Faith Fails

[Naiya]

It's just the placebo effect over and over...when your problem was never tangible in the first place, it's easy to trick yourself into thinking it's gone (especially when it was made up, i.e., you thought you were cursed).

 

Then when it IS tangible (like the amputee), they get angry at you for not pretending. It's like WTH...why am I getting blindsided by this every time? Why is it that every fucking time someone goes "You just didn't have enough faith" I want to punch them in the face and say "If you'd had more faith, God would have stopped me."

 

I can't help but feel SO angry. I didn't stop believing in God. God left me alone. God, for some reason, can't or won't help me, no matter how much I cry, or repent, or pray, or hold faith in him. God could have easily saved me from what is either something paranormal or some kind of horrible delusion my stupid mind is afflicted with. It shouldn't be THAT hard. It's not like I'm asking for my limb to grow back.

 

So yeah. I'm pretty much done with Christianity. I tried it, I even carried a torch for it for so long despite the fact that all it ever did was make me feel worthless.

[Jedah]

You sound a lot like your suffering from typical teen angst to be honest.

[Naiya]

Thank you for your condescending reply. I'm 23 by the way.

 

Well, so much for this place being a "safe zone" What a joke.

[Jedah]

Well, what did you want to hear exactly ?

 

You seem to have figured the basics out and gone through a lot of bullshit. Your right, faith fails. But not so much because its a mindfuck does it fail, it fails because its a double standard. By accepting one, you ultimately must reject all others since they all claim to be the truth...well...most of them anyways.

 

On the other hand you make a lot of assumptions about people's intentions which are simply not true.

 

I'll wait and see what other may have to say. Perhaps it is just because I am used to readingl posts like this back when I used to lurk Gaia that it makes me see the writing style as immature, but I could be wrong.

[Naiya]

They aren't assumptions...that's really the way people have treated me. Even my own friends who are pagan treat me like that. They find a way to make things I don't have control over my fault. That isn't an assumption, that's a fact based on people's actions. I'm sorry if I was being too broad, but that's just been my experience. I've yet to find people who haven't reacted in that way.

 

I was hoping to hear something like "here's how to deal with the anger and guilt you feel because of religious brainwashing." Or I dunno...maybe something encouraging or supportive...since I thought that was the point of this subforum. Am I wrong to want that?

 

And by the way, but it's a bit hypocritical for you to call my writing style immature when you don't even know the difference between "your" and "you're." "You're" is a contraction of "you are." "Your" is possessive.

[Jedah]

And by the way, but it's a bit hypocritical for you to call my writing style immature when you don't even know the difference between "your" and "you're." "You're" is a contraction of "you are." "Your" is possessive.

 

So ? Does my grammar mistake caused by not proofreading change anything about you ?

 

I have a pretty good idea why people seem to be saying its your fault...

 

One quick question: are you a guy or a girl ? Because if you are a girl then I best leave this to the women on this forum.

[Naiya]

Dude, if you are going to bring up the issue of how I write and make that the reason you judged the validity of my feelings and experiences, then yes, I will point out that your writing is no better.

 

Seriously, what do you hope to accomplish by going to a person who is hurting and hurling the same BS that led them into years of abusive cult-like groups at them?

 

I'm sorry if you were offended by the OP in some way or that my feelings are not valid to you, or whatever. I was under the impression that this was a forum for support for emotionally vulnerable people who are going through the deconversion process and are in need of support.

[Naiya]

I'm a woman.

[Jedah]

One more thing:

 

about the OBE / spiritual thing. What do you believe it is ? Do you believe they are real OBE's ( as in you believe that your "soul" is literally projecting elsewhere and that this event is supernatural ) as well as this man you seem to talk to...do you believe he is just a figment of your imagination or something else ? Depending on whether you think this is all in your head or not can change the situation completely.

[Naiya]

One more thing:

 

about the OBE / spiritual thing. What do you believe it is ? Do you believe they are real OBE's ( as in you believe that your "soul" is literally projecting elsewhere and that this event is supernatural ) as well as this man you seem to talk to...do you believe he is just a figment of your imagination or something else ? Depending on whether you think this is all in your head or not can change the situation completely.

