House Divided

[junkpoet]

Anyone out there married to a christian? Or been divorced partly as a result of deconversion? I have discussed this before on the site, but it has been a while and my situation seems at stand still. I have been married for 14 years. When we met at a christian university, it seemed a good match. Along with the romance and some shared interests, she was a the daughter of church of christ missionaries, I am a preacher’s kid. I deconverted as of august 2006. At first there were some spirited debates. I was trying to share with her, she was trying to shut me up. Then we just quit talking about it. We have three children. During the past year she has given up going to the fundy c of c in favor of a more liberal church (Methodist) a compromise. She skips church often. But I am in the position of a homosexual in Clinton’s military…don’t ask don’t tell. As long as I don’t talk about religion to her or the kids (I did not come out to either of our parents) , she is content to backslide, change churches, basically live a secular life but not talk about it.

 

The thing is she is a great girl in so many ways. We don’t have major problems outside of this one. It sounds corny probably, but thinking about, reading, and discussing politics, religion, science stuff; it is important to me. And I cant really talk about any of that with her.

 

A few months ago I was chatting (online) with another ex-christian I had met on carm. She was from a similar background as myself…small town in the south, church of christ preacher’s kid. It was scary how quickly we established a bond and how much I looked forward to our emails. I have not talked to her in a couple of months now.

 

So some of you my understand where I am. I made a decision, a commitment 14 years ago to a marriage. and my problems go beyond the marriage. I am a teacher in a conservative little fundy town in the bible belt. there’s my family, her family… I am surrounded by them. If I only had someone at home that was more of an ally…I think it would be easier to face the community of mostly christian, republican, gun-toting, nascar lovin’ cousin humping uneducated bumpkins.

 

so i probably sound like im whining. its not really all that depressing, i just wonder how others have delt with similiar situations. and i wonder if drastic change (divorce) in this situation more likely results in regret or liberation.

[Piprus]

Junkpoet,

Since my wife and I are both ex-christians and both renegades from fundieland, I've not had the issue in my own marriage. That happened with my parents. My father was a lifelong agnostic, so he characterized himself, and my mother was an ultraliberal christian despite having been raised as a baptist. Religion was insignificant in my early upbringing, and it was never controversial in the home. My parents, if there was any conflict, simply agreed to disagree, and left it go at that.

 

Perhaps that's the situation you're in now, even though it may not have been formally settled as such. It looks like your wife has already made some adjustments, and depending on her unshared thoughts, may be continuing to make them. Either way, it sounds like your marriage has far more going for it than against it. Couples never agree on everything.

[Japedo]

Anyone out there married to a christian?

 

 

Hello junkpoet, Long time no type to, its good to see you posting.

 

Oddly enough.. last night my husband wanted to view my Myspace page because he wanted to view the new slide show the kids told him I posted. It's not often he asks to look and heck I didn't care, I'm an open book.. just because he chooses to close his eyes to my lack of belief doesn't mean my lack of belief doesn't exist. None of my children are believers and don't go to church or anything either.

 

Anyways.. He was extremely upset and embarrassed over a few things I had on my page. 1) The Atheist 10 commandments I had posted as a blog. 2) I was labeled an Atheist under my religion 3) All the free thinking stuff I support and had on my page. He attempted to convey to me that once saved always saved, and I shouldn't have that stuff on my page, Christians and family members may find it offensive. His brother in-law is a pastor... well My Brother in-law too I guess... but you get the jist of how the convo was going .

 

LOL Well... I looked at him and said well Sweets, what do you want me to do lie to make you and your family feel better? He knows me better then that. I also added that, I find it offensive that he would want to silence me, hide me and my ideologies in a corner because he and his family are to lazy to seek answers themselves. I arrived at where I am with much struggle, and searching, there is no way I'm going to shutup about my distain for the cult. It's not going to happen and it's part of who I am. He said he wasn't going to argue, I said good and left him to the computer to keep reading my page.

 

We've been married for 18 years and all our kids are older teenagers. I have not had any sort of debate with his family... (Yet) I'm waiting for them to say something to me. I will make my case when they feel it's their business to 'educate' me.

