LastKing Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have been reading my last couple of post and taking some time to think. Maby this is not the right way to get past what happen to us. I am no doudt angery over it (I think all the topics I have posted show that) but I dont think this is helping me. I think its time for me to forgive the people who hurt me. Now dont get me wrong, I am not forgetting it but holding on to this gurdge is not making life any better for myself. I am afaird that by holding on to the grudge that at some point I will lash out on people who had nothing to do with my own fueds or that some how my own anger could effect people who are inportaint me. Like it or not there are people in my life I do really love who are Christians. I guess I was starting to have this idea of getting pay back, revenge, Justice ect. but I think I am the one who I am hurting now. In a strange way I am kinda letting them win by letting them take my peace of mind and at times I wonder if I have only become another Fundy. So from this point on I am going to try to put it all behind me and move forward with the only life I have why I still got it. Just rambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 19, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted February 19, 2009 Forgiving others is for your benefit, not theirs. You're right - time to move on and live for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowabunga Jones Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 In a way, being angry and frustrated with Christianity serves their delusion more than it serves your own life. Its is unfair, but when ExChristians show anger and frustration at the church/faith Christians will automatically label us as being "manipulated by the Devil" or "unreasonable and irrational". Instead, if we simply walk away calmly and live happy normal lives, it takes the spiritual wind right out of their sails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 It comes with time, my friend. Today, at school, there were some Christians with tables handing out New Testaments, and I just smiled and said: no thanks. No arguments. No anger. I didn't feel any frustration or such, I actually thought they had the right, because of free speech. Doesn't that make you happy, Yoyo, Freeday, and the rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Imo, nothing in human personality and response and awareness is constant; there are phases and stages that cycle in and out, somewhat altered from the last time they cropped up; and my only personal rule is to get and to give the most benefit from whatever phase in which I find myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaraOlive Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'm glad you've gotten to that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I am new here, so forgive me for butting in.... I am struggling with this very same thing. I just CANNOT bring myself to a place of forgiveness. I know I'm supposed to, I know it only hurts me....but I just can't do it. They STOLE half of my life!! And you know what...I still love several people from the church I was involved in....but I cannot and will not forgive them. Christians have done horrific things in my life all for nothing....one big lie. And then they leave you to sort the damn mess out...and the sorting out can take years. I cannot ever be as big of a person as you I guess as my rage consumes me when I think about this god of theirs. But kudos to you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I am new here, so forgive me for butting in.... I am struggling with this very same thing. I just CANNOT bring myself to a place of forgiveness. I know I'm supposed to, I know it only hurts me....but I just can't do it. They STOLE half of my life!! And you know what...I still love several people from the church I was involved in....but I cannot and will not forgive them. Christians have done horrific things in my life all for nothing....one big lie. And then they leave you to sort the damn mess out...and the sorting out can take years. I cannot ever be as big of a person as you I guess as my rage consumes me when I think about this god of theirs. But kudos to you..... Everyone is different. Everyone has experienced varying levels of impact from the cult. No one is going to experience recovery from it in the same way. And no one expects everyone to. There is no cookie-cutter solution to dealing with the stages. A little anger works for some, while some experience large amounts before settling down. And as I have mentioned many times elsewhere....anger in general is pissed on and treated like an accident in our culture. It is denied, repressed, "regulated", and generally treated as an abberration of the human condition (no wonder so many people don't deal with it well....we are not trained to deal with it at all!). It is NOT. It is as emotionally valid as happiness, but because happiness is acceptable, preferred even, no one comes up to you to suggest you have a serious issue when you smile about something. But express a little frustration....and real life culture rallies to express how "wrong" you are to feel that way. Anyone who tells you you have no "right" to be angry, is not someone you ever need to listen to. And this forum is a damn valuable place...a SAFE place to express extreme anger about a cultural matter than gets warm fuzzy treatment and undeserved respect in damn near every facet of our environment. This place is important for blowing off steam...better to rant your ass off HERE than to bottle it up and bottle it up until EXPLODING at Aunt Martha's dinner table over her offer to say grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess I feel like I owe them NOTHING. And I will not forgive them. My life is a complete mess because of their acts, their threats, their condemnation, their ADVICE, their damn god. How dare they screw with people as they do and then say bless you. I am new here, so forgive me for butting in.... I am struggling with this very same thing. I just CANNOT bring myself to a place of forgiveness. I know I'm supposed to, I know it only hurts me....but I just can't do it. They STOLE half of my life!! And you know what...I still love several people from the church I was involved in....but I cannot and will not forgive them. Christians have done horrific things in my life all for nothing....one big lie. And then they leave you to sort the damn mess out...and the sorting out can take years. I cannot ever be as