Why should women

[doomguarder]

<pissed off bitch mode on>

 

What the fuck, is this, “women are only valuable as wives and mothers” day?

 

One of my old female residents(lived here 2 years ago, I run a dorm) just left the office about 10 minutes ago. She was in tears. She just received her bachelors degree on July 15th and has been accepted into graduate school. Internship, research grant (engineering major) already acquired and positive letters from all of the top teachers in her school. She has been dating the same boy for the last 2 years, basically since she left the dorm. Last weekend her BF and father met for the first time. The BF has proposed and she accepted before this happened. Apparently they are both “Christians” and of the opinion that were she to complete her masters the likelihood of children within the marriage would decrease. She and the BF have discussed kids and agreed they both want them. She just wants to wait until she is more established both financially and in their relationship.

 

Well daddy and BF have now decided she should not go back. That they should marry immediately (whole living in sin thing) and start to reproduce. Her father is now refusing to assist with any further schooling. The money that is saved for school has now been allotted only to future children. The father has also made it clear that if she goes on without his approval that there will be no relationship between them. The BF is saying the same. If she will not do it now, as in two weeks from today, he is going to look for a good “Christian” girl. He had no problem dealing with her deist views and the previous plans until he found that daddy was willing to help force her into a different role. BF doesn’t attend church, but he told her father that he does go to church once a week, just without her knowledge. The truth of his statement to her father does not matter. Either way he is a lying to one of them, asshole.

 

She came to ask me advice. I was so pissed after what she told me that I had to wait a few minutes before I responded. I told her to do what she feels is right for her regardless of what daddy or BF has to say about it. Her life not theirs. She has decided to break up with the BF and to tell dad to FUCK OFF! She has no place to stay once she tells the BF what her decision is as they share an apartment that is in his name. I offered her a space at the dorm (with the owners approval, a really cool old lady) for free for the next month. She will let me know. One good thing is her mother (parents are divorced) is going to try and help her. We called mom while she was in the office to she where she stood on this. Mom is with me, do what you want and do not let them force you to accept a life you do not want. I like her mom, but her mother does not have the financial resources that her father does.

 

Why do many people feel that they should be able to dictate to the women in their lives what they should do, think, feel, and how they should act? I am sick of this. I have great respect for women and men who decide to have children and dedicate the time, money and effort in raising those children properly. But no one should be force to have children when they are not ready for them or when they are unable to put forth the effort to do the job right.

 

This is the third, yes third, female student over the last month that has come to me in a similar circumstance. One has been cut off because she chose to study biology instead of literature. Daddy in this case is a Southern Baptist who didn’t want her in college in the first place. Now he is acting as if her choice in vocation is a direct insult to him. She has dropped out of UT due to the costs and is pursuing her education in community college until she is able to remove her family from her financial aid paperwork to obtain funding for school. Another was cut off when her fuddy mother found out she had attended a pro-choice rally. Mom live in town and saw her picture on the front of the student paper. She too has been forced out of school for now.

 

FUCK ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY CAN RULE OTHER PEOPLE LIVES.

 

<pissed off bitch mode off>

 

I only hope that all three are able to overcome these obstacles placed in their path by their own family members and become stronger people because of it.

[I Broke Free]

Why do many people feel that they should be able to dictate to the women in their lives what they should do, think, feel, and how they should act? I am sick of this. I have great respect for women and men who decide to have children and dedicate the time, money and effort in raising those children properly. But no one should be force to have children when they are not ready for them or when they are unable to put forth the effort to do the job right.

 

 

Thank you for the post. I am always sickened by these types of stories, but I must admit that as a male I see injustice done to both sexes in the name of living up to a “proper Christian life.” Fundamentalist Christians make unreasonable demands on both sexes when entering into a relationship. Both are now saddled with expectations that they would not have heaped on each other unless their faith was forcing the issue. It is no surprise that the rates of divorce are so high among the fundys.

 

I will have to admit that even though both sexes get the shaft if they adopt the fundy marriage lifestyle, woman get it worse, because they are the ones left without the finances to leave.

 

FUCK ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY CAN RULE OTHER PEOPLE LIVES.

 

I could not agree more.

[doomguarder]

Thank you IBF,

 

I agree.

 

My 10 year marriage would be considered invalid to them because we have not had children. That was a choice BTW.

 

They can kiss my lily white, double wide ass.

 

And if I get the chance to tell her dad or BF that, I will.

