What About Jesus?

[BlueGiant]

I am taking the stance that Jesus is irrelevant. More specifically, the question of existence, death, manner of death, etc doesn't matter 2000 years later. There is no vindication to be had any way you slice it. However, the fact is that the stories and sayings do exist, and that there is occasionally some gems in them that can be taken out and used. What can we get out it, take away and improve ourselves with (even if only to understand a completely batshit system of thought).

 

The important part never was the man, the important part is the story, though most conservative and even some mainline charlatan-christians would disagree with me (my own extended family included). It is that way with myths and books of other kinds, why should this be any different. A story doesn't have to be true to be useful, and it most certainly doesn't have to be true to be exploited.

 

Disclaimer: my personal philosophy and beliefs involve beating other systems over the head, dragging them into the alley and rifling through their pockets for spare ideas. Kind of like how English gets grammar and vocabulary.

[mwc]

Maybe he was bipolar?????

 

That would explain a lot.

Actually it wouldn't. I am bipolar, and I am NOT violent at all, GODDAMMIT!

Yeah, but maybe you just orbit different poles?

 

Seriously, it's a myth that mentally ill folks tend to be violent. The vast majority of them actually aren't violent, and it annoys me when I see them depicted that way.

I remember being in psych class and the prof tells me that he'd rather be in a room full of schizophrenics with a knife on the table instead of a room of "normal" people and the knife since the former would all stay away from the knife because they'd be afraid someone else would get it and stab them but the "normal" people would try to all get the knife for the same reason. I agree that most folks are quite harmless.

 

As for the jesus thing I'm going to have to cast my vote into the vaporware category. But you never know...he could get released anytime now (Which will come first? jesus or Duke Nukem Forever?).

 

mwc

[Sophronia]

Maybe he was bipolar?????

 

That would explain a lot.

Actually it wouldn't. I am bipolar, and I am NOT violent at all, GODDAMMIT!

 

 

Seriously, it's a myth that mentally ill folks tend to be violent. The vast majority of them actually aren't violent, and it annoys me when I see them depicted that way.

 

As for Jesus, I'll go with #3.

 

I apologize if my words came out wrong; I did not mean to offend nor to imply that all mentally ill folks are violent.

 

As for myself I am not bipolar but certainly can be categorized as mentally ill in various other ways. And one of my best friends is bipolar. So let's scrap any notion that I am prejudiced against bipolar or mentally ill folks.

 

However, I know from personal experience what can happen when bipolar people, or others suffering from certain illnesses, go untreated and do not recognize that something is wrong. Though you may not be violent, some bipolar people do become violent, and often this is at least partly because of their untreated illness. Having been the spouse of a bipolar person I have had considerable experience in this particular realm and can vouch for the violence and hallucinations and other delusions that can occur. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ALL, OR EVEN MOST, BIPOLAR PEOPLE ARE THIS WAY. HOWEVER, SOME OF THEM ARE.

 

Again, note: My comments do not mean that I would classify ALL bipolar people the same way. That would be like saying that all mentally ill people will behave like Brittney Spears. Obviously that is not the case. I certainly do apologize for offending you if I did so. I KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT VIOLENT. However my armchair diagnosis - actually, let's call it a hypothesis because that's what it really is - stands.

 

 

edited to add: Lots of people who are not bipolar are also violent. Hence violence is a Human condition in general. It can however be affected by and exacerbated by untreated mental illnesses including but not limited to bipolarity. This post is not meant to diagnose, treat, or cure any medical conditions.

 

no offense intended

i mean to say, NO OFFENSE INTENDED

 

MY APOLOGIES TO ANY OTHER BIPOLAR PEOPLE WHOM I MIGHT HAVE OFFENDED BY COMPARING THEM TO JESUS

[xandermac]

2 or 3. Either way he doesn't exists in my head anymore.

[Scott_In_Michigan]

I really like this topic. It's one that I am still not sure about.

 

When you look at Christianity from a historical perspective and compare it to older religions, cultures, beliefs, writings, and customs, the idea that Christianity is an original concept spawned by a single man begins to hold much less credibility. To assume that the supposed "word of God" and the teachings of a single man were written and survived untarnished for over 2000 years is ridiculous. Even if we could assume that Christ did live and that he was an influential teacher, to dismiss the fact that the Romans would not adjust the texts that went into the Bible in such a way to further their goals of world conquest is, yet again, nothing but ignorant. Political jockeying and manipulation was alive and well during Roman times, and I have no doubt that what we see in the Bible is either heavily manipulated older texts that were molded in such a way to make assimilation of the mystery religions easier, or it was composed entirely by the very council that supposedly assembled the Bible, and that they composed it all as a tool for the aforementioned assimilation and conquest.

