Grandpa Harley Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 If you take notice of their PR yes and yes if you want my opinion no and no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hi Michael For me I think I am realistic about the bible (I could be blind as a bat though and not know it) in that to me you can find a witness to whatever you tend to believe in your own heart in there somewhere. Just as you can find the opposite of what is in your own heart in there as well. I know this seems wrong to some folks but because I do not see the bible as infallible nor inerrent I tend to only give attention to a verse that resonates with my own inner heart. Some see this as cherry picking. Only I dont feel I go pick them, I instead feel they pick me. When I read suddenly one verse will just jump out to me and agree with my own heart. Its not a search to find that event, its simply noticing when it does happen. That is when I feel I understand, not what the writer was necessarily trying to convey, but I understand more my own inner heart. I guess that is the only reason I read the bible too. Its a personal thing, not to try and gain knowledge so I can teach others or debate or whatever. Those days are long gone for me. And that to me is more religion and not so much a personal thing. Im not much about group think personally. I cant say that I for sure understand what the writers were saying as I would have to be in their culture, their time, with their own understanding to do that imo but I can grasp what speaks to me personally. Therefore, I really have nothing to give anyone else either accept my own understanding. And how do they grasp that? If they cant get inside me? sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 Some see this as cherry picking. Only I dont feel I go pick them, I instead feel they pick me. When I read suddenly one verse will just jump out to me and agree with my own heart. Thank you for this open reply. As a xian I used to read the bible this way and it always left me confused. I usually said, that "gods spirit brought something to my attention". Our pastor preached this way, every sunday, every wednesday night: gut-bible. But I am someone who wants to understand things, I want stuff to make sense, but more important, I want to be honest. As I discovered, that other xians did the same and got different results, I gave it up. To me there is either one god who is unchangable or there is none. I was tired of looking for excuses for the mess of the bible. I understand your point of view, but to me, in 20 yrs the bible did not match with my life experiences. I wonder what the bible is good for? If there is no salvation in this book, than why all the fuss about it? Some say, that the bible is the "manual" for mankind. But it is the worst manual ever and I can not understand, how some people can find the "truth" in it. I imagine someone on an empty island would find a copy of the bible, how could this poor schmuck could understand god or salvation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 But this is actually an argument of xians. They say, that 88 different books, from different times and regions are making this wonderful sense making book. That is one reason why some people think that this book is holy (OT is matching NT in many many points...) btw. 8+8=16 1+6=7 Yes of course this is what they say, especially Protestants. Saying something is a wonderful sense making book and it actually being a wonderful sense making book is not the same thing. Protestants need the book to be an authority because they don't have a Pope to be an authority. Therefore it has to make sense The Roman Church is not as rapped up in the bible since tradition and the Pope are of equal or greater authority to it. Not as much sense is required. By the way there are 66 books the protestant bible. 6+6=12 1+2=3 And three as we all know equals one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 When I read suddenly one verse will just jump out to me and agree with my own heart. Gee the same thing happens to me when I read Noam Chomsky. So why stick with the bible? You could probably get the same results reading The Hunting of the Snark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojourner Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hi chef I agree in that the same thing happens with all kinds of books, movies, music and nature. Im not limited to one book. sojourner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Some see this as cherry picking. Only I dont feel I go pick them, I instead feel they pick me. When I read suddenly one verse will just jump out to me and agree with my own heart. Thank you for this open reply. As a xian I used to read the bible this way and it always left me confused. I usually said, that "gods spirit brought something to my attention". Our pastor preached this way, every sunday, every wednesday night: gut-bible. But I am someone who wants to understand things, I want stuff to make sense, but more important, I want to be honest. As I discovered, that other xians did the same and got different results, I gave it up. To me there is either one god who is unchangable or there is none. I was tired of looking for excuses for the mess of the bible. I understand your point of view, but to me, in 20 yrs the bible did not match with my life experiences. I wonder what the bible is good for? If there is no salvation in this book, than why all the fuss about it? Some say, that the bible is the "manual" for mankind. But it is the worst manual ever and I can not understand, how some people can find the "truth" in it. I imagine someone on an empty island would find a copy of the bible, how could this poor schmuck could understand god or salvation? TBH it's the way the Aramaic mind set worked... if you take the NT Greek of something simple like the Lord's Prayer, and take it back to the Aramaic words that the Greek vocab used was translated to you end up with the same number of lines but a huge number of different possible meanings of which O, Birther of the Cosmos, focus your light within us -- make it usefulCreate your reign of unity no Your one desire then acts with ours, As in all light, So in all forms, Grant us what we need each day in bread and insight: Loose the cords of mistakes binding us, As we release the strands we hold of other's guilt. Don't let surface things delude us, But free us from what holds us back. From you is born all ruling will, The power and the life to do, The song that beautifies all, From age to age it renews. I affirm this with my whole being. is just one of the 16777216 possible equally valid meanings, based on an 8 line version. Basically, unless you had a big crowd, any two people coming away with the same idea is remote... I'd refer the interested to Prayers of the Cosmos by Neil Douglas-Klotz (German link) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Aramaic would have been the perfect language for politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Aramaic would have been the perfect language for politicians. At least then it would make more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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