shantonu Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I am sorry that somebody taught you bad hermeneutics which lead to you having harsh feelings towards Christianity. These things that I mention are just additional reasons why I hate Xianity. They are not the reason nor the source of my anger at it. I was raised Pentecostal/Evangelical. Yes, it's only one branch, but "polish a turd, it's still a turd". I have no need for any god and receive absolutely no benefit from "faith". I have no problem with personal spirituality, however I truly believe that organized religion is a diseased parasite that feeds off of people instead of feeding them. I also do not have a problem with people who do not have spirituality, or a specific faith such as I have. I understand why someone would not believe in Christianity. What I don't understand is the recurring theme that I see; which is a vehemence hatred for Christianity. If it is not for you, then disregard it; but I find it counter productive to spend time hating anything. Part of the reason for the hatred is that fundamentalist Christianity has so much power in American society. Thus the ridiculous pandering Obama had to do with Rick Warren. In no other developed country would a leader have to do what Obama did. Also, many people on this site have been through a lot of pychological abuse--for example they have been made to feel worthless apart from Christ. So naturally there is a backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 If it is not for you, then disregard it; but I find it counter productive to spend time hating anything. These are rather healthy methods for us to vent our anger with. Anger at the mental abuse we endured, at being lied to, at wasting years and years of our lives on a sham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 If it is not for you, then disregard it; but I find it counter productive to spend time hating anything. These are rather healthy methods for us to vent our anger with. Anger at the mental abuse we endured, at being lied to, at wasting years and years of our lives on a sham. Do you really feel that it was a complete waste of time? Maybe you learned something. I think I did but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Do you really feel that it was a complete waste of time? Maybe you learned something. I think I did but that's just me. Yes, I do. I really feel I had a good 18 years of my life stolen from me. What I gained and learned I would have attained in other ways. It's very likely I wouldn't be the exact same person I am today (and I REALLY like me now), but I feel that I should have been at this point in my life about 12-15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Take a trip down to the Bible Belt and there you shall get your answers. Also, the Bible itself. Jesus referred to the flood and creation as if they actually happened. Then there is the verse where Jesus states that not one thing is to be taken down or altered until his return. "Your word is truth" (John 17:17). Jesus said this as he prayed to god. "2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God". The word "inspiration" is the Greek word theopneustos, which may literally be translated "God-breathed". So we see immediately that God Himself "breathed" the Scriptures. This means that the Bible is God's words and thoughts to us. The various books that make up the Bible were written via God's chosen instruments who were moved, or literally "carried", by God's Spirit (2 Peter 1:21). The Bible does not consist of thoughts which are human in origin, even though its teaching is expressed in the language of humans for our understanding." http://www.rightdivision.com/html/the_inspired_bible.html You re talking about a fairly recent phenomenon. Do you understand how language works? God breathed? No, not God breathed, God inspired... Inspired by one's love or devotion or hatered or compulsion or obsession with GOD. Inspiration is a subjective thing... I can not force someone to be inspired... it is like respect, it originates in the person who respects, not from the person respected. Inspiration originates in the inspired, not the inspiration. People write. Everyone knows that. Even the stupidest 3000 year old heatnes and Hebrews. God doesn't write or speak. When The Prophets said: Hear ye the word of God, they meant the same thing as when we say "I swear to God." Who are you to tell me what 2000 year old Greek idioms mean? How does "God Breathed" mean God's thoughts and words to us? If you want to throw fundamentalist doctrine around and then attack it because it is stupid, go ahead. That's called a strawman fallacy. But rememeber you attacking funamentalist doctrine, not some ancient writing. BTW the guy you referenced at the website is a great source of ancient text interporetation... "David Tavendar was born in Sydney, Australia, in 1965 and obtained a Bachelor of Educations (Music) from Newcastle Concervatorium of Music." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 You re talking about a fairly recent phenomenon. Do you understand how language works? God breathed? No, not God breathed, God inspired... Inspired by one's love or devotion or hatered or compulsion or obsession with GOD. Inspiration is a subjective thing... I can not force someone to be inspired... it is like respect, it originates in the person who respects, not from the person respected. Inspiration originates in the inspired, not the inspiration. People write. Everyone knows that. Even the stupidest 3000 year old heatnes and Hebrews. God doesn't write or speak. When The Prophets said: Hear ye the word of God, they meant the same thing as when we say "I swear to God." Who are you to tell me what 2000 year old Greek idioms mean? How does "God Breathed" mean God's thoughts and words to us? If you want to throw fundamentalist doctrine around and then attack it because it is stupid, go ahead. That's called a strawman fallacy. But rememeber you attacking funamentalist doctrine, not some ancient writing. BTW the guy you referenced at the website is a great source of ancient text interporetation... "David Tavendar was born in Sydney, Australia, in 