[junkpoet]

thanks for the replies both of you and good to hear from you again japedo. i can picture the whole viewing of the myspace page episode. that is rich. it makes me smile to picture your frankness and the way it must make christians around you squirm.

 

my sweetie hasnt asked me to stay in the closet, she is not a very demanding person, i just know it upsets her to hear about my lack of belief and she is happier if she can just ignore the problem. again, i made a commitment, and no matter what has changed, that hasnt. yet. and piprus, i appreciate what you said about how all couples have their disagreements. i mean, i dont want to be marrried to me. and i have seen those couples where one seems to be the thinker and the other just seems to go along? that is not two people thinking and talking and enjoying the back and forth of conversation and ideas. but when you are an atheist that once was a christian, when you are a liberal that once was a born again reagonite, when you are intersted in reading the latest articles about evolutionary evidence in dna, fossils, some new dig or species of humanoid, and discussing all that stuff is important to you.....and you are married to somone that is still all those things you used to be, it is tough. she just wants to ignore all of it. anywho. thanks again.

[bush country]

junkpoet,

I think it says a lot about the strength of your marriage that the two of you are still together. If you can be polar opposites about religion and are still married - that is a very good thing. In reading your post I take it that this is your first and only marriage. From my experience divorce sucks. From 12 years ago and getting divorced....my marriage wasn't that good, we parted amicably, no custody issues, no money division issues, and a tremendous sense of relief when we decided to part ways. Yet my opinion is that divorce sucks. I know not everyone will agree with that statement. Of course there are valid reasons for divorce, like infidelity or abuse, and the first of those (on her part) is why I got divorced. However, it seems that your wife is being very tolerant and hopefully over time the two of you will work this issue out further than it is right now. Also sounds like she is changing in going from c of c to methodist. From the cc'ers I know that is a huge change.

 

Your opening question "Anyone out there married to a christian?" caught my eye. Yes I am. I have not told her about deconverting and don't know when (or for now - if) that is going to happen. A little background - we met at our church's singles group I was leading at the time, have just been married for four months, and my deconversion was in process at the time we were headed to the altar. It is a the second marriage for both of us. I officially deconverted two months ago. After deconverting one of my first thoughts was that there would be no way our marriage would work. She thought I was one way in my beliefs and that had all just changed. Sort of felt like I'd misrepresented who I am to her. I considered blurting it all out to her (I knew she would most likely leave) and calling it quits. Saving a lot of time, hassle, heartache, and just cutting our losses. Thankfully I didn't. I have never seen it as anyone else's business what I think or believe about anything. Even when I was a christian, I didn't see it as being something I wanted to go around pushing on others. So I am, for the time being, content to live with my lack of belief and maintain the status quo.

 

IMO, you are fortunate in that you don't have a secret that you are keeping from your wife. At least in your own private home you don't have to pretend to be something you are not. Maybe you are not able to discuss/debate some issues, but then, is she the type of person that likes to do that anyway? I say to focus more on those things you do like to do together and that will keep you together. I would most definitely stay away from thinking an on-line friendship should be taken further. In my single days, I got stupid and met some women in person after thinking I'd found "the one" on-line. They now fall into my "wtf was I thinking?" category.

[NearlyInsane]

I know how you feel, jp. I also agree w/ what the others have said about it being a good sign how your wife has dealt with this so far. I too struggle w/ having someone to talk to about anything to do w/ religion. But it seems to me that your relationship is strong enough to handle not having that part. And your wife has made major changes already. Perhaps you can find someone else to talk to as a friend. These days you can make friends over the internet & talk to 'em on the cell phone free of long-distance charges. Lots easier now than it was 20 or even 10 years ago to find like-minded people to relate to. And that's a helluva lot easier on everyone concerned than divorce. I've been there too, & believe me it does suck, even when it's 100% necessary, as it was in my case. So much so that I'd never get married again because of it.

[crazy-tiger]

Been there, done that, got the divorce papers...

