Twisted Fundy Hate But They Call It Love

[R. S. Martin]

Graphicsguy posted the following (emphasis is mine) on Maybe The Bible Isn't The Cornerstone Of Christian Faith:

 

It seems that I can't go a few weeks without experiencing hate from some evangelical fundamentalist.

 

And it IS hate. They really hate us (ex-xians) because they cannot explain why nor believe that we really did leave the faith. They can't explain why or how things went bad for us. They say they love us and just want to help, but all they really care about is trying to justify their own continued beliefs even in the face of our counter-evidence.

 

So, they say we weren't really saved. They say we just wanted to sin without consequence. They say we weren't tough enough. They call us cowards. They refuse to listen unless you get really fucking angry at them. Then they just say that you're an angry person. They say you just wanted to live your own life and not listen to God.

 

Fuck. I'm really starting to hate them in return.

****************************

Do I ever identify! I bolded the one part because it's key as I'm sure most people here know. They call it love but it sure feels like hate. One Christian explained to me that hate is a really strong word and that it means people would like to be rid of one. I said it feels like they really would like to be rid of me.

[Mythra]

Well, Ruby, here's how I see it.

 

They say "hate the sin, but love the sinner". I'm not saying they practice it, but they say it.

 

So I feel obligated to at least give them the same courtesy. "hate the religion, but pity the religionist". Much as I hate mental illness, but don't hate those who are mentally ill.

 

They're sick, Ruby. They don't know it. But they are. They aren't okay in the head. They have weird shit bouncing around between their ears that is putting them on tilt.

 

I like messin with em. In fact, I love messin with em. But primarily the aim is to give them a glimpse of what things are like outside of their protected religio-environment.

 

But I can't say I hate em.

[R. S. Martin]

That's a nice way of putting it but here's a few things that happened to me when I wasn't even thinking about messing with them or anything. All I was thinking about was discussing things, answering questions from a different perspective, that sort of thing.

 

1. My optomotrist was doing my eye exam and by way of conversation asked about my personal beliefs. I didn't really know how to explain and told him so. He kept prying and bugging, then suddenly told his own story. Turns out he was Baptist. Then I felt obligated to tell him about the up-coming meeting I was having with a Pagan. I didn't know if paganism was right for me but I was at the moment investigating. He didn't wait for me to explain. He started evangelizing me. I felt cold, like I should leave the situation. But I wasn't sure if the eye exam was over and I didn't understand why I should leave because he wasn't doing anything physical. So I stayed. But when I got home I realized what he had done. I accused him of spiritual rape because that is what it was. He did not ask my permission to evangelize and push his religion. He did not respect my wishes not to talk about my personal beliefs. It was rape in the purest form. What happened? I got a letter in registered mail informing me that I was discharged from his clinic. No reason was stated. I checked up and I had been taken off the books. No other doctor in the clinic will take me. I had to find another optomotrist.

 

2. I was having a sisterly chat with my one sister whom I'll call Anne. Before we hung up I told her about this incident. She turned cold on me. She informed me that I had promised not to tell her when I stopped going to church. The conversation ended and we hung up. I was dumb-struck. I didn't know what she was talking about. I had not said anything about church. The meeting with the pagan had come and gone and paganism wasn't right for me, but Anne had not listened long enough to hear that part of the story. After some thought I concluded that the problem was that she did not understand the various views of God. She always came around when we had a heart to heart talk about things. I felt confident that all it took to make up was one phone call. I tried calling her the next evening but got no answer. I called another sibling and was told she was with our parents taking care of Mom. It was Friday evening and I then remembered that she took an occassional weekend with our parents so I waited till after the weekend to call. Maybe it was Tuesday when I finally connected.

 

But I was able to connect with her voice only, not her heart. She grilled me with the standard questions about God's existence such as How did the universe come into being if there is no God? Could such a deep book as the Bible have been written if there were no God? etc. To which I answered in the affirmative. No matter how hard I tried, it was impossible to have a discussion about anything. She was out to force me to confess that God existed but she didn't say so and I didn't realize it till later. Our relationship has never been the same.

