I Believe In Re-incarnation, Now Im Really Confused!

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Well, as I have deconverted I have found out a few things out about what I believe in life,

 

1) I can't find justification for believing there is no CREATOR.....I just can't, I understand where Atheists are coming from though....I also think they are very brave for being able to believe there is nothing afterwards and still enjoy a good life and treat others fairly, I have no reason to mock somebody or look down upon them for any reason for NOT believing something.

 

2) I can't believe this world is allowed to suffer so much evil by the CREATOR, I can only come up with the fact that we as souls, spirits, whatever, chose and planned out certain things and knew the consequences and were allowed to come to this life, but i cant believe the CREATOR would perpetrate pain and suffering and be all Loving, the Xtian concept never made sense to me.

 

3) For the 3rd time now, I have been "read" and told about a specific past life event with my soul mate, in exact detail, there is no possible way for any of them to have known each other...no way at all, this has spanned 4 years and 1 person locally, another in a neighboring city and today's reading (free of charge by a person concerned with my wife and my struggles) from a lady in Arizona.

 

4) With this information I am left with believing in a CREATOR and Re-Incarnation...now where to go from there only time will tell because Im not about to up and join some religion because of this, I am interested in learning ABOUT a few but I am not pledging allegiance into anything for a very very long time, if ever. I want to be a free spirit kinda guy but with a rational philosphy of life to put things into some basic perspective.

 

So, what I really wanted was some comments from people who believe in past lives and re-incarnation and what experiences they have had that made them believe, and so on, this is for me a little sigh of relief, I feel "right" somehow knowing it although my mind says (and many people will I am sure) that its crazy.

 

Thats ok, I will be ridiculed and mocked and whatever for this new found view but, so what. Florduh, I am officially Spooky...lol

 

Please, tell me your stories, I have something to be fascinated in now!! It feels good.

 

That X-Files episode "The Field Where I Died" always resonated with me, and that quote from Robert Browning's Paracelsus is engrained in my mind,

 

 

 

...at times I almost dream

I too have spent a life the sages' way,

And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance

I perished in an arrogant self-reliance

Ages ago; and in that act, a prayer

For one more chance went up so earnest, so

Instinct with better light let in by death,

That life was blotted out-not so completely

But scattered wrecks enough of it remain,

Dim memories, as now, when once more seems

The goal in sight again...

[Deva]

1) I can't find justification for believing there is no CREATOR.....I just can't, I understand where Atheists are coming from though....I also think they are very brave for being able to believe there is nothing afterwards and still enjoy a good life and treat others fairly, I have no reason to mock somebody or look down upon them for any reason for NOT believing something.

 

Not all atheists "believe there is nothing afterwards." Yes, there is no reason for mockery.

 

2) I can't believe this world is allowed to suffer so much evil by the CREATOR, I can only come up with the fact that we as souls, spirits, whatever, chose and planned out certain things and knew the consequences and were allowed to come to this life, but i cant believe the CREATOR would perpetrate pain and suffering and be all Loving, the Xtian concept never made sense to me.

 

The loving and yet all-powerful God does not make sense in view of the condition of the world. Why the need for a Creator though? Why not just say the universe always was?

 

I don't know what to make of your point (3) so I will just have to say no comment.

 

4) With this information I am left with believing in a CREATOR and Re-Incarnation...now where to go from there only time will tell because Im not about to up and join some religion because of this, I am interested in learning ABOUT a few but I am not pledging allegiance into anything for a very very long time, if ever. I want to be a free spirit kinda guy but with a rational philosphy of life to put things into some basic perspective.

 

Yes, why put pressure on yourself to commit to a religion? Enjoy your exploration.

 

So, what I really wanted was some comments from people who believe in past lives and re-incarnation and what experiences they have had that made them believe, and so on, this is for me a little sigh of relief, I feel "right" somehow knowing it although my mind says (and many people will I am sure) that its crazy.

 

Even while I was a Christian I always held open the possibility that reincarnation was true. I have recently become convinced. Long ago I read some studies by a professor Stevenson that related some incidents in India and other countries where children talked about their past lives. I knew it wasn't science, but it was very interesting. Then later I had some experiences with what I can only call an altered state of consciousness. I am not going into further detail, but it was a gradual awareness. I can't say I fully appreciate all the implications of reincarnation yet, they are profound, but I am definately on board with it.

 

Thats ok, I will be ridiculed and mocked and whatever for this new found view

 

I would hope that the ridicule and mockery would be kept to at least a dull roar on this section of the forum.

