Does the Bible record Satan ever killing anyone?

[necrosmith]

What about Satan?

 

I have to believe if he did kill anyone, then it was far less than God who wiped out the entire world but 1 family at one point.

 

Of the two in the Christian mythology, I think I like my odds with Satan better!

[quicksand]

Um, didn't Old Scratch wax-out Job's childern in a wager between himself and his gambling partner God?

 

Not quite a mass-murder as Himself of course, perhaps this is why we are to abhor Satan - can't kill enough to please the bracket he has to compete in.

[Checkmate]

Um, didn't Old Scratch wax-out Job's childern in a wager between himself and his gambling partner God?

 

Not quite a mass-murder as Himself of course, perhaps this is why we are to abhor Satan - can't kill enough to please the bracket he has to compete in.

 

 

Ah, yes, but didn't "God" give his divine sanction for "Satan" to act? "Satan" could do NOTHING without the "Lord's" permission. In fact this whole "bet" is instigated by "God".

 

What a DICK!

[quicksand]

Ah, yes, but didn't "God" give his divine sanction for "Satan" to act?  "Satan" could do NOTHING without the "Lord's" permission.  In fact this whole "bet" is instigated by "God". 

 

What a DICK!

Oh yeah, that's right.

 

I guess the only thing we can say for now about Mr D.E Vil is that he is perhaps rather stupid - giving God's ability to see the future having created it.

 

Never would have taken the bet - fixed outcome.

[Ouroboros]

What about Satan?

 

I have to believe if he did kill anyone, then it was far less than God who wiped out the entire world but 1 family at one point.

 

Of the two in the Christian mythology, I think I like my odds with Satan better!

Interesting! I never thought of it that way... super kewl...

 

The only bad things the Devil did was to trick Adam and Eve to eat from the wrong tree, and not even lie about it, and at a later stage make people be born in the wrong country so God had an excuse to kill them, or the devil just would make people pray to the wrong wooden carved symbol... so what's the big evil plan that he supposedly has? To kill us by tickling us to death? While God simply drops a big anvil on our heads!

[necrosmith]

Oh yeah, that's right.

 

I guess the only thing we can say for now about Mr D.E  Vil is that he is perhaps rather stupid - giving God's ability to see the future having created it.

 

Never would have taken the bet - fixed outcome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know. Is anyone really *that* stupid?

 

I wonder if Satan saw some sort of flaw in God that lead him to believe he should rebel?

 

Maybe like God's true nature? How God could hide the knowledge of good and evil from people then punish them for doing something "evil"? And then proceeding to murder millions of people throughout history?

 

Perhaps it is Satan who is our true savior?

[sonofspong]

I don't know. Is anyone really *that* stupid?

 

I wonder if Satan saw some sort of flaw in God that lead him to believe he should rebel?

 

Maybe like God's true nature? How God could hide the knowledge of good and evil from people then punish them for doing something "evil"? And then proceeding to murder millions of people throughout history?

 

Perhaps it is Satan who is our true savior?

 

 

Actually, you'd make a good secular Satanist.

 

This notion is the foundation of the belief's of certain Satanist secs; the more secular ones, to be precise. While some Satanist to actually worship the devil, other Satanist are actually Athiest who follow the "ideal" or symbolism behind Satan's rebellion from higher authority. They view Satan as a heroic figure of sorts, who stood up to an oppressive diety. However, they do not believe Satan really exist.

 

And though I am not a Satanist, I can see some logic in that belief.

[Yaoi Huntress Earth]

Perhaps it is Satan who is our true savior?

 

Or in a funny kind of way, Hell is true heaven because Satan feels sorry for us. Maybe all that fire is really just the pyrotechnics while Heaven is more hellish with it's subjects becoming nothing more than mindless, worshiping drones.

[SilentLoner]

What about Satan?

 

I have to believe if he did kill anyone, then it was far less than God who wiped out the entire world but 1 family at one point.

 

 

Oh boy...I once asked a similar question in sunday school. The look on my teacher's face was priceless . She froze for at least half a minute then slammed her bible hard on my desk and sent me to the corner for the entire morning while telling the class how "filthy" that question was.

[necrosmith]

LOL

[dead_hobbit]

Actually, yes.

 

But only if you dig into the original language(s) of the bible.

 

In Hebrew, "Satan" is a word that basically means "adversary". It's not a title reserved excuslively for one guy, but can be applied to anyone. If you're pissing me off and accusing me of crazy things, then you are a "satan" to me.

 

In one instance, the word "Satan" is applied to God.

[dead_hobbit]

Correction, I believe there is more than one instance.

 

 

Instead of digging up the stuff myself, I'm going to be lazy and C&P from a Christian website:

 

In the Old Testament satan is sometimes used to describe God Himself! 1 Chronicles 21: 1-14 and 2 Samuel 24:1-15 both describe the same events: David taking a census in Israel and the subsequent punishment. Yet in 1 Chronicles it is satan who provokes David to take the Census - in 2 Samuel it is God. The explanation is quite simple: God was an adversary - a satan - to David.

