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Goodbye Jesus

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Guest Zoe Grace

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:fdevil:

 

The funny thing about this is that to be saved by fatih in Jesus requires an equal amount of faith in satan.

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We've already established that SBF is clearly the devil's child, spreading false doctrine to deceive us all.

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What exactly are you saved FROM?

Probaby from the sins of his/her Ancestors...oh wait...god doesn't punish the son for the sins of the father...oh wait...original sin...oh wait...what is it SBF is saved from? Very good question indeed.

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What exactly are you saved FROM?

He's saved from the trouble of rational thinking in regards some branches of science, religion and issues of right and wrong.

 

He doesn't have to think, he already knows...The bible tells him so.

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A bible that was probably never read, or if read, only allowed to conclude things in an approved manner by the preacher.

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Guest Joseph
What exactly are you saved FROM?

 

/fundie

From being sent to the lake of fire like all the rest of you faithless sinners!

/end fundie

 

A fundie is saved from:

-thinking for themselves.

-rational thought.

-free thought.

-reasoned and investigative world views based upon repeatable scientific methodology.

-questioning the status quo.

 

et al...

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who is condemning and why?  What does condemnation entail?  For practicality's sake...what happens if you are condemned?

 

Condemnation violates laws of Christ... one in being humble, meaning that no one is better or worse than anyone else. Period. If I speak in a condescending manner, that deceitfully elevates me above my intended victim. that drains life energy force from them. The words of condemnation drains the emotional Life of my victim, and it also vacates me from my accountability and responsibility to the situation. All that brings death to our spirit.

 

If I point my finger to the students at Columbine High School that masuquered many innocent kids, and condemn them for doing so... then might I ask myself why they did that? They were excluded as non-jocks, non-Christians, non-accepted. They hated their life so much they wanted to commit suicide, they were so angry that they decided to take ALL of them with them. They ARE guilty of killing, and we as society... what did we owe them? I'd hate for my child to be so unhappy to contemplate suicide! What is society's accountability to this individual?

 

I could condemn you, then you could conemn me, then I could condemn you more, etc.... what progressive action will this take anyone to a more positive outcome for their life? "I hate you" "You hate me"... now what? Condemn, condemn, condemn... that's why we needed grace, that's why we needed an internal locus of control, and both were brought into our awareness.

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Condemnation violates laws of Christ... one in being humble, meaning that no one is better or worse than anyone else. Period. If I speak in a condescending manner, that deceitfully elevates me above my intended victim. that drains life energy force from them. The words of condemnation drains the emotional Life of my victim, and it also vacates me from my accountability and responsibility to the situation. All that brings death to our spirit.
No one is better or worse than anyone else, except of course Jesus. He is condemning and proving himself better than anyone on daily basis, or isn't he?
  • "God knows your [evil] hearts" Luk 16:15.
  • "Even someone that is resurrected wouldn't convince you!" Luk 16:31.
  • "You don't have even a belief as small as a mustard seed!" Luk. 17:6.
  • "Thanking Jesus is thanking God." Ego-tripping! Luk. 17:18.
  • "As in the days of Noah: eating, drinking, marrying." How evil! Does he promote his own celibacy? That's better, huh! :scratch: Luk. 17:27.
  • "Jesus became the cornerstone. And he will destroy his opponents." Luk. 20:17-18.
  • "I will give you a wisdom to speak, and nobody should be able to argue against you." Poor xians that come overhere. They even talk about evolution without even knowing that they make fools of themselves and of this saying of Jesus. Luk. 21:15.

Jesus is a hypocrite. It would be better if the gospel writers didn't write about him as knowing that he is God alike. The first will be last.

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Jesus said if a man strikes you on the cheek, turn to him the other cheek also. If he tells you to carry his pack a stade, carry it two stades.

 

He means this only on a temporary basis, however.

 

Jesus himself is represented in the Bible as intending to subject those who rejected him to the horrific tortures forever.