 

I like the poem.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

DEVALIGHT:

 

I meant that an Atheist who believes there is no afterlife is brave if they don't live their life in fear of that, I didnt mean they all have one belief, maybe i should edit that??? I dont want to offend anybody, i have no intention of that at all.

 

Why I dont believe the universe always was??? I'm not an expert in the sciences concerning this but I have seen, read and heard enough to doubt that its possible for it to have always existed, I have come to a conclusion based on the little I know, men and women have fought over this since the beginning of time and probably will until time ceases, if it ceases, my opinion on the matter will not change the world, nor do I want to change anything at this point, Im coming into a self realization with this, live and let live.

 

My point 3? Well, its tripping me out BIG TIME...I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT!!! Other than it nudges me further into my approaching the reality of Reincarnation....whatever happened there cant be explained in any 'normal' way, I choose to believe its true, it 'clicks'.

 

I hope a dull roar, but really I am not arguing anything here.....nor trying to impose my beliefs on anybody.....I am curious and I want to hear of others' experiences.

 

I guess I feel a bit gun-shy about relaying a newfound belief in something here at ExC because I cant explain it in a way thats going to satisfy most people here, almost everybody knows way more about almost every subject than I do and its an intimidating crowd, intellectually, I am an infant around this place.

 

I would just rather my beliefs not get trampled on like the Xtians would do, I am hoping for some understanding and encouragement...not a debate, thats all.

 

You say you are a believer in it, perhaps a PM about how you came to your revelations???

 

If not I understand.....thank you for your reply though.

 

BTW, I like your avatar, what is that from?? who is that??? It reminds me of Galadriel or something....I am beginning to really like the Godess type imagery, or the feminine divinity stuff, for my wife.

 

Xtianity is so Patristic, I like viewing her as my soul's mate and not some underling, I never liked that stuff anyways.

 

She just signed on board here last night....perhaps you two will chat!

[Deva]

I meant that an Atheist who believes there is no afterlife is brave if they don't live their life in fear of that, I didnt mean they all have one belief, maybe i should edit that??? I dont want to offend anybody, i have no intention of that at all.

 

OK, no problem. It was not offensive to me.

 

You say you are a believer in it, perhaps a PM about how you came to your revelations???

 

Maybe if I can figure out how to put it into words.

 

BTW, I like your avatar, what is that from?? who is that??? It reminds me of Galadriel or something....I am beginning to really like the Godess type imagery, or the feminine divinity stuff, for my wife.

 

It was an avatar selected from this site. It just says "goddess". I don't know if its supposed to be any particular one.

 

She just signed on board here last night....perhaps you two will chat!

 

That would be fine!

[SWIM]

Well, as I have deconverted I have found out a few things out about what I believe in life,

 

1) I can't find justification for believing there is no CREATOR.....I just can't, I understand where Atheists are coming from though....I also think they are very brave for being able to believe there is nothing afterwards and still enjoy a good life and treat others fairly, I have no reason to mock somebody or look down upon them for any reason for NOT believing something.

 

If there "were" a single creator, there would have to also be an infinite amount of gods. The best thing you can do imo at this point, is EXPAND your mind. Study astronomy, and information about the universe. When you come to grips with scale, space and time, at least a raw basic understanding, you might start to realize the idea of a creator is absurd.

 

2) I can't believe this world is allowed to suffer so much evil by the CREATOR, I can only come up with the fact that we as souls, spirits, whatever, chose and planned out certain things and knew the consequences and were allowed to come to this life, but i cant believe the CREATOR would perpetrate pain and suffering and be all Loving, the Xtian concept never made sense to me.

 

This because there is no creator at all, we invented one to ward off a fear of death, of dying and being dead. This is unacceptable to many people, and has been since we walked upright. We also invented a creator to explain things, like lightening, earthquakes, anything strange we tacked on to a god. EVIL is only a concept. In stark reality there is no good or evil, there only simply is what "is". We identify things, and define them as "evil" because things that are deliberately harmful, and done originating from the emotion of hate or fear, are defined as evil. For the most part logical reasons can be found for evil. Brain damage, emotional instability, brain chemistry, giving in to emotions of greed fear and hate. All things when traced back well enough can be explained. Good or evil, neither are forces of nature, nor do they embody any power of their own.

 

 

3) For the 3rd time now, I have been "read" and told about a specific past life event with my soul mate, in exact detail, there is no possible way for any of them to have known each other...no way at all, this has spanned 4 years and 1 person locally, another in a neighboring city and today's reading (free of charge by a person concerned with my wife and my struggles) from a lady in Arizona.

