Christians: What must I do to be saved?

[Mythra]

What must I do to be saved?

 

Salvation by grace through faith in Christ. What man decided that this was it? Who decided for you that this was how to get to heaven? Paul? or is John 3:16 the only valid verse spoken by Jesus? Because it's the popular opinion, how do you know it's the right one? In the words of Jesus himself, this is what you must do to be saved.

 

Matt 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

Matt 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

Matt 6:15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

Matt 7:1&2 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

 

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

 

Matt 25:31-46 The sheep and the goats. Too long to quote, but it says that you get to heaven by taking care of the "least of these" by feeding them, clothing them, visiting them in prison and in the hospital, and welcoming them into your home. Yes, that includes if they have B.O.

 

Mark 10:19 The rich young ruler asks Jesus how to get to heaven. Jesus says that he must obey all of the commandments. Oh, and sell everything you have and give it to the poor. This is how Jesus instructed this guy to get to heaven.

 

Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.

 

Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions, and give to the needy.

 

Luke 14:13 But when you feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.

 

Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate hisown father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sister, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

 

Luke 14:33 So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.

 

Again I ask. What must I do to be saved?

[DanInPA]

Nice Mythra.

 

Robert Ingersoll wrote an essay on this subject.

He goes through all 4 gospels and only John mentions believing.

 

Ingersoll's "How to be saved"

 

In the book of John all these doctrines of regeneration -- that it is necessary to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ; that salvation depends upon belief -- in this book of John all these doctrines find their warrant; nowhere else.

 

Read Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and then read John, and you will agree with me that the three first gospels teach that if we are kind and forgiving to our fellows, God will be kind and forgiving to us. In John we are told that another man can be good for us, or bad for us, and that the only way to get to heaven is to believe something that we know is not so.

 

All these passages about believing in Christ, drinking his blood and eating his flesh, are afterthoughts. They were written by the theologians, and in a few years they will be considered unworthy of the lips of Christ.

[Thurisaz]

What must I do to be saved?

 

Here's the tools you'll need to open your skull. You know the way to the trashcan, don't you?

 

(At least this goes for the fundie brands of whatever religions...)

[Guest vanesa]

How to get saved, Xtian style:

 

1. Take some honey, some mustard, and some skunk poo and smear it all over your face.

 

2. Take off all your clothes, and put on a big pink diaper. Write funny words on it with a red crayon.

 

3. Take a pair of handcuffs and cuff your hands together.

 

4. Stick a goldfish in your diaper.

 

5. Take some cement, mix it and pour it into buckets, then put the buckets on your feet. Wait until it dries. If you can't find cement then use playdoe.

 

6. Wear a dog collar around your neck. Make sure it says "Sparky" on the name tag.

 

7. Stick a cookie jar on your head and write on your back "Saved Xtian".

 

8. Spread some sweet and sour sauce on your legs, then rip up a pillow and stick the feathers on your legs.

 

9. Run down the street at lunch hour as fast as you can shouting "OOGA BOOGA OOGA BOOGA". Repeat this for an hour and if you fall, get up and keep running.

 

10. After lunch hour, get on the sacred city bus and go to another part of town and repeat step 9. Do this every other hour on every Friday and Monday, including holidays.

 

There you have it. TEn easy Xtian steps to salvation with the Lord Jezus Christ!

[Mythra]

 

Oh shit. That was TOO funny.

 

Vanesa, I've never seen that side of you before. That was hilarious.

[Amethyst]

9. Run down the street at lunch hour as fast as you can shouting "OOGA BOOGA OOGA BOOGA". Repeat this for an hour and if you fall, get up and keep running.

 

10. After lunch hour, get on the sacred city bus and go to another part of town and repeat step 9. Do this every other hour on every Friday and Monday, including holidays.

 

LOL. Assuming someone doesn't slap a straight jacket on you and haul you away to the nearest mental clinic.

[dogmatically_challenged]

How to get saved, Xtian style:

 

HAHAHAHA!!!.....HHAHAHAHAHA!1!!! Thank you Sister Venesa!

