"all Humans Ar Born With An Innate Desire To Worship"

[Tyson]

I'm sure you all have heard it many times and for those claiming it, we poor unbelievers are just suppressing the natural because we just want to be heathen scumbags. So my Ex-Christian compadres, what say ye on this subject? Do you know of any websites that puts this argument to rest once and for all?

[Guest eejay]

I am definately not an expert on stuff like this, but I do remember hearing something on tv that mentioned something about some people being born with a "god" gene. Can't really elaborate, but it was within the past 2 years for sure. Can't even remember what kind of broadcast is was on, whether it was a news program or something else. Anyway it was almost what you are talking except that some people have this gene, and some do not.

[florduh]

You might find some useful information and some links here:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...lution+religion

 

- Chris

[Ouroboros]

I don't think it can be completely innate, because I've met people that did not have any inclination towards religions, questions of life, meaning etc at all, but where completely functional as human beings. And my understanding is that this kind of a-religious person is like this from birth. Another problem with the "innate" claim is that people born and raised in atheist homes have no need or wish to worship (or rather whore-ship, after all, you pay with your life to be saved from a frigging unjust eternal punishment and get some magical eternal life in heaven, if that isn't some form of whoring, that what is?) an imaginary being.

[Neon Genesis]

Not to mention that saying that people are born with a belief in God is like saying people are born with a belief in Santa Claus.

[Guest eejay]

Why wouldn't some people just be naturally more gullible? For all the beatings and brainwashing that I withstood, something in me just wouldn't buy it.

[Mike D]

I've heard some Fishtians say we're all born with an inherent knowledge of god, but never that we're born with a desire to worship. Actually the more I think about it, the more asinine that sounds. Born to worship what? I've never had a desire to worship anything in my life, except maybe when I was young and stupid I worshipped someone I had a crush on. Either way, both are baseless claims with nothing but anecdotes to substantiate them.

[SWIM]

I think it has to do with human tendencies to lead or follow. Since the world is filled with more "followers" then leaders, it makes sense. Throw in a heaping dose of fear of death, and you have masses groveling at the feet of an imaginary god...

[hereticzero]

Man is used to being ordered to worship. Man is not born with that desire, it is taught. Christian babble even says man did not always worship god, rather, there was a time when man did not. God did not have a major scene with man until 'man began to call upon the Lord.'

 

And there was also a son born to Seth, and he called his name Enos. Then men began to call upon the name of Jehovah. (Gen 4:26)

 

Until this time, man did not worship god as a religion. I believe this scripture points to this time of no religion and when it began.

[kozimoto]

I highly recommend "Breaking the Spell" by Daniel Dennett. You could probably find some google info from him.

The book is about a natural cause for the phenomenon of religion, and he has many chapters dealing with "innate worship".

 

some ideas are -

 

Humans "talk to" lots of inanimate objects (our computer, the key that is stuck in the lock, etc) in order to attempt coercion. It is an extension of our intentional stance (ie we think we know another person's/object's intention). So worship could be a further expansion of this - talking to something (and idol, or the corner of the room) in order to coerce it. This would be especially true if we felt that the object's intention was to deny us. Hence pleading with god to be healed.

 

Another idea is about pigeons and superstition (I've attached a link).

The pigeons displayed superstitious behaviour when given treats at random intervals - they would dance, bob, weave. It seemed to be an elaborate "worship" ritual to bring the food. Humans may have a form of this - something good (or bad) happens, and they try various rituals to recreate the cause of the good thing, or to prevent the reccurance of the bad thing.

 

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Skinner/Pigeon/

 

There are also lots of theories around as to why evolutionary process might have favoured these mindsets, making them highly represented (though by no means the only mindset!) today.

[Ouroboros]

Ah, it's innate desire in the pigeons to worship humans. That proves that humans exist.

[hereticzero]

Ah, it's innate desire in the pigeons to worship humans. That proves that humans exist.