 

Ever watch crossing over with john edwards? Seems uncanny doesnt it? There are ways very savy people, really good cons, can make you believe something. Many "readers" (possibly all of them) are cons. It doesn't seem quite a streach that both would reach the same conclusions if they were using the same cross examining methods as each other.

 

4) With this information I am left with believing in a CREATOR and Re-Incarnation...now where to go from there only time will tell because Im not about to up and join some religion because of this, I am interested in learning ABOUT a few but I am not pledging allegiance into anything for a very very long time, if ever. I want to be a free spirit kinda guy but with a rational philosphy of life to put things into some basic perspective.

 

Learning! Learning makes all the difference! Start with science imo, reading book about re-incarnation, written by people who believe in RI will only cause you to brainwash yourself into believing it based on unfounded research and shoody science. One must be careful what one studies, or you can get mislead yet again, the same way religion misleads people.

 

Be a walking question mark, put every new concept to the test, think things over. Don't be afraid to search for skepical viewpoints on the things you research. Think of your mind as a sort of court. If all there are is plantifs, and no defendence, justice will not be served. So look at both opinons deeply before you embrace a concept. And I suggest NOT embracing any concept, but rather think of things as theories, that way you can adjust them, and revise them. "Belief" can be too dismissive. Believing fully in something tends to slam shut any doors containing new information.

 

 

You asked for responses from people who believe in RI... Please don't seek simply re-enforcing answers, rather let both sides have equal airtime in your mind. I think you will become wiser about these things if you do.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

4) With this information I am left with believing in a CREATOR and Re-Incarnation...now where to go from there only time will tell because Im not about to up and join some religion because of this, I am interested in learning ABOUT a few but I am not pledging allegiance into anything for a very very long time, if ever. I want to be a free spirit kinda guy but with a rational philosphy of life to put things into some basic perspective.

 

Learning! Learning makes all the difference! Start with science imo, reading book about re-incarnation, written by people who believe in RI will only cause you to brainwash yourself into believing it based on unfounded research and shoody science. One must be careful what one studies, or you can get mislead yet again, the same way religion misleads people.

 

Be a walking question mark, put every new concept to the test, think things over. Don't be afraid to search for skepical viewpoints on the things you research. Think of your mind as a sort of court. If all there are is plantifs, and no defendence, justice will not be served. So look at both opinons deeply before you embrace a concept. And I suggest NOT embracing any concept, but rather think of things as theories, that way you can adjust them, and revise them. "Belief" can be too dismissive. Believing fully in something tends to slam shut any doors containing new information.

 

 

You asked for responses from people who believe in RI... Please don't seek simply re-enforcing answers, rather let both sides have equal airtime in your mind. I think you will become wiser about these things if you do.

 

SWIM, I dont know where to start, first I guess with why I ask for certain responses.

 

A)Because I was a Xtian apologist and I studied how to break down and 'destroy' every belief that was contrary to Xtian dogma for over a decade???

 

B ) Because my wife has believed in RI the whole time we have known eachother and I have already looked into the contrary evidence about it

 

C ) Because I have heard the reasons it cant be so from every angle on TV, Radio, in churches, on the net, so I already have the info....

 

So thats why I want to hear the pros, I guarantee for every PRO I will get in reply, I have heard 1000 cons during the course of my life, it simply isnt necessary, thats why I asked to hear the pros, I am quite proficient in the cons side of this...it would just waste time to have everybody that doesnt believe in it tell me why they dont, its simple redundancy that I am trying to avoid, not contrary opinions.

 

I think that summarizes the mistake I make when I ask for pros on some of my threads, I try to make disclaimers but I guess they havent been good enough.

 

If I ask for only pros its because I feel I am thoroughly versed in the cons of whatever topic I am talking about and I am not afraid of contrary opinion I am just trying to reduce redundancy.

 

I think I will answer your other responses in multiple posts, they were a bit lengthy and you had a lot to say, iw ould like to say some things back and I want to keep this in good cheer...I am REALLY trying to watch the way I word things as I have offended people here before and thought I was being offended and then things have escalated....so, please bear with me. I dont want to make the same mistakes, its easier to burn bridged but dificult to rebuild them.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Well, as I have deconverted I have found out a few things out about what I believe in life,

 

1) I can't find justification for believing there is no CREATOR.....I just can't, I understand where Atheists are coming from though....I also think they are very brave for being able to believe there is nothing afterwards and still enjoy a good life and treat others fairly, I have no reason to mock somebody or look down upon them for any reason for NOT believing something.