[Vixentrox]

Hehe...those make about as much sense as the various ways Xtians belive and practice thier religion....if less gruesome. After all, you don't have ritual canablism in your list Vanessa.

[Amanda]

Hello Mythra... glad you asked...

 

And Venesa... thanks for adding the entertainment... and yes, I laughed too.

 

Salvation is a free gift done by grace. Everyone is saved, the more we sin... grace abounds even more. Do we sin more so there will be more grace... no, it doesn't work like that as EVERYONE must still be accountable for their actions.

 

Consider for a moment that heaven, the kingdom of God is within you as Jesus has said. Also, it says that to be carnally minded is death, and to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Perhaps faith in Jesus is to have a convicted belief in his ways, his truth presented, and his life as a demonstration... hence, Jesus introduces himself as the way, the truth, and the life. Salvation from torment and living in heaven is a state one can attain now. The book is a book about spirituality, a place one lives is much more inside, within, and maneuvers through this journey outside.

 

What must I do to be saved?

----------------

Matt 5:20  For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many were with lack of compassion, which makes those... one of the last ones to see the kingdom of God.

Matt 6:15  but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you can not forgive others, then how can that actualized part of yourself really forgive your self? A deeper core of ourself regulates a justice, even to ourself.

Matt 7:1&2  Judge not, that you be not judged.  For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

C'mon... easy one! Look at how many on this site see those that have judged others out of what seems to be a Pharisee mentality. It is not the ones they judge that gets the brunt of their actions but themselves. That applies to everyone.

Matt 16:27  For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We are all saved by grace, yet our inner rewards are based on our actions. Many of the most weathiest people are anonymous philanthropist because just doing it to be doing it is their reward... not the world's glory. So it was with Mother Tereasa also, I believe.

Mark 10:19  The rich young ruler asks Jesus how to get to heaven.  Jesus says that he must obey all of the commandments.  Oh, and sell everything you have and give it to the poor.  This is how Jesus instructed this guy to get to heaven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That particular person perhaps needed to learn that monetary position did not determine the worth and value of a person... as that was all his father had left him. Many times reference to give money away is to note that the money can be the means, not the end.

Luke 6:30  Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It also says to not throw your pearls before swine. Sometimes giving is enabling, so sometimes not giving is giving... yet one must be wise enough to know the difference. Sometimes instead of fighting a war, be wiser... in eliminating the possibility of reoccurrence.

Luke 14:26  If anyone comes to me and does not hate hisown father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sister, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jesus looking for disciples here. One must hate the WAYS of their friends and family and their own, to truly see and understand his ways. Yes, there were many dysfunctional families back then too.

Again I ask.  What must I do to be saved?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your eternal salvation is a done deal for everyone, done before the foundation of the world, demonstrated 2000 years ago. To be delivered out of torment, the "book" suggests that to be carnally minded is death, to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Hello Mythra... glad you asked...

 

And Venesa... thanks for adding the entertainment... and yes, I laughed too.

 

Salvation is a free gift done by grace. Everyone is saved, the more we sin... grace abounds even more. Do we sin more so there will be more grace... no, it doesn't work like that as EVERYONE must still be accountable for their actions.

 

Consider for a moment that heaven, the kingdom of God is within you as Jesus has said. Also, it says that to be carnally minded is death, and to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Perhaps faith in Jesus is to have a convicted belief in his ways, his truth presented, and his life as a demonstration... hence, Jesus introduces himself as the way, the truth, and the life. Salvation from torment and living in heaven is a state one can attain now. The book is a book about spirituality, a place one lives is much more inside, within, and maneuvers through this journey outside.

Many were with lack of compassion, which makes those... one of the last ones to see the kingdom of God.

 

If you can not forgive others, then how can that actualized part of yourself really forgive your self? A deeper core of ourself regulates a justice, even to ourself.

 

C'mon... easy one! Look at how many on this site see those that have judged others out of what seems to be a Pharisee mentality. It is not the ones they judge that gets the brunt of their actions but themselves. That applies to everyone.

 

We are all saved by grace, yet our inner rewards are based on our actions. Many of the most weathiest people are anonymous philanthropist because just doing it to be doing it is their reward... not the world's glory. So it was with Mother Tereasa also, I believe.

