Vigile Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Yes sinners will be punished. God is perfect and holy and man is dead in his sins. You have it right...God has made vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath. I don't know how any sane person can swallow this calvanist shit. Maybe this breaks the Coliseum rules but it needs to be pointed out. If I were you I'd run, not walk to the nearest shrink and beg for meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I have a question for ThreeD. I don't want to argue, I'm just curious. Obviously you came to the beliefs you espouse here via Biblical teachings. How did you conclude that the Bible is a correct and reliable set of instructions and explanations for our universe? In other words, how do you know it is the only true holy text and that you are interpreting it correctly (or had it correctly interpreted for you)? Because he asked the holy spirit to direct him and he has faith the size of a mustard seed as long as what he is asking for is something so abstract and irreducible as asking god to put him on the correct path to truth. Whereas, he were to ask god to cure cancer, mend a broken finger, or regrow a toe he would be much more apt to hedge his bets by giving god room to give any old answer (yes, no and wait a while - covers every basis of pure chance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I have a question for ThreeD. I don't want to argue, I'm just curious. Obviously you came to the beliefs you espouse here via Biblical teachings. How did you conclude that the Bible is a correct and reliable set of instructions and explanations for our universe? In other words, how do you know it is the only true holy text and that you are interpreting it correctly (or had it correctly interpreted for you)? Well this ill be my last response as I've been in the Lion's Den on another thread so sorry for not responding but to answer your qeustion... Every other religion, or holy book talks about a god, and man reaching that god. You can reach that god, or reach heaven by doing enough good works or deeds. Basically man is working for it. The bible is the only book that says that man cannot do enough good works to reach good or become righteous on God's standards. No amount of good works will get him there. The bible is the only one in which God sacrificed himself to save man and give Him a way to God free from works and only by grace. Also by the Holy Spirit. Also by researching and going back to the original greek texts, and claims of kings noting Jesus and everything he did. You might try googling the term "non sequitur" because your answer to F's reasonable question was a big ol' whopping one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Well this ill be my last response as I've been in the Lion's Den on another thread so sorry for not responding but to answer your qeustion... There were so many things we could have talk about. Every other religion, or holy book talks about a god, and man reaching that god. You can reach that god, or reach heaven by doing enough good works or deeds. Basically man is working for it. The bible is the only book that says that man cannot do enough good works to reach good or become righteous on God's standards. No amount of good works will get him there. The bible is the only one in which God sacrificed himself to save man and give Him a way to God free from works and only by grace. Also by the Holy Spirit. Gosh, are you in deep or what? Also by researching and going back to the original greek texts, and claims of kings noting Jesus and everything he did. So you have the originals? Damn! Why didn't you say so! And why aren't you sharing those with the historians? You've been keeping the originals all these years, hiding them away from everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Also by researching and going back to the original greek texts, and claims of kings noting Jesus and everything he did. So you have the originals? Damn! Why didn't you say so! And why aren't you sharing those with the historians? You've been keeping the originals all these years, hiding them away from everyone else? Oh crap, I missed that! Not only has he found some actual extra-biblical writers acknowledging "everything" (let alone anything at all, his existence included) that Jesus did, and they were actual kings nonetheless!, but he has has found the original autographs of the Gospels!!! This is the news of the millennium!!! We have amongst us probably the most important Biblical Scholar history has ever seen! Christendom most learn of this! I wonder which monastery's library he was searching through to find these MSS? Perhaps it was an earthen jar found in a cave during one of his archeology digs in Egypt? I'm dying to know. The world is dying to know! At last we can see what Mark actually said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 And... we now know the original text was in Greek, not Aramaic! Wink wink... nudge nudge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 And... we now know the original text was in Greek, not Aramaic! Wink wink... nudge nudge... He didn't say the original text, the autographs... but the original Greek texts... I have an original Illinois English Vernacular text of The Lord's Prayer... Even that is amazing, since there are many many copies of the Gospels... I love this site because it leads you through exercises to learn how ancient texts are analyzed. http://www.earlham.edu/~seidti/iam/interp_mss.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 And... we now know the original text was in Greek, not Aramaic! Wink wink... nudge nudge... He didn't say the original text, the autographs... but the original Greek texts... Oh, yes that's true. So it would still be a later translation, damn it! Know we'll never know, unless we can find that lost recording of Jesus' actual sermon on the mount - in Aramaic of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 He didn't say the original text, the autographs... but the original Greek texts... I have an original Illinois English Vernacular text of The Lord's Prayer... Even that is amazing, since there are many many copies of the Gospels... I love this site because it leads you through exercises to learn how ancient texts are analyzed. Yeah. You're right. It's not the original texts, but just the original Greek text. But still, it's pretty amazing that he sits on the actual original documents. I think it's the discovery of our millennium, and he should let scientists and analysts research them to pinpoint the date more exactly to when they were written, and perhaps we can even find out who translated the Aramaic texts too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have a question for ThreeD. I don't want to argue, I'm just curious. Obviously you came to the beliefs you espouse here via Biblical teachings. How did you conclude that the Bible is a correct and reliable set of instructions and explanations for our universe? In other words, how do you know it is the only true holy text and that