Spare the rod, spoil the child?

[Sensitive_Flower]

PROVERBS

13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

19:18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

 

If in the future I should decide to procreate and produce a mini me, Im not sure that I would advocate spanking them. I wouldn’t be so naïve to say that I would never hit them as I am not in the situation yet, but considering my experiences growing up with a fundy preacher father, he loved the rod and spoiled me mentally so I cannot imagine myself doing this. Anyhow sob story over and the question in hand is as follows:

 

Chrisitans: do you or would you hit your children? If you do, is this due to the directions given biblically and are you working from the angle that the bible is inerrant? Are there any guidelines on the size of said rod? If you wouldn’t or don’t advocate hitting a child, how do get around these clear, unambiguous and ‘moral’ instructions given in the bible?

 

Ex-Christians/Others: do you or would you hit your children? Has your views on this changed since your deconversion or remained the same?

[Vixentrox]

I don't have kids. But I was spanked. Never did me any (permenant) harm and often the threat of dad's belt was enough to keep me in line after the first time.

[Vixentrox]

I don't have kids. But I was spanked. Never did me any (permenant) harm and often the threat of dad's belt was enough to keep me in line after the first time.

[Guest Priapus]

I do not spank my young'uns (3 and 5), but it's not for moral reasons. I did a few times early on but found it uneffective. We've taken to removing Precious Toys to a penalty area. Now, just the threat of that is often enough to change behavior.

 

ie. "Do that again and your soldiers go away for the rest of the day"

 

 

In addition, with the older one we'll do the praise/correct/praise, shit-sandwich model.

 

You're my great kid, you're my kind boy. Yesterday you were so helpful and good to your sister and helped her up the stairs. [praise with real supporting evidence] Now you're hurting her and that makes me very unhappy. [correction, describing specific behavior]. That's not the kind of thing I expect from my best boy. Come on now, you know the right thing.

 

 

This does the following:

 

1. identifies the specific undesired behavior;

2. affirms to the kid that he's loved and cherished;

3. gives the kid solid evidence to remind him he is a good kid;

4. separates the kid from the behavior. ie. You are not bad, you are doing the wrong thing.";

5. Sets expectations for future.

 

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sounds touchy-feely-granola-Berkeley, I know. But lemme tellya, this has been WAY more effective than spanking. This has been standard-treatment for boy the past year or so. Girl is just turned 3 and is starting to understand more and is getting this treatment as well. This, paired with the penalty of removing toys/privileges, has proven highly effective.

 

To the Scripture's credit, there's some kinda something in Proverbs, I think, where it admonishes fathers not to exasperate their children.

[Vixentrox]

Oh I had other punishments too like weeding the gardens and washing dishes, no phone useage and the like. The belt was the most feared though till I got older.

[Guest Priapus]

Oh I had other punishments too like weeding the gardens and washing dishes,

 

 

That was punishment? That was required when I was a kid.

[LadyFeline]

In the hypothetical situation of me having children (which, in reality, is never going to happen), I can honestly say I would spank them.

 

But I would NEVER use an object other than the flat of my hand, would never use any more force than that necessary to sting, and would never hit more than seven times at most.

 

Anything beyond that is, IMHO, bordering on abuse. Indeed, using an object that is not the hand and leaving welts and bruises is abuse, if you ask me.

[Vigile]

If in the future I should decide to procreate and produce a mini me, Im not sure that I would advocate spanking them.  I wouldn’t be so naïve to say that I would never hit them as I am not in the situation yet, but considering my experiences growing up with a fundy preacher father, he loved the rod and spoiled me mentally so I cannot imagine myself doing this.  Anyhow sob story over and the question in hand is as follows:

 

Chrisitans: do you or would you hit your children?  If you do, is this due to the directions given biblically and are you working from the angle that the bible is inerrant? Are there any guidelines on the size of said rod?  If you wouldn’t or don’t advocate hitting a child, how do get around these clear, unambiguous and ‘moral’ instructions given in the bible?

 

Ex-Christians/Others: do you or would you hit your children?  Has your views on this changed since your deconversion or remained the same?

 

I honestly have no idea since I am not a father and don't plan to be any time soon. I can say that I respect my father's decision. He was/is a christian, but I am in awe of the way he handled it. He never once hit me when he was angry. If he was angry he would leave and then come back when he was calm. He would then sit me down and tell me that he had to spank me because he loved me and because it was for my own good. He would then spank me, though not violently. The pain was slight and mostly psychological.

 

His father was very cold and distant to him and he had a hard childhood. I respect the fact that he was able to overcome this and make an intelligent decision about how he would handle my brother and I when we were out of hand. I'm not sure I would have his maturity.