 

Some Roman soldier hit him on the cheek. How long, if that guy didn't repent, will he be tormented in turn, and with what torments?

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Guest Priapus
Condemnation violates laws of Christ... one in being humble, meaning that no one is better or worse than anyone else. Period. If I speak in a condescending manner, that deceitfully elevates me above my intended victim. that drains life energy force from them. The words of condemnation drains the emotional Life of my victim, and it also vacates me from my accountability and responsibility to the situation. All that brings death to our spirit.

 

It is God who condemns. The doctrine of the Trinity (as well as John 1:1, 14; John 10:30; John 14:9) says that Jesus is God, ergo, Jesus condemns. Unless you're referring to judgement rendered by man. Yes, Christ said we "should not judge lest we be judged.", but Zoe Grace axed from what we are saved and you said "Condemnation" implying that that's coming from outside the realm of man. And "life energy force?" WTF is that? It ain't biblical, nossir. Kinda makes me think of the very bad [/url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089489/]Lifeforce (1985)[/url] featuring Vampires From Space.

 

Condescension deceitfully elevates? No. Perhaps it implies elevation, or rather subjugation of the recipient. But where's the deceit? Deceit suggests that I make myself out to be someone I'm not, but I can be every inch who I am and condescend. Sure I can. Straight up, face-to-face and pouring sweet, sticky condescension all over another. No deceit there. Pride, maybe. Sure. Contempt for another, but no deceit.

 

I don't know what to make of vacating responsibility. I find it utterly baffling.

 

 

 

If I point my finger to the students at Columbine High School that masuquered many innocent kids, and condemn them for doing so... then might I ask myself why they did that? They were excluded as non-jocks, non-Christians, non-accepted. They hated their life so much they wanted to commit suicide, they were so angry that they decided to take ALL of them with them. They ARE guilty of killing, and we as society... what did we owe them? I'd hate for my child to be so unhappy to contemplate suicide! What is society's accountability to this individual?

 

Enormous red herring. Quite possibly one of the best placed, most dramatic red herrings I've seen in a while. With all my strength, with all my power of reason and intellect I dig and scratch and claw the bare earth to find some relevance in this. Again I'm left saying, "Wha......?"

 

 

I could condemn you, then you could conemn me, then I could condemn you more, etc.... what progressive action will this take anyone to a more positive outcome for their life? "I hate you" "You hate me"... now what? Condemn, condemn, condemn... that's why we needed grace, that's why we needed an internal locus of control, and both were brought into our awareness.

 

We already have an internal locus of control. That's what our free-will is. We do as we please, that's internally directed. An external locus of control would be a life guided and driven by the Holy Spirit, ostensibly. We need grace, if I make any sense at all of your words, to escape an endless cycle of mutual resentment of one another. OK, I'll give you that. But that's got nothing to do with the Christian doctrine of Salvation. You might link it to Paul's "Fruits of the Spirit" as the Holy Spirit enables us to forgive and love our enemies, but that's as close as that comes.

 

 

Please resubmit your answers.

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No one is better or worse than anyone else, except of course Jesus. He is condemning and proving himself better than anyone on daily basis, or isn't he?
  • "God knows your [evil] hearts" Luk 16:15.
     
  • "Even someone that is resurrected wouldn't convince you!" Luk 16:31.
     
  • "You don't have even a belief as small as a mustard seed!" Luk. 17:6.
     
  • "Thanking Jesus is thanking God." Ego-tripping! Luk. 17:18.
     
  • "As in the days of Noah: eating, drinking, marrying." How evil! Does he promote his own celibacy? That's better, huh! :scratch: Luk. 17:27.
     
  • "Jesus became the cornerstone. And he will destroy his opponents." Luk. 20:17-18.
     
  • "I will give you a wisdom to speak, and nobody should be able to argue against you." Poor xians that come overhere. They even talk about evolution without even knowing that they make fools of themselves and of this saying of Jesus. Luk. 21:15.