 

Regards IBF

[I Broke Free]

I am sorry, but your relationship is based only on LUST rather than LOVE and commitment. Your decision to remain childless has indeed “invalidated” the very point and purpose of marriage. I will spew you out My mouth when I get the chance. Until that day, please continue to pay your taxes so that you may subsidize True Christian families.

 

Sincerely,

God

[Amethyst]

Why do many people feel that they should be able to dictate to the women in their lives what they should do, think, feel, and how they should act?

 

Because their religion brainwashes them to. And because, in many areas, it is still culturally acceptable and the women fall for it.

 

Argh.

[doomguarder]

I am sorry, but your relationship is based only on LUST rather than LOVE and commitment. Your decision to remain childless has indeed “invalidated” the very point and purpose of marriage. I will spew you out My mouth when I get the chance. Until that day, please continue to pay your taxes so that you may subsidize True Christian families.

 

Sincerely,

God

 

Thank you, I needed that. I will run off and begin breeding immediately.

[Thurisaz]

FUCK ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY CAN RULE OTHER PEOPLE LIVES.

 

 

A disgusting story indeed. All the more so because we don't hear such things for the first time... not at all.

[NotBlinded]

Thank you IBF,

 

I agree.

 

My 10 year marriage would be considered invalid to them because we have not had children. That was a choice BTW.

 

They can kiss my lily white, double wide ass.

 

And if I get the chance to tell her dad or BF that, I will.

 

Regards IBF

HA! That is great!

 

I'm glad you are there for them. They could have had a religous nut where you are and there would be no place for them to go. Good for you and for her to leave his ass.

[white_raven23]

Every time I read stupid patriarchal crap like that, I hear Eric Cartman throw a gibbering tantrum in my head.

 

I'm 28 and I think my mom is finally realizing I'm not getting married and popping out grandkids for her.

 

I think she's been waiting for me to "come to my senses" trusting that biology would eventually push me in the "right" direction (sometimes scientific ignorance is a GOOD thing).

 

She was 29 when she became a parent, so it's not bad now.....but I think that will change in November when I turn 29 myself.

 

I start getting hot under the collar the minute anyone starts dropping hints about what I "should" be doing (everyone's a bloody expert). And the folks who seem quite convinced that 29 = old, really piss me off. People are living how much longer on average? Get off it already. The 1800s and 1900s are OVER.

[doomguarder]

Madame,

 

Thank you for your post.

 

Weirdo thing for me was, it was my father who stayed home to care for me when I was young. In the 70s it was still possible to run a household with kids on one income. By the time my sister was born in 1980, it was not. She spent time in daycare and under my teenage supervision, if you can call it that.

 

If possible an at home parent is ideal, but not required. I wish your friend knew that.

 

All people should be allowed to follow their own path through life, and only reprimanded for it if it interferes with another persons ability to do the same. None of these girls are doing anything to keep their parents from practicing their faith.

 

I have to admit that I do not always understand the theistic ways of living. Never been there and done that myself, ya know. I also have a hard time understanding why women give up their personal goals in favor of supporting their husbands or vise versa to be honest. My husband and I support each others goals and try to be a team when achieving them.

 

Family is important to me, but is not the only thing that women can or should do with their lives. It is a personal choice that others should not try to change.

 

I'm glad you are there for them. They could have had a religous nut where you are and there would be no place for them to go.

 

I try. They all know I am an atheist, I am not quiet about it. But in the end I am always a willing shoulder for them to cry on and a clear mind to bounce ideas off of. I do not need to have my own kids, I help take care of 100 who are on their first steps away from the nest. Which is why situation like this piss me off so bad.

 

 

Thank you for listening to me rant on this. I was so angry, but she did not need to hear that from me. She needed support, not condemnation of her family.

[nirrti]

[sTUNNED].......................................................................

................................[/sTUNNED]

 

 

I cannot believe these dudes have the nerve to tell these obviously smart, grown women, who actually want to make something of themselves, they can't go to school because they don't "jump" when "daddy" tells them to. Oooooh! If my grandmother heard of my father so much as hinting on cutting off my education, she, my grandfather, mother, aunties, uncles, cousins, 2nd cousins, dead relatives...............all of 'em would've gone over to his house and beat the shit out of him!

