De-conversion

[Guest end3]

In retrospect, did your de-conversion serve a role in preparing you for life events after de-conversion.

[florduh]

De-conversion was not a goal with a purpose, but just an inescapable conclusion. It was not thought out or intended to prepare me for anything, but the rewards have come nevertheless.

 

 

I now focus more clearly on the present condition and help people in practical ways.

 

I don't worry that someone who dies may not have "known the lord" and is therefore condemned to eternal torture.

 

I'm not anxious about an impending "rapture."

 

I don't waste time trying to fit every news headline into the "end times" scenario.

 

I try to help people have better lives here and now, rather than try to get them the ticket to heaven.

 

I no longer practice daily mental gymnastics to make real life experience jibe with my beliefs.

 

I can accept reality as it presents itself.

 

I can accept people on their merits without the filter of Christian judgement.

 

 

 

 

So, yeah, I guess I am better prepared to handle life. I am happier and less stressed as well.

[par4dcourse]

I was going to reply, but Chris put it so well there's no need. Read above and add ditto for me.

[Michael]

@end3

Are you going for something special? Have you got an example for what you are talking about?

 

Right now, I do not know what to do with your question.

[par4dcourse]

@end3

Are you going for something special? Have you got an example for what you are talking about?

 

Right now, I do not know what to do with your question.

End's quite the clever squiddie. He got away from the normal drivel when he saw it wasn't working. Now , he's posing seemingly innocent questions that I strongly suspect, like Michael, are going to culminate in a wondrus if:then conclusion that will re-convert us all.

Good luck, bible boy, and you're going to need it if the aforementioned is the case.

[Guest end3]

My ole dad came to visit yesterday, see the grandchildren, etc....he's 71 and lives in CO....we live in TX. We were going to a playground so we could visit and watch the children play, as their visits, he and his wife, are often brief. This playground is in the neighborhood where I, dad included, was raised and resided for 15 years. His wife drove them, as he did not remember where or how to get to the park.

 

I guess, long story short, it just hits you when you see mortality in your parents.

 

This morning, I was thinking about the possibility of dads death and hell, as dad is a de-converted Christian.

 

As a Christian to this point, I was wondering if my stay here at ex-c, and subsequent perspective changes, are a preparation for his death.

 

I realize this puts a God or purpose in the equation, and was wondering if anyone had viewed their de-conversion from that prospective.

 

The point is, dad is a normal guy, with good intentions, more or less, for his whole life. The fact is, as I have been taught, dad would be in hell.

 

Just trying to make sense of it all...

[SWIM]

In retrospect, did your de-conversion serve a role in preparing you for life events after de-conversion.

 

 

You know, if you are a decent person to start with, you don't "need" a 2000 year old "moral compass" to prevent you from being an asshat. If you have respect for other people, and good moral judgement, there is no "need" for a guide.

 

It's like what a comedian once said, "I hate it when people brag about doing what they are supposed to do. Like when someone says, I never went to prision, your NOT supposed to go to prision you moron! Or, I never beat my kids.. Your not supposed to beat your kids you dumb shit"... LOL Funny comedy routine, but it smacks of truth.

[Michael]

My ole dad came to visit yesterday, see the grandchildren, etc....he's 71 and lives in CO....we live in TX. We were going to a playground so we could visit and watch the children play, as their visits, he and his wife, are often brief. This playground is in the neighborhood where I, dad included, was raised and resided for 15 years. His wife drove them, as he did not remember where or how to get to the park.

 

I guess, long story short, it just hits you when you see mortality in your parents.

 

This morning, I was thinking about the possibility of dads death and hell, as dad is a de-converted Christian.

 

As a Christian to this point, I was wondering if my stay here at ex-c, and subsequent perspective changes, are a preparation for his death.

 

I realize this puts a God or purpose in the equation, and was wondering if anyone had viewed their de-conversion from that prospective.

 

The point is, dad is a normal guy, with good intentions, more or less, for his whole life. The fact is, as I have been taught, dad would be in hell.

 

Just trying to make sense of it all...

 

Me too.

 

So you have the idea, that god is preparing you for the possible death of your ex-xian father? So god is preparing you and not any deconverted people.

Where is the connection to the OP?

 

end3, just be patient with me. Sometimes my english is a mess and I need some time to get the point.

[Guest end3]

You are right Michael,

One possibility is God might be preparing me by changing my perspectives, i.e. being here at ex-c, but I am also wondering what would be the purpose of hell for people that just did the "best" they could during their lives. Like I say, dad did good....we were never hungry, cold, nor without shelter.