1965 and obtained a Bachelor of Educations (Music) from Newcastle Concervatorium of Music." Who are you to tell me or any of us what it means either? The simple fact of the matter is that the word "theopneustos" can be taken to LITERALLY mean god-breathed. Since the concept is subjective, where do you get your concrete stance about your belief of it? Furthermore, what about those verses i listed? No comment on them? Since you obviously believe in Jesus, what do you make of his remark that God's word is truth? Go ahead and give us your crap about how he was only talking about a few specific, hand-picked verses, aka, the verses kcdad likes. Yes kcdad, if i got a degree in one thing then that means i cannot ever possibly know about anything else. Btw chief, you still haven't given an explaination of what you believe yet, and or why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Oh god...please don't turn this into another thread from hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 'Justin' date='Feb 8 2009, 09:16 PM'Who are you to tell me or any of us what it means either? The simple fact of the matter is that the word "theopneustos" can be taken to LITERALLY mean god-breathed. Since the concept is subjective, where do you get your concrete stance about your belief of it? Well thank you Capt Obvious. ANYTHING can be taken literally. That is what literally means. Unfortunately, not too many speak or write literally. So do yourself a favor.. go through one day taking everything you hear and read literally. The reason I am concrete in a non-literal interpretation is because breathing is what living creatures do... not eternal, infinite, non-corporeal entities. (BTW do you know what the Arabic idiom to "breathe on someone " means? For example in Matthew and or ACTS Jesus breathes on the disciples) IT MEANS TO GIVE THEM COURAGE... to ENCOURAGE them... not literally, you don't actually GIVE them courage. You INSPIRE them to showing their courage. Get it? Its an idiomatic expression. Jesus inspired them. God inspired some writers. Whistler's Mother inspired him. Sunsets and the constellation of Orion inspire me. Furthermore, what about those verses i listed? No comment on them? Since you obviously believe in Jesus, what do you make of his remark that God's word is truth? Go ahead and give us your crap about how he was only talking about a few specific, hand-picked verses, aka, the verses kcdad likes. What does "God's word" have to do with The Bible. I guess I didn't think I had to spell it out for you. Jesus had a bad habit of hardly ever reading The New Testament, you know. Yes kcdad, if i got a degree in one thing then that means i cannot ever possibly know about anything else. All I am saying is he is not n expert in that field... why not cite someone who is. Btw chief, you still haven't given an explaination of what you believe yet, and or why. What I believe about what and why? What do you care what I believe or why I believe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 If it is not for you, then disregard it; but I find it counter productive to spend time hating anything. These are rather healthy methods for us to vent our anger with. Anger at the mental abuse we endured, at being lied to, at wasting years and years of our lives on a sham. I guess I can see the mental abuse. Anytime you go against the norm of society, people might be apt to criticize you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I read in the book "Atheist Universe" by David Mills that Christianity hadn't been outlawed in Poland during the times of Communist control. I think the churches that frankly scared the living bejeebus out of the controlling regimes were the ones that preached "liberation theology". Of course, after hearing a sermon by D. James Kennedy today, I can't honestly believe that the Bible has anything to do with the cause of liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I guess I can see the mental abuse. Anytime you go against the norm of society, people might be apt to criticize you. I am referring to the mental abuse heaped on us by the church. Believing that you are never good enough. Believing you are not worthy of God's "gracious gift". Believing that if you step out of line even for a moment that you must throw yourself at the Lord's feet and beg his forgiveness. All that and more. I know that most churches will state that they don't preach that kind of gospel, but that is what a LOT of people believe. Throw self-esteem and mental issues on top of those beliefs and you have a keg of dynamite ready to go off. Religion and mental issues are really dangerous combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Ouch, such harsh words . I never claimed to "know better" than the Christians that came before me. I do feel there is a trend from a strict literal interpretation of the bible to a more all-inclusive hermeneutical approach that takes the whole biblical theme into account and not just picking out verses. I can't say I have ever read in the bible where it says that I should kill people who are not of my reasoning; thus I must have a better Christian theology than all of those people who committed the aforementioned atrocities you stated. I don't think that any person in my congregation would approve of these heinous acts, which you claim are an extensive part of our dogma. I wasn't saying it to be particularly harsh, just to encorage you to think. Most of us, myself included, don't really like it when people suggest we "just didn't do it right," and even if you didn't intend it to be taken that way, it sounds unbelievably pretentious to me. If you think there is nothing in the bible to support those things then you aren't very well read in the bible. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" IS every bit a bible verse as "love your neighbor as yourself." Can you reconcile those with hermeneutics? I don't really see how, and why bother, they were written some 700 years apart from one another by very different people. What it meant to believe in god was a very different thing for each of them. I'm sure that no one in your congregation would approve of those acts. I don't think it has a thing to do with their religion though, Christians in the middle ages would have done them without a second thought, indeed even in the modern world Christians in 3rd world countries still do these things. Most of us have learned to value human life more, but I don't see any evidence that religion played a large part in that change. I guess it depends on how you define "our," I don't see Christianity as some timeless truth or monolithic group, but just a label that various groups use to describe themselves. Many of those groups have little in common with one another save the name. The question "who is a real Christian" may concern you, but I think the real question is "who is a real human." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glebealyth Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 At the time I was trying to follow the Bible (at least the New Testament) quite literally. Where in the Bible does it instruct people to read the Bible literally? Just a thought..........if the bible instructed people not to take the bible literally, what would they then do? PANIC!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 So do yourself a favor.. go through one day taking everything you hear and read literally. When it is a book thats supposed to be one's ticket to heaven and avoid hell then one cannot afford to cherry pick for risk of overlooking some vital info. Furthermore, who is to say that what they have picked is the truth? Maybe John 3:16 is a metaphore? Maybe most of the fanciful rubbish in the OT is the literal truth and everything pertaining to Jesus is metaphore and not to be taken literally? This is why it is different than what you said in the quote above, and also why i keep asking you to give me examples of what you believe and don't believe in the Bible. Like what do you view as literal and what you view as metaphorical, and most importantly, why. What do you consider god breathed in the silly notion of literal breath from the lungs, and what do you consider god breathed in the literal word for word whispering in scribes ears, and again, why? What does "God's word" have to do with The Bible. I guess I didn't think I had to spell it out for you. Jesus had a bad habit of hardly ever reading The New Testament, you know. What the hell do you think is God's word? Plus, why are you mentioning Jesus never reading the NT? I know this. That only goes to show that "God's word" is refering to the OT, and all the rubbish in it. The OT was god's word, the NT was mostly Jesus's word and crap pertaining to him. All I am saying is he is not n expert in that field... why not cite someone who is. You don't have to be an expert to understand ""theopneustos". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafutopia Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Who (until The Holy Roman Empire) ever said The Bible was a guide book to life? ? Hi. I'm confused by your reference to "The Holy Roman Empire". Please explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafutopia Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Part of the reason for the hatred is that fundamentalist Christianity has so much power in American society. Thus the ridiculous pandering Obama had to do with Rick Warren. In no other developed country would a leader have to do what Obama did. He didn't "have" to do what he did. He caved in and legitimized the fundamentalists. So disappointing. I kept hoping he would "come out" as an atheist or at least an agnostic. whine,whine. C'est la bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafutopia Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I guess I can see the mental abuse. Anytime you go against the norm of society, people might be apt to criticize you. ? "Criticize"? No. Condemn, ostracize, defame, hate, shun, insult, demonize, libel, slander. You can't possibly know what it's like until you've been through it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 'Justin' date='Feb 9 2009, 06:01 PM' When it is a book thats supposed to be one's ticket to heaven ... Says who? The early Christian Church fathers? Did Paul or Jesus, Moses or Ezra ever say that? What the hell do you think is God's word? Plus, why are you mentioning Jesus never reading the NT? I know this. That only goes to show that "God's word" is refering to the OT, and all the rubbish in it. The OT was god's word, the NT was mostly Jesus's word and crap pertaining to him. What the hell do I Think? That you think The Old Testament was found on the ground by Adam and Eve. It was even written until about 700 BC at the earliest. The prophets didn't READ God's word.. they SPOKE it. Let me repeat that: THEY spoke it. God's Word is THE TRUTH. From whatever source, on whatever topic. It is not a written document of dubious origins.. You don't have to be an expert to understand ""theopneustos". Apparently... you presume anyone can understand a literal understanding... apparently you are correct. (BTW did you mean that anyone could literally "stand under" theopneustos?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbi tt Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Part of the reason for the hatred is that fundamentalist Christianity has so much power in American society. Thus the ridiculous pandering Obama had to do with Rick Warren. In no other developed country would a leader have to do what Obama did. He didn't "have" to do what he did. He caved in and legitimized the fundamentalists. So disappointing. I kept hoping he would "come out" as an atheist or at least an agnostic. whine,whine. C'est la bleh. Warren doesn't call himself a fundamentalist... "Today there really aren't that many Fundamentalists left; I don't know if you know that or not, but they are such a minority; there aren't that many Fundamentalists left in America ... Now the word 'fundamentalist' actually comes from a document in the 1920s called the Five Fundamentals of the Faith. And it is a very legalistic, narrow view of Christianity." Quote by Rick Warren, May 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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