Deva Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The tithe is the biggest rip-off ever. I have to say I never fell for it when I was a Christian, but probably added all together I did give quite a lot. I wish I had ALL that money back now. I realized that if anything happened to me and I ended up on the street, a hospital or in a bad nursing home, nothing was ever going to be done for me by the Church, no matter how long I had been a member. Probably the best I could hope for would be a "visitation" by some church members and the jerk of a episcopal priest we had. It went to the diocesian assessment and future church repairs whenever the next hurricane blows through. In addition to the tithe, there were the various building programs. It was like a bottomless pit. My parents church moved from a modest building to some two million dollar monstrosity. All I can say is there goes my inheritance. Anybody fall for this? What are your feelings about it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 13, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thanks. I was trying to forget. I fell for it, and I'm finally over being pissed. At least my old church didn't waste a lot of money. It went to building maintenance and small improvements, modest parsonage, modest pastoral salary, missions that fed kids, and it helped support a small Christian grade school we had. No bell towers, huge crosses, or limos for the deacons. I try to look at it as another income tax for the privilege of living on Godland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thanks. I was trying to forget. I fell for it, and I'm finally over being pissed. Ah, Florduh, I thought I was over it too, then Kyle said something in the 170 foot cross thread. Amazing how a person can be out of this stuff for years and then still stuff comes back to memory that just rekindles the rage. Christianity --the biggest con game in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbler Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Very faithful tither. My ex was very adamant about it. It was always the first check written every payday. God had to get his money first! Otherwise he would get very angry :angry: and then there's no telling what he might do! Now I stay home on Sundays and save 10%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sorry Deva. Didn't mean to dredge up the church tax thing for you. Yes, it is the biggest rip off ever. I didn't fall for it, but I've seen my parents make it the first check of the month my whole life. I've even heard my mom's guilt about sometimes not giving the full 10%. She would say that is why she volunteers so much. She HOPES god will realize that and "let it slide" WTF????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlene Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sorry Deva. Didn't mean to dredge up the church tax thing for you. Yes, it is the biggest rip off ever. I didn't fall for it, but I've seen my parents make it the first check of the month my whole life. I've even heard my mom's guilt about sometimes not giving the full 10%. She would say that is why she volunteers so much. She HOPES god will realize that and "let it slide" WTF????? Kyle, that was the exact same brainwashed indocrination I had. If I didn't tithe the full 10% I would be wracked with guilt for the whole week. I thought I was stealing from God. I would then rationalise it by making sure I also gave to other charities, and think that would appease god. I remember a specific sermon I heard as a brandnew xtian that stuck in my brain for 13yrs. The pastor gave the usual spiel on tithing, Malachi, etc...then said you were robbing god if you didn't do it, and he also said it in essence "buys" gods protection. Like if you don't tithe life can get rocky and the devil has a foothold in your life and god can't protect you then and if your washing machine breaks down its because your not tithing, but if you did god would give you money to fix it...or protect your life so those things don't happen...now WTF?????? No wonder I was plagued with guilt for years on end. I always attributed bad things financially in my life if I didn't tithe properly or over and above what was required of me. See not only do they pressure the tithe, it is always the over and above give till it hurts philosophy so god can bless you extra. What a dolt I was AAAAgh I hate xtianity!!!!!!!!!! Can I get a refund? I am not satisfied with the services rendered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Sorry Deva. Didn't mean to dredge up the church tax thing for you. Yes, it is the biggest rip off ever. I didn't fall for it, but I've seen my parents make it the first check of the month my whole life. I've even heard my mom's guilt about sometimes not giving the full 10%. She would say that is why she volunteers so much. She HOPES god will realize that and "let it slide" WTF????? That's OK Kyle. That is what this site is for. Honestly, let's make sure we can get the opportunity to vent and let it all out, no matter how long it takes. Let's leave no stone unturned in wiping this terrible mind disease called Christianity out of our minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'm still giving. My parents are tithing away my inheritance 10% at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Kathlene, I did the same thing except with sin. When I've had tough financial times, I thought it was due to my sin. I actually had a boss that put that in my head. I even blamed myself for HIS business failure. I was afraid that I was the "sin in the camp" that caused the business to fail. I've actual met people who will debate you on whether the 10% applies to the gross or the net on your paycheck. Great thread Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think we all fell for it. I remember when I was at a pentecostal church and the pastor was saying in favor of tithing (more