 

That particular person perhaps needed to learn that monetary position did not determine the worth and value of a person... as that was all his father had left him. Many times reference to give money away is to note that the money can be the means, not the end.

 

It also says to not throw your pearls before swine. Sometimes giving is enabling, so sometimes not giving is giving... yet one must be wise enough to know the difference. Sometimes instead of fighting a war, be wiser... in eliminating the possibility of reoccurrence.

 

Jesus looking for disciples here. One must hate the WAYS of their friends and family and their own, to truly see and understand his ways. Yes, there were many dysfunctional families back then too.

 

Your eternal salvation is a done deal for everyone, done before the foundation of the world, demonstrated 2000 years ago. To be delivered out of torment, the "book" suggests that to be carnally minded is death, to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just don't have the energy to show you scripture that you are forgeting.

 

Not everyone is a bible scholar Amanda. God.. if he truly loves us, would not use a book where we all have to be bible scholars in order to understand him. Not when you take into account the human condition. For how many generations, did/do people have to spend most of thier daily hours commited to putting food on the table. How long has humanity had leisure? To get the education it takes to understand such a confusing and inconsistnt book? Even today the masses have to spend thier time making ends meat and are too tired to persue things that are boring to them. This is the human condition and so....taking occam's razor and assuming a loving god we would have a personal revelation from god and nothing else is needed. We would be able to question God when we are not sure and get an answer that is consistent with the answers that everyone else would get to the same questions put to God.

 

Why fixate so, on that book? If there is a Loving God you will most assuredly find God from within. If there is a personal God that created us then we, not a book, is a true revelation of God. Start by looking from with in and you will find more truths that are testable and useful than you will ever find in that book you are fixating on. Please trust me. Truth comes from within. First understand fully how you yourself tick for a true testament from a creator.

[Vixentrox]

Not to mention that the bible was only in Latin until 1500s or so. Only the priests and few others could read. Books were only the domain of the church or the very very rich.

 

Are you a Catholic? What happened to all the souls that had to rely on the word of priests to get into heaven? If you belive Catholism (as taught in the middle ages way back when) is not the correct path, what happened to all those souls that were led astry by priests?

[Amanda]

Why fixate so, on that book? If there is a Loving God you will most assuredly find God from within. If there is a personal God that created us then we, not a book, is a true revelation of God. Start by looking from with in and you will find more truths that are testable and useful than you will ever find in that book you are fixating on. Please trust me. Truth comes from within. First understand fully how you yourself tick for a true testament from a creator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly, I agree entirely! One of the most spiritually inspiring people I have met didn't even know how to read or write! There are many paths to a good life.

 

I happen to enjoy exploring the Bible for its hidden mysteries, treasures, and principles. Does one have to read it? Of course not. Now if someone asks what certain verses mean, or have a different interpretation, can't I share with them my interpretation?

[dogmatically_challenged]

Exactly, I agree entirely! One of the most spiritually inspiring people I have met didn't even know how to read or write! There are many paths to a good life. 

 

I happen to enjoy exploring the Bible for its hidden mysteries, treasures, and principles. Does one have to read it? Of course not. Now if someone asks what certain verses mean, or have a different interpretation, can't I share with them my interpretation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes Amanda, by all means share with people when they are curious. Please do and reason together.

 

But I'd like to share with you a little of what some of my friends in RT and the net believe.

 

They reason that the bible is in no way constistent in meeting the cryteria of a loving God. To them it is the work of our ancestors. They should be valued for thier contributions, but we should build on what they have given us. And that means admitting when they were immoral or in error. If I have kids and they grow up and have improved upon my knowlege that I instilled in them ( even if that means them criticizing my methods and perceptions), then I will feel that I have done my job as a parent. If they are better people than I was.

 

Now some theists who have a Deist bent, believe that the bible writers were drawing from within. From thier divine spark(thier own spirit), which is presumably a component of the human animal. According to these folks when we are at our best, it is because we are drawing on the divine from within.