 

Like white raven says, probably the best answer is "I don't know"...

[florduh]

End, you try so hard to make everything fit your current notion of Christianity. Dad will die, and you MUST believe at this point he will burn eternally in Hell. Or, you are free to twist scripture to fit your current situation.

 

If it's that hard to make sense of it, well, hello?

[Michael]

I am also wondering what would be the purpose of hell for people that just did the "best" they could during their lives. Like I say, dad did good....we were never hungry, cold, nor without shelter.

 

You should ask god. Maybe he will give you the answers that he did not give to all the people at Ex-C.

Hell is a strange concept, and the love of god is a strange concept. As I mentioned in another thread: What kind of victory is it, when 95 % of all people go to hell and only 5 % or less will be "saved"? What kind of love ist it? What kind of loving father? Ah, yes, gods justice can not accept sinners in heaven and the only justice that is acceptable by god is Jesus. So when you do not accept this "fact", no way to heaven.

I know that in this forum are people who loved god with all their strength and who would have given everything, but god just put them on his "ignore-list". Instead he accepted people like David and Benny Hinn and I am sure you know more annoying people that are saved.

 

Look at the strange way of gods parenting. I am sure your father tried his best (most of the time), he might have been with you when you were sick, when you were afraid at night. You might have spent a good amount of time on his lap, enjoying his companionship. He nurtured you, took care of you. God claims to be the best father ever and yet his love is not available to all his "children". In 20 yrs of xianity, I gave my entire being to god just do discover that he is not interested.

 

If salvation is his choice and not available to everyone, than god is cruel to let people fall away from him.

[Guest end3]

A very real point Florduh...I will just see where it all goes....possibly a new understanding or not...

 

Thanks Michael.

[Legion]

In retrospect, did your de-conversion serve a role in preparing you for life events after de-conversion.

Chris said it well I think. I didn't set out to de-convert. It was a necessary consequence of pursuing understanding.

 

But I tell you End, knowing Christianity as myth has opened many doors of access to some very cool people. And they otherwise may have rightly kept me at arms length.

[florduh]

End, I am curious if your father tried to de-convert you, and if you tried to re-convert him. My dad and I took opposite roles to yours, but we pretty much just ignored the elephant in the room. Excuse me if you might have covered this before, but it's the first time I realized your dad was an ex-C.

 

- Chris

[Guest end3]

Oh yeah, many times Chris, from both sides...

 

We do "battle" often(in a good way), matter of fact he gave me the book, "My Inner Fish", I believe is the title, this time on his visit. The good news is he is becoming more graceful in his "old age" and we can talk and discuss perspectives without conflict. He has been helpful in that regard, and doesn't crush me for where I am at now. The sad thing being, we are just at that point where we have put our swords down and started "understanding" perhaps.

 

LR,

My understanding lead me to dancing on stage giving the children's sermon Easter Sunday at the Church of Christ (you know, the one's that don't dance), so my delving into further understanding, regardless of opinion, will land me where it does. I don't know what to tell you.

[Legion]

My understanding lead me to dancing on stage giving the children's sermon Easter Sunday at the Church of Christ (you know, the one's that don't dance), so my delving into further understanding, regardless of opinion, will land me where it does. I don't know what to tell you.

No problem End. This is my point, the pursuit of understanding lands you where it does. I looked for understanding and in the process I de-converted. I didn't intend to de-convert. It is where I landed.

[florduh]

Understanding is a good start. One of the big problems with Christian dogma is the refusal to recognize that a differing opinion could be just as valid. When you think you have the corner on the one and only truth, dialog vanishes.

[Legion]

When you think you have the corner on the one and only truth, dialog vanishes.

I agree Chris.

[Guest eejay]

Wow...this is turning out to be a really good thread. I don't think that you really have to worry about your Dad spending eternity in hell, but the fact that this is what your religion is telling you...does kind of shed a whole new light on things, doesn't it? The actual event(s) that led to our deconversion is a personal thing for each and every one of us here, but it all started with having questions that we really had to start looking at. Some people were fortunate in never having had the brainwashing, but I think the majority if us are deconverts. Sometimes it can be a series of events, or something that just is so blatent that we just can't avoid it. Why god would eternally punish someone who really was a decent person who did theire best, is one of the exact examples of why questioning sometimes begins. Unfortunately, End3, the god you choose to worship is an evil being. Maybe it's time you took a look at things from the other point of view. Good luck with your dilemma.

[white_raven23]

In retrospect, did your de-conversion serve a role in preparing you for life events after de-conversion.

 

Yes.

So did having breakfast.