 

 

Not quite the same as you though... Me and the crazy person I was married to started out as Atheists, until she decided to "investigate Christianity"

 

Less than a year later, a relationship that had been running smoothly had totally broken down and, from what little I've heard, most of the people at her church are glad because "you should never marry an Atheist"

[GraphicsGuy]

Well, junkpoet, my saga unfolded right here on this forum:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...=17948&st=0

 

My marriage ended a week and a half ago when my deconversion was (somewhat accidentally) revealed. So far, it's all been for the better. I'm getting some friends, going out more, have a lot less stress in my life. I am lonely and would really like to have a real relationship with someone eventually, but I feel better and even co-workers are telling me that I seem happier lately.

 

So, I guess I'd just like to tell you that you can't bury yourself beneath anyone's expectations for too long. It slowly starts to suffocate you and bleeds your joy of life away. It sounds like your wife may not be totally unreasonable...at least she didn't freak out and kick you out immediately.

 

Also sounds like she's on the road to deconversion and doesn't want to admit it. It could be that the discussions you did have at one point have continued to work on her.

[Ro-bear]

I am a teacher in a conservative little fundy town in the bible belt. there’s my family, her family… I am surrounded by them. If I only had someone at home that was more of an ally…I think it would be easier to face the community of mostly christian, republican, gun-toting, nascar lovin’ cousin humping uneducated bumpkins.

 

I am also a teacher in a predominantly right-wing Christian community. Hell, every community in east Tennessee is like that. I'm kind of quiet about my atheism at work, but I don't lie or pretend. I have a bit of good fortune in that my wife of 16 years is very agnostic. At home, I'm mostly free to be me.

 

If you love your wife and want to be with her, just avoid religion as long as it is a contentious issue. You can't deconvert people; for one thing, they resist and resent it, and for another it sometimes is temporary, in which case you are the devil's agent. Compartmentalize your life. Almost all of us do that to some extent. This online community is a great place to be an apostate. Just be a husband to your wife.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

[R. S. Martin]

I agree with everyone else, junkpoet. The differences you describe between yourself and your wife sound like the kind of differences between my sister and myself. We lived together for fifteen years. It was not easy not ever having anyone to really discuss things with. But it had nothing to do with religion. It had everything to do with intellectual curiosity.

 

And like everyone else says, it seems to me that your wife is truly thinking things over. Forcing the issue at this point may be premature. If you can just hang in there and be patient for a while (measured in months or years), the time may come that you grow together where religion is concerned. I, too, would ask if she has ever been an intellectually curious person.

[junkpoet]

junkpoet,

I think it says a lot about the strength of your marriage that the two of you are still together. If you can be polar opposites about religion and are still married - that is a very good thing. In reading your post I take it that this is your first and only marriage. From my experience divorce sucks. From 12 years ago and getting divorced....my marriage wasn't that good, we parted amicably, no custody issues, no money division issues, and a tremendous sense of relief when we decided to part ways. Yet my opinion is that divorce sucks. I know not everyone will agree with that statement. Of course there are valid reasons for divorce, like infidelity or abuse, and the first of those (on her part) is why I got divorced. However, it seems that your wife is being very tolerant and hopefully over time the two of you will work this issue out further than it is right now. Also sounds like she is changing in going from c of c to methodist. From the cc'ers I know that is a huge change.

 

Your opening question "Anyone out there married to a christian?" caught my eye. Yes I am. I have not told her about deconverting and don't know when (or for now - if) that is going to happen. A little background - we met at our church's singles group I was leading at the time, have just been married for four months, and my deconversion was in process at the time we were headed to the altar. It is a the second marriage for both of us. I officially deconverted two months ago. After deconverting one of my first thoughts was that there would be no way our marriage would work. She thought I was one way in my beliefs and that had all just changed. Sort of felt like I'd misrepresented who I am to her. I considered blurting it all out to her (I knew she would most likely leave) and calling it quits. Saving a lot of time, hassle, heartache, and just cutting our losses. Thankfully I didn't. I have never seen it as anyone else's business what I think or believe about anything. Even when I was a christian, I didn't see it as being something I wanted to go around pushing on others. So I am, for the time being, content to live with my lack of belief and maintain the status quo.