 

I've believed both things at different times in my life, and come to the conclusion that my beliefs have not been able to change anything. I don't believe anything either way at this point. It is what it is. I can't pretend it doesn't happen because it does. I can't say I know what's going on because I don't. Please for the love of God, PLEASE don't launch into the "if you realize it's in your head and think the right way about it, everything will be fine." That was how I started and it only made things worse.

[Jedah]

Have you ever tried to fight back ?

[Naiya]

Yes, I have fought back hundreds of times. Trust me, if I've had years to think about it. Most things you can think up in a few minutes I can almost guarantee I've tried before.

 

I'm not interested in fixing my situation regarding that. It is just the main reason I stopped believing in God. I just want to stop the cycle of believing that something will work when it sets me up for failure. It's an abusive and vicious cycle, one that always gets me involved with psychopaths who promise that their ever-so-special way of doing things will help me.

 

At some point I'll go to a trained therapist but I am never, ever listening to any person on the internet when it comes to the type of advice that should only come from a therapist. Right now I'm interested in stepping away from Christianity, God, and blame.

[.god]

hey naiya

 

that sounds like some serious craziness you ve been thru. i'm not a doctor but have you considered a dissociative disorder or multi-personality disorder? im guessinh you probably have considering you read the dsmv iv. but everything you have mentioned sounds very dissociative to me. such disordrs are due to brain chemical imbalances and neurotransmitters. definitely not something you would be able to "think" your way out of. its simply how your brain has been wired. no doubt sucky but definitely seek professional help when you are able. maybe a neurologist.

 

no religions or superstitions will get to the core or solve the root of your problems. your best bet may be brain scans, psychiatric evaluations and prescription medications to start balancing out your system.

 

good luck!

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Naiya,

 

Welcome to the site. it IS a place you can come to for support in your issues with christianity, cults and "god".

 

I've been through many experiences that involve 'beings', OBEs and things of the 'spooky' nature.

 

I don't know what the hell to label these beings as, but I know that there are some consistencies that go beyond normal explanation, it's very difficult to file it all away as mental disorders or strange chemical/biological anomalies. At present I have some difficult psychological problems I am going through but these experiences have spanned my entire existence on this planet since I can remember, I can remember at least as far back as 3 and being visited by the same being on numerous occasions. So it has happened long before many of my troubles began and has persisted no matter what my psychological state.

 

I have also had OBEs, by accident and on purpose. There are only a few people in the world that believe this actually happened and is possible, I am told, most of the time that it is just my mind playing tricks on me.

 

The possibility that there are just strange damned things happening in this world are simply not accepted by many people, especially ex-religious. But that is neither here nor there, when something is happening to you, in most cases you alone are the best to judge what is happening and it sounds like you've gone to great lengths to discern for yourself what the hell is happening to you.

 

It doesnt sound like you are 'crazy', thats for sure, it sounds like you have been terrorized and that has created some problems for you, of course, why wouldnt it?

 

You have the opportunity to continue trying to discern these phenomena and that is a good thing.

 

You also have the opportunity to sort through your feelings concerning god and christianity here.

 

Try making some threads concerning both, and deal with each one separately, the religious/spiritual problems on the one hand and these visitations and OBEs on the other. This way you can attract different people to each area and work through them more efficiently.

 

I dont see any problem with what you wrote, was that your first post here?? You came angry, frustrated, upset and confused, as did almost all of us,many of us still are all those things and more, so dont be discouraged.

 

Take this reply as an encouragement to continue to express your feelings and opinions. They are truly welcomed here.

 

Good luck and I hope to read more about your experiences. Private Message me if you want, thats another luxury of the site, just click above my name there on the left and Send Message. I would like to hear more about the strange visitor and the OBEs myself, if thats what you would like to talk about.

 

Take care.