 

If there "were" a single creator, there would have to also be an infinite amount of gods. The best thing you can do imo at this point, is EXPAND your mind. Study astronomy, and information about the universe. When you come to grips with scale, space and time, at least a raw basic understanding, you might start to realize the idea of a creator is absurd.

 

 

Well I am no expert but I do have a basic knowwledge, I know the approx age of the earth, I know the approx age of the universe, I understand what a light year is, I understand there are numerous 'cycles' going on,not just the planets revolving around the sun, I know the uni is a dodecahedron shape, I know the uni is expanding I know the earth has expanded, I have read some Kaku, Hawking and Sagan.

 

I think I know more than the average person at least, I even studied the life of Johannes Koeppler last year.

 

I did not come to the decision that a Creator was absurd, how does finding the immensity and grandeur to be even more immense and more grand disqualify an entity rather than a reaction as the first cause??

 

And yes, I am of the opinion that the PRIME SOURCE would have created a hierarchy of 'gods' and these god would have done like wise and so on, I believe that Yahu is one of the lesser ones of these in our earth/space/time existence.

 

I cant see how you are coming to the conclusion that the more one is to know about the mechanisms of the universe, what that has to do with the reason it came to be?? Can you please explain that, maybe I am not understanding your reasoning.

 

TIA

[PiracyOfTheHead]

2) I can't believe this world is allowed to suffer so much evil by the CREATOR, I can only come up with the fact that we as souls, spirits, whatever, chose and planned out certain things and knew the consequences and were allowed to come to this life, but i cant believe the CREATOR would perpetrate pain and suffering and be all Loving, the Xtian concept never made sense to me.

 

This because there is no creator at all, we invented one to ward off a fear of death, of dying and being dead. This is unacceptable to many people, and has been since we walked upright. We also invented a creator to explain things, like lightening, earthquakes, anything strange we tacked on to a god. EVIL is only a concept. In stark reality there is no good or evil, there only simply is what "is". We identify things, and define them as "evil" because things that are deliberately harmful, and done originating from the emotion of hate or fear, are defined as evil. For the most part logical reasons can be found for evil. Brain damage, emotional instability, brain chemistry, giving in to emotions of greed fear and hate. All things when traced back well enough can be explained. Good or evil, neither are forces of nature, nor do they embody any power of their own.

 

The case could be made that we intuitively knew there must be a creator because death seems somehow wrong, itmay be unacceptable due to the fact that we instinctively know something, it may be instinct and then we go about making our mistakes about who this creator is and so on, I think both views are valid

 

1) We needed to create something to give us hope OR

 

2) We intuitively know the answer but have mangled up the creator concept with human imperfections in our capacity to understand such a one, making the idea SEEM absurd

[SWIM]

I did not come to the decision that a Creator was absurd, how does finding the immensity and grandeur to be even more immense and more grand disqualify an entity rather than a reaction as the first cause??

 

And yes, I am of the opinion that the PRIME SOURCE would have created a hierarchy of 'gods' and these god would have done like wise and so on, I believe that Yahu is one of the lesser ones of these in our earth/space/time existence.

 

I cant see how you are coming to the conclusion that the more one is to know about the mechanisms of the universe, what that has to do with the reason it came to be?? Can you please explain that, maybe I am not understanding your reasoning.

 

 

Thats just it, there is no prime source or first cause, it is constantly evolving and changing. Entire universes are born and die, the infinite nature of not only space, but time, precludes the possibility of any god at all.

 

It is hard to wrap your head around, but there always was "stuff" out there, and always will be, infinity works BACKWARDS as well as forward. This is why, in the grand scheme of things, there can be no god at all.

[florduh]

Hey, Spooky!

 

I have also had "experiences" so I understand how you can draw the conclusions you do.

 

Keep investigating, and good luck in finding a comfortable place.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Hey, Spooky!

 

I have also had "experiences" so I understand how you can draw the conclusions you do.

 

Keep investigating, and good luck in finding a comfortable place.

 

 

Hey Scully,

 

I sure do hope to find the comfort zone, while at the same time using reason and knowing the truth to an acceptable degree...damnit, this life is just way too friggin complicated aint it??????

[florduh]

Don't worry about it. You'll never know everything. Just make use of what you DO know and be satisfied with that, because there is nothing else.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

I did not come to the decision that a Creator was absurd, how does finding the immensity and grandeur to be even more immense and more grand disqualify an entity rather than a reaction as the first cause??