 

3. In a family circle letter Mom asked what unbelievers think happens when people die. I replied that they think death is the end. I also said that this forces people to take responsibility for their actions, etc. Mostly stuff I learned on exC. One of my sisters whom I'll call Emma accused me of some unnamed crime. She wrote me a letter that I did not understand. I thought a simple phone call would clear up the misunderstanding. It turned into an hour-long fight about religion. I explained that I was just answering questions in the letter. She said, "But you wanted more, right? You wanted more." I don't remember what answer I grunted to that because I had no idea what she meant. There had been an on-going discussion and I only joined it. She told me with a voice of finality and authority and superiority, "That has now been stopped."

 

Well, okay. But why the threatening voice? I did not understand any of it. Why the accusatory attitude? What did I do wrong? At one point we touched on the topic of respect. She asked me what I meant by respect. The question caught me off-guard and by way of collecting my thoughts I said, "It's hard to explain..." She cut me off right there and agreed. I got no more opportunity to explain what I thought respect was. I think she was treating me like a bossy big sister. The thing is, I was eight years old when she was born. At one point of our conversation I mentioned how unkindly she has been treating me and got a few apologies from her. However, she was not sorry for considering me to be retarded and hell-bent. She was sorry only for telling me these things.

 

It took me days to figure out what she had been accusing me of in her letter and telephone conversation. Finally it dawned on me that she (and the others) believed I had been trying to force my beliefs on them. All I had done was expose them to ideas and I did not even indicate whether or not I held to those ideas. I was still exploring and barely knew what I believed, but apparently in their minds I had disrespected their beliefs and this warrented a solid scolding and accusation. This, in their minds, proved that I knew without being told that I had offended and intentionally disrespected them and their beliefs.

 

************************

See how totally twisted all of this is? And see what it got me? It all started because I shared a sisterly talk with Anne late in the summer. Needless to say, after such treatment I cut back contact with my sisters. I am a human being and can take only so much emotional abuse. Six months later Mom died. They didn't think I would show up for her funeral because I was such a sordid monster. When I did show up and did show human tenderness they believed I was ripe for conversion and put me through the ringer again. Anne put me through another conversion telephone call, only I did not realize till later that it wasn't just a discussion. It did leave me exhausted. Then there was a similar conversation with another sister, the one living with Emma.

 

About the funeral. Dozens of people told me how glad they were to see me there. As though a daughter would not want to attend her mother's funeral. Just how deep does a hurt have to go for a daughter not to want to attend her own mother's funeral? But they never look at it like that. They only look at it that I am perverted and evil. They call it love when they praise me for attending my mother's funeral. It is HATE, pure and simple. What they are telling me is that they hate me so much they don't care how much *I* am hurt. They hate me so much that all they care is that I do the things that make THEM feel good. How *I* feel has not a bearing in the world, now or in eternity.

 

And it's the people who have been closest to me earlier in my life who use the honeyed voices to praise me for doing what every daughter wants to do. And they do it at the most vulnerable time of one's life. I say this is HATE disguised as love. I played along with their games that day, but when they sent me birthday cards and letters a few weeks ago I didn't even open them.

[R. S. Martin]

Hating them takes too much energy. But I think labeling their perverted hate for what it is is the first step to mental health for myself.

[Mythra]

Wow Ruby. You're going through some shit, there, girl. I can see how some negative emotions are justified. And, coming from your background, I can't imagine how tough it would be. I gotta tell you that I have tremendous respect for you - coming out of an environment that was so controlling.

 

I don't have any of that. Everyone close to me is relieved to see that I've abandoned the religious nonsense that made me into a different person.

So perhaps that's one reason it's so easy for me to detach myself. I don't have any contact with any of the people I knew in religion-dom. And if they ever did come around proseletyzing, I'd just tell em to take a hike.

 

I'm just glad you have Ex-C, Ruby. At least there is somewhere you can open up and not get slammed for it.

[godlessgrrl]

Wow. Ruby said the word "fuck?"

 

You are indeed on your way. Liberating word, ain't it...

 

I like your last comment though, about how labeling the hate is a first step towards healing. I agree. Once you're able to recognize something damaging for what it is, it starts to lose its power, because you can see it coming more easily.

 

Keep up the good work.

[SWIM]

Ruby, I understand your frustration. That's why I avoid religious discussions with my wife, and other xtian relatives. It really sucks that they can be so closed minded, but it is mostly a defense action.

 

They way I see it now, is that xtians are not just simply "believers", but rather delusional. They suffer from a REAL brainwashing, and are genuinely deluded.

 

See, it's not just a matter of reasoning with them, we all know here xtianity is crap because we saw past the delusion. We have helped ourself from a mental health point of view. It's really a matter of mental health.