[RedPillAddict]

I think the "original" meaning before the Christians took it and twisted it around was that God and Satan were different parts of man or woman. HEaven and Hell were what we created here on earth, etc.

[dead_hobbit]

I think the "original" meaning before the Christians took it and twisted it around was that God and Satan were different parts of man or woman. HEaven and Hell were what we created here on earth, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you being serious, or are you joking?

 

If the former, I'd be extremely interested in any evidence you have for this.

[dead_hobbit]

I had a theory about the book of Job a year ago, but I never looked into it much.

 

When school starts up again, I'll re-read the book and see if my theory holds any grounds in the hebrew.

 

Basically, my theory is that the story of Job invovled less of the supernatural than we are led to believe by sectarians.

 

Wow, that is an interesting view.   I always thought that it was nice big fat contradiction, in the census issue. But what about JOB then?  Did the myth writers have BibleGod making a deal with himself?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dead_hobbit]

Thanks dead_hobbit, learning all these different theories is good for the mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My wording was a bit vague. I wasn't trying to imply that supernatural things exist. (They might, or they might not)

 

What I mean is that the theory I had last year sometime was that the book of Job - as it is written in the bible - isn't like... uh, how do I word this... it's not so..

 

OK, I don't know how to word it. I guess I'd better see about finding the Tanakh in my closet so I can see if what I was thinking was right or wrong...

[SpaceMonk]

But you have to wonder, perhaps they are space overlords, trying to get humans to kill each other off.

I was watching the DVD of the movie “The Ninth Gate”, and in the special features was this quote which I had to copy:

 

“Evil personified appears at first sight repulsive. But the more we study the personality of the Devil, the more fascinating it becomes.

The Devil is the rebel of the cosmos, the independent in the empire of a tyrant; he is the individualising tendency, the craving for originality, which bodily upsets the ordinances of God that enforce a definite kind of conduct…”

- Paul Carus, The History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil (1900)

 

To me the 'Devil' is just a freedom fighter.

God doesn't like those.

[dead_hobbit]

You worded just fine and I didn't take it all to mean that supernatural things exist.  Still like to hear your theory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have tommorrow (err... today) off of work so I'll start reading the book of Job sometime and begin checking my theory.

[diggin]

What about Satan?

 

I have to believe if he did kill anyone, then it was far less than God who wiped out the entire world but 1 family at one point.

 

Of the two in the Christian mythology, I think I like my odds with Satan better!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As I understand the Bible, God is not a murderer, but a Judge. As judge, he sentenced one man to death (not hell) for disobedience. Since then, all men have been dead from a legal perspective, and 9/10 dead from a practical perspective. Score so far -- God 1, Satan 0. (the man chose to disobey God and was not deceived by Satan).

 

The various times God has judged folks for this or that sin (such as the sex and violence at the flood, and some Jews, some non-Jews in the OT), has been to set an example and teach lessons for the comparatively few he is dealing with among mankind for the last several thousand years. But all of them were already dead from a judicial perspective already -- like prisoners on death row. He just moved their execution up a bit.

 

God provided an exchange to release ALL people from that first judicial sentence. Satan would have killed Jesus if he could have, but Jesus chose to lay down his life voluntarily as a sacrifice. So the score remains, God 1, Satan 0. Satan still had not managed to actually kill anyone.

 

When the right time comes, ALL people will indeed be released and given a full opportunity for life.

 

While they are being given a contrasting experience with how great things can be when God's ways are followed, Satan will be unable to trick or lie or kill.

Then, Satan will be allowed to try and trick folks one more time.

 

At that time, God will again judge those who choose to disobey. Out of the billions of humanity, it'll probably be a few fractions of a percent at least. But most will have learned their lessons and will then live forever. Score: God 20 Billion made alive, 20 million executed for good, Satan a big zero in both categories. No one made alive, no one killed because of him. All people who die in the end, will die exclusively because of their own decisions, with full light and opportunity to do otherwise.

 

And then God will kill Satan.

 

God will win every battle and every argument in the end. Fortunately, nice guys always will. And Satan will lose all of his battles and have every lie exposed.

 

If I were you I'd put my money on God but you've got plenty of time to watch the race some more before you have to place your bet. Not just till the end of your "life" but also at least a century, if not a millennium when you wake up again. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

By the way, I agree with your signature line.

[Lunar Shadow]

As I understand the Bible, God is not a murderer, but a Judge. As judge, he sentenced one man to death (not hell) for disobedience. Since then, all men have been dead from a legal perspective, and 9/10 dead from a practical perspective. Score so far -- God 1, Satan 0. (the man chose to disobey God and was not deceived by Satan).