 

But I must ask you Amanda; how do we explain the ugly scripture in the bible? Do we say that it does not really mean what it says and we should look for hidden meanings? Is this really useful or honest? Is it a waist of time? Are we giving the evil scripture a power...an authority, that others can act on since many agree that that book is the word of God?

 

I know some people who would rather just say, that the gems in the bible were written by men who were drawing on the divine from within ONLY when what they wraught was truly wise, loving and beautiful, and when the bible writers wrote hateful garbage they were NOT drawing on their divinity but were too caught up in hate and bigotry. Hate and bigotry aren't a divine attribute if we assume an all loving Creator.

 

Food for thought.

 

BTW Amanda, I'm glad to see that you are engaged in debate in the Arena! Right on. I am kinda lazy in that regard. Kudos to you!

[dogmatically_challenged]

DC.....that was absolutely beautiful, ,  and I agree with you 100%!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I guess it is obvious by now that I am kinda sweet on Quaker deists and Quaker atheists.

 

I don't have the juice to prove there is no god. I don't have the juice to prove there is a god.

 

I will say, after recently having thought things over, that I think that many deists are explorers, naturalists and philosophers in the question: IS THERE A CREATOR? They look for a Creator in nature and build a philosophy from it. Thier own personal philosophy based on thier own revelations.

 

I see integrity and reason in thier search. I respectfully agree to disagree about a Creator.

 

And as far as what I agree on with certain Quaker friends, I do believe in tapping into the divinity that is inherent in all individuals. We are not perfect but there is goodness to be tapped into from inside if we try.

[diggin]

I just don't have the energy to show you scripture that you are forgeting.

 

Not everyone is a bible scholar Amanda. God.. if he truly loves us, would not use a book where we all have to be bible scholars in order to understand him. Not when you take into account the human condition. For how many generations, did/do people have to spend most of thier daily hours commited to putting food on the table. How long has humanity had leisure? To get the education it takes to understand such a confusing and inconsistnt book? Even today the masses have to spend thier time making ends meat and are too tired to persue things that are boring to them. This is the human condition and so....taking occam's razor and assuming a loving god we would have a personal revelation from god and nothing else is needed. We would be able to question God when we are not sure and get an answer that is consistent with the answers that everyone else would get to the same questions put to God.

 

Why fixate so, on that book? If there is a Loving God you will most assuredly find God from within. If there is a personal God that created us then we, not a book, is a true revelation of God. Start by looking from with in and you will find more truths that are testable and useful than you will ever find in that book you are fixating on. Please trust me. Truth comes from within. First understand fully how you yourself tick for a true testament from a creator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well said. And I agree with you.

 

Here's my take:

God really does save those who really do believe, and obey. **

 

God really will -- has already made arrangements -- to save everyone else, too. Different sort of salvation, different time. Those of you who want and need more proof that God exists, you are very reasonable and you're fine.

 

When God speaks up, takes charge, resurrects the dead, restores the earth, and teaches everone his ways, there will be no need of proof. Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

Now, blind faith is much more dangerous than skepticism. Always has been, and always will be.

 

** Christians can't always articulate why they believe, because the proofs are so thin, and the ability to jump to those conclusions is spoken of as a gift from God, not some obvious thing that everyone is expected to go along with. Plus, I think most "Christians" are what Jesus called "tares" anyway -- not true believers at all, but folks whose "belief" is rooted in the garbage of traditionalism without the spark of personal relationship as a son of God.

 

"He that has an ear, let him hear". If it doesn't make sense, don't worry. You're cool.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Well said. And I agree with you.

Well, we partially agree with each other. The bible has not been shown to be the word of god, and other peoples with own religions also claim to have the inside scoop on Higher Power.

 

You mentioned in another thread that god has a long term plan. Well...with all of gods abilities in combination of being omni-benevolent (Love is gods nature and not just an ability according to scripture), then god would be limited by his nature which IS love. That means his limitation would have gotten in the way of any long term plan involving the use of unwilling pawns. Think of it. What you say is illogical on many levels if we assume an omni-powered god who's nature is LOVE. If the bibles stories were true, then you must realize that through out the generations people have suffered because of being used by your god, and lets not forget the protection not given to each and every individual through out history.

 

1) I John 4:8. "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love... And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him."

