hereticzero Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Marjoe Gortner was a child evangelist, the youngest ever at age four, and continued throughout his teenage years before leaving preaching and turning to movies. 'In the late 1960s, Marjoe suffered a crisis of conscience — in particular about the threats of damnation he felt compelled to weave into his sermons — and resolved to make one final tour, this time on film. Under the pretense of making a documentary on the evangelical and non-denominational faiths, Marjoe assembled a documentary film crew to follow him around revival meetings in California, Texas, and Michigan during 1971. Unbeknownst to everyone else involved — including, at one point, his father — Marjoe gave "backstage" interviews to the filmmakers in between sermons and revivals, explaining intimate details of how he and other ministers operated. After sermons, the filmmakers were invited back to Marjoe's hotel room to tape him counting the money he collected during the day. The resulting film, Marjoe, won the 1972 Academy Award for best documentary.' Read the rest of the article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe_Gortner There are films of Gortner on Youtube explaining his years as an evangelist. Anyone else have any experiences as a child evangelist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Here is a YouTube film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSdI8ag1k0A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 His parents used child abuse to make him memorize scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Here is a portion of his expose'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush country Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Marjoe Gortner was a child evangelist, the youngest ever at age four, and continued throughout his teenage years before leaving preaching and turning to movies. 'In the late 1960s, Marjoe suffered a crisis of conscience — in particular about the threats of damnation he felt compelled to weave into his sermons — and resolved to make one final tour, this time on film. Under the pretense of making a documentary on the evangelical and non-denominational faiths, Marjoe assembled a documentary film crew to follow him around revival meetings in California, Texas, and Michigan during 1971. Unbeknownst to everyone else involved — including, at one point, his father — Marjoe gave "backstage" interviews to the filmmakers in between sermons and revivals, explaining intimate details of how he and other ministers operated. After sermons, the filmmakers were invited back to Marjoe's hotel room to tape him counting the money he collected during the day. The resulting film, Marjoe, won the 1972 Academy Award for best documentary.' Read the rest of the article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe_Gortner There are films of Gortner on Youtube explaining his years as an evangelist. Anyone else have any experiences as a child evangelist? I remember seeing him on some TV shows back in the 70's like Marcus Welby MD. Considering I was a fundy then, I wondered how someone could be so evil as to give up the ministry for acting. Vaguely remember something about the documentary. Have to check it out if I can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I've seen Marjoe's documentary. I loved it. It was uncomfortable on so many levels, but soooo good... it makes a really great double-header with Jesus Camp, fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 This is one poor, fucked up, kid. Plain and simple, child abuse. Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 I'd get smacked if I didn't get ready for church. The way I learned church doctrine was having it yelled at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Guy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 here is the entire documentary uploaded onto Google vids. the mispelling is intentional so that it is hard to find. In fact, searching with this mispelled title won't even bring it up. the quality is awful - looks pixelated. The DVD was from original remastered films and looks/sounds great. Also make sure you check out the other 3 offerings under "more from this user". really good stuff. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=10...34947&hl=en a great uploaded existed on a UK site - I made the mistake of posting the address on a lot of public sites and it was taken down - I think probably by the original director of the film who started emailing me trying to get in touch w/ Marjoe. I personally don't believe the child abuse stories - very Dickensian - but you have to remember marjoe was born a con-artist and still is one to this day. You have to take everything that comes outta his mouth w/ a grain of salt. as you are watching the film, keep in mind something a very sharp critic noticed - that just as surely as Marjoe enchants his congregational flocks, you watch him enchant his merry little band of film crew. He works his magic on whatever crowd he is heading. corrections: marjoe never did a marcus welby. he was not a "fucked up kid". he was a bright boy he always knew exactly what was going on. He emerged from the whole thing AMAZINGLY unscarred. the parents tried to turn his little brother into the same prodigy but poor little guy hid at the back of the choir seats and developed ulcers, totally unable to perform. any Marjoe trivia you need answered - ask away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Great stuff. Really enjoyed the full documentary. It's all a show - and even though those in the audience may really, really believe... even though they claim to be so in touch with God and of discerning spirit... they fell for it then and they fall for it in droves today. It