I'm Done Arguing With Them

[GraphicsGuy]

I'm ranting again. I would apologize (again) because I don't like going on these rants, but the whole point is to get it off your chest, right?

 

Okay, as I've mentioned a few times I've been arguing with Xians on YouTube. Well, I've tried arguing, I've tried reasoning, I've tried talking, and they still don't fucking get it.

 

Being the fool I am I opened myself completely up, told my whole story in video, how I feel, why I left the faith, etc. Specifically this was in order to talk to one person - why I felt so obligated for him to understand, I don't know. I don't understand why I make myself do the things I do sometimes.

 

Anyway, the guy responds to my story with...the story of Job. Gee...how fucking original is that? Yeah, oh my god, gee-whillikers...as if I've NEVER heard the fucking story before!

 

I fucking HATE the story of Job simply due to that fact that it is one of the babble stories that dragged me back into Xianity time and time again.

 

The problem is that I always ignored the significance of the ending and that's what most Xians do. They ignore the fact that God makes Job feel lower than dirt at the end. They ignore that Job backs down from the bully and is intimidated into NOT ASKING ANYMORE QUESTIONS. Job says, "Sorry God, I'm scum, I repent for my doubt and for asking you to explain yourself."

 

That's my beef with that.

 

What really makes me angry is all the Xians that respond to this guys vid and to my own vids with the same old rhetoric that they won't stop parroting. Even after I pour my heart out there's still the assholes that say, "Oh, you weren't REALLY saved."

 

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT! THAT LINE MAKES ME ANGRY ENOUGH TO EAT LEAD AND SHIT NAILS!

 

So, I'm done arguing with the fundy assholes. I'm not going to answer their comments or their vids on YouTube anymore. If they go after any of the ex-xians that I've met on there then I'll tear them a new one, but if they come after me, I'm ignoring them. They aren't worth my time or my sanity. Fuck 'em. If they want to turn off their brains and worship their power-monger god without ever asking "why?" then fuck 'em.

 

Thank you for listening once again...

[The-Captain]

Hey whats the rant section for if not this?

 

I dont really have much to say as I agree with just about everything you just said, just one thing.

 

On the subject of Job, HOW IN HELL does it make it okay to get a set of replacement kids after the first ones die!!!!!!WTF!! Thats why Job never worked for me, the first set of children that he had raised and known were what, walking object lessons?!?!? And he is okay with it b/c god does what? Says Im god, nuff said be glad I dont fuck you over worse!! But the kids are replaced as easily as the sheep and camels in the "happy ending"!!!

 

ARGGGGHHH!!!

 

Youtube idiots are a waste of time, hell just reading the comments makes me all bitter and cynical for hours..

[Legion]

GG, I don't know if you remember this tune but I think it is appropriate here....

 

 

 

We can dance if we want to

We can leave your friends behind

'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance

Well they're no friends of mine

I say, we can go where we want to

A place where they will never find

And we can act like we come from out of this world

Leave the real one far behind

And we can dance

 

We can dance if we want to

We can leave your friends behind

'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance

Well they're no friends of mine

I say, we can go where we want to

A place where they will never find

And we can act like we come from out of this world

Leave the real one far behind

And we can dance

Dance!

 

We can go when we want to

The night is young and so am I

And we can dress real neat from our hats to our feet

And surprise 'em with the victory cry

Say, we can act if want to

If we don't nobody will

And you can act real rude and totally removed

And I can act like an imbecile

 

I say, we can dance, we can dance

Everything out of control

We can dance, we can dance

We're doing it from wall to wall

We can dance, we can dance

Everybody look at your hands

We can dance, we can dance

Everybody takin' the cha-a-a-ance

 

 

Safety dance

Is it safe to dance

Is it safe to dance

 

S-s-s-s A-a-a-a F-f-f-f E-e-e-e T-t-t-t Y-y-y-y

Safe, dance!

 

We can dance if we want to

We've got all your life and mine

As long as we abuse it, never gonna lose it

Everything'll work out right

I say, we can dance if we want to

We can leave your friends behind

'Cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance

Well they're no friends of mine

 

Is it safe to dance, oh is it safe to dance

Is it safe to dance

[Ouroboros]

There's a strong possibilty that the story of Job came from Sumeria, just like the flood and the Genesis story.