 

You seem to be going through a lot of crap in your life, and I feel for you.

[Amethyst]

This is why I avoid discussing religion with my extended family. Some of them are so fundy they would probably start praying for me on the spot if I told them I no longer believed. They would probably also insist that I reconvert too. So I just don't talk about it.

 

I feel like I cannot be myself around them at all. It is so frustrating when the holidays roll around and I see them. It's like being an alien on another planet.

 

I agree with those who see fundamentalism as a type of delusion. I hope that someday those affected by it will be encouraged to get help, rather than keep believing in the nonsense.

[Onyx]

Ruby, one thing has to be said. They were wrong to preach to you. Evangelism is just an euphenism for spiritual rape. What it should be called is just that, spiritual rape. They are spiritual rapists for forcing you to convert again. For that, you should make noises to make them stop. Make them see that what they are doing is wrong and they should promptly stop treating you that way.

 

Rubysera, you are a more forgiving person than am I. If it was me, I would have called them spiritual rapists. You go!

[R. S. Martin]

Ruby, one thing has to be said. They were wrong to preach to you. Evangelism is just an euphenism for spiritual rape. What it should be called is just that, spiritual rape. They are spiritual rapists for forcing you to convert again. For that, you should make noises to make them stop. Make them see that what they are doing is wrong and they should promptly stop treating you that way.

 

Rubysera, you are a more forgiving person than am I. If it was me, I would have called them spiritual rapists. You go!

 

Any suggestions as to what kind of noises I could make that would get them to stop? My family won't stop at anything. I think I would have to use legal action for harrassment to stop them. Or the threat of it. I think the threat would suffice. How do I carry out the threat in case the threat doesn't work?

 

I and all my relatives are in Ontario so that's the law we'd be working with.

[R. S. Martin]

PS Name-calling (spiritual rapist, etc.) has no impact with my family. It just proves to them what an evil monster I am and the raping continues. Thanks for assuring me that it is a legitimate charge, at least on the emotional level if not legal.

 

I've tried everything I can think of and nothing works. But your suggestion about "making noises" brings up ideas about legal action. If anyone can advise me on that I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

[Onyx]

I know nothing about Ontario laws but I can suggest that you see your lawyer or your lawyer friends first before making any lawsuit threats. That much is an act of common sense. Beyond that, all I can do is to give you a (((big hug)))

[I Broke Free]

I have been dying for someone, anyone, for years to ask me about my faith or try and evangelize. I have all these wonderful quips stored up and ready to go and no one to use them on.

 

The only religious member of my extended family is my brother and he never brings up the subject; perhaps it is because of where I live? Until six years ago I lived in San Francisco and now I live in New Hampshire. San Francisco is so diverse that no one tries to discuss religion and New Hampshire is so secular and so reserved that is considered quite rude to discuss such things with strangers.

 

Perhaps I should take a vacation to Oklahoma or something.

[R. S. Martin]

How about this?

 

To all my biological relatives:

 

I forbid each and every one of you to contact me for any reason outside business. If you contact me for business, I forbid you to discuss any other topic. If you trespass these restrictions I will sue you for harassment. If you send greetings such as birthday or Christmas cards in the mail or by telephone, it will be considered harassment and you can expect to have the Ontario Provincial Police knocking at your door.

 

I'm sure it's not strong enough to stand law, but the details can be filled in later with the help of someone familiar with the law.

 

Just writing out the words "Ontario Provincial Police" gave me a feeling of empowerment. That's a very different feeling from the feeling I've been having. The only real solution I knew was to disappear so they don't have my address or telephone number. But that would include moving and I don't want to do that. It would seriously disrupt the life I am building for myself. Besides, I loath the very concept of "running away" and "living in hiding." I HAVE NOT COMMITTED A CRIME.

[R. S. Martin]

I know nothing about Ontario laws but I can suggest that you see your lawyer or your lawyer friends first before making any lawsuit threats. That much is an act of common sense. Beyond that, all I can do is to give you a (((big hug)))

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not doing anything too big at the moment. The things I wrote about happened a while ago. Maybe it will die out with another year or so.

[Casey]

There is no greater heretic, no greater infidel, than one of the faithful that has fallen into error.

 

I first heard this saying when I was at school. Apparently it is of Jesuit origin, and applied to those who became Protestants, but I see the sentiment is alive and well with other sects. Politicians, especially those of the more extremist persuasions, have been known to quote it also, albeit in a less religious context.