was said more than once: religion is a drug!!! I don't fault him for taking the money, because they want to give it. He was doing the work - giving the people what they wanted - and as a performer, he was being paid for it. He grew weary of the double life and that's something that probably many his kind of did and eventually got out. I know I did. For every time he felt like bowing out, there was someone right there to entice him with the profits of another record sale, another prayer cloth sale, and another love offering as he brought in the members of a pastor's congregation and gave them the show they wanted. Business. All business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaiDan Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 There's a whole bunch of videos on yutube about child Imams. Creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Can the new poster make good his assertions about the current status of Mr. Gortner's honesty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Guy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 hhhhhhhhmmmmmmm as in has he lied to me personally? My conversations w/ him have been so brief that I don't think he had the chance, outside of his usual blarney and sexual banter. It would be an ego boost to think he would consider me worthy enough to lie to. But, yeah, he still likes to tell a few whoppers. As far as his organization is concerned there is alot of cause for eyebrow raising that I'm not gonna expose here. He's pretty careful to fly under the radar. He has shifted pretty much all of his events to outside the US, and sends the money back home. I know LOTS of his current employees, and the loyalty between boss and employee is a 2-way street. And I've been with one of his best friends when we decided to try to pull a fast one on Marjoe, but we chickened out & didn't follow thru, knowing full well we can't shuck and jive like him. After all, he still bills himself as "The Holy Hustler". I've heard very few people ever mention Mr G in a bad light, one being an A-lister friend (using the term loosely) who lives in my town who tried to back out of some money he's pledged last fall. He refered to Marjoe as "a brat, such a money-grubber that he can't let me slide on 4 grand". I happen to know alot better who the "brat" is in that situation. And I'M the one who happened to get said A-lister back on Marjoe's guest list after the moron damaged Marjoe's porsche in a parking lot and drove off. Another worrisome comment was from a hotel manager who has worked in conjunction with Marjoe for 21 yrs. He told me stories for hours, and kept saying things like "he's a bad person. Still a cheap hustler. Treats women like dogs." Honestly I think this manager was trying to warn me off my obvious starry-eyed infatuation w/ Mr. G, but every tale of shady dealings only made me admire him more. OK I'm rambling but maybe you could be a bit more specific in your questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 Any time a christian bad mouths someone else for being a fraud, it makes me suspicious of the christian. Considering Gortner has not been arrested for being a con man or cheap hustler so I'd say the accusations are baseless. No one hustles or cons anyone better than christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 It's all a show ... Business. All business. That's pretty much every church, ministry, and televangelist, isn't it? And tax exempt at that. What a nice racket! Kelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Guy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I have no idea if the hotel manager I quoted is a Christian or not. Didn't occur to me to wonder. And what accusations? Marjoe totally owns being a hustler. He'd be a bit offended at the term "cheap" hustler. He considers himself a very pricey hustler. And he hasn't been arrested since the 70s. He's clever. Hey my only goal in coming to this site was to post the link to the uploaded movie. As soon as someone started this thread it google alerted me - I just joined to post the link so everyone can watch it free(albeit fuzzy) without waiting for netflix. Marjoe really DOES encourage people to watch the film to set the story straight. And in his autobiography he points out the places where he lied in the film. I have a google alert set up to look at net postings and choose whether or not to inform Marjoe's staff. If i think its newsworthy, flattering, or perhaps infringes on any of his copyrights, I forward it. If it's hurtful, or just the same old same old, I don't. I don't like to see Marjoe hurt. He's too old to deal w/ any more nastiness. There's even a rumor he's thinking about retiring. I don't really think Marjoe is as "anti-christian" as this board would like to paint him. He probably can't afford to be, and still get such a broad spectrum of celebs and politicos to attend his parties. I did notice last yr that he was wearing elaborate turquoise and hammered silver cross cufflinks at the black tie finale. And not just x's either, definately religious shaped crosses. Perhaps they were a gift from a grand child, or a politician. Who knows. But they were huge and he was wearing them big as life. Would I ever question him about it? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Guy Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 oh and the above car denting A-lister moron I mentioned above DOES call himself a christian. kinda. sometimes. when it's convenient for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Well regardless thanks for the link BadGuy. I'm watching it now. Edit: About halfway through, very interesting. I confess I knew very little about him, he does certainly understand what is going on. Clever, and a bit funny in a cynical sarcastic manipulative way. Further Edit: That service was one of the scariest things I've seen today. I'm slightly ashamed to be a human after seeing the way those people act. To any ex-pentecostals out there my condolences. Uber-Edit: Finished.....wow. Some things have changed, but at its heart I see modern evangelism as being much the same. These are just the blatantly obvious hucksters, interesting though that even they are never short on followers and donations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush country Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 corrections: marjoe never did a marcus welby. Well, excuse me....only about 35 years ago so sorry for not remembering the exact show. Probably I'm remembering him from Kojak or Barnaby Jones, possibly Police Story. Unless IMDB is wrong too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Marjoe really DOES encourage people to watch the film to set the story straight. And in his autobiography he points out the places where he lied in the film. A poster who believes in spooks and magically undead sky men (to quote Brother Jeff) is showing us a clip of a liar telling us he's lying, at times. The irony (and the bs) deepens by the syllable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Did any one see Derren Brown on converting people? http://www.derrenbrown.co.uk/news/messiah All the psychology laid bare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Can't wait to sink my teeth into this one... [EDIT] And so I have. I even got a new sig out of the deal! We're all easily manipulated. Regardless of our beliefs, we can be swayed. In watching the documentary with Derren Brown, one thing jumped out at me in particular. People WILL see what they want to see. He's an expert and he's very good at what he does - his skills are a product of intense observation and suggestion and I'm glad he didn't go on to say how he'd done the things he did in the presentation. I'm certain that if one were to want to discover such methods, they're out there to be found and I'll lay odds on the fact that they've been around for a very, very long time. The document encouraged me and caused concern at the same time. I was encouraged in the fact that I know I'm on the right track in putting religion and all things of such nature out of my life. I'm happy about that to be certain. However, I'm concerned that many whom I know and care about are still in the thick of it and that even though I'm much further along in my journey of deconversion, I'm not out of the woods. I can still be manipulated and swayed. Further education will narrow the gap by which the assault may come, but only knowledge and experience are going to close it once and for all. Great offering, Grandpa Harley. I've enjoyed this thread immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Marjoe really DOES encourage people to watch the film to set the story straight. And in his autobiography he points out the places where he lied in the film. A poster who believes in spooks and magically undead sky men (to quote Brother Jeff) is showing us a clip of a liar telling us he's lying, at times. The irony (and the bs) deepens by the syllable. There's something too smooth, too confidential and artistic--too con-artsie--about Bad Guy's posts for me to trust him. He "knows" stuff he shouldn't for his reports to be true. He pretends to be giving us here at exC special attention with his priviledged presence. Bad Guy says:I have a google alert set up to look at net postings and choose whether or not to inform Marjoe's staff. If i think its newsworthy, flattering, or perhaps infringes on any of his copyrights, I forward it. If it's hurtful, or just the same old same old, I don't. I don't like to see Marjoe hurt. He's too old to deal w/ any more nastiness. There's even a rumor he's thinking about retiring. See how Marjoe's very existence depends on Bad Guy's judgment? But he says it so as to make us here feel special for being considered important enough for the confidential revelations he's posting here about a popular guy. Very, very suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bad Guy Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 See how Marjoe's very existence depends on Bad Guy's judgment? But he says it so as to make us here feel special for being considered important enough for the confidential revelations he's posting here about a popular guy. Very, very suspicious. woah, Marjoe's existence? ummm, he's pretty real. I only met him a yr and a half ago. I only mention the google alert to explain how I stumbled upon your warm and fuzzy little community. I have google alerts (and other search engine alerts) set up on loads of topics. If you want the board ungooglable, just make it a private board. I DID say I forward stuff to his STAFF, not to Mr. G himself. And they'll take care of screening it. Mostly its an excuse to email them so they won't forget me the next time the guest list is made up. We call it internet schmoozing. Don't you forward stuff to your friends if news about them turns up on the internet? I thought that was normal behavior. and make you feel special? ewwwww. that's kinda creepy. I didn't divulge any confidential revelations. Anyone who's attended the parties for the past 21 yrs knows all this stuff. Except maybe the part about the guy who called him a brat. And that's not much of a revelation. Hey watch the movie or don't. just figured it was easier than trying to piece together all those youtube clips that were linked here before my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Lets apply Occam's Razor to this and be done. Thanks for the vid link Guy, very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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