 

IMO, you are fortunate in that you don't have a secret that you are keeping from your wife. At least in your own private home you don't have to pretend to be something you are not. Maybe you are not able to discuss/debate some issues, but then, is she the type of person that likes to do that anyway? I say to focus more on those things you do like to do together and that will keep you together. I would most definitely stay away from thinking an on-line friendship should be taken further. In my single days, I got stupid and met some women in person after thinking I'd found "the one" on-line. They now fall into my "wtf was I thinking?" category.

 

thanks for your note. and i agree it is good to that i can be honest with her about my lack of belief. but what practical application does that have if in order to get along i have to be quiet about it. if you dont mind be asking, what church do you go to?

[junkpoet]

Well, junkpoet, my saga unfolded right here on this forum:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...=17948&st=0

 

My marriage ended a week and a half ago when my deconversion was (somewhat accidentally) revealed. So far, it's all been for the better. I'm getting some friends, going out more, have a lot less stress in my life. I am lonely and would really like to have a real relationship with someone eventually, but I feel better and even co-workers are telling me that I seem happier lately.

 

So, I guess I'd just like to tell you that you can't bury yourself beneath anyone's expectations for too long. It slowly starts to suffocate you and bleeds your joy of life away. It sounds like your wife may not be totally unreasonable...at least she didn't freak out and kick you out immediately.

 

Also sounds like she's on the road to deconversion and doesn't want to admit it. It could be that the discussions you did have at one point have continued to work on her.

 

wow. i wish you the best. new life i guess. i have a friend that says the same thing (sounds like she is on the road to deconverting) i dont know. she has changed her behaviour, but it seems like the old "you can take the girl out of the church, but you cant take the church out of the girl" and really, i dont want to argue with her. i dont even want to change her. i just wish i was married to an atheist. but, as i said before, she is really great and all things consedered, she has bent over backwards to accomodate me as i've gone through these changes. but maybe you are right. i hope so.

[junkpoet]

I am a teacher in a conservative little fundy town in the bible belt. there’s my family, her family… I am surrounded by them. If I only had someone at home that was more of an ally…I think it would be easier to face the community of mostly christian, republican, gun-toting, nascar lovin’ cousin humping uneducated bumpkins.

 

I am also a teacher in a predominantly right-wing Christian community. Hell, every community in east Tennessee is like that. I'm kind of quiet about my atheism at work, but I don't lie or pretend. I have a bit of good fortune in that my wife of 16 years is very agnostic. At home, I'm mostly free to be me.

 

If you love your wife and want to be with her, just avoid religion as long as it is a contentious issue. You can't deconvert people; for one thing, they resist and resent it, and for another it sometimes is temporary, in which case you are the devil's agent. Compartmentalize your life. Almost all of us do that to some extent. This online community is a great place to be an apostate. Just be a husband to your wife.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

 

thanks sir. and i am doing that (avoiding the topic) but you at least have the companionship of an open minded person at home. and i understand compartmentalizing. but for me, the internet is about the only place i can open up about my beliefs. and i am always amazed at the insight, sensetivity, and sense of humor that i find among those with no gods. anyway, thanks again

[junkpoet]

I agree with everyone else, junkpoet. The differences you describe between yourself and your wife sound like the kind of differences between my sister and myself. We lived together for fifteen years. It was not easy not ever having anyone to really discuss things with. But it had nothing to do with religion. It had everything to do with intellectual curiosity.

 

And like everyone else says, it seems to me that your wife is truly thinking things over. Forcing the issue at this point may be premature. If you can just hang in there and be patient for a while (measured in months or years), the time may come that you grow together where religion is concerned. I, too, would ask if she has ever been an intellectually curious person.

 

intellectually curious...not really. she is not really interested in history, mythology, theology, or biology. she is a busy girl, raising three kids with me and working 6 days a week. and i think she is scared. scared of what she might learn. that is why i am not hopeful that there will ever be any change. she is talking about going back to school to finish her degree, so i am encouraging her in that respect. i think any education moves one towards understanding the world better and towards curiousity and even scepticism

[Light_of_Reason]

I, too, am married to a Christian woman. Of course, we knew a good bit about what the other believed before we married. That is to say that my wife knew of my atheist philosophical leanings and understood what she was getting into. We have been married four years, and thus far, as long as we respect each other, we have no topics that are off limits. But we have had our moments, especially when one of us misunderstands what the other is actually saying. I have been guilty of that as much as her.