So here we have a limitation placed on god by one of the bible writers. Bible god IS love. Gods very being IS love according to this passage.

 

2) (1 Corinthians 13:4-7) "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

The "word of god" describes what love is in this passage. Bible god is given a limitation by this bible writer, (who is supposedly inspired by god while writing what love is) to love in this manner.

 

3) Therefore bible god MUST love as is possible for one with his attributes. The N.T. and the O.T. accounts of your god and his plan contradict these two passages on many levels. If we are to believe the stories about your god then he is a hypocrite, a self seeking thug, and a sadist in his long term goals for us. Bible god's nature IS love and is also described as having certain powers...so there is no excuse as to why such a god, (whose nature IS love), would not have shown in EVERY case patience, kindness, keeping no records of wrongs for the sake of revenge, rejoicing in truth , (rejoicing in truth; something that would be got by telling us to eat of the forbidden fruit in the first place), being protective with every individual that ever existed and playing no favorites, and persevering in his love for us every second that has ticked by in the whole of our existence here on this planet. The bible accounts of your god are ridiculous if we are to believe I John 4:8. and 1 Corinthians 13:4-7.

 

You can not refute in a reasonable manner that your god, (whose nature IS love, while having the abilities as described in your book), would be limited to NEVER allowing ANYONE through out our history, in the present and through out future generations, to suffer AT ALL let alone for such a long term plan. If god IS love and has the super powers as described in your book, then there would be no suffering like he inflicted, as well as the suffering that comes from what we do to eachother and what humanity endures in its efforts to survive natural disasters. Your book is an incoherent work of fiction. You have no case for christianity to present that is superior to the other religions of the planet, and it is hypocrisy, as well as a form of chauvinism and bigotry to think you got the better scoop on god and everyone else is mistaken. You are narrowmindedly holding to a ridiculous mythology book.

 

I have just demonstrated that your book is illogical and incoherent. Don't blame us heathens for the extraordinary claims made by the bible writers of the power's and nature of your god. People in this era claim the bible is consistent after having full knowledge of the bibles claims of what gods nature is, while also having knowledge of the bible stories of god? Amazing.

 

I just have one less absurd belief than you . You are a victim of an invented solution to an invented problem. This belief system that you subscribe to plays on your basic needs and desires as well. Everyone has been had by the mind virus known as christianity.

 

Here's my take:

God really does save those who really do believe, and obey. **

If we use our reason and empathy to develop a conscience then we will be on our way to a real salvation. Experience drawn from applying reason and empathy is superior to your imbecilic god man. The tool kit is already inherent in us, we just have to practice using these tools which is empathy and reason. What I describe is as close as it gets to a revelation from The Creator, or these are just a boon got from natural circumstance. There is no need of your mythology and you can't demonstrate otherwise. Your book and your god man is nothing other than an invented solution to an invented problem. I will not invest in a business that has no real product to sell and neither should anyone else.

 

The good news is, is that it does not matter if there is a god or not, we do have these tools to use, tools to develop even better tools in survival, lessening damage, allowing each other more freedoms as is reasonable, and to be in the perpetual state of improvement in making life a joy to live for all. We can have these things by using real methods and discarding certitude in traditions and nationalism. "We the people of the planet" can only be realized by discarding chauvinism and bigotry in traditions and methods that can not be demonstrated to work for EVERYONE’S benefit. Christianity...since it enjoys the support of powerful nations just gets in the way of the real issues and solutions that are actually relevant to humanity.

 

God really will -- has already made arrangements -- to save everyone else, too. Different sort of salvation, different time. Those of you who want and need more proof that God exists, you are very reasonable and you're fine.

You have yet to prove this and to believe that the bible is the word of god; for no good reason, faith is not a knowing and it is not a valid reason, while maintaining that you are right and the other religions are wrong is a bigoted and chauvinistic world view. The world view that comes from narrowmindedly holding to a tradition is immoral and causes damage. It divided peoples and there is no reasonable excuse for it.

 

When God speaks up, takes charge, resurrects the dead, restores the earth, and teaches everone his ways, there will be no need of proof. Jeremiah 31:31-34

Amen! Then and only then would YOU, or anyone else have reason to have faith in bible god.