 

And yes, I am of the opinion that the PRIME SOURCE would have created a hierarchy of 'gods' and these god would have done like wise and so on, I believe that Yahu is one of the lesser ones of these in our earth/space/time existence.

 

I cant see how you are coming to the conclusion that the more one is to know about the mechanisms of the universe, what that has to do with the reason it came to be?? Can you please explain that, maybe I am not understanding your reasoning.

 

 

Thats just it, there is no prime source or first cause, it is constantly evolving and changing. Entire universes are born and die, the infinite nature of not only space, but time, precludes the possibility of any god at all.

 

It is hard to wrap your head around, but there always was "stuff" out there, and always will be, infinity works BACKWARDS as well as forward. This is why, in the grand scheme of things, there can be no god at all.

 

 

As far as I know time is a changing and tangible reality that does not ontologically necessitate having existed forever in infinity. By the way infinity IS time moving backwards and forwards, thats why the symbol for it is 8 sideways.... assuming no beginning nor ending, this is one of the things that eludes me and makes me not see your POV so clearly.

 

It seems like you're trying to fit your understanding of the cosmos and even the dimensionalities of all existence into your atheism, your first claim was that if I learned more about the cosmos in the various sciences that I would then find there can be no creator, now the other reason is that time moves backwards into infiniti, in your understanding, in that infiniti symbol, therefore since there wwas no beginning or ending there was no point at which a creation could have happened.

 

Ok I see what you are saying, I would then have to ask, even if the universe we live in never began and never ended, when do we pass back to the point where weve already been to??? If time is non-linear, we must be on a loop, otherwise there can be no infinity.

 

No beginning, no end, is a circle or a figure 8, or any line that has no point A or point B, so taking away the linear aspect of time it can only be a loop? it cant be non linear and non looped at the same time can it??

 

It seems easy to say there is no beginning or no end but then you need to express the reality of what we are left with, and that is where the shit gets thick because you have to get into dimensions and quantam physics and even the experts are divided, not one thing seems to be for certain in this life anymore....

 

In all honesty I am not one sidedly striking down your assertions, I simply do not see the conclusions as you do and I am giving the best questions that come to my mind based on what you're telling me, I am not 'stuck' in a belief to where I will not swerve no matter what you say, please dont think that, it's just that I am not seeing the same thing.

 

Like you said, learning and learning and learning...thats what I am prepared and willing to do.

 

And now you kinda see why I wanted to hear experiences...lol!!!

 

We could study at Oxford and NASA and mingle with the likes of Michio Kaku and Fred Allan Wolfe and the ghosts of Carl Sagan et al, and 2 decades from now, probably be bouncing the same arguments off each others melons, only with much more sophisticated language and charts and graphs.....

 

I will do as you said and just kep learning, I am fascinated with nature and the cosmos, unfortunately that hobby was basically stripped from me for 11 years because I was devoting every ounce of my life into Xtianity and the Bible....I am finding a re-kindling of my amazement and wonderment of looking into the night sky or walking through a nice park or going to a zoo, and fel compelled to know as much as is healthy =)

 

It is mind boggling my friend.

 

 

 

There are proven studies that gravity has an effect on time, if time can be affected, time can change, and if time can change it can also be something that once was not and now is

[SWIM]

It seems like you're trying to fit your understanding of the cosmos and even the dimensionalities of all existence into your atheism, your first claim was that if I learned more about the cosmos in the various sciences that I would then find there can be no creator, now the other reason is that time moves backwards into infiniti, in your understanding, in that infiniti symbol, therefore since there wwas no beginning or ending there was no point at which a creation could have happened.

 

No beginning or ending. Big Bangs are believed to be happening all the time, and have always happened all the time. Not trying to "fit" anything into anything. It simply is now, and always was. Sure "our" universe, just like all the other ones out there, begin and end, but there is no sound scientific reason to think any god like "being" did it on purpose. As I said, if one exists then uncountable ones of the same and all variations also exist. Why is this so terribly hard to understand?

 

Ok I see what you are saying, I would then have to ask, even if the universe we live in never began and never ended, when do we pass back to the point where weve already been to??? If time is non-linear, we must be on a loop, otherwise there can be no infinity.

 

I disagree Time can loop and can go backward, in subspace it is believed to be time zero, with no passing at all, and on the photonic level time is chaotic. I NEVER said our universe did not begin or end, UNIVERSES are constantly being born and die, you dont think our universe is the only on do you?

No beginning, no end, is a circle or a figure 8, or any line that has no point A or point B, so taking away the linear aspect of time it can only be a loop? it cant be non linear and non looped at the same time can it??

