Abiyoyo Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 i don't think they necessarily believe, i think they are afraid NOT to believe. there is a difference. To be afraid of not believing would imply that somebody somewhere must have had some type of encounter with God. Hence, why 2/3rds of the world believe in this God of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 It was God speaking to Micah. And how does it connect to Muslims? And a question for you, did Got speak to Mohammad? Is Allah the same God as YHWH? Is Ahura Mazda the same God as YHWH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 It was God speaking to Micah. And how does it connect to Muslims? And a question for you, did Got speak to Mohammad? Is Allah the same God as YHWH? Is Ahura Mazda the same God as YHWH? When I read Micah, it sure seems as God is saying their would be two paths. Remember what the Bible said about Ishmael? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 When I read Micah, it sure seems as God is saying their would be two paths. Remember what the Bible said about Ishmael? Ookay... I think it's an extrapolation from the text that might not have been intentional. You start with the assumption it was written by God, and God intended the interpration to be the way you are making it to. But I could just as well assume the author was expressing the "and" of two thoughts rather than the "or" between them. Zion and Jerusalem could be just interchangeable and Law and Word as well, so the intention of the author was not to claim dual paths, but one path with two meanings. That Israel as a whole would be the source of both the Law and the Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheTruthHurts Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 i don't think they necessarily believe, i think they are afraid NOT to believe. there is a difference. To be afraid of not believing would imply that somebody somewhere must have had some type of encounter with God. Hence, why 2/3rds of the world believe in this God of Israel. It implies that someone claimed they had an encounter. Warfare and theocratic laws have a lot to do with two religions claiming 2/3rds of the pop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 If i was god and i was wanting people to avoid burning in hell for all eternity, i believe i could do better in making my presence known. I have heard this alot lately. If God is God why can't He just do this or that. Because, he's not a waiter/waitress. You want grape, or strawberry. How could God have made Himself known better to the world; when 2/3rds of the entire Earth believe in Him as God? You cannot lump all the people who believe in a god and say they believe in the god of Israel. According to your Bible, most of these folks will burn in hell when they die because they do not accept Jesus as the savior of mankind. The Muslims just view him as a prophet and the Jews didn't think he was the son of god. So, all these folks will burn in hell for all eternity simply because god didn't make his presence known. For crying out loud, he doesn't even make his presence known to his believers, otherwise there would not be thousands of denominations dedicated to the SAME deity, each claiming theirs is the only right one. God had better be a waitress/waiter if he wants to be taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I have heard this alot lately. If God is God why can't He just do this or that. Because, he's not a waiter/waitress. You want grape, or strawberry. How could God have made Himself known better to the world; when 2/3rds of the entire Earth believe in Him as God? He would reveal himself to me if he loved me. But he doesn't, because he doesn't exist. It's not a matter of what I want, but a matter of me having a brain and using it. My conclusion is that the Bible God is a fictitious character, and it's up to God to prove me otherwise. If he does exist, and he doesn't want to prove me wrong, then he doesn't care if I'm going to Hell, which means he doesn't love me. If he cares, he would do whatever he could to convince me, but I spent 30 years of convincing myself and when my faith was faltering, I prayed for strength and faith, but it kept on shrinking. Do you remember the story about the man walking in the sand with Jesus, and he looks back and see the footprint part of the way only being one set? And Jesus say "that's when I carried you." Well, I carried myself when I was tired. I needed God to carry me. I needed God to give me strength and faith when it was faltering. Is asking for salvation the same as asking for a Ferrari? Is asking for strengthened faith the same as asking God for strawberry milkshake and grapefruit juice? If someone is asking God to do the only thing that only God can do, and God can't even do that, does it mean that faith only comes when I make myself believe against what I believe? How can I make myself believe when I'm losing faith? It doesn't make sense, does it? It's interesting that you include Islam in those who will be saved, but those who believe in Shiva, Ahura Mazda, or any other God, they are excluded? What about those who are Buddhists? They are lost, because they have to believe in a Mono-theistic God to be saved? Perhaps the answer is simply: it doesn't matter what you believe. And if Muslims are saved, then why are Tennessee Evangelicals involved with Iraqi Kurds to spread the Gospel and turn over the "evil" Islam? Didn't they get the memo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 You cannot lump all the people who believe in a god and say they believe in the god of Israel. According to your Bible, most of these folks will burn in hell when they die because they do not accept Jesus as the savior of mankind. The Muslims just view him as a prophet and the Jews didn't think he was the son of god. So, all these folks will burn in hell for all eternity simply because god didn't make his presence known. For crying out loud, he doesn't even make his presence known to his believers, otherwise there would not be thousands of denominations dedicated to the SAME deity, each claiming theirs is the only right one. God had better be a waitress/waiter if he wants to be taken seriously. Do you believe the Gospels in the NT are 100% accurate, unaltered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I have heard this alot lately. If God is God why can't He just do this or that. Because, he's not a waiter/waitress. You want grape, or strawberry. How could God have made Himself known better to the world; when 2/3rds of