 

Your family really seems to have got a snout on you, Ruby. Unfortunately there doesn't seem much that can be done about it, if, indeed, anything can be done at all. They are in a cult, and this is the main insurance they have against their members leaving it. The idea would be to make an example of he or she who leaves. I think it frightens them when any member leaves the church nonetheless, and because they are frightened (whether of losing their salvation or whatever), they react even more harshly when it is a family member who has left.

 

As for others such as the optometrist you mention, I was under the impression that one goes to see an optometrist or other medical personnel about the state of one's health and nothing else. Sermons given free gratis and for nothing are not part of the deal. In fact, when such people start unsolicited sermonising, it borders on professional misconduct. If, after you've told them that if you'd wanted to hear a sermon, you'd have gone to a bloody church, they still insist on delivering one, perhaps it is time to consider taking the matter up with whatever body governs their conduct.

 

Your being refused treatment by that fellow and his colleagues can also be considered professional misconduct, unless you are a private patient or client. If the State bears the cost of your visits, that too is a matter for his professional association.

Casey

[R. S. Martin]

I might respond to some of the other parts (and Mythra and IBF's posts) later.

 

As for others such as the optometrist you mention, I was under the impression that one goes to see an optometrist or other medical personnel about the state of one's health and nothing else.

 

So was I. This was so unexpected and such a strange experience (not to mention that I was totally new to being a deconvert) that I had no idea what was happening to me or how to respond. I thought it was a theological discussion, chit-chat as part of the visit. But it was chit-chat gone way out of control. I guess the holy spook got ahold of him or something. I don't know. It was rape pure and simple. That is what the holy spook told me when I got home and it is what I told the doc via email.

 

The spook also told him to give me his personal email. We were going to exchange authors--that is how come he gave me his email. But profs never gave personal emails; just their school emails. When I saw that he gave his personal email, I knew something was unprofessional but I didn't know what to do about it.

 

Sermons given free gratis and for nothing are not part of the deal. In fact, when such people start unsolicited sermonising, it borders on professional misconduct. If, after you've told them that if you'd wanted to hear a sermon, you'd have gone to a bloody church, they still insist on delivering one, perhaps it is time to consider taking the matter up with whatever body governs their conduct.

 

I never told him to stop because I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was a theological discussion. It started out like that because he knew I was studying theology. I know now, from reading this forum, that he was using that as an evangelizing technique to get started but I didn't know it then.

 

Your being refused treatment by that fellow and his colleagues can also be considered professional misconduct, unless you are a private patient or client. If the State bears the cost of your visits, that too is a matter for his professional association.

 

This is the part I wanted to respond to. It happened in Aug. 2006. The province paid for the visit. He provided service that day. The letter cut service as of Sept. 1, 2006. I had several other local healthcare professionals read it and they said it was legal because he referred me to the Yellow Pages in the phone book to find another optometrist. I need annual examinations and found a doctor who took me on this year. She invited me to come again every year.

 

I suspect that it borders on professional misconduct but so far no one has been able to tell me how to make a case. I am not sure that I would take it anywhere even if I knew how, but it would feel good to know I could if I wanted to. It could at least be recorded as persecution on the official level.

[R. S. Martin]

I skipped some posts earlier. I read them but didn't respnd. I was too overwhelmed emotionally. Just needed a bit of time. I appreciate the support, all of you.

 

Wow Ruby. You're going through some shit, there, girl. I can see how some negative emotions are justified. And, coming from your background, I can't imagine how tough it would be. I gotta tell you that I have tremendous respect for you - coming out of an environment that was so controlling.

 

<snip>

 

I'm just glad you have Ex-C, Ruby. At least there is somewhere you can open up and not get slammed for it.

 

Yeah, exC has been my salvation, my bible, and guiding star this past year.

 

I like your last comment though, about how labeling the hate is a first step towards healing. I agree. Once you're able to recognize something damaging for what it is, it starts to lose its power, because you can see it coming more easily.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Thanks. I think a lot of the work this past year has been about identifying and breaking the power.

 

Ruby, I understand your frustration. That's why I avoid religious discussions with my wife, and other xtian relatives. It really sucks that they can be so closed minded, but it is mostly a defense action.

 

They way I see it now, is that xtians are not just simply "believers", but rather delusional. They suffer from a REAL brainwashing, and are genuinely deluded.