 

It can only be a loop in a closed minded observer who fails to fathom the concept of total limitless. WE as people NEED bounderies. When there are none, we call it a loop, thus creating limits and boundaries.

 

 

It seems easy to say there is no beginning or no end but then you need to express the reality of what we are left with, and that is where the shit gets thick because you have to get into dimensions and quantam physics and even the experts are divided, not one thing seems to be for certain in this life anymore....

 

I am not about to claim I KNOW these things as fact, my first post to you I not only said it was theory, but also encouraged you to think of things as theories and to be a walking question mark.

 

Don't get all mad, don't like what I said? Fine, that's your right to have an opinion, but dont tell me I am trying to form some justification for athiesm, because I have much more personal reasons for not beliving in the great tooth fairy then science theory.

 

Just seems to me that anyone who "really" thinks deep about the cosmos, can only conclude there is no god. Yes it is deep stuff. But its not limited by loopage or barriers either, only WE are.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

As far as I know time is a changing and tangible reality that does not ontologically necessitate having existed forever in infinity. By the way infinity IS time moving backwards and forwards, thats why the symbol for it is 8 sideways.... assuming no beginning nor ending, this is one of the things that eludes me and makes me not see your POV so clearly.

 

Nope, thats eterinty, different from infinity. Inifinity can have no end, as something would have to occupy that end.

 

It seems like you're trying to fit your understanding of the cosmos and even the dimensionalities of all existence into your atheism, your first claim was that if I learned more about the cosmos in the various sciences that I would then find there can be no creator, now the other reason is that time moves backwards into infiniti, in your understanding, in that infiniti symbol, therefore since there wwas no beginning or ending there was no point at which a creation could have happened.

 

No being or ending. Big Bangs are believed to be happening all the time, and have always happened all the time. Not trying to "fit" anything into anything. It simply is now, and always was. Sure "our" universe, just like all the other ones out there, begin and end, but there is no sound scientific reason to think any god like "being" did it on purpose. As I said, if one exists then uncountable ones of the same and all variations also exist. Why is this so terribly hard to understand?

 

Ok I see what you are saying, I would then have to ask, even if the universe we live in never began and never ended, when do we pass back to the point where weve already been to??? If time is non-linear, we must be on a loop, otherwise there can be no infinity.

 

Excuse me but that is total nonsense. Time can loop can go backward, in subspace it is believed to be time zero, with no passing at all, and on the photonic level time is chaotic. I NEVER said our universe did not begin or end, UNIVERSES are constantly being born and die, you dont think our universe is the only on do you?

No beginning, no end, is a circle or a figure 8, or any line that has no point A or point B, so taking away the linear aspect of time it can only be a loop? it cant be non linear and non looped at the same time can it??

 

It can only be a loop in a closed minded obsever who fails to fathom the concept of total limitless. WE as people NEED bounderies. When there are none, we call it a loop, thus creating limits and bounderies.

 

 

It seems easy to say there is no beginning or no end but then you need to express the reality of what we are left with, and that is where the shit gets thick because you have to get into dimensions and quantam physics and even the experts are divided, not one thing seems to be for certain in this life anymore....

 

I am not about to claim I KNOW these things as fact, my first post to you I not only said it was theory, but also encouraged you to think of things as theories and to be a walking question mark.

 

Don't get all mad, don't like what I said? Fine, that's your right to have an opinion, but dont tell me I am trying to form some justification for athiesm, because I have much more personal reasons for not beliving in the great tooth fairy then science theory.

 

Just seems to me that anyone who "really" thinks deep about the cosmos, can only conclude there is no god. Yes it is deep stuff. But its not limited by loopage or barriers either, only WE are.

 

 

Huh??? SWIM, I went out of my way to say I wasnt mad or being defensive, you're awfully agitated already and that isnt necessary.

 

I agreed with you on so many points and on the things I didnt understand I posed the alternatives I saw as questions to you, so you answer back like I have stated them as fact??? Thats not fair, I didnt claim to KNOW anything for certain, I was asking you, not telling you.

 

Here I am doing exactly what you told me to do, be a walking question mark, I pose all these questions and get treated like this for it?

 

You've proved your point, once a person knows a ton about the universe(s) then they will see that there is no God.

 

I'm fine and dandy with not being agreed with, agreed with what I dont know because I never claimed to "know" anything.....

 

I am fine with that, like I said, I will keep learning what I can. I am not mad even now, I feel a little disturbed because I didnt expect to be treated like an idiot, I will be alright though....damn

[SWIM]

Huh??? SWIM, I went out of my way to say I wasnt mad or being defensive, you're awfully agitated already and that isnt necessary.