the entire Earth believe in Him as God? He would reveal himself to me if he loved me. But he doesn't, because he doesn't exist. It's not a matter of what I want, but a matter of me having a brain and using it. I also have a brain Hans, and use it everyday. I am not a whack job that has a religious superiority problem; and as you said earlier, everyone basically has their reasons to doing things. There is much information via the internet, and instant communication. Sometimes I speak to people, religious people; and they look at me like I'm crazy. I forget. Many people get up, put their church clothes on, go to church, just because they want to do what they feel is right. I can't say they are wrong, whether they do that for themselves; if it's because their whole family is religious and they were raised religious. The God I believe in, knows the heart and soul of all, and if it's the same God in Jesus; then He would have to be compassionate toward the heart of a person, like Thomas. I do believe in God. I also look into history, other religions, and other beliefs. I understand your position and was just putting my thoughts out there. I apologize if I offended you. Sometimes there are things that just can't be explained or reasoned. I don't see God in the light as I mentioned, though I too would assume that if God loved us, he would have revealed Himself to us. The only difference between you and I is that you feel He hasn't, and I feel He has in different ways, to me and all else through Jesus, and history. I was speaking to someone that had been a drug addict and this person was getting into church regular. Very simple person, very simple knowledge of God/Jesus, very simple oriented. Paul who? Samuel who? Joshua who? But, he was not simple about one thing. That Jesus saved his life. Now whether he got off drugs from his belief in Jesus, or by his own way; I can not judge that man; and honestly, thats why I say what about Doubting Thomas, and post in these forums. Because we all have our own walk of life, and who am I to say it's the same for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I understand your position and was just putting my thoughts out there. I apologize if I offended you. Nah, forget about it. You didn't offend me. I know I'm pushing you. Consider it a favor instead. A belief that has not been tested is a belief without value. If you just believe whatever you believed, you would never really think about what could be right or wrong. Without challenge, your faith is weak. The only way for you to get confident in what you believe, and know why you believe it, is to be challenged. Isn't that right? So am I angry, upset, offended, or anything like that? Not one iota (look, I made a Bible reference! ). Because we all have our own walk of life, and who am I to say it's the same for everybody. That's right. But you are here debating topics, which means you do have a drive and a wish to search for more understanding, which means you will get resistance to ideas and being challenged, and even sometimes misunderstood, and you will grow because of it. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Not one iota (look, I made a Bible reference! ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Amen to that. Btw, totally different topic. Yoyo, have you seen this thing: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=&a...st&p=434662 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 You cannot lump all the people who believe in a god and say they believe in the god of Israel. According to your Bible, most of these folks will burn in hell when they die because they do not accept Jesus as the savior of mankind. The Muslims just view him as a prophet and the Jews didn't think he was the son of god. So, all these folks will burn in hell for all eternity simply because god didn't make his presence known. For crying out loud, he doesn't even make his presence known to his believers, otherwise there would not be thousands of denominations dedicated to the SAME deity, each claiming theirs is the only right one. God had better be a waitress/waiter if he wants to be taken seriously. Do you believe the Gospels in the NT are 100% accurate, unaltered? Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_PK Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I've probably watched Contact a thousand times. I really enjoyed that movie and also enjoy books written by Sagan. (Currently reading Shadows of Forgotten Anscestors which is EXCELLENT) Anyway, in the movie, the character of Ellie Arroway is asked by Father Joss, "Did you love your Father?" To which she responds, "Yes!" At which point he says, "Prove it." That one always threw me. It seems there are some things you just can't prove that are true. This is one of the silliest tactics that theists take. They try to equate belief that we love somebody (or that others love us) with the existence of god. What they miss is that "love" is a label for a particular mental state. It's an abstraction without physical existence. If you want to argue by analogy that your god is also an abstraction without physical existence, I would of course agree, but I don't think that's the result that most theists want. Not to mention the fact that whether I love somebody or not is a personal (and rather mundane) belief, not an extraordinary one that others are trying to convince me of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Nope Then their is room for error. Correct? And Justin. Even if there was no errors, it says not to judge. Right? All it says for Christians to do is spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not judge and condemn. That's how I look at it. What do you think about Ishmael and Islam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Nope Then their is room for error. Correct? And Justin. Even if there was no errors, it says not to judge. Right? All it says for Christians to do is spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not judge and condemn. That's how I look at it. What do you think about Ishmael and Islam? Room for error on the part of the Gospels. Pertaining to Ishmael and Islam, what exactly are you wanting to know from me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Room for error on the part of the Gospels. Pertaining to Ishmael and Islam, what exactly are you wanting to know from me? I started a topic about it. http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=29171&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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