Vigile Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Hey i didn't say anyone had to believe me. I just share my experiences. please respect that. We will respect your right to believe it and your free speech to pronounce it, but don't expect us, a group of skeptics and free thinkers, to not challenge it. You make the same statements that nearly every miracle believing christian makes. Miracles only happen in Africa, in closed church services, to my third cousin twice removed. You made an extraordinary claim, we demand extraordinary evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I understand, Theres just really no proof I can offer. I suppose I'll just drop it, since I have no proof, but there are strange things out there guys And I'm one for looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 We will respect your right to believe it and your free speech to pronounce it, but don't expect us, a group of skeptics and free thinkers, to not challenge it. You make the same statements that nearly every miracle believing christian makes. Miracles only happen in Africa, in closed church services, to my third cousin twice removed. You made an extraordinary claim, we demand extraordinary evidence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Vigile and Mythra, there are many out there that say that the thing that limits us the most is our minds. Breaking the boundaries of our self limiting thoughts is also a very popular secular idea! It has been noted that in athletic competitions that once someone breaks a record, that new record creates higher standards that starts becoming more frequent. an Indian (from India) medical doctor, Depak Chopra, demonstrates this idea in one of his videos. There is a mention in India that they tie up a baby elephant with a small rope around his leg to a tree, and when he gets older... the small rope still works because the elephant now has this limiting belief. My son had an electric fence for his dog, and the dog was trained to remain within an area by a special collar he wore. It was the collar that gave him a gentle sting when crossing a marked electic line below the ground. The markers were tossed when the dog was trained, we lost the collar, the dog still never leaves his trained areas. Could we be the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Son of Belial Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Babblical prophecies are worthless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was his point, I think. The only references to a man who rose the dead, set the Romans in fear, made the Jews go nuts, walked on water, fed masses, cured blind people, lame people, diseased people, etc, is only mentioned in the Bible. The only books that mention Jesus historically use the Bible as a reference and nothing else. As far as the prophecies, he was saying Jesus fulfilled prophecies that are in the same book as Jesus. It's like saying that Luke Skywalker is the Messiah because he fulfilled some prophecy to defeat the Emperor or something. It's easy to fulfill prophecies when you make them up. Hey, you know, no man can kill the Witch King of Angmar , but Eowyn did it because she was a woman. There was also a vague prophecy that the king would raise the dead, which Aragorn did when he walked the Paths of the Dead and raised the Oathbreakers. Amazing, but as cool as it is, Tolkien wrote it all, so of course he has anything he wants to happen... well, happen. And Tolkien's mythology makes more sense than the Bible anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 He said the secret was, believe 100% that you can achieve this. Is this a one-trick pony limited to walking on water, or does the 100% belief rule apply to everything in the universe? In other words, if I believe 100% that I can fly to the moon, will I? And I am not trying to be disrespectful, I am just trying to understand exactly what this means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sokudo Ningyou Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 The mind and body can do some incredible things. Old grandmothers lifting cars off their grandkids because of a surge of adrenaline, placebos healing the sick, etc. But walking on water? Unless the fellow knows how to use quantum physics, I seriously doubt it. Plexiglass and a trap door could work just as well to convince you he's Jeebus Christopher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Is this a one-trick pony limited to walking on water, or does the 100% belief rule apply to everything in the universe? In other words, if I believe 100% that I can fly to the moon, will I? And I am not trying to be disrespectful, I am just trying to understand exactly what this means. Sounds like a scene from Bulletproof Monk where he says "If you really believe it, then gravity does not exist"... I'm sorry, but either you're full of shit, or the people you've seen do these things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 you know, If he would have put plexiglass over an entire lakeafter and before we swam in it, that would be incredible.... yes if you believe it 100 percent you can do anything, but you cannot possibly imagine how much training that takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anathema Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Buddhist. You sure David Blaine wasn't hiding in the bushes, holding him up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Lol nice! But Seriously, I Left Christianity and many other faiths because of the no proof and little realism they offer. I've noticed peoples tricks for a long time so getting me to believe something that i've analyzed the event over and over again trying in some way to disprove and it all be in vain.... I'm sorry, I shared what I saw and it was up to you to except it or not, I really don't care, but please no comments attempting to insult my intelligence. I've already thought of all you said so far and I saw it happen. also adrelinaline does not give you anywhere near the power to lift a car off of someone, not even pcp can do that. Instead I know its shear will power. If you believe something so strongly, anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 you know, If he would have put plexiglass over an entire lakeafter and before we swam in it, that would be incredible.... yes if you believe it 100 percent you can do anything, but you cannot possibly imagine how much training that takes. Well I guess we'll just agree to disagree then. I think there are alot of things people can do if they have confidence in themselves, but those things are still governed by the laws of physics. If humans have the power to