 

That's why I don't understand this attitude coming from these fundamentalists. When I was still a Christian, I never saw anyone cut off someone's education for any reason. African-American congregations believe the notion that anyone who went to college uplifted themselves, their family and community. They even give away scholarships to high school students in hopes they'll do something for society. As I hear more stories like this, it seems like churches that have predominately white congregations have gotten more oppressive, especially toward women, than black churches in general. I don't know for sure, but that's what it seems.

 

Is this because now that white men no longer have an automatic leg up in society because of equality in the workplace, schools and society, they're using the church to grab whatever power they can, whether it's their families or within the church? Could someone elaborate on this?

[Guest Priapus]

Stuff like that makes me wanna upchuck. The Fundy Christian Vision of Godly Women is just another vehicle for control within the pantheon of Intrusive Parent Behaviors.

 

If BF's still dependent on dad for school funding, what's he doing assuming the responsibilities of marriage? Boy needs to get his shit in order and/or tell dad to walk.

[doomguarder]

UPDATE

 

She is now staying at the dorm. Her mother has talked to other family members, and her needs will be met.

 

On to grad school, I am so happy.

 

BF kicked her out 24 hours after she told him she would not quit school because they wanted her to, only of she wanted too.

 

She is doing well.

 

Thank you all for the chance to rant.

[LloydDobler]

The only unfortunate thing here is that it's a lose lose situation. One decision breaks her heart, the other breaks her spirit.

 

Stupid misogynists don't have any idea how amazing a powerful, brilliant, independent woman is. They view it as something to fear. Something that they have to protect from biting off more than it can chew. Worst of all, they view it as a thing. Not a person.

 

I think dumping that tool was the smart move, and that she should do whatever it took even if she had to go it alone. Fuck daddy and his control. Doing it on your own just makes you that much stronger.

 

Also make sure she learns the lesson about giving control to a man. She should never have had the threat of homelessness hanging over her. Ever.

 

For encouragement have her visit Heartless Bitches for a little girl power. It's a bit cliche but definitely uplifting.

[doomguarder]

Also make sure she learns the lesson about giving control to a man. She should never have had the threat of homelessness hanging over her. Ever.

 

I don't think I need to reiterate this, she got it when he dumped her stuff in the back of her truck. She already said never again to not being a party on the lease.

 

By thew time she confronted him and told him her decision, she was downright pissed. I think the heartbreak happened in my office, anger rose from there and took control.

 

She has a free month in my dorm to get ready for school and find new housing. That was the best thing I could do for her. No need to go back, she has a place for her stuff.

 

Mom has been a gem. I think this has strengthened their relationship. Apparently he tried to force mom into the same type of role, that is why they are now divorced.

[Curtdude]

....Is this because now that white men no longer have an automatic leg up in society because of equality in the workplace, schools and society, they're using the church to grab whatever power they can, whether it's their families or within the church?  Could someone elaborate on this?

 

Hey nirrti,

 

I've been thinking about this, also. Since the demise of Jim Crow laws, this is a way for white men to assert domination in the workplace and keep competition for their jobs down: keep the wife at home, saddled with kids and pregnancies.

 

Whenever I hear white people complain about the loss of the standard of living from the 50s and 60s, I can't help but think that the job market back then was restricted to white men (in good paying, white collar or professional jobs). As soon as that ended in the 70s, the competition for jobs tightened.

 

 

Hey doomguarder,

 

Glad you were there to listen to this woman; sounds like things are looking up for her, since she told the patriarchal bastards in her life to kiss off.

[BlueGiant]

Like her heart should be broken over this...sure she may have liked the guy, but he appears to be terminally a dick. He's probably the best 170 lbs she ever lost if he's pulling stunts like this, and it is probably better that this came up before a divorce would result.

 

Congratulations and good luck to her.

[godlessgrrl]

Holy fucking cow. I wish there was a smiley here for someone's brain exploding with fury, cuz I'd be using it right now. I could literally feel my pulse and blood pressure rising while reading that disgusting misogynist bullshit. What a bunch of fucking assholes. And that's an understatement.

 

Stupid misogynists don't have any idea how amazing a powerful, brilliant, independent woman is.

 

Y'know, Lloyd, I think they do. I think they do and it scares them absolutely shitless. Maybe because they know they can't measure up. Maybe because independent, strong, powerful women change the status quo. I mean if a woman doesn't need you, she can reject you at will. You can't control her. You can't make her love and take care of you, which I often wonder if that's what misogynists want: a permanent mommy.