 

Nikos

[ShackledNoMore]

Let me start by saying I am not qualified to give you a really good answer--this whole thing is quite outside my expertise, but I will do my best to provide my take and comments:

 

First off, I don't know why atheists would deem this "your fault." Clearly you've done everything in your power to willfully take control. The thing is, I think there are times we simply cannot take control by an act of our own volition, and this appears to be such a case. (xians accusing you of being demon possessed, or of the devil, on the other hand, I can understand, but that explanation, quite frankly, is a useless pile of crap.)

 

Your description got so real, with doctors offices, martial art classes, etc., that I began to have a little trouble following what was a (lucid) dream, what was an OBE, and what was an ordinary waking experience. Except for your depression, detachment, anxiety, etc., is this confined to your dreams and your OBEs? Are you able to control whether you have an OBE or not, or do they start involuntarily? If you can keep from having an OBE, it might be a good idea not to start having one to begin with.

 

It sounds to me that this is some sort of disorder (that I am not qualified to diagnose), perhaps some sort of dissociative disorder, or perhaps some flavor of psychosis or schizophrenia? (I think such conditions are not confined to one's dreams however and I could be missing the mark--again I am no expert--but my point is that I expect there is some kind of natural, and hopefully discoverable and treatable cause for all this.)

 

I know that not having insurance is a logistic obstacle, but I'm thinking that the next step is to try to get to the bottom of this with a qualified and competent professional, maybe a therapist, but I'm thinking more likely a doctor. Perhaps you will find this is a treatable neurological disorder, I don't know. I think the doctor you referred to in your OP was a dream doctor, but either way, you'd probably need a specialist that can get to the root of your problem rather than just brushing it off.

 

One other thing, it's none of my business of course, and I don't know whether you use any drugs like alcohol or marijuana, but if you do, it might be prudent to avoid them under these circumstances, at least while you're dealing with this. I think perhaps they may exacerbate things, depending on what's going on.

 

You've tried willing it away, and that didn't work. Lack of insurance notwithstanding, if there's any way you can manage to arrange a consultation with the right person, I think that's really the next step. Best of luck.

[Guest kcdad]

First off, I don't know why atheists would deem this "your fault."

 

Fault is not the right concept to be embracing here. What is, is. There are visions, hallucinations if you will, and auditions as well apparently. (You do hear things as well as see them and feel them?)

 

All vision is created in the brain. Certainly the light source may come from the environment, but we know from dreams that what we experience as vision is created in the brain. In the same was as our sense of smell contributes to the understanding of how things taste on our tongue, so too, movement, sound, hormones and emotional responses contribute to the understanding of vision in our brain.

 

So I do not suggest that you are sick or diseased or anything like that. Your brain is obviously processing information differently than most people. Perhaps more efficiently and more accurately or ... not. That is not for me to say without first hand knowledge or experience.

 

So here is my advice...if you have a doctor, have him recommend a neurologist. Rule out any organic problem.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I haven't a clue what is happening to you, but you are still welcome to vent here (and you are right - disparaging comments are a violation of this particular forum's guidelines). I wish I had a solution to what you are going through.

Your experiences do sound somewhat similar to some others on a reincarnation forum I have been reading recently (www.reincarnationforum.com). Some people apparently have quite vivid nasty experiences (being eaten by dogs, murder, etc) that they can't get out of their heads.

 

Your "being" sounds very abusive. Does it look human?

[Naiya]

hey naiya

 

that sounds like some serious craziness you ve been thru. i'm not a doctor but have you considered a dissociative disorder or multi-personality disorder?

good luck!

 

 

I've done a lot of research, and it seems that people prone to dissociation report having more OBEs than people who don't have dissociative qualities. So yes, there is some dissociation. But it is usually tied to anxiety, so it may just be a part of that. I'm not entirely sure on that point, though.

 

I know I don't have multiple personality disorder, though, because I never have "missing time" whenever I'm awake. Quite the opposite--I am "aware" almost 24 hours a day. I only lose consciousness for about the first 4-6 hours of sleep. Consciousness throughout the sleep cycle seems to be a natural evolution of advanced lucid dreaming, but that's more parapsychology than psychology.

