Parents Pray Instead Of Seeking Medical Help

[xandermac]

story here

 

I never understood this kind of thinking even when I was a xian. I almost died when I was a kid with pneumonia because of "Faith".

Do you think they should be prosecuted?

[Grandpa Harley]

Nailed to a tree...

[Jubilant]

Utterly heartbreaking. You know, I am a big user of alternative healing with myself and children but if those things do not work it is off to the doctor we go. These parents sicken and disgust me and I never understood the attitude when I was a Christian either. Pray, pray, pray but for goodness sake, use a doctor in the meantime! God gets the glory regardless, even when a doctor is used.

 

I think they were negligent and should receive some sort of punishment but that damn freedom of religion thingy will probably prevent such from happening. I do not doubt that they loved their daughter and are saddened by her death, however, it does not excuse their lunacy.

[Guest eejay]

This should prove that prayer is a farce. I doubt these people lacked faith in any way shape or form, or they wouldn't have even attempted that as a cure. Things like this is just what drew me away, because the reality is, if prayer really worked there would be no disharmony, no hunger, no crime because it would be all prayed away. I just have a hard time to understand how ridulous that people who believe actually become. It is really frightening and dangerous how far a fanatical belief can go. But because religion has a free pass, we can legislate out bullshit like this, until a crime actually happens. In this case, negligence. These people may get a little jail time, but you know, they'll say it is god's will that their daughter died, and god's will if they go to prison. I am just so glad I don't have that fucked up mentality. I'd like to put a challenge out to x-tians. I'd like to see them run across an 8 lane highway without looking, knowing that jesus will protect them. I know it sounds cruel but I'd just like to see how far their stupidity goes. Maybe once we knock off a few of them then maybe some? will see the reality.

[D Laurier]

No sign of abuse????

 

THERES A FUCKING DEAD CHILD HERE FOLKS! DUH

 

TREATABLE form of diabetes.

Sick for 30 days.

 

These parents need to be sterilized with a sharp rock

[hereticzero]

Hell, yeah, prosecute them.

 

A friend of mine is a diabetic and he was telling me he thought Jesus would heal him if he had enough faith to quit taking his insulin. I told him he was going to die before Jesus did anything for him. He kept taking his shots.

[Jubilant]

I posted this over at a mom's board this morning and even the Christians (all but one) are sickened about this whole thing. The only one not troubled was one lady who said it is the parents choice whether or NOT they CHOOSE to seek medical attention and that forcing parents to seek medical attention may bring unwanted side-effects such as forced teeth cleaning, forced going to the doctor for a cold, etc., etc. I wrote and told her that I think the decision of these parents brought about a terrible *side-effect*.

[elana]

I am saddened, sickened, appalled. There doesn't seem to be enough NASTY words in my vocabulary to describe my thoughts or feelings after reading this tragic story. There are many insane minds out there and I believe the 'Church' is responsible

 

for creating many of them. How many children, or innocents have died or been forever maimed or traumatized because of the insanity that is called 'Christianity'?

 

elana

[Guest Net Eng]

story here

 

I never understood this kind of thinking even when I was a xian. I almost died when I was a kid with pneumonia because of "Faith".

Do you think they should be prosecuted?

 

Here's what diabetic ketoacidosis does to you [LINK]

 

This is what this poor kid went through before death. As a diabetic myself I thing that both parents should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!

 

Gads this kicks up my blood pressure.

[Abiyoyo]

story here

 

I never understood this kind of thinking even when I was a xian. I almost died when I was a kid with pneumonia because of "Faith".

Do you think they should be prosecuted?

 

This is sad and disturbing. Why would any human being with even the smallest amount of common sense not take their child to the doctor? I never understood this either about some Christians. Also, the damn state, and government are about crooked with this situation. Kids get called in to Defacs for hair looking uncombed, or pee pants left in a bag without even talking to the parents, and are questioned, looked at, examined, because 'one' had said 'one' thing to a teacher; which puts a threat to the family of the child being taken.

 

Yet, parents can not take their child for obvious treatment; and get away with it. Is there a law for this or something? Religious belief over humanity and scientific provisions. If faith was all that people needed; then thousands wouldn't have died from illnesses we now have common cures for. Fever, infection etc. Many I would assume prayed for that; and many died of these common illnesses.

 

Last time I checked, Christ never said; You need no medicine, doctors, help.

[Grandpa Harley]

I seem to recall anything asked in my name... oh and 'all I have done and more by the least among you' are the specific areas of 'problem'

 

You've still not explained the Easter challenge... makes no sense to the 250 years of collective Christian experience here, not even the former clergy...

[Neon Genesis]

Last time I checked, Christ never said; You need no medicine, doctors, help.

I guess that verse where Jesus said to ask and ye shall receive must have been chopped liver. And what about James 5:13-15? "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. " I don't see anywhere in these verses where it tells Christians who are sick to go to the hospital and get healed through medicine. The only thing I can see is the bible commands Christians to pray to God and they'll be healed. It says so right here. It doesn't say that medicine will save them. It says the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. Nope, can't see where it says anything about Christians going to the doctor.