like commanding), "What other agency lets you keep 90% of you income." This is a blatant falsehood. As Americans (I'm not sure about the tax systems of other countries) we are taxed to death, so 10% is a lot to keep when compared to how much we actually get to keep after taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaraOlive Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 When I was getting divorced, it took a while to get our joint bank account separated. My ex-husband told me that if I didn't agree to let him keep tithing on the money from my direct deposit, he would tell my parents that I was refusing to tithe so that I would lose the support of my family while I was going through the hardest time of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobbler Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I've actual met people who will debate you on whether the 10% applies to the gross or the net on your paycheck. We paid on the gross. That was implied from the pulpit. Felt like you were robbing god if you didn't. Christianity is so insane! Fucking mind virus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This one I didn't fall for. Couldn't see why god needed money to do anything. When i first heard George Carlin's rant on this....I was sitting on the couch watching tv and nodding furiously while laughing....SOMEONE felt like I did! Now...I just googled this question...but I really did not get any clear satisfactory answers. I know churches are tax-exempt (fuckers). But where does their money come from? Honestly? The answers I got when I googled, just don't cut the mustard. I don't buy that 50 or so folks giving 10% every sunday can cover all the church bills, maintenence fees, events, and of course pay the guy boring everyone to death. There has to be a regular reliable source of income. The math just doesn't work for me....even when I assume an average of 50 regular attendees making $500 a week, and giving $50 each sunday....comes out to only $2500 a month in tithe money. It cannot pay both the maintenence fees AND church employee wages...it just can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This one I didn't fall for. Couldn't see why god needed money to do anything. When i first heard George Carlin's rant on this....I was sitting on the couch watching tv and nodding furiously while laughing....SOMEONE felt like I did! Now...I just googled this question...but I really did not get any clear satisfactory answers. I know churches are tax-exempt (fuckers). But where does their money come from? Honestly? The answers I got when I googled, just don't cut the mustard. I don't buy that 50 or so folks giving 10% every sunday can cover all the church bills, maintenence fees, events, and of course pay the guy boring everyone to death. There has to be a regular reliable source of income. The math just doesn't work for me....even when I assume an average of 50 regular attendees making $500 a week, and giving $50 each sunday....comes out to only $2500 a month in tithe money. It cannot pay both the maintenence fees AND church employee wages...it just can't. But you didn't account for the wealthy. Trust me, I've seen it. In my former church, there were people who gave tens of thousands of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 But you didn't account for the wealthy. Trust me, I've seen it. In my former church, there were people who gave tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, I used to count the money out of the plate. I would see large amounts sometimes. There are also bequests from wills. One rich person dies, the church could get hundreds of thousands. With the exception of those few who feed the homeless, I say Churches = leeches on society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 13, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2009 The math just doesn't work for me....even when I assume an average of 50 regular attendees making $500 a week, and giving $50 each sunday....comes out to only $2500 a month in tithe money. That's $10,000 per month. In addition there are others giving lesser amounts, "love offerings" and special purpose collections and building funds. Also, there are no taxes paid by the church on that income, so even small churches are doing a lot better than other businesses that offer real products and services. Decent sized churches also make investments with their capital, generating even more income. What a racket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I used to think we should tax churches, but then I changed my mind. That would give them more ammunition to try and impose themselves on public policy. Jeez, we don't need any more of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I used to give what I could, when I could. This was usually just a few dollars here and there. My wife, on the other hand, before we met handed out tons and tons of cash as I discovered (to retards like Gene Scott) and gave out far more than I ever did after we married (though we were attending church far less frequently so it wasn't so painful). I know that, in addition to what others have said, that what you see in the plate isn't all the money a church gets. All those old folks that can't come each week, well, the good pastor is out visiting with them. Helping them get through their ailments. He's also milking that cow for all it's worth. Those old people are still tithing away from the comfort of their sick/death-beds. Nothing stops the buzzards from circling. Ever. Seriously, if you're "down on your luck" and they give you a hand out. The second you're able they'll want a pay-back. You got some free soup in the soup line? How about you hand out soup for others, for free, in that same soup line? Forever. Same with everything else. Someone prayed for you? How about you go down and haul something for free? Or lift something? Or do whatever they say when they say it all for free? Plus give money. Free labor. Plus tithes from every direction. Plus "sales" (bake, yard, youth group, car wash, "carnivals," etc.). Plus no taxes. Plus government "faith based initiatives." All add up to plenty of income for churches that know how to work the system. Oddly enough "god" doesn't drop precious metals from the above or oil wells from below for his faithful. Nope. They have to rely on the same old tricks everyone else has to. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I am getting more steamed as I think about this guilt trip deal. While we were all worried about making our tithe, because God might be mad at us, what we all didn't realize, because the church isn't telling us, is that this old guy who died three months ago left the church $500,000 in his will. Yeah, sure they may eventually get around to revealing this information at the big annual business meeting, but they can work on putting a spin on it; and until then they can continue to plead that the church is going under and God will bless you if you can give until it hurts. I work in legal profession in probate. I have sent out literally millions of dollars to churches and missionary societies. Bequests from wills and trusts. I can tell you this, these religious organizations have attorneys who jump right on it as soon as they know about the will. They won't settle for a penny less. They are on the case, and on the phone to the estate's attorney, to make sure they get what's coming to them ASAP. I support the right of people to do whatever they want with their money, but it makes me sick as much or more than the greedy, rapacious relatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsy79 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I know that, in addition to what others have said, that what you see in the plate isn't all the money a church gets. All those old folks that can't come each week, well, the good pastor is out visiting with them. Helping them get through their ailments. He's also milking that cow for all it's worth. Those old people are still tithing away from the comfort of their sick/death-beds. Nothing stops the buzzards from circling. Ever. Isn't that the truth. My ailing grandparents have been too sick to go to church in a long time, but when I balanced their checkbook for them last month, I still saw huge checks to the church. Granted, the church does help them. Available to drive them to the hospital or store and the pastor comes by on the weekends to check on them since they really shouldn't be alone (they live very far away from the rest of the family and won't move). People from the church have seen them through countless hospitalizations, driving them to see each other at the hospital an hour away and bringing them food since they can't cook for themselves anymore, etc. So, maybe it's worth it for that. Still it bothers me. I guess I wish they would just hire someone to do those things instead of making it this weird game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazycatlady Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I tithed regularly from age 12-18.5. I just calculated out that if I saved that money for college, I wouldn't have needed to take out a student loan this semester. I am seriously pissed right now. I should go look for a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The math just doesn't work for me....even when I assume an average of 50 regular attendees making $500 a week, and giving $50 each sunday....comes out to only $2500 a month in tithe money. That's $10,000 per month. I'm...an...idiot!! $2500 per week!! I actually forgot to x4!! I suppose a church could do good, if they had a wealthy patron die and leave them $$$ every five years.... and then there is the FREE SKILLED labor they can finegle out of attendees! But the church I grew up in did not have wealthy members. And it seemed from listening...a lot of money seemed to be a sort of trickle down from the organization that ran everything for all the churches of the same denomination. The bigger churches making bigger money helped the little churches of the same denomination. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 OMG, Devalight! You opened up a can of worms! As an SDA teacher, I was required to tithe. Plus there was an offering in addition, even on my shitty salary working 6-7 days per week. If only I remained catholic! My parents converted (though they are quite liberal), and recently retired with no pension; only investments. The SDA church of Assholiness wanted him to tithe (even though he has a small income without a job) in order to remain a deacon. I told him to forget the tithe, and he agreed. So they relieved him of his services. He was upset alright!! Tithing is just an excuse to fleece the flock. BAH!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 If only I remained catholic! I understand the Catholic Church recently began giving indulgences again. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/nyregion...ulgence.html?em I wonder how long it will be before they start charging money for them? I'm just waiting with baited breath. Mark my words, they will start selling salvation again, just like in the days of Martin Luther. Its only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 If only I remained catholic! I understand the Catholic Church recently began giving indulgences again. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/nyregion...ulgence.html?em I wonder how long it will be before they start charging money for them? I'm just waiting with baited breath. Mark my words, they will start selling salvation again, just like in the days of Martin Luther. Its only a matter of time. How much is a round trip to heaven going to go for? Or will it be one way;a staircase to heaven via the popemobile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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