you are interpreting it correctly (or had it correctly interpreted for you)? Well this ill be my last response as I've been in the Lion's Den on another thread so sorry for not responding but to answer your qeustion... Every other religion, or holy book talks about a god, and man reaching that god. You can reach that god, or reach heaven by doing enough good works or deeds. Basically man is working for it. The bible is the only book that says that man cannot do enough good works to reach good or become righteous on God's standards. No amount of good works will get him there. The bible is the only one in which God sacrificed himself to save man and give Him a way to God free from works and only by grace. Also by the Holy Spirit. Also by researching and going back to the original greek texts, and claims of kings noting Jesus and everything he did. Thanks for your response. I felt kinda bad for the kid reading his response. Then I realized, you hadnt done anything. How could you live your life based on THAT?? THAT is 3Ds reasons?? Man I made up more BS than that to pretend to myself, I found the BEST OF THE BEST apologists to feed me better reasons than THAT Holy shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 And... we now know the original text was in Greek, not Aramaic! Wink wink... nudge nudge... He didn't say the original text, the autographs... but the original Greek texts... Oh, yes that's true. So it would still be a later translation, damn it! Know we'll never know, unless we can find that lost recording of Jesus' actual sermon on the mount - in Aramaic of course. Reel to reel... no... wax cylinders??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Reel to reel... no... wax cylinders??? Or perhaps clay pots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naiya Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Concerning the OP. As Lewis Black put it, "the God of the Old Testament is kind of like a raging alcoholic." Some liberal Christians (myself included until I deconverted) believe that the OT God was not the NT God, that the OT God was some sort of imposter or possibly the OT was written by men pretending to have been inspired by God. For the most part when I read the OT, it sounds like it's just a bunch of psychopaths using God as justification for doing whatever they want to. If you hold the OT God to the same standard as a person, he is not holy, not loving, not forgiving, in essence morally bankrupt. All the proof we need is that fact that NO modern day society lives by every rule and standard of the OT. Why? Because deep down we all know it's insane to murder a child for talking back or disobeying. Not to mention their pets! I mean, wife and kids aside (the argument of whether they were "in on it" and thus deserved the same punishment doesn't need to be rehashed), WHAT IN THE WORLD DID THE POOR OXEN DO?! Poor innocent animals! At least the people could have auctioned them off! And the tent, too! It's actually SO extreme that it's kind of comical. Well this ill be my last response as I've been in the Lion's Den on another thread so sorry for not responding but to answer your qeustion... Every other religion, or holy book talks about a god, and man reaching that god. You can reach that god, or reach heaven by doing enough good works or deeds. Basically man is working for it. The bible is the only book that says that man cannot do enough good works to reach good or become righteous on God's standards. No amount of good works will get him there. The bible is the only one in which God sacrificed himself to save man and give Him a way to God free from works and only by grace. Also by the Holy Spirit. Also by researching and going back to the original greek texts, and claims of kings noting Jesus and everything he did. Okay, I'm going to ignore that last thing since it's already been covered by about five people. But your assertion that every religion has a god is simply not true at all. Please go take a world religion class or pick up a book on world religion. Many ancient religions, especially in the East, did NOT have ANY gods. Buddhism is the most obvious example (And no, the Buddha himself is not a god, he is technically an Arahat or ascended master). It is often referred to as an atheistic religion. Some sects believed in gods, but even then, the gods were considered "the furniture of the universe" as my professor put it, and thus the gods have ZERO interest in humanity. Jainism, to my understanding, also has no gods. In any case in both of those religions the goal has nothing to do with reaching ANY God, but to escape the cycle of death and rebirth, attaining enlightenment, and progressing to a higher plane of existence, thus escaping the condition of human suffering. Many other ancients were known to have practiced ancestor worship, animism, and shamanism, with or without gods. Not to mention the countless polytheistic religions, but I'm assuming that you don't really believe all religions only have one god--no one's that ignorant (I hope). Not every religion has a creation story, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I wonder how old the kids were. That deluded Christian earlier seemed to suggest the children were old enough to be able to understand what was going on and were quite capable of correcting their father of his actions. Huh? How can anyone know that? There may have been babies and toddlers involved here. The guy may have even did that stuff without the rest of the family knowing. The rest of the family may also be too afraid to speak up against him in case they got the crap beat out of them. Wives had to be subserviant to the husband. They had not say in anything. Oh the ridiculous justifications some Christians make to try to excuse their God's atrocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Finally, we need to try to understand the infinite, magestic holiness of God. We cannot - since we're sinners by nature and all that we think, do , & say is polluted by sin. SO we tend to "understand" why someone would sin, and we indentify with that character flaw, even making excuses for the sin that we and others commit. However, God cannot do that, He cannot approve of sin - any sin. He can use sin and turn it around and accomplish good by it (which reveals His wisdom and power) - but He does not and cannot condone sin. His infinite holiness and justice demand just retribution. Do you really believe this shit? We cannot hurt God in anyway; yet he must punish us "sinners" in the worst way imaginable. Only a sick, Orwellian mind can call such a being "good". Only a perverted mind can call such a religion "good news". This parts sticks out like a sore thumb; "His infinite holiness and justice demand just retribution." You fucking tard! You say we are sinners by nature, then you say God must punish us for acting according to that nature. And you have the fucking nerve to say your god is just???? LOL! Why does this remind me of the thread about the Texas Girls basketball game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts