guess the closest to fundies you could find among us are the "white supremacy" nutcases et al. As I see it, they don't know shit about what they talk about. If Asatru would just be the cliches in Viking flicks et cetera they might have some small points, but considering the entire stuff... Sorry Mr Neofascist, you want justification of your bigotry, go ahead... but you won't find it in here )

 

Now...

 

Ad 1. Well, we exist, obviously, just like the world does. Chances are that neither we nor the world will exist forever. When The End™ will come and in what form... good question.

I'd like to point out that according to a popular view among us, not even the deities last forever. Want immortality? Might be possible until Ragnarok, but after that... it's everyone's guess. We don't promise anything.

 

Ad 2. Science got an impressive mountain of evidence on which it stands firmly and quite unshakably. Speaking strictly for myself and trusting that most of "us" will agree, I say that I won't be a fool and claim that all this evidence is crap just because something we officially! call a saga claims otherwise.

 

Ad 3. In the saga that most closely equals Asatru "commandments", called the "Havamal" (Song of the High One), Odin (who supposedly wrote this himself ) stresses many times the virtues of both. That doesn't keep us, however, from retaliating in kind if others take a crap on these virtues. To get "scriptural" for a moment (and with a smirk;) ): "To a friend a man a friend shall prove and gifts with gifts requite, but men shall mocking with mockery answer and fraud with falsehood meet". Kind of similar to the infamous Golden Rule... only that it also stresses that if others beg to be kicked, you may feel free to do so.

 

Ad 4. Need additional info here

I'm not sure right now about possible multiple meanings of "discriminate". I'll assume you mean discriminate against (Africans for example because of their dark skin, or those of different (dis-)beliefs because of these differences).

Frankly, it's crap I think. I may well disagree with these people, but I'll gladly respect them just as much as they respect me. If they let me go my way, I won't bother them.

 

Ad 5. Keeping in mind the lack of central doctrines and based on the many contradictory claims about the nature of the deities and other stuff from saga to saga, I'd say openmindedness should follow naturally from the realization that nothing in Asatru claims to be absolute unshakable truth.

As for me personally, I have no problems with stuff like "endorsement of violence and tenacity in battle until the enemy is destroyed may well have its value in times where war is commonplace, but today is (mostly, and in my corner of the world) a time of peace - starting violent crap would be not only a bad idea, it would be sheer idiocy".

Quite the same where life philosophy is concerned. I'm not bound to any specific worldview just because I'm Asatruar. I may want to change my "fav deity" if my views change, to one that better fits the new me, but frankly... real life has to take precedence.

[Thurisaz]

Somehow, Thurisaz, I don't think you worship the pagan gods as living entities.

 

Not exactly, indeed. If they exist (which I assume and many of you won't ), they do so as "spiritual" nonmaterial entities. Whether they might be able to "materialize" is something I won't judge. Suffice it to say that if I should someday meet Thor face to face... I'd hurry to have a drink with him while he stays.

 

But "living entities"... that sounds far too much (for me) like "really, I tell you, jebus had/has a real human body! Honestly! Would I lie to you, eh?!"

[Thurisaz]

There is certainly some pretty strange racial views in some of the sects I've seen online...

 

Yes there is. Sadly.

I wonder whether those racist scumbags ever read what they claim is holy for them. I know of exactly one small chapter in the Poetic Edda that could be used to justify racism... and if you put that in its proper context, it ends up pretty much as a reflection of "a decent king has to look fair, dammit".

 

Aside from that, "race" in whatever form is pretty much a literal non-topic in the whole book.

[Thurisaz]

Superstitious truth claims are a reckless abandonment of reason...and sometimes empathy. In cases.

 

Seconded.

[Thurisaz]

Ignore me... I'm an arse!

 

If you say so, who am I to disagree?

[Thurisaz]

I'm interested in learning more about it, just from a cultural pride stand point. Most of my ancestors would have been from the peoples that would have practiced the religions it's based off of. I've studied a little but not much. How do you study a religion like this? What resources are out there?

 

The sagas, basically. Well, what survived the centuries of jebus cult "love".

Personally, I see the Poetic Edda as the most important part of it all. There's a (kind of) other, more mortal take on much of it in the Prose Edda, and then there are the many other sagas of Icelandic and other origins.

 

This page at sacred-texts.com might give you a good start if you want to do some research. Enjoy

 

And then of course there are many many books about the sagas, their possible meanings et cetera, both from a religious and secular/historical point of view. I can't recommend anything here, however, unless you can handle German texts well

[Grandpa Harley]

Ignore me... I'm an arse!

 

If you say so, who am I to disagree?

 

Indeed... and you just remember that!

[Mankey]

Superstitious truth claims are a reckless abandonment of reason...and sometimes empathy. In cases.

 

Seconded.

My own irrationality scares me. I have a mental illness and even as an atheist I have indulged in magical thinking and it was not fair to others. I have a void in me that will never be filled no matter what I do -magical thinking will never solve this problem.

 

This is one of the reasons I am an antitheist. But perhaps I am projecting my own flaws on to others...

 

I really like your religion the way you live it....I grudgingly admit.

 

I like to test my own life philosophy from time to time....to keep it real. I think that ethics demand a respect for reality as it really is....I am focused on that and I have made some progress...but need more work. I am trying.

 

Your religion is interesting.

 

I am not aware of any fundies in your religion.

[Ahh!]

I like this holiday, which is tommorow:

 

Harvest 9 - Day of Remembrance for Radbod: On this date we honor Radbod a king of Frisia what was an early target kristjan missionaries. Just before his baptism ceremony, he asked the clergy what fate his befallen ancestors who died loyal to Asatru. The missionaries replied that Radbod’s Heathen ancestors were burning in Hell-to which the king replied: “Then I will rather live there with my ancestors than go to heaven with a parcel of beggars.” The baptism was cancelled, the aliens expelled, and Frisia remained free. Drink a horn this day in memory of Radbod.

http://www.asatru.org/

[Lycorth]

Asatru was the first Pagan religion I embraced after leaving Xianity. It held my fascination for some time before my deconversion, and I nearly converted to it a number of times.

 

I went through a few phases, I suppose. I started off as a Theist, believing the gods really were true beings (along with the gods of all other religions), until I grew dissatisfied with it, for all the usual reasons of non-evidence. I didn't discard Asatru wholly, just modified my take on it, less Theistic and more Atheistic over time. In other words, I looked at Asatru more as an ethical philosophy based on pre-xian Teutonic legends, with an accompanying set of pre-xian Teutonic aesthetics. I looked on the gods as metaphors or anthropomorphized facets of nature or heroic role-models, but not actual beings - and ultimately unecessary in comparison with the ethics of the religion, summed up in the Nine Noble Virtues (to which some add and subtract freely, as change is always a good thing )

 

Today, this is the Asatru to which I hold. I embrace a few other religions (on my own terms, of course ), Asatru included, in the way I feel is best for me and most relevant to my life. I've no beef with those who hold to more literal interpretations of Asatru; I've no use for gods or anything past a respectable ethical philosophy these days - but Asatru's got that covered nicely

[Astreja]

Tribal leaders who led a migration from the eastern Mediterranean to Scandinavia several thousand years ago.

 

Is this based upon any known research or just a hunch/personal feeling?

Largely personal feeling, although there are a few archeological clues out there. For instance, there's a passing resemblance between Etruscan writing and the Futhark runes.