[Sensitive_Flower]

I honestly have no idea since I am not a father and don't plan to be any time soon.  I can say that I respect my father's decision.  He was/is a christian, but I am in awe of the way he handled it.  He never once hit me when he was angry.  If he was angry he would leave and then come back when he was calm.  He would then sit me down and tell me that he had to spank me because he loved me and because it was for my own good.  He would then spank me, though not violently.  The pain was slight and mostly psychological. 

 

His father was very cold and distant to him and he had a hard childhood.  I respect the fact that he was able to overcome this and make an intelligent decision about how he would handle my brother and I when we were out of hand.  I'm not sure I would have his maturity.

 

You're father sounds like a good man. Im slightly jealous that you had such a level headed father.

[LadyFeline]

I honestly have no idea since I am not a father and don't plan to be any time soon.  I can say that I respect my father's decision.  He was/is a christian, but I am in awe of the way he handled it.  He never once hit me when he was angry.  If he was angry he would leave and then come back when he was calm.  He would then sit me down and tell me that he had to spank me because he loved me and because it was for my own good.  He would then spank me, though not violently.  The pain was slight and mostly psychological. 

 

His father was very cold and distant to him and he had a hard childhood.  I respect the fact that he was able to overcome this and make an intelligent decision about how he would handle my brother and I when we were out of hand.  I'm not sure I would have his maturity.

 

You're father sounds like a good man. Im slightly jealous that you had such a level headed father.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ditto. My father used his belt on me and my brothers (and on me more often than my brothers, who caused more trouble) more often than anything else. I still hate him for that, among other things.

 

I envy people who have decent paternal figures...

[Darkenmoon]

I do not believe spanking is a good option. I do believe it is a harmful option. If I should ever have kids, I will not use spanking to punish my children. I think time outs, reasonable expectations, and other less violent methods work infinitely better

[Vixentrox]

That was punishment? That was required when I was a kid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It didn't take much to get assigned punishment it seemed.

[Checkmate]

Good topic.

 

I notice that the "do not spank" crowd have NO children at this time. Interesting.

 

(Also darn funny! ) I won't argue with your "future" choice, but I'd love to be able to hear from y'all in the future to see how things are turning out. (Tee-hee!)

 

As a father of two, and a former child myself, I can say with certainty that "spanking", or corporeal punishment works wonders.

 

When done appropriately, the right amount of force, at the right time, the right age, you can raise well-developed kids and good citizens.

 

When done inappropriately, the wrong amount of force, the wrong time, the wrong age, you can scar someone for life and produce the world's next serial killer (or Xian ).

 

We disciplined our kids early and often. They are now 13 (twin boys). I am happy to say that we no longer need to "spank". Haven't touched them in YEARS. And they are healthy, obedient, respectful of others and well-adjusted.

 

Just TODAY I came back from a pool party that the Pool Staff held in HONOR of my boys for being a great help and an inspiration for others. (I'm so proud! Sniff!)

 

But, all I'm saying is that done PROPERLY, and NOT psychotically, DISCIPLINE, NOT ABUSE will yield the right results.

 

And as someone pointed out before, "It didn't hurt me."

 

That's my personal testimony on parenting. I know others of you haven't been this fortunate and despise the "spanking" theory. Oh well. I'm just saying it all depends on MANY factors.

 

Fact is: some people just shouldn't BE parents. THAT'S the real problem. Not what kind of discipline is used.

 

OK. I'll get down off my soap box now.

[Alice]

I notice that the "do not spank" crowd have NO children at this time.  Interesting.

 

I'm firmly part of the do not spank crowd. I was not a member when I didn't have kids (having been conditioned by the corporal punishment metered out to me as a child to think it was a good thing)

 

I joined the do not spank crowd when I had children.

 

I have four children. I realised the error of my ways when my oldest children were three and four. I have never smacked since. The behaviour of children numbers three and four was far easier to manage without ever smacking.

 

I hate smacking/spanking. I think it is barbaric. It's just a coincidence that some well behaved children are smacked. They are wellbehaved for other reasons. Smacking does no good and often does harm.

 

Hitting children needs to go the same way that 'knocking some sense into the little lady' has gone. Both are equally wrong. How we can really believe that hitting children is a useful way of teaching them anything is now beyond me.

 

The Bible's support for hitting children with sticks was one of the first things that really turned me off christianity.

[MrSpooky]

If I ever mouthed off (like, trying to ask someone to pass the pepper shaker at dinner) daddy'd beat my ass until I bled from at least three orifices. Newly made orifices by the shiv didn't count.

 

He called it the "triple leak." I miss those days.

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, this post is made in all sarcasm.

[Cerise]

My parents say they spanked me, but I honestly don't remember ever getting a spanking.