Jesus is a hypocrite. It would be better if the gospel writers didn't write about him as knowing that he is God alike. The first will be last.

 

Saviourmachine, thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. That is how you believe and I respect that. OK. Perhaps the one verse you put in regards to condemnation, I've listed it along with the one preceding it... which shows that it was the condemning 'character' that Jesus was remarking.

 

Luke

16:14

And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

16:15

And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

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Jesus said if a man strikes you on the cheek, turn to him the other cheek also.  If he tells you to carry his pack a stade, carry it two stades.

 

IMHO, Jesus meant that to benfit you, not your enemy! The most important place you (spiritually) live is inside of yourself. If one harbors hate, resentment, or unforgiveness... it is bad for this person... not their enemy. Jesus was saying if someone strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek... as to let go of resentment, hate, unforgiveness... your enemy already has that living in them... that's obviously why they are acting that way! Feel sorry for them. If your enemy asks you to take his bag one mile, take it two... so you have no ill emotions against them... living within you. None of that is for your enemy, it is for you to live in peace inside yourself.

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IMHO, Jesus meant that to benfit you, not your enemy! The most important place you (spiritually) live is inside of yourself. If one harbors hate, resentment, or unforgiveness... it is bad for this person... not their enemy. Jesus was saying if someone strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek... as to let go of resentment, hate, unforgiveness... your enemy already has that living in them... that's obviously why they are acting that way! Feel sorry for them. If your enemy asks you to take his bag one mile, take it two... so you have no ill emotions against them... living within you. None of that is for your enemy, it is for you to live in peace inside yourself.

I have to admit, you really do have great insight and interpretation. It would be nice if more christians read it the way you do.

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IMHO, Jesus meant that to benfit you, not your enemy! The most important place you (spiritually) live is inside of yourself. If one harbors hate, resentment, or unforgiveness... it is bad for this person... not their enemy. Jesus was saying if someone strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek... as to let go of resentment, hate, unforgiveness... your enemy already has that living in them... that's obviously why they are acting that way! Feel sorry for them. If your enemy asks you to take his bag one mile, take it two... so you have no ill emotions against them... living within you. None of that is for your enemy, it is for you to live in peace inside yourself.

 

I was fed this line of bullshit all my christian life and guess what? It aint true! I fucking hate my husbands nephew and despise him and will never forgive the SOB, unless he comes begging me for forgiveness. He is less than a pimple on my ass and think of him only when someone like you comes here preaching bullshit and lies. I live in peace because I can accept some people are assholes and not try to repress my fucking hate and pretend I don't fucking hate someone. I go to family events where he is present and don't have a problem at all. I just don't talk to him and don't need to or want to.

There is certainly a difference between hating someone and being consumed by hate.

 

peace

DD

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IMHO, Jesus meant that to benfit you, not your enemy! The most important place you (spiritually) live is inside of yourself. If one harbors hate, resentment, or unforgiveness... it is bad for this person... not their enemy. Jesus was saying if someone strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek... as to let go of resentment, hate, unforgiveness... your enemy already has that living in them... that's obviously why they are acting that way! Feel sorry for them. If your enemy asks you to take his bag one mile, take it two... so you have no ill emotions against them... living within you. None of that is for your enemy, it is for you to live in peace inside yourself.

 

Uh oh, it's the Forgiveness Police!! *hides*

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What exactly are you saved FROM?

 

 

critical thinking of course....

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What is that Karras?!

"It's a vial of critical thinking and logic"

You keep that away!

*splash splash*

It burnnnnnnnsssss....arghhh...it burns!!!!!!!!!!!

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"It's a vial of critical thinking and logic"

You keep that away!

*splash splash*

It burnnnnnnnsssss....arghhh...it burns!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My preciousssss...