 

I don't really know. I'm still so pissed I'm seeing cross-eyed, and I'll admit that I do have a very big fat paranoid rant about all the various reasons why I think wackjob assholes like this gal's ex-BF and fuckwad daddy actually treat women this way. In more clear-headed moments I realize there's no single answer.

 

Please, Doom, also recommend "When God Was a Woman" by Merlin Stone to her. A controversial book, but very well-researched, and offers a solid theory on why Abrahamic religions are so into hammering women down. Smegheads.

[Ms. K]

Oh, the mysoginists know exactly how powerful a liberated woman who is well-educated and can make her own decisions is.

 

How much backlash has there been against feminism? How much crap have we had to endure since "The Second Sex", or "The Feminine Mystique", or "Against Our Will", or heck, even "Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women" were published? How many men have tried to tell us that we aren't as smart as they are, or as willing to work long hours as they are, or that we are taking salaries away from good, decent, hardworking MEN and THEIR families.

 

Patriarchal assholes, they just don't think we should get any of the controls of our own lives. After all, GOD is a man, so MEN are supposed to be in charge. We lil' women shouldn't worry our pretty lil' heads over the big, bad things in this world, like getting educated, or working, or voting.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Why should women, be forced into roles they don't want

Well,... how else are we men to make them our toys otherwise? And what better way for us to get what we want than to uphold ancient traditions and holybooks in order to get most everything what we want from women. It's a mans world. hehe.

 

Let the flaming begin!

 

[TruthWarrior]

Why should women, be forced into roles they don't want

 

Because men (or a man god) says so!

 

Now why do so many allow themselves to be put into such submisive positions? That is the question. Fear I suppose. Maybe insecurity from being put down so much by some men.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Some of our ancestors were total tards. In any creation story creation should be considered a female ability if we are going to invent a god that we are in the immage of and any male god ( if we have gods instead of just a god), should play a minor role.

 

 

 

HAHAHAHA!!! i LOVE YOU GIF TRUTH WARRIOR!

[fallenleaf]

I don't think I need to reiterate this, she got it when he dumped her stuff in the back of her truck. She already said never again to not being a party on the lease.

 

By thew time she confronted him and told him her decision, she was downright pissed. I think the heartbreak happened in my office, anger rose from there and took control.

 

She has a free month in my dorm to get ready for school and find new housing. That was the best thing I could do for her. No need to go back, she has a place for her stuff.

 

Good for her. About the only thing in the world which can make me think poorly of a woman is when they bow under bullshit pressure like that. You're no slave because of your birth and you damn well better not be willing to kneel down and accept the chains either.

 

This is one reason I would love to marry a woman who teaches (like I will be doing). It is a perfect way to have both of us work. But... if I married a woman who had a more demanding job... I wouldn't think twice about being the one in charge of household stuff while she was in the office, the lab, or the space shuttle (Mmm, hot brainy chicks turn me on)...

 

As horrible as this woman's choices were... there really was only one choice which allowed her to keep her humanity.

 

Oh... and to repeat it... FUCK those guys. Fuck them in their asses with unlubed barbed-wire fence posts.

[Druid]

Well daddy and BF have now decided she should not go back. That they should marry immediately (whole living in sin thing) and start to reproduce.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If I suggested this to my GF she'd cut off my nuts and then dump me.

 

Good for your friend, she definitely deserves someone better than that dick anyway. Hope she has a great career and life.

[Kay]

I'm not too familiar with how your benefits system works in the US.

 

Here in Australia, if you are under a certain age, live away from home and trying to study, you can easily apply for Youth Allowance and AusAid - which helps you pay for things like rent and uni fees. Further, our university fee system is called "HECS - Higher Education Contribution Scheme" - meaning you can defer entire payment of your university fees until some time in the future when you begin to generate over a certain threshold of income.

 

So unless you didn't get enough marks to get into the course with a HECs offer (because you can still do a course sometimes by paying full fee) - university isn't really that hard to get into in Australia. If you did a five year course on HECs, which is around AUD4,000 a year, you rack up a total of AUD20,000 that you can slowly pay off in the future once you start earning money (it's taken from your remuneration like tax).

 

Bottom line is - we pay through our nose in tax so that everyone can do what they want, even if their parents have cut off the financial lifeline. It's fair for those who genuinely want to study. It's unfair if they're lazy dole-bludgers.

 

Btw - exactly how expensive is college in the US? I've heard ridiculous figures like US100,000. Gross exaggeration?