 

See, it's not just a matter of reasoning with them, we all know here xtianity is crap because we saw past the delusion. We have helped ourself from a mental health point of view. It's really a matter of mental health.

 

You seem to be going through a lot of crap in your life, and I feel for you.

 

Mental health is my goal. I think I'm well on my way but it means NO CONTACT with my family WHATSOEVER.

 

This is why I avoid discussing religion with my extended family. Some of them are so fundy they would probably start praying for me on the spot if I told them I no longer believed. They would probably also insist that I reconvert too. So I just don't talk about it.

 

I feel like I cannot be myself around them at all. It is so frustrating when the holidays roll around and I see them. It's like being an alien on another planet.

 

I agree with those who see fundamentalism as a type of delusion. I hope that someday those affected by it will be encouraged to get help, rather than keep believing in the nonsense.

 

You must be stronger than me if you can be around them at all.

 

I have been dying for someone, anyone, for years to ask me about my faith or try and evangelize. I have all these wonderful quips stored up and ready to go and no one to use them on.

 

The only religious member of my extended family is my brother and he never brings up the subject; perhaps it is because of where I live? Until six years ago I lived in San Francisco and now I live in New Hampshire. San Francisco is so diverse that no one tries to discuss religion and New Hampshire is so secular and so reserved that is considered quite rude to discuss such things with strangers.

 

Perhaps I should take a vacation to Oklahoma or something.

 

Sounds like you're totally recovered. Why don't you just pretend to be interested in some fundy church? Let them evangelize you and get you inside their church. Ask about their church to get their attention so you get invited...

 

There is no greater heretic, no greater infidel, than one of the faithful that has fallen into error.

 

I know why. I have been very conscious of this myself. I have consciously searched their literature and sermons (by memory) for tools to use against them. I never fail to find what I need. They never fail to be too stubborn to be impacted. They have at their disposal a complete arsenal of anti-false doctrinal tools to deploy against the likes of me. They don't have to be brilliant to use these tools, either. All they have to have the brains for is to say, "You are twisting scripture to suit your own purposes." And they're right. They don't have to understand what they are saying but they're right and I can't argue them.

 

Your family really seems to have got a snout on you, Ruby. Unfortunately there doesn't seem much that can be done about it, if, indeed, anything can be done at all. They are in a cult, and this is the main insurance they have against their members leaving it. The idea would be to make an example of he or she who leaves. I think it frightens them when any member leaves the church nonetheless, and because they are frightened (whether of losing their salvation or whatever), they react even more harshly when it is a family member who has left.

 

I was part of them for forty years. I cannot identify with this fear of people leaving. Many people left while I was with them and I never felt threatened or anything. I simply don't get it. What are they afraid of? What could possibly happen or go wrong by people leaving that is so terrifying?

 

If the group were tiny I could see the problem but it's huge. Several hundred nuclear families could split off and it would rock the boat but it would not sink. What could possibly happen if one little Ruby leaves?

 

It's totally unrealistic the fuss they kick up. Come to think of it, it's almost as crazy as the idea that the entire religion would go to hell if they let go of the idea that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. It's as though, if we let one thing slide, first thing we know the whole ship is sunk. Reason simply plays no role. Love of truth, apparently, has no role in their thought processes. Truth can stand no matter what. Where did I get that idea if I wasn't raised with it? I think I was raised with it and I took it at face value because it made sense. But it seems no one else believes it. They just preach it but they don't trust truth to be able to take care of it. They have to take care of truth and coddle truth like some new-born infant that is unable to fend for itself. Crazy. Totally and utterly crazy.

 

That is crazy way beyond the "faith makes no sense" crazy.

[Amethyst]

This is why I avoid discussing religion with my extended family. Some of them are so fundy they would probably start praying for me on the spot if I told them I no longer believed. They would probably also insist that I reconvert too. So I just don't talk about it.

 

I feel like I cannot be myself around them at all. It is so frustrating when the holidays roll around and I see them. It's like being an alien on another planet.

 

I agree with those who see fundamentalism as a type of delusion. I hope that someday those affected by it will be encouraged to get help, rather than keep believing in the nonsense.

 

You must be stronger than me if you can be around them at all.

 

The main reason I still go to family functions is to see those relatives I can stand. Problem is, they're also usually there with the annoying relatives. But as long as my grandma is still alive, I'll continue to see her over the holidays.