 

 

Try making some threads concerning both, and deal with each one separately, the religious/spiritual problems on the one hand and these visitations and OBEs on the other. This way you can attract different people to each area and work through them more efficiently.

 

Thank you. That's good advice.

 

 

Let me start by saying I am not qualified to give you a really good answer--this whole thing is quite outside my expertise, but I will do my best to provide my take and comments:

 

First off, I don't know why atheists would deem this "your fault." Clearly you've done everything in your power to willfully take control. The thing is, I think there are times we simply cannot take control by an act of our own volition, and this appears to be such a case. (xians accusing you of being demon possessed, or of the devil, on the other hand, I can understand, but that explanation, quite frankly, is a useless pile of crap.)

 

Your description got so real, with doctors offices, martial art classes, etc., that I began to have a little trouble following what was a (lucid) dream, what was an OBE, and what was an ordinary waking experience. Except for your depression, detachment, anxiety, etc., is this confined to your dreams and your OBEs? Are you able to control whether you have an OBE or not, or do they start involuntarily? If you can keep from having an OBE, it might be a good idea not to start having one to begin with.

 

It sounds to me that this is some sort of disorder (that I am not qualified to diagnose), perhaps some sort of dissociative disorder, or perhaps some flavor of psychosis or schizophrenia? (I think such conditions are not confined to one's dreams however and I could be missing the mark--again I am no expert--but my point is that I expect there is some kind of natural, and hopefully discoverable and treatable cause for all this.)

 

Generally, with nonbelievers, they assume it is my fault because if I'm lucid in a dream, I should be able to control it if I just think about it the right way or have more willpower or something.

 

Yes, I was at a real doctor's office. Ditto on the martial arts class. It still boggles my mind that the doctor was clueless and the martial arts master knew what was going on (to be fair he was also a chiroprator but you'd think a doctor would know more).

 

Everything concerned the "spirit" is limited to OBEs/dreams/whatever you want to call them. I have a relative who had schizophrenia, however, that wouldn't really apply to me since you need to actually see or hear things in the physical waking world that are not real for it to really be schizophrenia. I do sometimes fear that it will come to that someday, though. I was definitely qualified as delusional for a long time, but that was mostly because of the stupid crazy religious people I got caught up with when I was vulnerable, and as soon as the bubble burst I'd realize it was all made up BS.

 

 

First off, I don't know why atheists would deem this "your fault."

 

Fault is not the right concept to be embracing here. What is, is. There are visions, hallucinations if you will, and auditions as well apparently. (You do hear things as well as see them and feel them?)

 

 

I don't see nor hear things whilst awake, no. But also not ruling out chemical imbalances and that sort of thing.

 

 

Your "being" sounds very abusive. Does it look human?

 

 

Thanks for the link, I will check it out. I'm really on the fence about reincarnation, right now I just sort of think, well, I can't know for sure what's a real memory and what's a false memory (especially when it comes to a dream because even lucid you run into false memories), and if reincarnation is what happens, nothing I can do will stop it so I may as well enjoy my life and not worry about death.

 

Yes, he looks human. He does not look like anyone I've met before in my waking life.

 

 

Naiya,

 

As I work through this, professional therapy has helped tremendously, and I hear that you would welcome professional counseling if you had insurance. I have insurance, but I pay my therapist out-of-pocket. She is excellent, and for ethical reasons does not accept insurance. She charges clients on a sliding scale (I believe $50 per session and up). We generally meet bi-weekly, though sometimes we meet more or less frequently depending on how things are going for me emotionally and financially. Would this kind of situation work for you?

 

Thank you.

 

Whenever I have the money and/or insurance I want to see a therapist or psychiatrist. I'm really not sure how much it will help aside from anxiety and other issues. Normally the "cure" for nightmares is lucid dreaming in psychiatry, so I'm kind of up shit creek. But at least with therapy it can't hurt to try.

[pitchu]

Welcome to the forums, Naiya, and good for you for sticking around through a not-exactly-supportive initial greeting. This is a forum for support, you're absolutely right.

 

So, as someone who has nothing specifically supportive to offer except a welcome, I'll bow out and hope you gain something of benefit from others here who may be more able to address your situation.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

Try to find a brilliant neurologist would be my suggestion.