 

 

 

 

 

ROTFL!!! :HaHa:

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Hehe...shamelessly ripped from The Exorcist. I love that movie.

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Saviourmachine, thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. That is how you believe and I respect that. OK. Perhaps the one verse you put in regards to condemnation, I've listed it along with the one preceding it... which shows that it was the condemning 'character' that Jesus was remarking.
Jesus was remarking everybody. It ain't shit to me. I'm talking about his condescending manners.

 

A real Jesus wouldn't care about people that didn't follow him. He would only love and appreciate the ones that did. He wouldn't make an issue of faith. Isn't gullibility a character trait? He wouldn't care about him being a cornerstone or not. He wouldn't need a Samaritan to thank him like a god. He wouldn't act as if he had the 'truth'.

 

The only way god speaks to me at the moment is through you. So, be pretty sure it are god's words you're talking to me. Don't take your own, or old sayings of your arbitrary religion.

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Jesus was remarking everybody. It ain't shit to me. I'm talking about his condescending manners.

 

A real Jesus wouldn't care about people that didn't follow him. He would only love and appreciate the ones that did. He wouldn't make an issue of faith. Isn't gullibility a character trait? He wouldn't care about him being a cornerstone or not. He wouldn't need a Samaritan to thank him like a god. He wouldn't act as if he had the 'truth'.

 

The only way god speaks to me at the moment is through you. So, be pretty sure it are god's words you're talking to me. Don't take your own, or old sayings of your arbitrary religion.

 

Saviourmachine, actually it seems Jesus only cared about the message, that it brought relief, strength, and hope. Jesus died in obscurity... it is only through Paul, after the death of Jesus... did there become a significant recognition to his teachings. And you know what... everyone is eventually saved, and no one receives any rewards greater than another, nor any less... so I don't care how you believe... it doesn't matter to me. I'm just sharing my humble opinion. If these issues don't speak with a force to resurrect your emotions... then let them go... forget them.. there are many paths to strength, and the one you're on may be the best one for you... and I hope you stay on it! I'm jus sharing my perspective fwiw.

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And you know what... everyone is eventually saved, and no one receives any rewards greater than another, nor any less... so I don't care how you believe... it doesn't matter to me. I'm just sharing my humble opinion. If these issues don't speak with a force to resurrect your emotions... then let them go... forget them.. there are many paths to strength, and the one you're on may be the best one for you... and I hope you stay on it! I'm jus sharing my perspective fwiw.

Questions

Okay, I don't want to talk about these dead people anymore either. Where am I saved from? Why do I have to receive rewards for? Why don't you care about me? Why do my emotions need to be resurrected? To what strength would I have to strive?

 

Religion "Arbitrary"

I'm currently reading the Bhagavad~Gítá with commentary from Bhaktivedanta Prabhupáda. Ah, what do I hate that tone!

  • Science does have it wrong. They think people don't have a soul, but we know better. The soul is infinitely small, so it can't be detected by measurements done by scientists.
  • Nobody will understand these wise words, except for the case that he does trust these words as the one and only truth. The unbeliever and materialist wouldn't understand them at all.
  • Transgressions when chanting the holy name are these: be jalous of holy people, seeing god apart from his properties, seeing a teacher as not from god, not seeing the scriptures as very important (in Dutch there is a verb derived from bagatelle), loosing attention, etc.

So many people seem to claim so much! That's the reason why I assign in my life the greatest value to truth. And that's why I care for what someone states or denies. They can be right or wrong.

 

Hope, relief and strength

So, you're on this board to spread hope, relief and strength? By proposing salvations and equally distributed rewards?

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Certainty is what one seeks. The name of the day is Certainty, the name of night is Hope.

 

 

One nightmare they called bible. The Word is like a cave filled with dark and turbid filth, spiders, traps. And sometimes very hidden precious pearls can be found. Don't, however, mistake dirt for wisdom. Good is good, and evil is evil.

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