And putting on shoes before I left the house this morning.

 

Everything we DO serves a role in preparing us for life events. Sometimes the preperation is adequate, sometimes it's not. We live each and every day. Until we don't any more. And when that happens, there's no means to prepare for anything.

 

Only in retrospect can we look back and pick out certain events as having the most positive impact on our lives that prepared us (or didn't) for the events that followed.

 

Looking back (not that I'm done), I'd have to say that de-converting prepared me by enabling me to accept all parts of myself, even those parts I'm not always proud of. Self-acceptance contributes to a sense of self-worth. The sense of self-worth gives me greater protection and defenses against toxic personalities that I did not recognize before, who used to fire subtle verbal abuses into my self-esteem and do damage that I didn't even see until I noticed the big gaping holes that had to be fixed. I used to just fix the holes without ever recognizing their true causes.

[Jubilant]

HI End....I echo MadameM and would like to reiterate her point once more...Hell is a control tactic.

 

My heart really goes out to you as I remember feeling exactly like you when I was a Christian. It was the fear of my unsaved step-father and step-brothers that kept me awake at night in constant prayer. The fear of them going there was very, very real to me and it literally made me sick with worry. Later, I would find myself with those same fears regarding people that I did not even know, as well as those who were Christians who were not acting like "True Christians."

 

The absolute best advice I can give to you is to PLEASE, PLEASE for the sake of your sanity read the OT and thoroughly. Keep a notepad by your side and read and then re-read the first five books of the Bible. Jot down your questions and ANSWER them yourself. Once you put those questions into a search engine or take them to a pastor or elder or another respected Christian the apologetic phase will begin...do not go there. After you have studied the first five books then continue on with the rest of the OLD TESTAMENT. When is a place of eternal torment first discussed? Even if you find it in the Old, ask yourself, "Surely God would have warned the patriarchs?" But you will not be disappointed to find out that he did not...not a word or warning about it.

 

If I were you, when you are finished seek out Amanda and/or OpenMinded. These are two Christian women who I have grown to greatly respect at Ex-Christian.net.

 

Best of luck to you~Sandy

[Legion]

I thought Amanda de-converted. Maybe I am wrong about that?

[Jubilant]

What??? Have I been out of touch that long? I'll send her a PM to clarify.

[pitchu]

End,

 

How real do you really, really, really, truly, really think hell is?

 

If hell is merely a construct of human imagining, your father is only able to be sent to hell in your mind.

 

If hell is merely a construct of human imagining, and your father is a real, concrete, good man, you might consider finding a better way to conceive of his life and eventual death in your mind.

[Antlerman]

As a Christian to this point, I was wondering if my stay here at ex-c, and subsequent perspective changes, are a preparation for his death.

 

I realize this puts a God or purpose in the equation, and was wondering if anyone had viewed their de-conversion from that prospective.

Part of my process of deconversion was seeing that there was no purpose for 'why' things happened. Things just happen, and trying to see it has some 'purpose' is really just a coping mechanism to try to make it have some meaning or value. If found the path of just accepting there is no inherent purpose for it makes it a hell of a lot easier to not be angry about it. That whole idea of some fate, predestination, or God's plan for my life really backfired with me.

 

Your stay here at ExC is you leading you. You bring into your life something you feel you need, like your body knowing it needs vitamin C so you start craving orange juice. It's that simple. In this sense, you are God's hand in your own life. You are God. (sorry LR, had to say it that way ) Your purpose here is something you have to answer for yourself. IMO, if there is a God he'd be all about you finding your own voice, and not conforming to someone else's. Confusion begins when you don't hear your own heart.

 

 

BTW, I'm going to repost florduh's post and bold letter it. This should be hung on our front doors here at ExC.net to welcome all who enter:

De-conversion was not a goal with a purpose, but just an inescapable conclusion. It was not thought out or intended to prepare me for anything, but the rewards have come nevertheless.

 

 

I now focus more clearly on the present condition and help people in practical ways.

 

I don't worry that someone who dies may not have "known the lord" and is therefore condemned to eternal torture.

 

I'm not anxious about an impending "rapture."

 

I don't waste time trying to fit every news headline into the "end times" scenario.

 

I try to help people have better lives here and now, rather than try to get them the ticket to heaven.

 

I no longer practice daily mental gymnastics to make real life experience jibe with my beliefs.

 

I can accept reality as it presents itself.

 

I can accept people on their merits without the filter of Christian judgment.

 

 

 

 

So, yeah, I guess I am better prepared to handle life. I am happier and less stressed as well.

 

Bravo. Well said.