 

It sounds like you have been traumatized repeatedly by this and what others have said and even forced you to do regarding this. If I were in your shoes I would try to find a neurologist that was known to be brilliant and had a specialty that relates to the OBE's and mental torture this would be causing me. Only after doing that would I try to find someone to help me deal with the obviously crippling trauma that I have been through as a result of this and other people who make assumptions about it whilst trying to force their idea of what it is onto me against my will.

 

That can be very traumatic indeed, and it is entirely their fault for reacting to you that way (even if all six billion people on the planet blamed you then it would still be THEIR fault.) You are not at fault for what you cannot help, you are not at fault. You cannot help it. You cannot and should not be blamed for suffering from something that is obviously NOT a result of your conscious mind and will and is also not a result of simple subconscious happenings.

 

So in short, try to find a brilliant neurologist, especially someone who might be willing to take you on due to the sheer peculiarity of your suffering. You might be able to cut yourself a deal with such a person. Do some research, anywhere, everywhere you can get your hands in information concerning promising neurologists who are young or old and known to be brilliant. Also look for corporate, church, philanthropic, or humanitarian sources of sponsorship funding so you will have your ducks lined up in a row for when you see this individual.

 

That is my advice to you.

[Emme]

Welcome!

[agnosticator]

Hi Naiya, and welcome!

 

I agree with Quid. and others about seeing a neurologist. Your problem seems to be psychological/physical and related to hypnogogic/hypnopompic states along with OBEs. Hopefully evaluations and medication can help. Maybe natural hormonal changes (as you age) will help too. I am not an expert, but everything I've read points to this being more common than we think. I wish you the best.

[Naiya]

So in short, try to find a brilliant neurologist, especially someone who might be willing to take you on due to the sheer peculiarity of your suffering.

 

 

Thank you for your understanding...it really means a lot to me.

 

That is something I'll have to think about...I'm hesitant to seek help because I've bee burned so many times in the past, so right now I'm not in a place for wanting to do it again, but I think maybe somewhere down the line. Last year I contacted Stephen LaBerg, who's an expert who lives in my area, but never heard back. I didn't mention everything because I didn't want him to think I was some unstable crazy person. Maybe someone in neurology will help. Not sure because they may just wave me off as having sleep paralysis or something. I guess it couldn't hurt to try sometime.

 

(For the record, someone earlier mentioned drugs...I've never had anything other than alcohol, and I only drink a few times a year. I'm a science major so I don't have the time or money for a drink when I can buy a meal for the same price. As far as drugs, I've been completely terrified that I'll have a bad trip or it'll somehow push me over the edge and I'll become schizophrenic, so I've avoided them like the plague.)

 

Mostly what I'd want is something in the way of therapy to get myself emotionally and mentally stable, and until then I want to get myself out of the faith and blame game. I.e., "This is happening because you have unrepentant sin, go repent some more."

 

I mean...imagine that you have a recurring health problem, say, migraines. And every time you had a migraine people would say "Well it's because you have candles in your house (or whatever superstition), or you haven't repented all your sins, or you sinned a special sin." And of course you'd ask, "How come you don't have migraines? You sin too." Then they just launch into this whole thing about how you're letting SATAN talk for you...yeah.

 

Or then you've got the other camp who go, "Well that migraine exists only in your head, if you didn't think about it so much it would go away. The more you pay attention to it, the worse it gets." And you say "How do I pretend something doesn't exist when I'm constantly reminded it's there?" Then they launch into some pseudo Dr. Phil mode.

 

Basically, in both cases, it totally absolves God or anyone else of any responsibility and if you don't fix it yourself by thinking the right way, it's your fault. Basically, it's this abusive cycle of BS that makes you go around again and again and everyone keeps holding a carrot out for you to make sure you never stop. This time I'm going to stop. I'm jumping off the bandwagon. Maybe I can have some relief now.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

Good on you.