[Artur]

*

[WCrystal]

Lots of Christians I've met say that they "love".

 

I say that they're in denial.

[Purple]

Ruby, one thing has to be said. They were wrong to preach to you. Evangelism is just an euphenism for spiritual rape. What it should be called is just that, spiritual rape. They are spiritual rapists for forcing you to convert again. For that, you should make noises to make them stop. Make them see that what they are doing is wrong and they should promptly stop treating you that way.

 

Rubysera, you are a more forgiving person than am I. If it was me, I would have called them spiritual rapists. You go!

 

Any suggestions as to what kind of noises I could make that would get them to stop? My family won't stop at anything. I think I would have to use legal action for harrassment to stop them. Or the threat of it. I think the threat would suffice. How do I carry out the threat in case the threat doesn't work?

 

I and all my relatives are in Ontario so that's the law we'd be working with.

 

 

Ruby I don't know about your family, but I had a similar situation with a doctor. Shortly after my deconversion I went into a depression, I'm bipolar but was undiagnosed at the time. My doctor called my home to see how I was doing, at first I was impressed no doctor had ever done that before. He then asked if he could talk to me on a more personal note, I thought "weird" but didn't say so and said ok. He proceeded to tell me about his conversion experience in the "Holy land" and how my problem was that I needed Jesus. On the phone I was just stunned, I didn't say much of anything, I'm sure you can somewhat relate, it took me so by surprise my responces were one - two sylable things like yeah, um, uh huh. After I got done speaking to him a friend of mine called, and could hear the stunned sound in my voice. When I told her she got angry, and told me to call the AMA (American Medical Association), I was all "well I don't know, not sure etc. So... she asked me all the doctors info and she reported him, for unprofessional conduct. I'm still not sure it changed much, but it felt good to know someone had "made a noise" about it. I do not know if you've already done anything, and I am afraid I do not know what the Canadian equilivant of the AMA would be, but that doctor needs to be reported. His one and only concern should have been your eyes, and that's all!

One report may not do a lot, but someone else may have had a similar problem and if they report him as well, then things add up, and he could be disiplined or worse. At the very least if you reported him I am sure he would be made aware that someone stood up and said NO! and maybe that wold give him reason to pause with others. Not because its down right rude (it is) xians have proven they care little about rude, but for fear of a worse repercussion.

[Rhia]

I don't know if this will really help, Ruby, but I discovered this during my adoption process:

"Blood may seem to run thicker than water, but when it becomes tainted; by anything - there is allowance to invalidate blood's tie".

 

It's hard, figuring out that one's family is more harmful than helpful; and it's difficult, to make the decision to cut off all ties with ones' family - but it does not make anyone a bad person or a horrible, traitorous, family member to suddenly realize that the best thing for a person at times is to just leave.

 

I was the one who made my decision to completely leave my birth family for a time and become another family's child. If I hadn't, I would have turned out as stark raving mad as the rest of my family are (with 1 suicide, 3 cutters, 3 addicted to drugs & alcohol, all the boys being horribly violent, and 10 year old who thinks she'll grow up to be a boy - and those are just the siblings). If I hadn't left, who knows the type of person I would be. Would I be drug-addicted and making deep gashes all over my body just to "feel"? Would I be like my mother, claiming I see the dead, and trying to "help" people by reading their tarot cards and claiming to talk to their dead relatives? Or would I still be the exception; the one who left but comes back from time to time, hoping for some semblance of normalcy; and every time leaves again wishing more and more that I was switched with another child at birth, and these people that I call my family are not really my blood at all - but that there are decent, intelligent, and down-to-earth people out there, somewhere, who really do share my DNA.

 

It's hard at times, being the exception; but when the pain comes from being a member of a family that I feel (and I sense you seem to feel) I'll never fully fit in with, agree with, or be anything more than (underneath their smiles and faded memories of me) the one who left. Once we have the knowledge of what's in store for ourselves, material knowledge that seems to be so shallow to both our families; and dangerous when it keeps us locked away and submissive - we can never go back. And we shouldn't, to go back would be subvert the truth within ourselves. It's funny enough that the bible (Jn 8:32) made the claim: "The truth shall set you free"; because although that is interpreted as talking about the Christ and Salvation - both hateful fundy concepts - it is true, that when we figure out the truth for ourselves, we are free from the constraints that have brought us misery.