[GraphicsGuy]

I'm a music imbecile since I mostly only listened to Xian music most of my life so I had to look this up...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qW0Edq1KqI...feature=related

 

Pretty cool! And yeah, I guess the lyrics do kind of fit the situation...

[The-Captain]

I'm a music imbecile since I mostly only listened to Xian music most of my life so I had to look this up...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qW0Edq1KqI...feature=related

 

Pretty cool! And yeah, I guess the lyrics do kind of fit the situation...

 

LOL...thats the stuff, I was only born in 1988 but 70s, 80s, and early 90s music will always be the music for me

[Taphophilia]

You know I find it easier when dealing with Xtian's when I'm defending someone else than trying to defend myself. The reason being, I don't have the emotional ties in defending someone else. It's an intellectual resonse rather than emotional. Seriously, they are coming at you with emotional ploys. Christianity works on your emotions. If there were not so many emotionally needy people in the world, Christianity wouldn't be as strong as it is.

[GraphicsGuy]

Are you always this smart, Taph?

 

Thanks.

[Taphophilia]

Are you always this smart, Taph?

 

Thanks.

 

I'm glad my thoughts were useful to you.

 

Taph

[Thurisaz]

Well, I've tried arguing, I've tried reasoning, I've tried talking, and they still don't fucking get it.

 

Whenever I tried to argue with a morontheist directly, the absolute best I got out of it was the rare true statement "I don't understand". No shit man!

 

Never forget, they live in la la land. The only ones who might possibly be convinced by your debating stuff with them is the fencesitters. If one of them morons of course already has damn many doubts (let's be honest, they all do...), your points may just erode its house of cards some more... but one shouldn't bet on that.

[Brother Jeff]

I'm a music imbecile since I mostly only listened to Xian music most of my life so I had to look this up...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qW0Edq1KqI...feature=related

 

Pretty cool! And yeah, I guess the lyrics do kind of fit the situation...

That song and the video ROCKED. It still does. In some ways I wish it could be the early 1980s forever since life was so fucking awesome back then...

 

You might find this article at my glorious site helpful. I wrote it a few years ago, but it still applies:

 

http://christianityisbullshit.com/brainwas...-of-the-church/

 

Glory!

[GraphicsGuy]

Whenever I tried to argue with a morontheist directly, the absolute best I got out of it was the rare true statement "I don't understand". No shit man!

 

Yeah, the best I ever got out of anyone was from two Xian friends, my pastor, and my Xian counsellor. All of them gave me, "I don't know why you had to go through that." They KNEW me and KNEW they didn't have ANY answers.

 

The average fundy automatically jumps to the assumption that you were never really saved because that's the most comforting thought to grab hold of. To them (and this is practically quoted) Ex-Christians simply cannot exist.

[GraphicsGuy]

You might find this article at my glorious site helpful. I wrote it a few years ago, but it still applies:

 

That was an excellent article, Jeff! Well written! To the heart of the matter!

[Brother Jeff]

You might find this article at my glorious site helpful. I wrote it a few years ago, but it still applies:

 

That was an excellent article, Jeff! Well written! To the heart of the matter!

Thanks! I'm glad it was helpful. Glory!

[Checkmate]

Well, graphicsguy, welcome to the wonderful world of "Fuckitall." That glorious stage of apostasy where you finally realize that arguing and explaining yourself to Xians is an absolute waste of time, and you move on to more profitable things. (Such as watching paint peel, listening to grass grow or nailing your head to the floor. ANYTHING is better than fucking around with Xians! )

 

We've ALL been there and we COULD have warned you beforehand, but it's something we all must learn and go through personally. It's very much like going through the stages of grief. By venting your spleen and arguing with Xians you achieve some level of "closure." You've confronted your "demons," told them to get fucked and closed that chapter of your life. NOW you can settle back, relax and get on with your life.

 

Cheers!

 

~ Checkmate

[GraphicsGuy]

...and you move on to more profitable things. (Such as watching paint peel, listening to grass grow or nailing your head to the floor. ANYTHING is better than fucking around with Xians! )

 

LOL...that was the damned funniest thing! And true.