 

[PiracyOfTheHead]

Mostly what I'd want is something in the way of therapy to get myself emotionally and mentally stable, and until then I want to get myself out of the faith and blame game. I.e., "This is happening because you have unrepentant sin, go repent some more."

 

Hi, Naiya, I am glad you are still here. It looked a little iffy early this morning.

 

I am seeing a basic pattern in all the answers;

 

1) Look into your dreams/OBEs

 

2) See a Neurologist

 

3) Get into therapy.

 

You have expressed a willingness and a want to do each and all of those to some degree.

 

I dont know how you are going to be able to do anything with the neurologist without insurance. When I first had my neck problems and nobody believed me, it became a very common thing to say "See a Neurologist", as if that was somehow going to happen when I couldn't even pay for a chiropractor. Perhaps you can create a reason that will allow for a beneficial E.R. visit, I do not know.

 

I'm not mocking the advice to see one, I'm quite sure that is sound advice in your case, it is possible that you need to see one, I would just try and rule out everything else before embarking on the Neurologist journey due to your lack of insurance and not being filthy rich.

 

I am 5 years into a severe injury and disability that was met with "See a Neurologist" for the first couple years and it was such a simple answer, so I wonder, in your case is it necessary to see one of the highest priced doctors or can you begin by looking at the simple things for possible explanations? Occam's Razor, with a twist. I know you have already looked, I mean a more informed, more developed systematic approach based on new input.

 

I am not even willing to say that it CANT be anything supernatural but that puts me in the extreme minority and you wont hear a lot of that here. In my case, with as much experience as I have had I would say it would be dangerous NOT to look into both the natural and supernatural.

 

Here's my story in a nutshell.

 

I had severe neck pain and it was always exacerbated by activity and movement. It became so bad that I wound up in the E.R., I was told it was all in my head after they did the very minimum of tests. But the funny thing was, the tests that they did, they never once looked at my neck. Why the hell would I need a full blood work, EKG and pseudo-psych exam by the E.R. doctor?

 

I ended up back there again, this time I was given the same battery of tests, nothing was done to look into my neck pain and I was prescribed very strong Ibuprofen.

 

After losing money from not being able to work as much, after being more and more indoctrinated into a cult that told me this was good for me and myriad other problems that came with such a debilitating injury and psychotic religious adherence, the next time I ended up in the E.R. I was complaining of a combination of problems, then they REALLY do not know what the hell to do, don't confuse the underpaid 'coats' with a dual diagnosis. Not only was I in pain now, I was losing sleep, I was becoming more and more exhausted from that. My old anxiety then began to re-surface and I was having panic attacks and non-stop anxiety. So this injury triggered numerous other problems and because I had no insurance I was getting the very minimal care, I cant even call it "care", they certainly did not "care", they whooshed me through, talked me down and whisked me out. Sometimes I would get a shot in the ass to calm my anxiety but never a prescription, never anything other than " There's nothing wrong with you, but you need to see mental health at such and such building 20 miles from here".

 

This happened several more times, with me walking out one time because the triage nurse was such a dipshit that he told me I couldnt possibly be in pain because I looked young and healthy (Yeah thats what happens when youre an athlete AND you've been training for SEAL team. Now I couldnt even do 50 push-ups in a row if I tried, Ive been going steadily downhill for years now and lately its like the small spirals at the end of the vortex, how they spin real fast and you sink real quick) then he made some other cracks and I knew it would be the same old BS.

 

Nobody ONCE touched my neck, despite my pleading, despite my description of the pain, not one of those ER doctors touched my neck. You could feel lumps of scar tissue, you could feel a bulge where the spur is, and you could feel a "pop" when my tendon was taut and I turned my head to the left and right if you were pushing down on the injured area.

 

Since I truly believed that my mental health was in the hands of god and that any admission of deficiency or need for help in that area would put me not only on a fast track into the confessional and strong admonitions for more faith and more reading, I couldn't admit it to myself or anyone else because "Shhhh, god will hear", my religious training simply would not allow for this to be so, it HAD TO BE DEMONS OR NOT ENOUGH WORD OF GOD IN MY WORLDLY, FALLEN MIND and it HAD TO BE FIXED THROUGH CHRISTIANITY AND THE BIBLE, or else I was anathema. So EVERYTHING became worse off.