change those laws at will, why don't those people allow scientists to observe and test them? If they aren't frauds, I would think they would welcome it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Sounds like a scene from Bulletproof Monk where he says "If you really believe it, then gravity does not exist"... Or even worse, if you really believe the Bible is true, it is! Blech. I'm sorry, but either you're full of shit, or the people you've seen do these things are. I'll take it this was directed at BC and not me . Although one time I did see a bowling ball roll uphill at this old house in California (it's some tourist attraction called the "mystery spot" in Santa Cruz). It was pretty cool actually. But I think that has something to do with the gravity in that particular spot or an optical illusion, I was a kid at the time so I don't totally remember. I should read up on that more to see what the scientific explanation is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I'll believe it when I personally witness a flying pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Lol nice! But Seriously, I Left Christianity and many other faiths because of the no proof and little realism they offer. and yet that whole 'devout man' walking on water like Christ is realistic? You really shouldn't have brought that up on this forum unless you were prepared to back it up with verifiable proof. The fact that this person was unwilling to demonstrate his abilities to those who didn't already believe makes it sound completely false, like some sort of cult. Come back when you've collected the $1,000,000 from James Randi and we'll be your biggest fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Although one time I did see a bowling ball roll uphill at this old house in California (it's some tourist attraction called the "mystery spot" in Santa Cruz). It was pretty cool actually. But I think that has something to do with the gravity in that particular spot or an optical illusion, I was a kid at the time so I don't totally remember. I should read up on that more to see what the scientific explanation is.... There's a house somewhere around Albuquerque, NM that does things like this. The floors are all slanted at weird angles, and the result is that when you're in the house all kinds of weird stuff happens. Water appears to flow uphill, balls rolling on tables uphill. It's all an illusion, of course, but it's really cool nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Trashy, thats incredibly broad, for one, you don't even know If I exist, or anything about, So for anyone moking an assumption of me would be quite in vain. Secondly, People used to think, people flying would be breaking the laws of Physics... We don't break laws, just find a way around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 There's a house somewhere around Albuquerque, NM that does things like this. The floors are all slanted at weird angles, and the result is that when you're in the house all kinds of weird stuff happens. Water appears to flow uphill, balls rolling on tables uphill. It's all an illusion, of course, but it's really cool nonetheless. Ok I did a little research on this today, since this was actually starting to bug me. I guess there are several spots like this (at least in the US) that they call "mystery spots", where things seem to defy gravity. Being a skeptic myself I would normally write something as this off as an optical illusion, but having experienced this for myself, if I recall there were too many things that were strange outside of the house, not even using the house itself as a frame of reference. For example you can stand outside on a level non-sloping piece of ground (looking towards the trees instead of the geometirically challenged house) and you can feel gravity tilt you back, yet you don't fall over. Then you walk a few feet to a different spot (same non-sloping piece of ground) and you stand straight up. I wish I had a Bic lighter with me at the time because I would love to have seen how the flame itself would behave if the ligher was flat on the ground in the two different spots then lit. Anyway, this I wasn't quite sure what to make of. The thing I found kind of suprising is that I actually found very little research done on this, at least that's on the web. Suprising because the phenomena is fully demonstratable, testable and verifiable, 7x24 day or night. One site theorizes that it is purely an optical illusion, another site claims that testing has revealed that time actually slows by about 3 minutes in a 24 hour period within the boundry of the site, and they theorize that it is a gravity vortex of some type. (link to one of the sites is below). It's easy to write it off as an optical illusion by psychologists, but the fact is that you can do your own little personal tests at this site and remain a bit skeptical of that conclusion. Having experienced it myself it would be nice to see a gravity expert or two do some testing in that particular discipline to either confirm the psychologist claim or disprove it. Anyway if anyone is ever in Santa Cruz I would say definitely check it out for yourself especially if you are a skeptic. It's worth the experience in my opinion, and you can test it for yourself.... http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Sant...SantaCruzCA.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highvoltage Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Anyway if anyone is ever in Santa Cruz I would say definitely check it out for yourself especially if you are a skeptic. It's worth the experience in my opinion, and you can test it for yourself.... http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Sant...SantaCruzCA.htm Yes, I am skeptical. One test that would take the mystery out of the mystery spot is to make a gravity map of the area. Wildcatters do this in searching for oil. If there truly is an anomaly in the area (enough to dilate time by 3 minutes a day), it would be very measurable. In fact, more than measurable, it would be lethal to us. Time slows in the presence of a gravitational field. The stronger the field, the slower time goes (as relative to an observer outside of the field). Stretching time by this amount would necessitate an enormous gravitational field in the area (if the time dilation is due to gravity, as claimed by the website). Well, not to say that it wouldn't be fun to play around in this mystery spot, but it's most likely due to optical illusions rather than any real as yet undiscovered natural phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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