 

Now, blind faith is much more dangerous than skepticism. Always has been, and always will be.

There’s a difference between simply naysaying, and being skeptical. True skepticism is honest were naysaying and faith is dishonest.

 

Fact is; it is the christians who are the naysayers and use the ridiculous 'proof' called faith. You should be more precise when comparing skepticism to faith. Skepticism weeds out harmful or stupid methods and beliefs.

 

** Christians can't always articulate why they believe, because the proofs are so thin, and the ability to jump to those conclusions is spoken of as a gift from God, not some obvious thing that everyone is expected to go along with. Plus, I think most "Christians" are what Jesus called "tares" anyway -- not true believers at all, but folks whose "belief" is rooted in the garbage of traditionalism without the spark of personal relationship as a son of God. 

Look in the mirror digger.

 

If you can't openly reject the bigoted scripture that is in your book, then you are indirectly supporting those of whom you speak. You can not coherently demonstrate who is a true christian either. Never gonna happen.

 

Your book divides christians from christians, as well as christians from the rest of humanity.....and it is inexcusable given that no one has any reason to subscribe to jesus. Jesus says he's the only way and others will be punished or destroyed for not following his ways. There are superior methods to getting along and to improve than what your mythology describes. This can be demonstrated. Consistency and flexibility can win over the other in a beneficial way only through using reason and empathy and your mythology is getting in humanities way.

 

"He that has an ear, let him hear". If it doesn't make sense, don't worry. You're cool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Soft bigotry is what I read here. It is an insult to peoples intelligence. You say you have the scoop on the Creator yet you can not demonstrate it. What you are saying here is the same as saying that I, or others are pretty cool for being a negrah, without really showing how whites are superior. Bigotry plain and simple.

 

I feel no malice towards you. I am just telling it like it is. Everyone has flaws, but there is a difference between being open minded when presented with something that is more reasonable and then changing our beliefs accordingly and between wallowing in our certitude while pretending that there is no flaw in our beliefs at all.

 

You are a victim of the mind virus known as christianity. Your support of the bible being god breathed is a bigotry and only helps to enable the damage and pain that some fundies do in this world. The fewer people who call that book the word of god; the more alone the fundies will feel in pushing thier bigotry.

[Guest INKOGNETO]

You can't just believe and think your saved...even satan himself believes in God.

You need to repent of your sins...(transgression of God's law) that means turn away from them..and put your trust in Him...live for him.

[Ouroboros]

You can't just believe and think your saved...even satan himself believes in God.

You need to repent of your sins...(transgression of God's law) that means turn away from them..and put your trust in Him...live for him.

Only under these conditions, which all requires faith, and have no evidence of being true:

 

1. God really exists

 

2. Heaven and hell really exists

 

3. Devil really exist

 

4. We will be judged

 

5. Bible is the only description of God

 

Now consider other "truths":

 

1. All other religions are false

 

2. Many Christian heretics also are false

 

3. Many Christians are not heeding to the true gospel

 

4. Many Christians live in sin and are backsliders

 

5. Interpretation of the Bible is in constant flux, so the current salvation requirements might be wrong, and come to change then next 50 years.

 

---

 

End result, there will be only a few hundred people of the whole human mandkind in history that even will go to Heaven, and Inkogneto, there's a chance you're not going there either.

 

---

 

Good to see you back Ink. You've been gone for a while?

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, every Christian have their own version of faith.

Who got all the checkboxes correctly filled when they go to heaven?

 

I'm sure if heaven/hell exists, that Christians go there too, just because of their sinful pride and intolerance.

 

It's going to be lonely in Heaven for me.

 

But I'll have all my friends from ex-ch there!!!

[Thurisaz]

You need to repent of your sins...(transgression of God's law) that means turn away from them..and put your trust in Him...live for him.

 

Trust one who lied to his subjects from the very beginning? Yeah sure.

Hope for justice from a habitual sadist? Oh fine, just throw out your brain and stuff your head with babble pages and you won't see anything wrong with that...