[Dhampir]

Last time I checked, Christ never said; You need no medicine, doctors, help.

I guess that verse where Jesus said to ask and ye shall receive must have been chopped liver. And what about James 5:13-15? "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. " I don't see anywhere in these verses where it tells Christians who are sick to go to the hospital and get healed through medicine. The only thing I can see is the bible commands Christians to pray to God and they'll be healed. It says so right here. It doesn't say that medicine will save them. It says the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. Nope, can't see where it says anything about Christians going to the doctor.

yeah, but it doesn't not say it either. Remember, it's as much about what isn't said *that allows christians to interpret it any old way*, and is therefore a valid position to take that christians who use secular medicine are just as faithful as others.

[Neon Genesis]

But God also healed people directly with his magical powers and the bible says that God does not show partiality. So, if God uses his magical powers to heal one person but doesn't use his magical powers to heal this girl, then isn't God showing partiality to the people he did heal?

[Dhampir]

But God also healed people directly with his magical powers and the bible says that God does not show partiality. So, if God uses his magical powers to heal one person but doesn't use his magical powers to heal this girl, then isn't God showing partiality to the people he did heal?

I believe it says god is no respecter of persons, which means god is only as partial as his most careless whim. It's not so much that god was partial to the person whose cancer he sent into spontaneous remission, he just didn't feel like healing the girl. Least that's how it looks to me. At any rate, most christians will say, without realizing the irony at all, that that's his right, and that he is 'all-good' regardless.

[Mike D]

Oops I didn't realize someone had already posted this story. Oh well there's another one in the news section now

[Jubilant]

This ministry defends the parents and says that this occurred over one, not thirty days. http://www.unleavenedbreadministries.org/?page=pressrelease

 

I don't know, something does not add up here...a relative in California was what caused the authorities to step in. Maybe some more investigating is needed because to me, it appears as if she was sick quite long than one day.

[Grandpa Harley]

you don't die of that in one day... either someone is lying about the CoD or someone is lying about the length of illness... I'd put my shilling onthe ME telling the truth.

 

I was about to put that this sort of thing you expect to hear of in some backwoods part of the former Soviet Union or some third world hell of witch doctors and muti murders... then I realised, it is some Third world, back woods, hell, replete with 'witch doctors'

[Jubilant]

Gramps...I completely agree with you. IMnotsoHO, Unleavened Bread Ministries is not only full of shit but to the fanatical mind by saying "For those who have their FAITH there...." meaning "faith" in doctors, it could have one thinking that by using a doctor that they lack faith in Christ. Couple that bullshit up with a mind who fears going to a place of eternal torment and it will lead to death, such as the case presented in this thread.

[SWIM]

This is one example that supports my arguement that religion is delusion and causes more harm then good.

 

This is clearly the direct result of the damage religion inflicts upon society.

 

Reminds me of the snake handlers, and poision drinkers you see on documentaries sometimes. Maybe this is natures way of weeding out the weak minded from the gene pool? It's sad that the innocent victims, the children, have virtually no say in the matter. It is criminal behaviour and should be treated as such.

[Abiyoyo]

Last time I checked, Christ never said; You need no medicine, doctors, help.

I guess that verse where Jesus said to ask and ye shall receive must have been chopped liver. And what about James 5:13-15? "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. " I don't see anywhere in these verses where it tells Christians who are sick to go to the hospital and get healed through medicine. The only thing I can see is the bible commands Christians to pray to God and they'll be healed. It says so right here. It doesn't say that medicine will save them. It says the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. Nope, can't see where it says anything about Christians going to the doctor.

 

 

Last time I checked, Christ never said; You need no medicine, doctors, help.

I guess that verse where Jesus said to ask and ye shall receive must have been chopped liver. And what about James 5:13-15? "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. " I don't see anywhere in these verses where it tells Christians who are sick to go to the hospital and get healed through medicine. The only thing I can see is the bible commands Christians to pray to God and they'll be healed. It says so right here. It doesn't say that medicine will save them. It says the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. Nope, can't see where it says anything about Christians going to the doctor.

yeah, but it doesn't not say it either. Remember, it's as much about what isn't said *that allows christians to interpret it any old way*, and is therefore a valid position to take that christians who use secular medicine are just as faithful as others.

 

 

But God also healed people directly with his magical powers and the bible says that God does not show partiality. So, if God uses his magical powers to heal one person but doesn't use his magical powers to heal this girl, then isn't God showing partiality to the people he did heal?

 

 

I meant commonsense. God never said 'don't' use common sense, as to going to the doctor. This is a debatable subject with many different possible views in which I'd rather not argue about. Some say Jesus heals, cancers gone, vanished whatever; then you got a kid that dies when prayed for. Doesn't make sense; admitting that; and saying I don't know why that is and would rather not argue about it.