Pigeon goddess.

[Legion]

I don't know if humans have an innate desire to worship. But if some do then I suspect it is a holdover from days long gone when the troop had a single alpha male, much as chimpanzees do. For them it may be wise to hold a certain reverence for the big guy.

[DarthOkkata]

I personally think it's much simpler, and has nothing to do with god.

 

Humans congregate. That's instinctual. We're social creatures that exhibit flock behavior. It's just that simple.

 

Like with so many other things in the universe, christians like to put their god where he doesn't belong. Wedging him in with a crowbar and sledge hammer if they need too. I imagine they'd staple a photocopy of Jesus Christ's face over the head of the Mona Lisa and claim it as a miracle if they could.

 

Just because people like to form big groups, doesn't mean that everyone watching the next Indiana Jones movie has a secret desire to demand the film stop playing so they can form a prayer circle right then and there in the theater because there are too many other people around and it's instinct.

 

It's nothing but another irrational way for them to pat themselves on the back and act like everyone else is just like them, and only they do it the way they're supposed to. They pretend things like this are facts, so they can have something to say to the heathens of the world who ask difficult questions like: 'Well, that sounds nice, but can you prove it?' or 'Why on earth would you believe that?'

 

I suppose it's nice to have something besides: 'Because this poorly written book printed on swiss cheese told me.'

[chefranden]

I think that humans are born with a bias towards faith in something other. A human is way more likely to become a member of a cult than not. That has to point to something. One would suppose that this tendency would be at least neutral in evolutionary matters if not beneficial in some way. I think of it as a side effect of consciousness. We can be conscious of things that are not real as easily as being conscious of things that are real. We have a good deal of trouble discerning the difference, so much so that people developed a method of thinking (science) that helped unravel the real from the not real. Unfortunately religion rather than science is the default human setting.

[Antlerman]

They have to first define what they mean by worship.

 

Just a quick wiki search offers these things which are considered acts of worship:

Typical acts of worship include:

 

* prayer;

* sacrifice;

* rituals;

* some forms of meditation;

* holidays, festivals;

* sacraments;

* pilgrimages;

* hymns, psalms or worship music;

* dance

* the construction of temples or shrines;

* the creation of idols of the deity.

* private acts of devotion

I would agree that humans have a propensity towards ritual, in daily activities and as part of social function as a means of reinforcement of behaviors. That would cover most of the list above. Prayer is a form of focused meditation. If we don't have a god as a focal point for these, then we find something else as the object of this so called 'worship'.

 

So it's really an argument of metaphysical naturalism which sees that "structure causes function", versus a teleological approach which views it as having an intended design for a specific result. I would say that we created 'worship' as a result of our propensities for ritual and structure, and that God or the American Flag are simply found (or created) objects for that end. Whereas they would take the end result and look backwards from that point and say the worship of that god was the intended reason behind why we are the way we are, i.e. 'we were born to be religious,' or 'we were born to be patriotic'.

 

Of course the problem with that IMO, is that it starts with the conclusion and presumes that the final form existed in some yet unrealized manner before the structure (i.e., in the mind of God). When this happens, flaws in design begin to be exposed. Whereas if you see finality as non-intrinsic, it's then merely an adapted purpose or function, and there really is no intended design that can be shown to be flawed.

 

Really it all boils down to a perspective that views "design" from the bottom up, versus from the top down. Bottom up design to me is vastly more consistent with everything we can observe.

[Legion]

I sometimes meditate but I don't see how it is a form of worship. All I am trying to do is observe my own thoughts and emotions.

[Jedah]

This is actually one of the things I was told while I was attending Christian school ( Jr High. Ugghh ) by teachers - that people have the innate desire to worship. The first thing I did was look in myself and think "ermmmm....no I don't..."