 

So, I'm torn between two different options.

1. Christ didn't exist as a real man, but was actually a mythical figure "created" by the Romans as a tool of sorts to be used for their conquests.

2. Christ existed, but was more of a pain in the ass of the Romans due to his work as a prophet, so they used him in conjunction with their creation of the Bible to give this newly created religion an actual name and person to associate with, as well as to generate more credibility.

 

There is a small part of me that likes to imagine a third option being true. I'd love to learn someday that Jesus Christ was nothing but a common man who was the victim of coincidence and an unlikely object of worship by others.

 

 

 

[Mythra]

In the event that Jesus did exist, and if the stories we have of him are anywhere near the truth, I think I could accept these (#4 & 5). But ultimately, since I Wasn't There, and Lack The Time To Do Proper Archeological/Historical Research

 

It wouldn't matter if you had all the time (and learning) in the world, Sophronia.

 

If there was some jewish teacher / philosopher in the first century who spawned the Jesus movements, he is lost to us. The textual clues that remain for us are not enough to ever find out who this person was.

 

Even for those people who do nothing but study this issue, there is no consensus.

 

The only thing that is agreed upon (except by the faithful - who remain blissfully ignorant of the evidence) is that the Jesus stories found in the gospels are either wholly or primarily the product of human invention.

[MathGeek]

To me, it is pointless. If I had to choose, maybe 3 and/or 4. There is no unity on the subject of the existence of Jesus anyway. Furthermore, I don't apply my speculation to Muhammed or Buddha or Manichaeus or whoever else because religious knowledge, experience, wisdom and all that are mutually exclusive to the way reality really is. The way humankind progresses, copulates and reproduces and how the universe works and acts up will occur whether or not we believe in a Jesus-like figure. I spook-ulate about Jesus every now and again but I'd prefer to prove a number prime by hand than let my fingers walk over the Bible. Theology is disinteresting, the philosophy that exists independent of theology is more enlightening.

[smellincoffee]

I don't think it's possible to know what the "real" Jesus was like. However, the biblical Jesus is a real demogougic prick.

[R. S. Martin]

Still, as for what I think of Jesus. Well, for one if he did exist, if the Bible is true, and if he really is a spook in the sky then I actually don't trust him. The Bible promises a lot and comes through on none of it.

 

I don't have too much to add to that as it regards the religious and spiritual levels. However, I like the mythical Jesus.

 

I do tend to pick and choose my "Jesus" parts just like I did while still a Christian, and I come up with a pretty good guy. I guess my mind is divided. I can think in Christian mode and I can think in skeptic mode. The "Christian mode" operates under the clause "providing he existed and the Bible is true."

 

I take Jesus as a mythical figure who is very vivid to me--more vivid than any other mythical or fictitious figure simply because he was the only story available to me most of my life--maybe like Star Trek is for some other people. Thus, that story is very deeply embedded in my brain and I impressed it in a way that made sense to me personally in light of my own life experience. This was a personal exercise totally outside the supervision or pressure of church or organized religion. In the secret of my own room, I've written journal-like stories about Jesus that reflect my own family and community experiences because I see parallels in his situation and my own. This bridged my deconversion experience. I don't think I will ever give up Jesus as a symbolic figure...well, as I get to be much older and live much longer than he did, maybe this will change. He served as a template for much of my life and this was very important to me. I can still identify with him. These days I can see him as anti-religious, as activating against organized religion.

[Max]

I think of Jesus as sort of like Elvis - there was a real person there to begin with, probably charismatic, maybe a good teacher - but all sorts of extra junk got piled on afterwards. And now we don't have any real way to separate fact from myth. Except that the stuff that doesn't make any sense probably isn't fact.

[hereticzero]

I think there was a study done for a lot of money and they learned that the number one cause of insanity is reality. If Jesus were alive today, he would be smoking dope in Amsterdam and denying any cupability with Christians. He would have some serious PR repair going.

[Skiergirl24]

Here is what I think:

 

Jesus is the pagan God Mithra/Horus/Dionysis etc. rehashed to create a "new" savior figure. Nothing about the Christ story is unique...it is all a ripoff of pagan sun gods.