 

The way I usually view things, situations of this nature is like this. We all die. Thats a constant. We all get sick. Thats a constant. Jesus was accredited to heal the sick, raise the dead, etc also bestowing that on His disciples. Why would someone take that literally in such a degree in which it overrides commonsense. Thats what happened here. Its sad. If Jesus gave this 'power' to Christians that believed in Him, I'm sure that we wouldn't have any medicine, sickness, death. He would have healed them all and everyones ancestors would still be here.

 

But, that isn't the case. The constants are still constant. We die, get sick. The only logical explanation to why Jesus healed in the Gospels and it doesn't happen to that degree in modern days; personally I think it is because of error in details. The Gospels say the Holy Spirit was upon Christ without measure; maybe it is in us in measure based upon us.

 

Its not a faith thing, or 'how much' someone believes thing. Its commonsense. The people should have taking their child to the doctor. Signs. Relative called the police. Some people, even to God, are stubborn. Why God let the child die. Dunno. Never will. Jesus healed people that couldn't be healed by normal means( To the best of my knowledge). Jesus did the unimaginable, even some would be looked unimaginable in todays age.

 

Thats what I meant, I apologize if it came out wrong.

[Grandpa Harley]

Whoa there God boy... 'common sense'? 'COMMON SENSE'? Since when did faith have ANYTHING to do with common sense? Most ot he trip eyou post has nothing to do with Common sense... ref the Easter Challenge, hell you even invoke Jesus there... COMMON FUCKING SENSE? YA THINK? God's death but you're an idiot...

[R. S. Martin]

Yoyo, I don't know what to make of your answer. There was a time when I would have accepted it more readily. But what I'm seeing is so many different Christians all coming up with their own version of doctoring up the old doctrines to fit with science, yet not going all the way. How can anyone know where to draw the line? How can any human presume to know what God "really" meant?

 

Most humans find it a major challenge simply to understand each other. How, then, can they presume to understand God whose thoughts, according to the Bible, are so much higher than human thoughts as the heavens are higher than the earth? The Bible says his ways are past finding out. Yet Christians claim to know something was God's will--or was not God's will. How, I ask, can any human presume to make such a statement?

 

As Neon Genesis so clearly points out, the Bible very unambiguously tells people to use prayer and other religious means to heal people.

 

In response to the question being asked about prosecution. I think any religious action that results in the physical harm of another person needs to be viewable in terms of legal offense. Hmmm. I guess that would put such traditional practices as the circumcision of baby boys under the microscope.

[Abiyoyo]

Yoyo, I don't know what to make of your answer. There was a time when I would have accepted it more readily. But what I'm seeing is so many different Christians all coming up with their own version of doctoring up the old doctrines to fit with science, yet not going all the way. How can anyone know where to draw the line? How can any human presume to know what God "really" meant?

 

Most humans find it a major challenge simply to understand each other. How, then, can they presume to understand God whose thoughts, according to the Bible, are so much higher than human thoughts as the heavens are higher than the earth? The Bible says his ways are past finding out. Yet Christians claim to know something was God's will--or was not God's will. How, I ask, can any human presume to make such a statement?

 

As Neon Genesis so clearly points out, the Bible very unambiguously tells people to use prayer and other religious means to heal people.

 

In response to the question being asked about prosecution. I think any religious action that results in the physical harm of another person needs to be viewable in terms of legal offense. Hmmm. I guess that would put such traditional practices as the circumcision of baby boys under the microscope.

 

Ruby,

 

I see the Bible, God of Israel, God in Jesus, Jesus, Holy Spirit; in so many different aspects I can't think of it all at one time. You have Christ telling disciples that He can't reveal certain things to them, for it would not be comprehended from their mind. Then you have God himself saying He can't 'dwell' with us because His spirit can't strive with us.

 

Yes, Isaiah prophesied that God said His ways are higher than our ways. No, someone doesn't 'know Gods will' for the individual life. How could they? Thats saying that you are basically God. There are signs of struggle/success, life altering occurrences, etc that may point to an indication of God willing someone to do a certain thing, or 'fill' a certain purpose. But, for someone to say that its 'God 's will' is mostly a cop out in most Christianity. Thats my personal opinion.

 

Circumcision. Why would that be under microscope. It is medically proven to be heather than uncircumcised. We have access to medical findings, research, knowledge of the human body, medicines; in no comparisons to early times. The diagnosis, and treatability of this girls condition was common knowledge. Not something unknown, or retained for only the elect.

[Neon Genesis]

Whoa there God boy... 'common sense'? 'COMMON SENSE'? Since when did faith have ANYTHING to do with common sense? Most ot he trip eyou post has nothing to do with Common sense... ref the Easter Challenge, hell you even invoke Jesus there... COMMON FUCKING SENSE? YA THINK? God's death but you're an idiot...

I'm not even going to bother responding to YoYo's response because it makes no sense whatsoever and I can't understand a word YoYo is saying. So, I won't respond, YoYo, until you make common sense because I really don't understand a word you just said.