 

I am fortunate in that she is a big science nerd. She is going to school right now so that she can teach biology and chemistry. I understand that seeking knowledge in those particular fields is rather odd for fundamentalists, especially when they do not have the filter of fundamentalist schools, but my wife is intent on learning.

 

In fact, she is taking evolution this semester. I hope to learn as much from her as she does from the class.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

Hi Junkpoet. I think I responded to you the first time you wrote about this issue. My stance hasn't really changed all that much, but I see that at least your wife is not quite the nutcase Christian that my ex and GraphicsGuy's ex are. You may stand a chance.

 

As I said previously, my ex is a major fundamentalist. We were married for eight years and had two children together. I came into the relationship in the wrong frame of mind. I had just been dumped catastrophically by a woman that I believed I had some serious feelings for. I had been on my own for about six or seven years (out of high school) and had rebelled against my Christian upbringing. However, I didn't really focus on the WHY. I knew things didn't make sense, but I was just young and brash and rebelled.

 

When I came into this dark period in my life, I fell back into the pit of Christianity headlong. I was dumped by the one girl, met my ex, had our second "date" at a revival at her church and that was all. I spent the next four to five years being an ultraconservative fundamentalist freak. Then I found chat rooms and message boards and began debating Christianity, evolution and intelligent design with atheists. It only took a year or so before I realized why I had really rebelled against the church to begin with. My ex was not happy to hear about it, especially since we had just had our first child. I believe if we had not yet had children, she would have kicked me out faster than I could say, "The Bible is full of contradictions!" However, all she did was tell me that she would have to think about it because she did not know if she could live with me anymore. We just didn't talk about it anymore after that.

 

I had a couple of periods of lapsing back into the pit, all brought on by turbulent emotionalism, but finally, I dragged myself out, cleaned myself off, and refused to ever go back in. I tried to explain myself to my ex, but she would not have any of it. She scoffed at me and asked me if I really thought we all came from monkeys because SHE knew she didn't come from no MONKEY! When I would try to reason with her, she would just completely shut me out. She even started spewing the tongues at me once. I believe she would have gone on like that interminably, but I just couldn't do it. Like you, I believed that sharing my beliefs about life with my wife was an important thing. Having her make fun of me because of the way I thought was just too much. I began to pull away from her emotionally. I would spend all of my time online talking to other women, looking for what I couldn't get from my wife. I eventually even had an affair, which completed my separation from her. I knew after that there was no going back. I had no romantic love left for her in my heart. I loved her as a person (but she has done a remarkable job of ripping even that away from me...I hate her more than anyone I've ever known, now) and as the mother of my children, but that was it.

 

So with your situation, in my opinion it's a bit of a 50/50 chance. If she's a reasonable person and she honestly loves you and you honestly love her, then you two should be able to work this out even if she remains a believer. She sounds relatively liberal from what you've told, and that's always a good sign. However, if talking to her about your beliefs on the matter is as important to you as you say it is, don't just sweep it under the rug. You've got to sit down with her and talk it over or you will end up harboring resentment towards her. I wish I knew more to say. I hate the fact that my family was destroyed over this, but there was really no way around it. My ex is still a raging fundy now and will always be one. Take full advantage of your wife's liberal attitude to try to keep your family whole.

[R. S. Martin]

intellectually curious...not really. she is not really interested in history, mythology, theology, or biology. she is a busy girl, raising three kids with me and working 6 days a week. and i think she is scared. scared of what she might learn. that is why i am not hopeful that there will ever be any change. she is talking about going back to school to finish her degree, so i am encouraging her in that respect. i think any education moves one towards understanding the world better and towards curiousity and even scepticism

 

I wouldn't count on it. Here's a method that used to work with my sister. I would take things I learned from reading and put it in a familiar context and ask what she would think about such a situation. Come to think of it, she did it, too. However, she would get exhausted from too much of it so I could never get my fill. One big thing you have that I didn't is access to the internet. You get to talk with people here. I had only Canada Post and the last few years we had a telephone. I also made use of the public library.