[R. S. Martin]

Hey GG, thanks for posting this thread, I needed it, too. Esp. Checkmate's advice about the more profitable things in life. Whew! If that stuff is more profitable than fucking with xians...'nuff said.

[Wally]

On the subject of Job, HOW IN HELL does it make it okay to get a set of replacement kids after the first ones die!!!!!!WTF!! Thats why Job never worked for me, the first set of children that he had raised and known were what, walking object lessons?!?!? And he is okay with it b/c god does what? Says Im god, nuff said be glad I dont fuck you over worse!! But the kids are replaced as easily as the sheep and camels in the "happy ending"!!!

 

Great quote, Doctor. That always bothered me too. It was one of those nagging doubts or troubling points that I had to "accept by faith". It's also disturbing that God allowed Satan to test Job just to assess his character. That's rather malicious, if you ask me.

 

Part of my Christian experience involved going to a major Pentecostal college in the midwest. A lot of PK's (pastors' kids) and MK's (missionaries' kids) went there. Obviously there was mandatory chapel five days a week. But there were also highly-encouraged Christian extracurricular activity that was supposed to "minister to others" and "bless your soul and bring you closer to God." I tried a lot- street witnessing (which was overwhelmingly terrifying to me given I'm an introvert) and missionary trips. None of it ever made me feel any better. In fact it probably made me feel worse, less worthy. One time when I went "street witnessing" at a mall with a group from college, we met a married couple that had been Christian for 17 years and had even spoken in tongues that was at that point ex-xian. Honestly, I was terrified. Secretly I was horrified that I too could go down that road. I didn't berate them, argue with them, or even have much of a discussion with them. I just listened. I was pretty shy then, plus I don't think berating people is the most intelligent approach to discourse or persuasion (it just shows a lack of intelligence and/or information).

 

Anyways, Christianity for me was never about the joy that was always promised (if you give more, do more, believe more, etc.). I was laden down in fear and depression. Maybe (and this is no justification, just a possible explanation) some of the people that are nasty to ex-xians are just "defending" their faith because deep down they have doubts and are afraid of "burning in hell" if they yield to those doubts.

 

Anyways, I finally fully left church 2-3 years ago. I had gotten tired of the manipulation, lies, abuse, blah, blah, blah. My brother and I are in the same boat. My mother and sister both still believe, though my mother refuses to attend church due to how messed up and cruel churches are these days. My father, though, is a religious monster. To him religion is a blood sport. He comes home from work bragging about the "funny" things he's said to co-workers while "witnessing" to them (read: cruel things he's said while harassing them). I could go on and on with the abuse he's rendered to our family by using religion, but I'll save that for another time. In the last 30 years or so, he's go from being Episcopalian to Pentecostal to Messianic Christian. He thinks when "Jesus returns", we are all going to speak Hebrew. In fact, he even started taking Hebrew classes today (no joke!).

[Neon Genesis]

Yeah, the best I ever got out of anyone was from two Xian friends, my pastor, and my Xian counsellor. All of them gave me, "I don't know why you had to go through that." They KNEW me and KNEW they didn't have ANY answers.

That reminds me of how I was recently debating with Christians on youtube about Christianity. It didn't even really start off as a religious debate but just sort of escalated into a discussion about the existence of God and the authority of the bible. What annoyed me the most (even more so than them constantly dodging my questions that I had to keep repeating myself to get them to answer) was when they claimed I wasn't taking their "proofs" of the existence of God by faith like Paul did, as if they somehow know what a complete stranger is thinking and if I just believe like they do, then that'll somehow prove to me God is real. I told them then that I used to be a Christian myself and took it by faith for years. That shut them up and they actually admitted that they didn't have any answers to my questions and I haven't heard from any youtube Christians since then. It just pisses me off when Christians assume that I'm just being stubborn and not taking it by faith because they're blatantly ignoring Jesus' commands to judge not lest thee be judge by making assumptions about the way people think. That and assuming that they know everything about me is rather rude. And I still never got any answers from them as to why does God murder children.

[SWIM]

I dont think it ever will be as simple as explaining to someone "Hey you thought 1+1=3 but the answer is really 2". This is NOT a matter of correcting someones poor logic, it is a matter of overcoming brainwashing and FEAR.

