disEnchanted Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 This week our local news was reporting from a popular shopping area recently decked out in holiday decorations. They were reporting that MANY people are upset by the use of the phrase "Merry Christmas." They interviewed several shoppers (at least 5 were shown on the broadcast) who said that they have no problem with "Merry Christmas" and were very upset with the thought that "all the atheists" are trying to ruin their Christmas joy. One shopkeeper said that he has his employees say, "Happy Holidays" to encompass all philosophies. (Personally, I think that's a good idea.) They featured a priest from a Catholic church, a preacher from a protestant church, and a rabbi to represent the Jewish churches in the area. All were asked: "Do you have a problem with the phrase "Merry Christmas?" None did. Even the Jewish rabbi said that it's just an expression of the season but if people really wanted to celebrate as Jesus did they would celebrate Hannukah. No Atheists and no Muslims were asked "Do you have a problem with the phrase?" I think that would have been more informative. Where are all these people who are offended? My point is this - NO ONE could be found that had a problem with the phrase "Merry Christmas." What's the big deal? Is the media trying to stir up trouble in the community to get Christians to hate non-Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 doesn't bother me. Seasons and holidays are seasons and holidays. They're a lot of fun and it seems silly to get upset by them. It doesn't bother me that the days of the week are named after norse deities - so why should it bother me that Christmas contains the word 'Christ'. Besides you can always spell it 'xmas' if you like Getting upset about Christmas is about as pointless and stupid as Christians getting upset about Halloween. We atheists don't want to be as petty as them, do we? Happy Winter Solstice anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disEnchanted Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 doesn't bother me. Seasons and holidays are seasons and holidays. They're a lot of fun and it seems silly to get upset by them. It doesn't bother me that the days of the week are named after norse deities - so why should it bother me that Christmas contains the word 'Christ'. Besides you can always spell it 'xmas' if you like Getting upset about Christmas is about as pointless and stupid as Christians getting upset about Halloween. We atheists don't want to be as petty as them, do we? Happy Winter Solstice anyway I agree. What bothers me is the news trying to stir up trouble between christians and non-christians. Isn't there enough of that already without taking the fun out of what should be a happy time? Nowadays, if you DON'T say "Merry Christmas", you get looked at as an "evil" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Getting upset about Christmas is about as pointless and stupid as Christians getting upset about Halloween. We atheists don't want to be as petty as them, do we? I agree and I think the "Merry Christmas" righteous indignation is part of the fundy persecution complex. Around here they can't get over the fact that their nativity scenes can't go on government property. There is always a big controversy started by fundys. It is ridiculous. Merry Christmas doesn't bother me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twincats Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 My understanding of the "war on Christmas" nonsense is that the christers are upset at people and companies (mostly companies and mostly retail establishments) that put forward a more inclusive approach to the season by having employees say "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas." There have been endless letters about this in the opinion section of my local newspaper for the last few years. The christers' arguments usually run along the lines of "Jebus is the reason for the season, after all!!" while rebuttals will point out that most, if not all of the christmas traditions were lifted from pagan rituals, most theologians who study these things agree that baby jesus was likely born in April and whatnot. Then the jebus trolls will argue that they're the majority, as if that makes stomping on the nonchristian minority (which is, after all, trying to abolish christimas altogether) perfectly alright. Mind you that this year there haven't been any stories (yet) in the paper to instigate these letters, they just appeared, starting with the reason for the season letter. Personally, I hope the godbots keep it up because it makes them look petty, mean and small-minded when they continually try to plant their flag in the calendar real estate between Thanksgiving and New Year's in order to claim it as their own and nobody else's. That behavior doesn't win hearts or influence people. The total arrogance and complete abandonment of the "goodwill towards men" sentiment the season is supposed to represent to these people makes me very glad I don't have to suffer the embarrassment of being connected to them anymore! So, happy holidays, everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Doesn't bother me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 It's not a big deal to me either, though I don't celebrate it nearly the same way anymore. I don't really celebrate it at all, except for the kids, and even now I don't go crazy with it. I leave that up to the other parent, who is more than happy and willing to go into debt to fund Christmas for them. Happy Winter Lights Fest! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disEnchanted Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 It MUST be a persecution complex! Yet, christians are the majority. How skewed is that? Why do christians think they have a monopoly on christmas anyway - because it's called "Christmas?" Jesus is the reason for the season. Okay, but it's also the "season" for Quirinus, Osiris, Sol, Thor, Mithra, Prometheus, Nimrod, Adonis, etc, etc, etc. I guess christians need to bone up on their mythology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Frankly, I have only one answer for this kind of subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disEnchanted Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 True, crazy-tiger, christians are DEFINITELY the majority, especially in my area of the bible belt, so why all the hype about "Merry Christmas"? Are they afraid that the "evil atheists" are going to take over their precious holiday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Someone else who hates christmas : Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Well, I think when people are new to non-belief and have had religion rammed down their throats all their lives, I can see why some people would get upset at phrases like "Merry Christmas," although it doesn't bother me. It is the name of the holiday, after all. But the whole war on Christmas thing? It's just hype being created by churches to get people to come to church on Christmas and guilt them into giving them money. I do get irritated by the overly religious music playing in some stores -- secular stores, even. How would the fundies like it if we blared John Lennon's "Imagine" and similarly themed music for a month? I'm guessing they wouldn't be very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disEnchanted Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 In my classroom I never play xmas music as the other teachers do. Instead, we are learning about dinosaurs! It's a great time of year to talk about the time before humans evolved on earth, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I think I'm a real life Scrooge. When it comes to Xmas I just don't "get it." My family never made a big deal of it. We got presents, we had dinner, we had friends/family over. Not much different from Thanksgiving except for the presents. My ex made a huge deal out of the presents for the kids and completely ruined the Xmas experience for me. It seems we bought them every fucking thing the kids wanted. Tons and tons of stuff. Every year we went into huge debt over it. Two years ago I had finally paid off the overdraft, Xmas came and we must have spent about 2 G's on stuff for the kids and whatever else. OD was maxxed again. So yeah...I don't mind when people say "Merry Christmas" and I'll say it back for their sake, but I honestly really don't get it. It doesn't mean a damn thing to me. It would be nice to find some personal specialness for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 My ex made a huge deal out of the presents for the kids and completely ruined the Xmas experience for me. It seems we bought them every fucking thing the kids wanted. Tons and tons of stuff. Every year we went into huge debt over it. Two years ago I had finally paid off the overdraft, Xmas came and we must have spent about 2 G's on stuff for the kids and whatever else. OD was maxxed again. OMG! That sounds just like my ex. Last year we ultimately ended up evicted from our duplex because of Christmas, and it wasn't me doing all the spending. Our account was always in overdraft, it seems, but especially after Christmas. We were separated this past spring, shortly after we had to move. Ever since then, I've always had money in my bank account. Funny how that works. FWIW, I was recently accused of being Scroogey because I won't spend a lot of money for Christmas. I don't really care. They get plenty. The excess always bothered me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 LOL, I figured I wasn't the only one. I have no clue what to get the kids this year...I mean, what the hell do they need? My little girl, okay, she'll be happy with anything from me. The teens? ????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 This year I'm going to wish everyone a Happy Christmas. Just to throw em off. Here's a story: I work for a large State Agency in a state that's between New York and Oregon. (well - I gotta be careful) So, early last week we get a memo from the Director - and it says something like this: "This year, as we celebrate the season, we would like any festivities that may be occurring to be referred to as "Season Celebrations". We would like to make sure that no one is offended and that we all are considerate of all points of view" So, I think, well that's kinda cool. I'm all for being considerate. So then towards the end of the week, we get another one: "Well, it appears that in spite of our best intentions, we have managed to offend people. So, call your gatherings Christmas Parties, or whatever else you like. Just try to be considerate of others" It's tough at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I like saying Merry Christmas... I like Christmas! I like giving presents. Always have. The whole 'non-story' of people objecting to 'Merry Christmas' reminds me of Der Sturm type reporting.... we have it over here about mythical Muslims who object to Xmas decs and greetings... you can't find one who objects... I suppose they'll be happy when they've drummed up a modern Krystalnacht... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I do get irritated by the overly religious music playing in some stores -- secular stores, even. How would the fundies like it if we blared John Lennon's "Imagine" and similarly themed music for a month? I'm guessing they wouldn't be very happy. They'd love it! Sure, they'd grumble about it to anyone that'd listen, but it'd be even more proof that they're being persecuted for their faith! Why yes, I am a cynical bastard who thinks they're all hypocrites... how could you tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 but your OUR cynical bastard and we love you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I love Christmas! All the good DVDs, electronics, and stuff I've been twiddling my thumbs about all year finally hit the stores (of course....I'll have to wait until after the 25th to buy stuff I want). It's a great time of year. Wish my mom would quit ruining it though. She goes all Martha Stewart this time of year striving for a "perfect" Christmas. She wants the whole puke inducing Norman Rockwell Christmas, despite going against the non-social natures of everyone else in the house (includinger hers, which gets confusing). The day after Thanksgiving, I step out of my apartment to go upstairs into the main part of the house (where the folks live) to do laundry....and it looks like Santa's wife went deco-crazy! My apartment...perfectly normal, one step outside it...North Pole explosion. And she plays pukey tear-jerky christmas music NON-STOP. She even has decorations for the fish tank (for every holiday). So...by the 25th...is it any wonder my Dad or I really aren't all that jazzed about it anymore? And let me tell ya, when mom was going through menopause....WHOOO. She'd try to force us to get excited and involved in Christmas dinner, and my dad and I would say we wanted chinese takeout instead of making a big deal.....emotional shit-storm from mom. She'd accuse us of being scrooges ruining christmas, and storm out of the house to go for a long walk through the neighborhood. Thus totally putting everything we were dong at a standstill until she decided to come back. Us? Ruining Christmas? Pot. Kettle. Black. But it wasn't worth my life to point it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I'm not offended by people saying Merry Christmas. It's not my favourite time of year, for all the reasons others have mentioned. I dread this time of year when we all spend money we don't have on stuff that no one needs. My kids don't play with most of the toys they already have and in a few weeks the house will be filled with MORE. I do find it interesting that people are always talking about who is offended by Christmas decorations etc. In the past few years it's become trendy around here to not have Christmas concerts at public schools. Some schools have stopped them altogether and others are opting for some form of "Holiday show". Gag. Our school has merrily marched on with Christmas plays. Okay, there usually isn't any mention of the baby jesus, but Santa is pretty prominent and the decorations are Christmassy and we call it a Christmas play. Ironically, our school has a large Persian (Iranian) population. Do they pull their kids out and refuse to participate, do they picket the school to stop shoving Christmas down their kids throats? No way! They love the Christmas play! They line up with their camcorders just like the rest of us. They figure that Christmas plays and gingerbread houses and all the other stuff we do at school is part of being Canadian. And they want to be Canadian. They don't want to be Christian, but they are not offended by Christmas. I do have a Jewish friend who says she gets very tired of hearing Merry Christmas by the end of December. But she's not offended. The only people who seem offended by Christmas are the Jehovah's Witnesses... and hell, they're offended by everything. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disEnchanted Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 I'm not offended by people saying Merry Christmas....... I do have a Jewish friend who says she gets very tired of hearing Merry Christmas by the end of December. But she's not offended. The only people who seem offended by Christmas are the Jehovah's Witnesses... and hell, they're offended by everything. Heather I can't find anyone who is truly offended by the phrase "Merry Christmas". So who are all these people that the media is reporting are offended? Why do they say there is a "War on Christmas"? Maybe we should all be picketing our local newspapers to stop spreading lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 War on Christmas is but a phantom cultural war, no cultural war is really justified. The atheists are blameless in this cunningly devised "war" (Goebbel would be proud of the fundamentalists' propgandistic efforts in slandering the non believers) they haven't done anything majorly wrong related to Christmas. Oh, sure, some are annoyed by Christmas's incessant capitalism and its twin saccharineness which is a corruption of its original intentions in their eyes. But that's the way people are, some are naturally apathetic towards the shock and awe of glitz and merciless money grabbing. I happen to agree with their complaints but no-one really wants Christmas to go away except for a few fundamentalists and even fewer people with a hatred (or an aversion to) of Christmas so extraordinary, the Grinch and Scrooge looks like elves of Santa in comparsion. There's mnothing wrong with hating Christmas as long as you only rant or share with like-minded people and not forcing the "Just another day, humbug!" mindset on other people. Christmas celebrators, ditto, you must not force your understanding of Christmas on others. Bah, humbug, happy times and Happy Yule to you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I love Xmas. I love all the evil pagan things about it as well. Lights, Yule logs, Trees, stockings and so forth. I also love the commercializing of it and assist that in many ways possible, it helps it to be more secular that way. I love buying presents and giving them out, I also love receiving them... allbeit one year my MIL got me 4/$1.00 tin plates as a nice fuck you present, that I didn't care for to much. But as My dad told me, It was better then getting just one plate with the sticker. Every Xmas we do Chinese food it is our tradition. Most years we get a movie in as well. I don't mind anyone wishing me Happy HunaKawnzMas, or any of the other garden verity of well wishes, that is when they are in the mood. The silly season brings around a lot of grumps I find as well. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and all that jazz.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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