 

I don't know if this works for you but I would suggest that if you want to hold this marriage together you find other outlets for your intellectual needs and use the marriage for the husband-wife relationship you probably wanted it for in the first place. I think it's unreasonable to expect people not to grow after marriage so it is not at all surprising if husband and wife don't always grow in the same direction. You are the only person who really knows what decision is best here.

[qadeshet]

During the past year she has given up going to the fundy c of c in favor of a more liberal church (Methodist) a compromise. She skips church often. But I am in the position of a homosexual in Clinton’s military…don’t ask don’t tell. As long as I don’t talk about religion to her or the kids (I did not come out to either of our parents) , she is content to backslide, change churches, basically live a secular life but not talk about it.

 

Sounds like your wife is willing to compromise. Does it really matter what she believes if she doesn't try to force her beliefs on you?

[bush country]

thanks for your note. and i agree it is good to that i can be honest with her about my lack of belief. but what practical application does that have if in order to get along i have to be quiet about it. if you dont mind be asking, what church do you go to?

 

To me, the practical application being - at least she knows about your lack of beliefs. Could your situation be better? Sure. But it could be a lot worse.

 

Could be wrong with this but, I am picking up on this being (at least) two different issues. One: Beliefs or lack thereof. Two: Intellectual curiosity. A change in the first area probably will not bring a change in the second. In fact I will opine that you will probably get better results in area one by working on area two. You have said she is thinking about returning to school to complete her degree. That should be strongly encouraged. Maybe it will kick start some intellectual curiosity in her.

 

I agree with what RubySera says about finding other outlets for your intellectual needs. Utilizing this forum is one outlet. I think that having a real, live, in-person friend to discuss things with would be best. Taking a somewhat conservative view of things I would say that you should seek a male friend for this purpose. Any chance of that happening? I'm thinking of places to meet people that might be a little more open minded about things, like the school that your wife may attend, a local UU church, or even a local community theater group (I've met some pretty liberal people at the one here).

 

The church I go to - Southern Baptist. All contemporary worship. In some ways it is easier to go to church now because it used to frustrate me that people said one thing but acted in a totally different manner. Now that makes more sense to me because I realize they are acting under their own motive, not god's (seeing as how he doesn't exist). But it is kind of difficult to not snort derisively at some of the crap that comes from the pulpit, I have to keep from rolling my eyes at inane xian comments, and I'm hoping I can keep from calling bullshit on things out loud. Although that might make for an interesting service - sitting there saying "bullshit" instead of "amen".

[NearlyInsane]

Well, junkpoet, my saga unfolded right here on this forum:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...=17948&st=0

 

My marriage ended a week and a half ago when my deconversion was (somewhat accidentally) revealed. So far, it's all been for the better. I'm getting some friends, going out more, have a lot less stress in my life. I am lonely and would really like to have a real relationship with someone eventually, but I feel better and even co-workers are telling me that I seem happier lately.

 

So, I guess I'd just like to tell you that you can't bury yourself beneath anyone's expectations for too long. It slowly starts to suffocate you and bleeds your joy of life away. It sounds like your wife may not be totally unreasonable...at least she didn't freak out and kick you out immediately.

 

Also sounds like she's on the road to deconversion and doesn't want to admit it. It could be that the discussions you did have at one point have continued to work on her.

 

wow. i wish you the best. new life i guess. i have a friend that says the same thing (sounds like she is on the road to deconverting) i dont know. she has changed her behaviour, but it seems like the old "you can take the girl out of the church, but you cant take the church out of the girl" and really, i dont want to argue with her. i dont even want to change her. i just wish i was married to an atheist. but, as i said before, she is really great and all things consedered, she has bent over backwards to accomodate me as i've gone through these changes. but maybe you are right. i hope so.

 

I'd like to throw something into this discussion that I haven't seen yet - have you ever thought about just how much you're asking of your wife? You say you wish you'd married an atheist. Well say you had, & after 14 years she had some dramatic conversion experience - say she had a near-death experience & ended up getting suckered into fundyism. Would YOU want to hear her talk about all of that gawd shit? I'm guessing you would only engage in such conversations w/ the idea of talking some sense into her.