 

Delusional people will never listen to logic. It takes exposure to the truth over and over many times, one vid or two is not going to convince them they are wrong, they are too scared of either dying and being DEAD or going to hell.

 

Think about it, if you are right, they die and are gone forever, or god sends em to the devil. If they are right they go to heaven, if they are wrong they just die and be dead, no hell involved.

 

The POWER of the spirit of pascal's wager, no matter how foolish the wager is, it appeals to simple minded people. You can explain how wrong the wager is, but right behind you are 10 xtians to take your place saying "better be safe then sorry, err on the side of god".

 

This will always be a powerful persuader for them, why do you think "hell" doctrines were invented to start with? They can blame "devil" influences when they do wrong, without xtianity they have no scapegoat either.

 

That's a lot to give up for simple minded people, and they won't give it up without a fight either, it just offers too much from a psychological point of view.

 

However, all that being said, the above should inspire you to patience. It takes patience. You probably did not deconvert overnight, or on the viewing of one vid, so don't expect them too either.

 

What you are doing by making your vids and doing your rebuttals on their vids is ADDED to the pool of knowledge needed for people to finally break free. If you are making deconverts, most won't say so for fear of reprisal, and you may be adding blocks to the great wall that may one day hold back the army of darkness that IS religion.

 

Don't stop my friend, fight the good fight. Those that you help de-convert may one day find themselves here to thank you. That would make it all worthwhile.

 

/peeptalk

[Skiergirl24]

I totally hear you. What gets me is that the story of Job is completely WITHOUT LOGIC! What omnipotent, benevolent God would purposely torture a loyal follower? Fucking retarded. My Catholic cousin is constantly trying to get me to come back to faith. She talks about miracles etc. I want to smack her in the face. Show me a decapitated man who grows another head and then I will believe in miracles. I met with a proest after my mom died and all he could say to me was "I don't know why it happened." We debated and I poked holes thhrough all of his arguments. Well then what the fuck good are you as a spiritual leader if *I* know more than you do?

[Amethyst]

Yeah, I've given up arguing with them for the most part, too. It's just not worth the headaches and the stress. I just tell people "I don't care to discuss religion" and leave it at that. If they insist, I keep repeating that statement until they give up and go away. Thankfully, I haven't met very many people in real life who are that annoying.

[GraphicsGuy]

Wow, bunch of extra replies I didn't see! Thanks all!

 

Michael, that was great. I appreciate that. I was debating with myself about throwing in the towel completely, but what you said is encouraging. I guess I just feel overwhelmed with a lot of issues lately so I'm not certain if the extra stress is doing me any good. I'll take a short hiatus for a bit and see what happens. Computer issues at the current time make it so I can't make vids anyway...well, I could, but I'm too lazy to put my dual 600 back together at the moment! lol

[woodsmoke]

Are you always this smart, Taph?

 

Thanks.

 

She's obviously too modest to confirm it, so I'll do it for her.

 

Yes. She is always that smart.

 

If one of them morons of course already has damn many doubts (let's be honest, they all do...)

 

I think this the parenthesized there is fallacious, and I wonder sometimes whether it's a case of exes projecting their own experiences onto believers. I know for myself, at least, it wasn't at all true. I don't remember ever having a single doubt about my faith when I believed. My cognitive dissonance was absolute; my faith compartmentalized totally separate from my reasoning. Even in areas where there was an obvious contradiction between doctrine and what I understood to be physical reality (such as the Xian Creation myth, that of Noah and the great flood, etc), it never even occurred to me there might be an actual conflict there. I usually just chalked it up to the former having been intended as an allegory and believed God had done most things the natural, scientific way simply because it was the most logical explanation--and if I was smart enough to see that, surely the omniscient creator of the universe had been as well.

 

It wasn't until I was 17 and kind of all at once decided I just didn't care anymore that I ever examined my faith and the things I'd been taught as a Mormon with anything even vaguely resembling a critical attitude. Before that, even during my 8th grade year when I swore like a sailor and didn't give much thought to religion at all, I simply believed unconditionally.

[qadeshet]

There's nothing wrong with a good debate, if you're in the mood. It's actually fun making Christians squirm. Debate on your terms, and only when you wish.