 

When blood turns their backs upon us, they have made that decision, and the decision by those betrayed to discontinue contact is not, and never will be wrong, disloyal, or dishonest. They dishonoured us with their hurtful words and actions, their shunning, and their abuse.

[R. S. Martin]

“spiritual rapeâ€.

 

I’m having trouble with that term used to describe unwelcome evangelism efforts.

 

If that were all it was, I am sure all of us would have trouble. Obviously, you did not read the story with an open heart and mind. Or possibly you are simply incapable of imagining something you have not personally encountered.

 

In my time as a pastor, I dealt with a very few women who had been victims of actual rape. Their lives and stories included years of nightmares, disrupted personal relationships, fear and confusion in intimacy, the horror of having to put the single most intrusive, hurtful assault that one can imagine into a place where life can go on.

 

If you can read my story, Purple's story, and Rhia's story, and still insist that none of us have dealt with those things on the emotional and pschological levels, then obviously you simply cannot imagine it. Please file it in your brain with the stuff that you cannot understand or imagine but do not discount the legitimate experience of your fellow human beings.

 

Most of the things you say about these women also applies to our situation. It seems inappropriate that I, the victim, need to fight for my right to be heard by you, the pastor. Have you never heard of allegory or parallel? There is no such thing as a "single most intrusive hurtful assault." Unless you are intimately familiar with the entire spectrum of human experience (and no human is) you cannot make that statement.

[R. S. Martin]

Ruby, one thing has to be said. They were wrong to preach to you. Evangelism is just an euphenism for spiritual rape. What it should be called is just that, spiritual rape. They are spiritual rapists for forcing you to convert again. For that, you should make noises to make them stop. Make them see that what they are doing is wrong and they should promptly stop treating you that way.

 

Rubysera, you are a more forgiving person than am I. If it was me, I would have called them spiritual rapists. You go!

 

Any suggestions as to what kind of noises I could make that would get them to stop? My family won't stop at anything. I think I would have to use legal action for harrassment to stop them. Or the threat of it. I think the threat would suffice. How do I carry out the threat in case the threat doesn't work?

 

I and all my relatives are in Ontario so that's the law we'd be working with.

 

 

Ruby I don't know about your family, but I had a similar situation with a doctor. Shortly after my deconversion I went into a depression, I'm bipolar but was undiagnosed at the time. My doctor called my home to see how I was doing, at first I was impressed no doctor had ever done that before. He then asked if he could talk to me on a more personal note, I thought "weird" but didn't say so and said ok. He proceeded to tell me about his conversion experience in the "Holy land" and how my problem was that I needed Jesus. On the phone I was just stunned, I didn't say much of anything, I'm sure you can somewhat relate, it took me so by surprise my responces were one - two sylable things like yeah, um, uh huh. After I got done speaking to him a friend of mine called, and could hear the stunned sound in my voice. When I told her she got angry, and told me to call the AMA (American Medical Association), I was all "well I don't know, not sure etc. So... she asked me all the doctors info and she reported him, for unprofessional conduct. I'm still not sure it changed much, but it felt good to know someone had "made a noise" about it. I do not know if you've already done anything, and I am afraid I do not know what the Canadian equilivant of the AMA would be, but that doctor needs to be reported. His one and only concern should have been your eyes, and that's all!

One report may not do a lot, but someone else may have had a similar problem and if they report him as well, then things add up, and he could be disiplined or worse. At the very least if you reported him I am sure he would be made aware that someone stood up and said NO! and maybe that wold give him reason to pause with others. Not because its down right rude (it is) xians have proven they care little about rude, but for fear of a worse repercussion.

 

Purple, thanks for sharing this. At least now I know I'm not the only person who "allows" such things to happen. Frankly, the responses here lead me to think I allowed it because I didn't tell him to stop. But I didn't know what was going on or that I had a right to tell him to stop. Or even that I had a right to walk out on him. He was, after all, the professional and I was there for service. I didn't know if he was done with the examination. There are so many things they do and I can't keep track.

 

As for reporting it. Maybe I'll see if I can find an address to write to. When I discussed it on here at the time and people said to report it, all I could think of was making a telephone call and I HATE calling people. What I would like to know is how come the entire clinic discharged me. What did he tell them to make himself look good? Do they have a policy to evangelize clients? It's a large clinic and I've talked to a fair number of people who get their optometric needs filled there and everyone has been shocked to hear it. So I guess it's not a policy.