 

To want her to share in your newfound intellectual curiosity is perfectly natural, but it's asking a lot. I have known people whose deconversions happened in tandem w/ spouses, but that's quite rare. You say all you have is the internet for people to talk to about this stuff - well the same goes for lots of people, myself included. I'm not married, but that doesn't mean I suddenly have lots of nonbelieving friends & suitors banging on the door. Almost everyone in this area is religious. Their beliefs vary, but I'm the only person I know with NO beliefs. And a few years ago there wasn't even the internet. It has been a life-saver for me over the last 10 years, & even though you can't talk face to face with everyone, it's a huge improvement over pouring thru library books looking for something that slipped by the psycho-fundy librarian. And you can find people on the internet who live near your area, & eventually meet them IRL. So don't denegrate the internet as an outlet - it's been the most amazing help in improving my quality of life, & not just w/ religion issues.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you should try to focus on what's good about your situation, rather than what's bad. There's plenty of time for unravelling marriages; I'd try to find a way to work things out first. I understand it's been a year & you maybe had expected things to be better by now, but I'd strongly recommend giving it more time - especially if this is the only serious problem in your relationship.

[GraphicsGuy]

I tried to explain myself to my ex, but she would not have any of it. She scoffed at me and asked me if I really thought we all came from monkeys because SHE knew she didn't come from no MONKEY! When I would try to reason with her, she would just completely shut me out. She even started spewing the tongues at me once. I believe she would have gone on like that interminably, but I just couldn't do it. Like you, I believed that sharing my beliefs about life with my wife was an important thing. Having her make fun of me because of the way I thought was just too much.

 

Hey Bob, wow, do I ever know how this feels! Totally, totally what happened the day she/we ended it. I hope I don't end up hating her like you say you do with your ex, but I will admit to being excessively angry with her. It's so bad that I can't get an e-mail from her lately with out feeling naseous. I love her, but I hate her close-minded attitude and the methods she's used to control me all these years.

[junkpoet]

During the past year she has given up going to the fundy c of c in favor of a more liberal church (Methodist) a compromise. She skips church often. But I am in the position of a homosexual in Clinton’s military…don’t ask don’t tell. As long as I don’t talk about religion to her or the kids (I did not come out to either of our parents) , she is content to backslide, change churches, basically live a secular life but not talk about it.

 

Sounds like your wife is willing to compromise. Does it really matter what she believes if she doesn't try to force her beliefs on you?

 

it matters. living with somone that you can not discuss topics like religion, mythology, biology, politics, etc because it will end in a fight, this is a problem. but i take your point and, in fact, right now i am going ahead with the relationship on those terms. i understand that i am luckier than some in that she has compromised with me. and it is currently my intention to go forward with the attitude that our marriage is to be about raising kids, paying bills, a little romance and some good sex--but that it is no about finding intellectual fullfilment and conversation.

[junkpoet]

thanks for your note. and i agree it is good to that i can be honest with her about my lack of belief. but what practical application does that have if in order to get along i have to be quiet about it. if you dont mind be asking, what church do you go to?

 

To me, the practical application being - at least she knows about your lack of beliefs. Could your situation be better? Sure. But it could be a lot worse.

 

Could be wrong with this but, I am picking up on this being (at least) two different issues. One: Beliefs or lack thereof. Two: Intellectual curiosity. A change in the first area probably will not bring a change in the second. In fact I will opine that you will probably get better results in area one by working on area two. You have said she is thinking about returning to school to complete her degree. That should be strongly encouraged. Maybe it will kick start some intellectual curiosity in her.

 

I agree with what RubySera says about finding other outlets for your intellectual needs. Utilizing this forum is one outlet. I think that having a real, live, in-person friend to discuss things with would be best. Taking a somewhat conservative view of things I would say that you should seek a male friend for this purpose. Any chance of that happening? I'm thinking of places to meet people that might be a little more open minded about things, like the school that your wife may attend, a local UU church, or even a local community theater group (I've met some pretty liberal people at the one here).

