Guest gamer4halo Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 throughout the bible there are various prophecies that Jesus completes.the only book that talks about theses saying they happened is the bible. throughout history there are numerous accounts of wars or anything big. Jesus does these things in the bible , but the only prove you have is the bible. thousands of people saw jesusdo theses things but nobody except the writers of the bible write it down?christian logic is "i know this happened because the bible says so"even though there hasn't been a single writing found talking about theses things unless they use the bible for reference.they like saying humans aren't born storks bring us , and i know because mother goose told me so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I think I am having a tough time figuring out what your question is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Whoo! Breathe little buddy! Welcome to our little band! I read your post a couple of times, but I'm not clear on what your question is. Can you specify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I believe that its very likely Jesus did miracles. I think it was unlocked brain power, not divine essence. I've seen modern day people(none of them christians) do some of the things the bible claims Jesus did, but they told me they achieved it through meditation. Thats one of the reasons I began to abandon Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Priapus Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 OK, OK, BuddhistCommunist, we believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 gamer4halo: welcome to the forums. Pay no attention to these chumps. I know what you're saying. Since the bible is the only decent reference to Jesus, why should we consider him as anything more than a fairytale? Here is an interesting blurb from the website jesuspuzzle by Doherty. "The non-Christian witness to Jesus is anything but supportive of his existence. Until almost the end of the first century, there is not a murmur of him in the Jewish or pagan record. The Alexandrian Jewish philosopher Philo, who lived until about 50 CE and wrote of unusual sects like the Therapeutae and the Essenes, has nothing to say about Jesus or Christians. Justus of Tiberias, a Jewish historian who wrote in Galilee in the 80's (his works are now lost), is reported later to have made no mention whatever of Jesus. Pliny the Elder (dies 79 CE) collected data on all manner of natural and astronomical phenomena, even those which were legendary and which he himself did not necessarily regard as factual, but he records no prodigies associated with the beliefs of Christians, such as an earthquake or darkening of the skies at a crucifixion, or any star of Bethlehem. The first Roman satirist to scorn a sect which believed in a crucified Judean founder who had been a god was not Martial at the end of the first century, nor Juvenal in the first half of the second centruy, but Lucian in the 160's. Reports of Epictetus, the great Stoic philosopher of the early second century who preached universal brotherhood to the poor and humble masses, record no knowledge on his part of a Jewish precursor. Nor does Seneca, the empire's leading ehicist during the reign of Nero, make reference to such a figure. Other historians of the time, like Plutarch and Quintilian, are equally silent." end quote Jesus sure was obscure for someone who healed paralytics, raised the dead, opened the eyes of the blind, drove merchants from the temple with a whip, and walked on water. The bible says that Herod knew of him. How come no one else did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I believe that its very likely Jesus did miracles. I think it was unlocked brain power, not divine essence. I've seen modern day people(none of them christians) do some of the things the bible claims Jesus did, but they told me they achieved it through meditation. Thats one of the reasons I began to abandon Christianity. Like what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I saw a man levitate, Ive seen energy practitioners that have healed the sick. Ive seen "exercisms" by Native american medicine men(ive never seen a christian one work). I even saw a man, who believes the mind is the most powerful thing, Walk on water. In my opinion its all about controlling the mind. And im sorry about all those posts, my comp was messing up bad when i tried to send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I saw a man levitate, Ive seen energy practitioners that have healed the sick. Ive seen "exercisms" by Native american medicine men(ive never seen a christian one work). I even saw a man, who believes the mind is the most powerful thing, Walk on water. In my opinion its all about controlling the mind. And im sorry about all those posts, my comp was messing up bad when i tried to send. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gotta call bs (or good drugs) on the walk on water one. Unless he was being pulled by a speedboat. Don't suppose anyone filmed it? Or does the power of the mind go down somewhat when the cameras come on? Might as well say he flew off into the air by flapping his arms. I did see levitation though. Pretty cool. During Seigfreid and Roy, back before the bad kitty hurt the dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Well i dont have it on tape, he perfered it that way. But hes a hermit and very few people know anything about him. But hes a very humble man and hes devote. He only shows this to those seeking the truth. And out of 8 of us that went to see him, he could tell 3 of them didn't believe it was possible and very kindly refused to show them. he apparently only shows himself to those who will not outright mention him, some how he knows. Hence, no name, location. But this is just what i saw, so yeah i just wanted to share that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Well i dont have it on tape, he perfered it that way. But hes a hermit and very few people know anything about him. But hes a very humble man and hes devote. He only shows this to those seeking the truth. And out of 8 of us that went to see him, he could tell 3 of them didn't believe it was possible and very kindly refused to show them. he apparently only shows himself to those who will not outright mention him, some how he knows. Hence, no name, location. But this is just what i saw, so yeah i just wanted to share that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now I gotta call double-bullshit. I think you been duped. This has the odor of a ruse. Either you're a gullible maroon or you think we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antihero Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Yeah, no offence, but why would the power of walking on water be limited to some hermit only willing to show the "true power" of the mind to people who are going to believe anyway? Why is it that even the most unbiased skeptical research into these phenomenon only ever turn up wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 throughout the bible there are various prophecies that Jesus completes.the only book that talks about theses saying they happened is the bible. throughout history there are numerous accounts of wars or anything big. Jesus does these things in the bible , but the only prove you have is the bible. thousands of people saw jesusdo theses things but nobody except the writers of the bible write it down?christian logic is "i know this happened because the bible says so"even though there hasn't been a single writing found talking about theses things unless they use the bible for reference.they like saying humans aren't born storks bring us , and i know because mother goose told me so. Halo Dude, Welcome to the site btw! Can you break up the sentences a bit, because some of them seem to contain several parallel questions simultaneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I'm still trying to sort all of this out myself. I would just like to throw out the conclusions of the Jesus Seminar on who the real Jesus was (or wasn't). If you are curious about who these people are see this page Well, their conclusion on the historical Jesus is that he was probably a "laconic sage". He never claimed to be any messiah or god, he was just a purveyor of aphorisms and parables. According to Robert Funk's (Jesus Seminar founder) "The Five Gospels" on pg 7 "...biblical scholars and theologians alike have learned to distinguish the Jesus of history from the Christ of faith. It has been a painful lesson for both the church and scholarship. The distinction between the two figures is the difference between a[n] historical person who lived in a particular time and place and was subject to the limitations of a finite existence, and a figure who has been assigned a mythical role, in which he descends from heaven to rescue human-kind and, of course, eventually returns there." It would seem from my studies thus far (and I have much to learn yet) that the Jesus of the bible in fact never existed. However it would seem premature to conclude that there was never any real man on whom the writers of the NT would place their messiah. Basically, there may (and probably was??) have been a real "Jesus", but he's not who we think of as being Jesus today. And Mythra, thanks for the link. It looks very interesting. I haven't had time to read all of it yet, but I will try to soon. [EDIT] Well, not link exactly. I googled for jesuspuzzle and Doherty and found jesuspuzzle.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hey i didn't say anyone had to believe me. I just share my experiences. please respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Hey i didn't say anyone had to believe me. I just share my experiences. please respect that. Man's got a point, y'all. Experiences/opinons. Same, same. However...IF a stage magician or even a street magician levitates, disappears, produces rabbits from his hat,...does THAT make them someone divine? Or are they merely adept at chicanery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 ok then, buddhadude: share. Tell us. I mean, it's kind of an incredible story to just mention in passing, "oh, yeah, and I saw a sage dude walk on water." Give us the details if it's legit. Was it in a lake? A river? Did he just step onto the water and then back onto the land? Did he walk out fifty feet and then turn around with outstretched arms and say "TA-DA"? If you're not pulling our leg then lets hear it. Personally, I think it's bullshit. But it does sound like an interesting yarn. And you said he was devout? Devout what? Buddhist? Druid? IPU? Spill it, dude. (unless ridicule scares the shit outta ya) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Yeah, no offence, but why would the power of walking on water be limited to some hermit only willing to show the "true power" of the mind to people who are going to believe anyway? Why is it that even the most unbiased skeptical research into these phenomenon only ever turn up wishful thinking? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antihero Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Hey i didn't say anyone had to believe me. I just share my experiences. please respect that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And noone should believe you, including yourself - not without some evidence. These "miracles" are easy to fake, especially to a willing audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 As a hermit, living alone, probably out in the middle of nowhere, I would think that if he were seriously going to jack with people's minds, he could easily rig-up some plexiglass right beneath the surface of the local water hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gamer4halo Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 gamer4halo: welcome to the forums. Pay no attention to these chumps. I know what you're saying. Since the bible is the only decent reference to Jesus, why should we consider him as anything more than a fairytale? ok thanks Mythra. you put the question in simpler terms. i was sorta of angry while writing the question , so i just sort of let my mind flow instead of saying what i should have said. but yes that is my point , there is no evidence other than the bible itself saying that jesus existed.it seems like an out of control fairytale.and no one in the church that i go to(been going to church for 4 years thanks to my dad)can show me a historical book mentionioning jesus , and whenever they do the only prove the book will mention as reference is the bible. sorry for not stating the question more plain like i said i had a lot on my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 throughout the bible there are various prophecies that Jesus completes. Babblical prophecies are worthless. Inasmuch as Jesus supposedly fulfilled OT prophecies, well, duh. The NT didn't get written until decades after his supposed death, add to that the decision of the early church about what to include in the bible and the credibility of the NT settles somewhere as low down as the outer core of this planet. And the seemingly prophecied future talked about in the NT... big deal. Wars, earthquakes and the like happen all the time. It's all hopelessly vague stuff. Well, except for one thing. Throughout the NT you find the clear statement that The End will come quickly, supposedly before the last apostle dies. That bastard must have hidden somewhere and eaten from the tree of life, considering that it's been two thousand years now and the world is still here, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 HEY! What happened to buddhadude? Did he take his ball and go home because we didn't all just go ga-ga over his story of the guy he saw walk on water? I can't help being skeptical of such things. Qwarkferd (my advisor from the planet Snifbul in the Oscarmeyer constellation) has instructed me that incredible claims require incredible proofs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Actually ive been at work. Anyway, He was devout in the fact that He thought of all humans as potential gods. He said the secret was, believe 100% that you can achieve this. And we all tried it and failed miserably, except for my friend Nick, He did it for 3 seconds and then fell. So the hermit had one thing to say. "our minds make it Impossible, but they can also make it possible". I cant make you believe me people nor do I want to, But I am sharing what i saw and I'm 99% sure(never 100%) that it wasn't a trick. Believe it or not, I'm almost positive it was real. Just thought I'd share the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 It's a good story, buddha man. (I guess) And (no offense) But, to someone with a materialistic mind like myself, it carries all of the legitimacy of stories of alien abductions and rides aboard the mother ship. I'll believe it when I personally witness a flying pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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