 

Assuming for a moment that jehoover could really exist, it would be the very first duty of every moral human to fight the monster.

[Kryten]

You can't just believe and think your saved...even satan himself believes in God.

You need to repent of your sins...(transgression of God's law) that means turn away from them..and put your trust in Him...live for him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm... Of course the WHOLE POINT of this thread is that you are saved based on which set of scriptures you believe the most, and which ones you minimize. Your stating which set you think is correct doesn't really add to the solution-- if there is one. According to the majority of denominations, one certainly IS saved by faith alone-- although faith without works is dead. So what are the works?? Certainly it cannot be following the entire Jewish law. The church would obviously want its followers to obey the local laws and not be criminals, but I suspect the "works" they want the most are those that build up the church itself-- like donating time and money. And I'm sure well over 99% of all Christians consider leading a lost soul to Christ as "works".

[Ouroboros]

You can't just believe and think your saved...even satan himself believes in God.

You need to repent of your sins...(transgression of God's law) that means turn away from them..and put your trust in Him...live for him.

 

Define "Transgression of God's law".

 

Jesus said that the whole law is fulfilled in one law:

"Love your neighbor as yourself".

 

That means homosexuals and pagans et.al. all can fulfill the law by just following the above statement. And I've met many Christians that does not follow that law. Only a few Christians I've met actually take this single commandment to heart and follow it.

[Vixentrox]

You can't just believe and think your saved...even satan himself believes in God.

You need to repent of your sins...(transgression of God's law) that means turn away from them..and put your trust in Him...live for him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Satan...which your imperfect god created?

[cerebralchristian]

What must I do to be saved?

 

I think you make it more complex than it needs to be.

 

To be saved, follow the model of what one of the other men being crucified beside Jesus did and said. He verbalized his recognition of his own unworthiness; he recognized who Jesus was and told him so; he asked to be included among those Jesus redeems. Then Jesus affirms that the man is indeed included.

 

To be saved, tell Jesus you know who he is; you know who you are and how much you need his redemption; and just *ask* to be included in his family. Just ask him to enter your life/heart and be your savior and lord.

 

Tell him what you believe and then just ask. No word games, no technicalities. If you need him/love him, just tell him and ask him to remain in you forever.

 

This what I did, and it changed my life. A mystical, amazing experience.

 

CC

[cerebralchristian]

Says which denomination of Christianity? Says, which one of the many different salvation scriptures. Which one are you clinging too?

 

CC: I'm not a Fundamentalist. I don't do "proof texts."

 

Thankful:

That is hearsay, the bible has so many lies that one has to pick and choose which ones to believe. Why should I believe it, I never saw Jesus.

 

CC: Then why should you even bother discussing it?

 

Thankful: Ah, that magical majestical sinner's prayer. Funny, even though I did that with my whole heart for 30+ years, I was never ever able to heal anyone like Jesus said. Nothing for my glory, no selfish motive. The bible is false and evil. Thankfully I worship the evil biblegod nor his evil son any longer.

 

CC: Did you ever love him, though? If you love him, does it really matter whether he does what you want him to do? If the love wa snever there, then I would say neither was the relationship. If the love was there on your part, what made you turn on him?

 

Thankful:

Hmmm...he didn't remain in my heart forever even though my pleas were heart felt. No word games?

 

CC: Maybe you *evicted* him from your heart.

 

Thankful: I could I possibly love such evil deities? The evil pathetic, man-god threatens eternal torture and his evil disgusting pathetic father delights in drowning innocent babies. No thanks, if you can love that evil beast described in the bible, knock yourself out.

 

CC: Wow. That's hard for me to read. It is painful to see someone talk that way about someone I love. I think you are tragically mistaken about God. I believe he is the essence of compassion, kindness, justice, and peace.

 

Thankful:

I changed my life and have never been happier, simply by positive thinking. No evil god or evil man-god needed. It's really awesome! :-)

 

CC: Well, I am glad that you are not suffering. I suppose this is an example of someone wilfully rejecting God and rejecting salvation. Some Christians say they can't imagine that a person would knowingly say "No thanks." Perhaps they should visit this site.

 

I wish you well.

 

CC