 

Later on I figured it was just another subset of the many self-deluding things the delusional like to tell themselves to keep them from questioning - similar to the popular "I Know that I Know that I KNOW its true !" that is muttered in the back of the minds of religious folk alongside other people who also happen to generally lack that oh so seemingly difficult ability to pass the Sally-Anne test.

 

They most likely feel that if we were born with an innate desire to worship that it proves the existance of Gawd. Except, the problem is anyone who seriously looks at humanity as a whole will find that we don't seek out that which to worship - we seek out that which we can use to give ourselves meaning in life.

[Guest sbwilley]

Skeptic and Skeptical Inquirer have both done book reviews on The God Gene.

 

If we are all born with an innate desire to worship, then why was I punished so often for misbehaving, not keeping quiet, rustling papers, crawling under the pews, etc.? Why is it that a main reason I quit attending is that church is boring as hell? Why did I always look for an excuse to cut out, even when I was studying theology?

[Hrothwulf]

I certainly wasn't. I only even anticipated Christmas because of the toys.

[Ouroboros]

Another thought... if some "innate desire" to do X, is the proof that it's good, it's from God and something we should always do, then the innate desire to have sex is also something good (contrary to Christian teachings), it's from God and something we should always do (that's hedonism, and not very Christian!). We also have an innate desire to go and take a dump whenever we feel the bowel movements to do so, which means...

[mahjong]

I think that human beings have an innate desire to be grateful. To me, worship of a god limits our gratitude.

 

Right now my daughter, who is 25, is having a very 'strong' feeling about god. She prays and says to god that she won't ask for too much. One day she was saying to god that she was sorry for a bit of trouble she had gotten into and for procrastinating on her community service, which got her arrested on a bench warrant. She was promising god to do better and apologizing to god. Instead of telling her don't pray or talk to god, I told her to be good to herself, forgive herself for the trouble she caused herself and promise herself not to procrastinate when a judge gives a sentence. She caught on right away, patted herself on the leg and promised to be good to herself from now on.

 

But she is back to praying again. She is not bothering me, since most people believe in and pray to a god. My point is that we want to pray to god instead of meditating on our circumstances and seeing where we can do better.

 

To me, worship is gratitude for all the wonderful things in the universe. I don't know where they come from, they are just here. When I look in the sky and see the stars I know that I am finite. That is all I need to know to keep me 'right sized'. My heart fills up with joy and wonder, and I have the exact same experience in my heart as religious worshipers have.

 

When there is some painful ordeal on the news, I am torn and sad, and I wish there was something I could do. I feel powerless to help, in most cases, and I know this powerless feeling makes people want to pray to god to help. But I know that if prayers can help here, the same god could have prevented the terrible circumstance to begin with. I often think, "there but for the grace of god go I." I have my own translation of what 'god' means to me. I don't believe in a personal god or even a creative god. To me, god is just the part of life that I don't understand and have no control over. I feel no need to worship anything or love something I cannot see that does not appear to love me.

 

So there's my 2 cents worth. Cheers, y'all... mj

[alpha centauri]

I can recall as a teenager often having the innate desire to skip out on church services and go for a walk, sometimes to the nearest convenience store and pop quarters into video games.

 

My desire for worship wasn't nearly as strong, and now it's gone altogether.

[Guest Freepagan]

I don't believe that all human beings are born with an innate desire to worship. However, I do believe that many people are born with a budding sense of awe for nature. When I was a kid, I loved the great outdoors, and I still do. But my worshipful response to the "creator" was learned from religion. Since I've deconverted, that learned response waned quite rapidly.

[Stephen_Richard_Webb]

Well, it depends on what you mean by worship...and it depends on where you derive your perspective. People who are religious tend to think that everyone worships something, I've heard numerous times from christians that man who doesn't worship god worships their own ideals, or material things - worship in that context simply means to have ones attention drawn away from god by something else. People that aren't religious tend to think that the previous context of 'worship' is invalid, because worship to the non-religious implies intentional praise of something as opposed to just being occupied with everyday life.