 

I was given every line one could think of to avoid that psychologist or psychiatrist and to blame it on myself, the fallen world and the forces of darkness.

 

Is any of this sounding familiar??? Just go look at "The Lion's Den" and read through the loving conversation I had with a stranger who wanted to prove I left Christianity because I was mentally ill, apparently you can be demon possessed and stark raving mad and Jesus will heal you but if you have anxiety and depression with a dash of paranoia before entering the church, its just too much. I gave the Church (Or should I say KIRK, AMEEN!!!!! Like nails on a chalkboard I bet MUHUHAHAHAAA!!! ) 10+ years asking god to fix me, using the word of god to meditate....all that time and I walk away so screwed up that I need constant medication.

 

Long story short, it ended up being that I had a bone spur on one of my vertebra, slicing into the tissues upon every movement of the neck. With a little reflection I was able to pinpoint when it happened and the Chiropractor who, get this, took the X-Rays of my neck and found the problems within an hour confirmed that the damage and re-damage looked consistent to the time frame of when I had been hit so hard that this could have happened.

 

A few points here. I know what its like. Other people here know what its like. There's the brutal honest truth, so you're not alone.

 

Also the other point being, look at all that time, all that misery, all that suffering, and looking for specialist doctors and hoping I had the money to help and getting an MRI done and every single thing that happened when a Doctor could have used common sense, felt the injured area and decided to take X-rays, I could have had my life back years ago and I wouldnt have been at the mercy of my religious leaders who all but ruined my mind for me. Even now, life is unlivable and I am hanging on by a thread.....The faster you fix or know whats wrong at least, the best possible chance you have.

 

Create a plan to check off everything you can do on your own or cheaply. If you have already done every single thing then keep moving on to the next logical and possible solution and hopefully the answer will come to the surface.

 

 

I mean...imagine that you have a recurring health problem, say, migraines. And every time you had a migraine people would say "Well it's because you have candles in your house (or whatever superstition), or you haven't repented all your sins, or you sinned a special sin." And of course you'd ask, "How come you don't have migraines? You sin too." Then they just launch into this whole thing about how you're letting SATAN talk for you...yeah.

 

Or then you've got the other camp who go, "Well that migraine exists only in your head, if you didn't think about it so much it would go away. The more you pay attention to it, the worse it gets." And you say "How do I pretend something doesn't exist when I'm constantly reminded it's there?" Then they launch into some pseudo Dr. Phil mode.

 

Basically, in both cases, it totally absolves God or anyone else of any responsibility and if you don't fix it yourself by thinking the right way, it's your fault. Basically, it's this abusive cycle of BS that makes you go around again and again and everyone keeps holding a carrot out for you to make sure you never stop. This time I'm going to stop. I'm jumping off the bandwagon. Maybe I can have some relief now.

 

Yes, Imagine that.

 

My advice for the Christianity is that "God" allows himself to be put on hold until you are all better since he wont fix it. Then you will talk. But who really wants to come back to an abusive relationship after they are better anyways?

 

If I had left Christianity years ago then I would have been forced to face facts and not been able to hope against hope that it was just going to happen, I would get this miracle that they kept promising me.....the miracle never came, of course.

 

You dont have to renounce god publicly and burn your bibles and break your cross...none of that is necessary. Simply put all that to the side and begin to learn, ask questions, seek answers. When you (I would like to say "if" but, hmmmm) become absolutely fed up with God and the bible and you feel comfortable and safe in your life without him, then by all means, totally renounce him and all the rest.

 

The reason I say that is because it seems you came here in exasperation, frustration and confusion. And not flat out hatred for god, I'm not quite sure, you just seemed on the precipice of leaving the faith and then your last statement about jumping off the bandwagon is all the info I have to go on.

 

So now you have some more info, you are getting responses. I hope that makes you feel better than late last night.

 

And I gave you the entire Novel pretty much so you know where my crazy ass is coming from and wont feel alone in your peculiar situation.