 

The church I go to - Southern Baptist. All contemporary worship. In some ways it is easier to go to church now because it used to frustrate me that people said one thing but acted in a totally different manner. Now that makes more sense to me because I realize they are acting under their own motive, not god's (seeing as how he doesn't exist). But it is kind of difficult to not snort derisively at some of the crap that comes from the pulpit, I have to keep from rolling my eyes at inane xian comments, and I'm hoping I can keep from calling bullshit on things out loud. Although that might make for an interesting service - sitting there saying "bullshit" instead of "amen".

 

bull shit instead of amen. lol. i have been there. and i hear you on the finding somone to talk to, and the person being male. a good idea. the babtists rule here in our little town. somtimes i just want to get the hell out of the bible belt, get out of my relationships with all these damn christians, and freakin move to sweden or something. but, back to reality.

[GraphicsGuy]

but that it is no about finding intellectual fullfilment and conversation.

 

And that is really damn important - especially to personal growth and moving forward in life

[junkpoet]

Well, junkpoet, my saga unfolded right here on this forum:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...=17948&st=0

 

My marriage ended a week and a half ago when my deconversion was (somewhat accidentally) revealed. So far, it's all been for the better. I'm getting some friends, going out more, have a lot less stress in my life. I am lonely and would really like to have a real relationship with someone eventually, but I feel better and even co-workers are telling me that I seem happier lately.

 

So, I guess I'd just like to tell you that you can't bury yourself beneath anyone's expectations for too long. It slowly starts to suffocate you and bleeds your joy of life away. It sounds like your wife may not be totally unreasonable...at least she didn't freak out and kick you out immediately.

 

Also sounds like she's on the road to deconversion and doesn't want to admit it. It could be that the discussions you did have at one point have continued to work on her.

 

wow. i wish you the best. new life i guess. i have a friend that says the same thing (sounds like she is on the road to deconverting) i dont know. she has changed her behaviour, but it seems like the old "you can take the girl out of the church, but you cant take the church out of the girl" and really, i dont want to argue with her. i dont even want to change her. i just wish i was married to an atheist. but, as i said before, she is really great and all things consedered, she has bent over backwards to accomodate me as i've gone through these changes. but maybe you are right. i hope so.

 

I'd like to throw something into this discussion that I haven't seen yet - have you ever thought about just how much you're asking of your wife? You say you wish you'd married an atheist. Well say you had, & after 14 years she had some dramatic conversion experience - say she had a near-death experience & ended up getting suckered into fundyism. Would YOU want to hear her talk about all of that gawd shit? I'm guessing you would only engage in such conversations w/ the idea of talking some sense into her.

 

To want her to share in your newfound intellectual curiosity is perfectly natural, but it's asking a lot. I have known people whose deconversions happened in tandem w/ spouses, but that's quite rare. You say all you have is the internet for people to talk to about this stuff - well the same goes for lots of people, myself included. I'm not married, but that doesn't mean I suddenly have lots of nonbelieving friends & suitors banging on the door. Almost everyone in this area is religious. Their beliefs vary, but I'm the only person I know with NO beliefs. And a few years ago there wasn't even the internet. It has been a life-saver for me over the last 10 years, & even though you can't talk face to face with everyone, it's a huge improvement over pouring thru library books looking for something that slipped by the psycho-fundy librarian. And you can find people on the internet who live near your area, & eventually meet them IRL. So don't denegrate the internet as an outlet - it's been the most amazing help in improving my quality of life, & not just w/ religion issues.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you should try to focus on what's good about your situation, rather than what's bad. There's plenty of time for unravelling marriages; I'd try to find a way to work things out first. I understand it's been a year & you maybe had expected things to be better by now, but I'd strongly recommend giving it more time - especially if this is the only serious problem in your relationship.

 

well put. and im not going anywhere. (not leaving her)

 

but as far as what i am "asking of" her...i would rather not ask anything. but i am not ashamed of who i am or what i believe and i wont baptize or sugar coat my response to every situation that confronts our marriage and attempt to make my reactions and ideas and solutions conform or fit or not offend her pardigm which was shaped and is ruled by the words of some 2000 year old document written by a bunch of racist, chavanistic, volcano worshipping, goat burning, blood drinking, flat world percieving assholes.

 

as far as problems, things are ok, but we have our share. this is the only serious one, but it is a serious enough issue to end a marriage. it has happened before.