 

I agreed with you on so many points and on the things I didnt understand I posed the alternatives I saw as questions to you, so you answer back like I have stated them as fact??? Thats not fair, I didnt claim to KNOW anything for certain, I was asking you, not telling you.

 

Here I am doing exactly what you told me to do, be a walking question mark, I pose all these questions and get treated like this for it?

 

You've proved your point, once a person knows a ton about the universe(s) then they will see that there is no God.

 

I'm fine and dandy with not being agreed with, agreed with what I dont know because I never claimed to "know" anything.....

 

I am fine with that, like I said, I will keep learning what I can. I am not mad even now, I feel a little disturbed because I didnt expect to be treated like an idiot, I will be alright though....damn

 

Ahh ok, took it wrong I suppose. Sorry, those were intelligent responses, don't mean to come across as a dick, kinda miffed me when you said I was using science to justify my atheism.

 

It's all good, no worries.

 

My nature to be a bit aggressive, sorry it was not justified here, my bad.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

thats ok,

 

I didnt mean you were justifying your atheism, I meant that by necessity these things have to fit, we all do that...its human...I just meant that you wouldnt contradict yourself with your beliefs about one thing and then another......cuz then youd be a Xtian

 

=)

 

No worries here

[Ouroboros]

As far as I know time is a changing and tangible reality that does not ontologically necessitate having existed forever in infinity.

Also remember that time isn't absolute, but relative. There isn't "one" time to which we all belong to. Every particle in me, and in you, and in the coffee cup next to me, has its own bubble of time. Time is only a measurement on "process or matter within space." There's no clock somewhere to which the universe is linked. And even more, at the quantum level, space, matter, and time breaks down. Quantum events can be affected by future events for instance, which totally contradicts our normal understanding of our world. Just as there could be argued for a "first cause" (big bang) of the universe, there could exist a "last cause" (big crunch) which is affected is backwards in time (our time) through the hidden chains of dependencies (or spooky actions, entanglement, etc) --forwards and backwards--in the fabric of space and time.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

As far as I know time is a changing and tangible reality that does not ontologically necessitate having existed forever in infinity.

Also remember that time isn't absolute, but relative. There isn't "one" time to which we all belong to. Every particle in me, and in you, and in the coffee cup next to me, has its own bubble of time. Time is only a measurement on "process or matter within space." There's no clock somewhere to which the universe is linked. And even more, at the quantum level, space, matter, and time breaks down. Quantum events can be affected by future events for instance, which totally contradicts our normal understanding of our world. Just as there could be argued for a "first cause" (big bang) of the universe, there could exist a "last cause" (big crunch) which is affected is backwards in time (our time) through the hidden chains of dependencies (or spooky actions, entanglement, etc) --forwards and backwards--in the fabric of space and time.

 

Exactly, thats why I pointed out that time "changes" and its tangible, not some ABSOLUTE....or were you just 'guiding' me down my own road ? heh

 

I dont think many people who havent tried to look into the truth of the universe would even know that time is relative, I am just no expert is all.

 

Big Crunch?? You scare me sir. My worldview is shattered as it is.

 

[Ouroboros]

Big Crunch?? You scare me sir. My worldview is shattered as it is.

Only in a few bazillions years, so no worries.

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Big Crunch?? You scare me sir. My worldview is shattered as it is.

Only in a few bazillions years, so no worries.

 

 

I remember my first Existential crisis...I was about 6 or so and my dad was explaining the stages of stars and how our sun would finally dwindle and die.....I got so scared and he said dont worry...it wont be for millions and millions of years.

 

I remember still feeling scared about it.

 

I had never thought of death or entropy of any kind until then, I hadnt even had a family member pass away while i was alive then, nor an animal.

[RIPw4]

Hey Piracy. I havent posted in a LONG LONG TIME but I thought I woudl reply to your thread. I cant remember the guys name and im not sure if he is even on here still but he was buddhist maybe? He lived in Japan I think, well maybe he was just married to a japanese woman...anyways.. He was in the same boat you are. His son or nephew or some boy in his family began talking about a relative who had died before the child was born giving specific facts about the relative. Perhaps he could shed some light onyour situation. Of course another member will hopefully jump in and know who I am talking about.

Its always a real jolt to have a realization that goes against your every fiber.

I recently realized that I dont really believe in any "God". It scares the shit out of me too. when I deconverted years ago I held on to the belief that there is a God just not Jesus..Now..well.. I call myself and agnonstic because I feel its a safe place to be..

who know.