 

If they did, they either stopped at a very early age or I've blocked it.

[Guest Priapus]

Good topic.

 

I notice that the "do not spank" crowd have NO children at this time.  Interesting.

 

 

Negative, TK421, I gots two, but like I said, my non-spankage isn't on moral grounds but pragmatic. If it worked to enforce discipline, I'd spank 'em good. It just didn't work with mine. I might as well have been praying for them. It had no effect. The program I describe above has been much more effective to prevent the unwanted and promote the Model Citizen Behaviors.

[Lanakila]

Every child is different. We were fundies when our kids were young and we did spank them. But we used spankings as a form of discipline, not punishment. By that I mean we didn't take our anger out on our children, and we were actually trying to teach them to behave in positive ways. My youngest is only 5 but thankfully she has a very compliant personality and so I don't think we will every be faced with the spank or not to spank question with her.

 

With one of my other children just the threat of a spanking worked for the most part. He was rarely spanked. My middle two however are strong willed and have ADHD. We never really found anything that would work all the time, and for the most part maturing in age has been the biggest help with one of them. One of my children I feel ready to throw up my hands on most of the time because nothing seems to work. But, hopefully she'll grow up to be a happy and well adjusted adult.

[Guest aexapo]

Ex-Christians/Others: do you or would you hit your children?  Has your views on this changed since your deconversion or remained the same?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe in corporal punishment because I believe, like dogs, humans are animals -- animals that respond well to training. Children left to chase their fancy without restraint generally stay at home into adulthood, and are never able to hold employment -- or they end up in prison, because they never learned that one word: "No."

 

I would use corporal punishment, when warranted, with restraint, and only as a tool of discipline, never out of anger. I would do it because I'm a realist, not because "the Bible tells me so."

[Amethyst]

I was spanked, but it didn't do me as much harm as my fundy mother who kept telling me that I was going straight to hell constantly. I will never, ever berate my kids like that if I have any. Never.

[Ouroboros]

If in the future I should decide to procreate and produce a mini me, Im not sure that I would advocate spanking them.  I wouldn’t be so naïve to say that I would never hit them as I am not in the situation yet, but considering my experiences growing up with a fundy preacher father, he loved the rod and spoiled me mentally so I cannot imagine myself doing this.  Anyhow sob story over and the question in hand is as follows:

 

Chrisitans: do you or would you hit your children?  If you do, is this due to the directions given biblically and are you working from the angle that the bible is inerrant? Are there any guidelines on the size of said rod?  If you wouldn’t or don’t advocate hitting a child, how do get around these clear, unambiguous and ‘moral’ instructions given in the bible?

 

Ex-Christians/Others: do you or would you hit your children?  Has your views on this changed since your deconversion or remained the same?

The spanked our first kids for a while, but I felt so bad doing it, so we stopped.

I would never spank my kids again. I talk to them and try to make them understand things instead. Rational thought goes a long way, and if that doesn't work, then violence doesn't work anyway. So in the end, it's better to never spank.

[Fweethawt]

Either I am extremely fortunate, or my children are freaks of nature.

 

Even when they were just a couple of little tykes, my stern voice was enough for them be good. I've never had (or felt the desire) to beat them. And, to this day, I've recieved nothing but compliments from family members, teachers, and parents of friends about the behavior of my children.

 

 

<<<now, excuse me while I step outside and let my head shrink back down to normal size. >>>

[Ro-bear]

I do not find it necessary to spank my children. There are many humane disciplinary strategies that are quite effective. A knowledge of psychology is helpful. The key: consistency.

 

Of course, I have only daughters. Perhaps sons are a different story.

[godlessgrrl]

Hmmm. I remember getting spanked sometimes as a kid. I also remember having my hands slapped. Neither one ever taught me anything other than to be afraid of my parents hurting me, fwiw. I sure don't remember anything about what I was smacked for...

 

Those verses about the rod thing are, imnsvho, highly misquoted by lotsa ppl. I can remember one of the things I did when I was Xian was do my best to understand the context of whatever verse from when it was written, and I remember learning somewhere that the "rod" referred to was a shepherd's rod, standard issue for bronze age herders, along with the oft-mentioned staff. The rod was shorter than the staff and was used to push sheep around, not beat them up. (It could be used to beat off wolves, though.)

 

So using the rod verses to justify hitting yer kids is, again imnsvho, a load o' honk.

[Darkenmoon]

It's interesting I think that kids are really the only group we can legally stil spank or whap. If you did this to criminals many people would be seriously protesting. Even with animals, there are many people who would consider reporting you to the authorities. Why do kids get the "honor" of being the only group for whom spanking is still permissible and even encouraged?