 

 

But if that is the case Diggin then God must be the most inconsistent Judge known to man. I mean he'll kill one man for doing something “wrong” then he will never kill anyone else for the same “crime” again. ~OR~ He'll kill thousands for doing something “wrong” then never kill anyone else for the same “crime” again... there is no justice in inconstancy NONE.

[All Gods Fail]

The various times God has judged folks for this or that sin (such as the sex and violence at the flood, and some Jews, some non-Jews in the OT), has been to set an example and teach lessons for the comparatively few he is dealing with among mankind for the last several thousand years. But all of them were already dead from a judicial perspective already -- like prisoners on death row. He just moved their execution up a bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So when god killed the ENTIRE WORLD in the flood, he was just killing 'dead' people as an example for...I guess Noah?

 

God seems pretty kill-happy for a perfect being. Satan may be a liar, but he didn't destroy the whole bloody world. You're not really making satan seem as bad as jehovah, you know.

 

Also, you inadvertently display the whole reason why xtianity is an immoral religion. When you dehumanize sinners as 'already dead', what's the big deal about oppressing, torturing, and executing them? I mean, if putting them in a 'rehabilitation center' to torture them gets a few into accepting christ, then you've done good, right? God's will be done.

[Checkmate]

.................

God seems pretty kill-happy for a perfect being. Satan may be a liar, but he didn't destroy the whole bloody world. You're not really making satan seem as bad as jehovah, you know.

................

Not picking on YOU, AGF, BUT...WHERE does the bible PROVE that "Satan" is a liar? I know that some scriptures ACCUSE him of being a liar and father of lies, but where has it been DEMONSTRATED that "Satan" lied to anyone?

 

I can only think of three times, maybe four if you include "the serpent", where "Satan" is supposed to have interacted with anyone. And at no time was he guilty of LYING.

 

Let's look at where "Satan" is credited with "speaking" and see what develops.

 

1. The Garden of Eden. The serpent (Satan?) tells Eve that "You shall not surely die. God knows that when you eat of the fruit, your eyes shall be open, and you shall be like God knowing good and evil." Didn't this happen? The words came true. So "Satan" didn't lie.

 

2. The torment and testing of Job. Satan didn't lie at all. He merely accused God of playing favorites, and then he accused Job of being a suck up. No lies here, just stating his opinion.

 

3. Satan once contended with the angels over the body of Joshua. No indication of "lying" written here.

 

4. And finally, the infamous showdown with "Jesus" in the wilderness. Again, no LIES. Just temptations. No deals were struck that the devil reneged upon.

 

I don't know of any other "biblical" accounts attributed to "Satan". So if he's shown to be a LIAR, I'd like for someone to show it to me. (Not that it makes any REAL difference, since it is ALL a fairy tale. But just like any good fiction, the story should make sense!)

[All Gods Fail]

Not picking on YOU, AGF, BUT...WHERE does the bible PROVE that "Satan" is a liar?  I know that some scriptures ACCUSE him of being a liar and father of lies, but where has it been DEMONSTRATED that "Satan" lied to anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oooh, you are too picking on me! :angry:

 

Yeah, I'm getting hip to that fact. I was just kind of using the standard rhetoric back at him, ie: "So Satan's the 'father of lies'? At least he didn't try to destroy the world."

 

Who knew ol' Scratch has been wronged by xtians as well?

[MQTA]

Not picking on YOU, AGF, BUT...WHERE does the bible PROVE that "Satan" is a liar?  I know that some scriptures ACCUSE him of being a liar and father of lies, but where has it been DEMONSTRATED that "Satan" lied to anyone?

 

I can only think of three times, maybe four if you include "the serpent", where "Satan" is supposed to have interacted with anyone.  And at no time was he guilty of LYING.

 

Let's look at where "Satan" is credited with "speaking" and see what develops.

 

1.  The Garden of Eden.  The serpent (Satan?) tells Eve that "You shall not surely die.  God knows that when you eat of the fruit, your eyes shall be open, and you shall be like God knowing good and evil."  Didn't this happen?  The words came true.  So "Satan" didn't lie.

 

2.  The torment and testing of Job.  Satan didn't lie at all.  He merely accused God of playing favorites, and then he accused Job of being a suck up.  No lies here, just stating his opinion.

 

3.  Satan once contended with the angels over the body of Joshua.  No indication of "lying" written here.

 

4.  And finally, the infamous showdown with "Jesus" in the wilderness.  Again, no LIES.  Just temptations.  No deals were struck that the devil reneged upon.

 

I don't know of any other "biblical" accounts attributed to "Satan".  So if he's shown to be a LIAR, I'd like for someone to show it to me.  (Not that it makes any REAL difference, since it is ALL a fairy tale.  But just like any good fiction, the story should make sense!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I think he lied to Paul when he blinded him and told him he was Jesus!

[Ouroboros]

There's many thing in the Bible that's not true, and the Bible is inspired by God, shouldn't we consider God to be a liar instead?

Especially when there's no proof that Satan is a liar, but the Bible is full of proof that God is liar!