But good luck with your realization.

[Brother Jeff]

Hey RIP, you are remembering Jun. He hasn't posted here in a long time.

 

I don't know if reincarnation is true or not for sure, but I have my reasons for suspecting that it is. When I was very young, my sister and I used to speak to each other in a foreign language that we understood but that my parents didn't. I also knew how to play the guitar up to about age seven.

 

I think there is an afterlife of some sort, but what the nature of it is I don't know. I do know that shortly before my grandmother died in 2002 she visited my uncle late one night in spirit. I guess it was her way of saying goodbye because she knew her time was coming soon. She has visited me at least once since she died. I didn't see her or anything like that, but I did sense her presence very strongly.

 

This site has a lot of great information on the subject of reincarnation:

 

http://www.reincarnationforum.com

 

I also recommend Carol Bowman's books. You can do a search for them at Amazon.com.

 

Hope that helps. Glory!

[Malcolm Hutton]

 

 

Please, tell me your stories, I have something to be fascinated in now!! It feels good.

 

Ok, but there has been so much. I think I have always been 'aware', yet only two flash backs to some former memory.

 

About twenty years ago events led me to have a reading - 1988, then another in 1997, and a third last year after my late wife Ede had just pased away.

She yelled at me one night, asking, "Malcolm Can you hear me". Gave me quite a fright as I awoke and the room was dark and empty. I thought my daughter had come into the room and was trying to wake me up. Fiona had the same experience the following night, but couldn't make out the words. So next day I went into Melbourne to the VSU, where I had never been before. I purposely did not go to Tanya, since she knew too much about me. The VSU only asked my first name. After only ten minutes the medium asked, "And Who is Ede?" He went on to say that she was more often called 'Ede' or 'Eadie' - and there was a reason for this, which he couldn't possibly have known. The rest of the message was sufficient confimation that it was Ede.

 

I have had many similar experiences, yet it always gives a big WOW feeling when you receive a definite communication that you and only you know to be real.

 

I have been getting the number '33' for many years, but only noticed it in 1997 which is why I had a second reading. I have had two today - 7.33am and 10.33am. There are countless others experiencing the same or another number such as 11.11 (Uri Geller has a page on 11.11). My own web page on it is http://home.austarnet.com.au./calum/33.html. One or two others get '17'. When half asleep in the early hours and running this thought through the mind I have been answered with 'Think Binary'. I did and then realised that binary for 3 is 11, so 33 coud be expressed as 11.11 - all positve and no negative. 7 in binary is 111, so again - 1.111 and all positive. It usually happens with myself when I have just completed something, letter, or arrived home or shops after some time driving. It feels a bit like a pat on the back.

 

It will happen to anyone with an open mind. Just watch out for a double number.

 

Many people will know about the English lady Jenny Cockell who wrote "Yesterdays Children". Tv documentaries have told her story, and it has been turned into a feature film with Jane Seymour, except that she is portrayed as American instead of English.

 

Carol Bowman has become the authority on Children's Past Lives.

 

The best Reincarnation documentary was based on Peter Ramster's book "In Search of Past lives". You can now watch it on Youtube -

It is in 11 parts and you do need to watch the whole lot to get a good understanding. The story of Gwen MacPherson who was Rose MacDonald two centuries ago is a must. There is no way that a Sydney woman who had never left her city could have known so much about the life of a woman on the other side of the word who had been dead for 2 centuries. How did she remember a Somerst dialect word 'Tallet' that is no longer in common use? How could she posibly have been able to draw while still in Sydney, the lines on a flagstone in Somerset, that had been covered in dirt and hen muck for more than a hundred years, and make an exact copy of those lines. It is just impossible and the only answer has to be either reincarnation or some access to some kind of universal records. Only one of the four women whose memories were checked locally in Europe failed to match the facts. But judge for yourself.

[Tabula Rasa]

I'm not so certain how I feel about re-incarnation. I've had some very realistic dreams that involved my current self but doing something completely different than what my life is like. Long recurring dreams but where I was doing different things in the same world that have made me wonder if my dreams were real and my waking life was a dream.

 

 

 

On a more humorous and less spooky note, I've joked that if re-incarnation is real, I was probably a Tyrannasaurus in my first life. Reason being, I've got a big head, big mouth, long torso, short arms, tiny hands, big ass, huge legs and huge feet.(I've got size 11 feet and seven inch hands, how does that work?) Basically, I've got the same proportions as a predatory saurian, so I have to wonder sometimes.