big of a person as you I guess as my rage consumes me when I think about this god of theirs. But kudos to you..... Everyone is different. Everyone has experienced varying levels of impact from the cult. No one is going to experience recovery from it in the same way. And no one expects everyone to. There is no cookie-cutter solution to dealing with the stages. A little anger works for some, while some experience large amounts before settling down. And as I have mentioned many times elsewhere....anger in general is pissed on and treated like an accident in our culture. It is denied, repressed, "regulated", and generally treated as an abberration of the human condition (no wonder so many people don't deal with it well....we are not trained to deal with it at all!). It is NOT. It is as emotionally valid as happiness, but because happiness is acceptable, preferred even, no one comes up to you to suggest you have a serious issue when you smile about something. But express a little frustration....and real life culture rallies to express how "wrong" you are to feel that way. Anyone who tells you you have no "right" to be angry, is not someone you ever need to listen to. And this forum is a damn valuable place...a SAFE place to express extreme anger about a cultural matter than gets warm fuzzy treatment and undeserved respect in damn near every facet of our environment. This place is important for blowing off steam...better to rant your ass off HERE than to bottle it up and bottle it up until EXPLODING at Aunt Martha's dinner table over her offer to say grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess I feel like I owe them NOTHING. And I will not forgive them. My life is a complete mess because of their acts, their threats, their condemnation, their ADVICE, their damn god. How dare they screw with people as they do and then say bless you. You need not forgive them. Forgiveness is, in my opinion, part of "their" bag...along with evangelizing and the condemnation of others. I'm not dipping into "their" bag. As for my respect...that is earned. And if it's lost...then whoever lost it has to put effort into earning it back. And you certainly don't owe them anything either. In time, you may come to pity their close-mindedness and their own invisible prison...but if you have no need to forgive, then you have no need to forgive. Deconversion is not a quasi-religious 12 step program. It's more like the stages of grief. And no one can tell you how long you "ought" to be in each stage of grief recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thank you. How long did it take you to get through the grieving process? I have been on this journey out of the darkness, in stages, for about the last year. I thought I was over the anger part...but then that rage just surges back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thank you. How long did it take you to get through the grieving process? I have been on this journey out of the darkness, in stages, for about the last year. I thought I was over the anger part...but then that rage just surges back up. You will have occasional flare ups from time to time. But rarer and rarer will it be out of the blue. Eventually...the things that once set you off... become funny and ridiculous and of course you will have to share those incidents will us, so we can laugh with you. Same thing if you see something that just boils your head, share, and we can commiserate and seethe a little along with you. For me, finding this place went a long way towards relieving anger than I knew was building to worrisome levels. I think I was venting off for a few months after finding this place (religion had had a lifelong impact, but it was not as deep as many others on this board), if I hadn't found Ex-C? I would probably STILL be mad as a hornet after deconverting in 2001 with no safe legal outlets. At this point, I think I'm mostly beyond the need to rant obsessively about the cult for the most part. I accept my past for what it was, and I've moved emotionally beyond the reach of those people. Granted, I expect to have the occasional flare up...but no one here will be surprised or disappointed if I do. No one will consider me "back-slidden" or "at risk for re-dedicating to Krysst" if I do (that BS is part of "their" bag too...good riddance!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I do so hope you are right....my anger is worrisome at times too. I worry that I will never be able to let go of the anger because I gave them my baby. I have recently found her and she has serious issues as a result. I just want her to heal and I cannot say anything to her because she is as brainwashed as I ever was. Every single time I think about her my heart breaks and then fills with rage. I'm feeling pretty damn hateful toward christians and their horrible god. Why would ANYONE follow that god?!?!?!?! Thank you. How long did it take you to get through the grieving process? I have been on this journey out of the darkness, in stages, for about the last year. I thought I was over the anger part...but then that rage just surges back up. You will have occasional flare ups from time to time. But rarer and rarer will it be out of the blue. Eventually...the things that once set you off... become funny and ridiculous and of course you will have to share those incidents will us, so we can laugh with you. Same thing if you see something that just boils your head, share, and we can commiserate and seethe a little along with you. For me, finding this place went a long way towards relieving anger than I knew was building to worrisome levels. I think I was venting off for a few months after finding this place (religion had had a lifelong impact, but it was not as deep as many others on this board), if I hadn't found Ex-C? I would probably STILL be mad as a hornet after deconverting in 2001 with no safe legal outlets. At this point, I think I'm mostly beyond the need to rant obsessively about the cult for the most part. I accept my past for what it was, and I've moved emotionally beyond the reach of those people. Granted, I expect to have the occasional flare up...but no one here will be surprised or disappointed if I do. No one will consider me "back-slidden" or "at risk for re-dedicating to Krysst" if I do (that BS is part of "their" bag too...good riddance!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I do so hope you are right....my anger is worrisome at times too. I worry that I will never be able to let go of the anger because I gave them my baby. I have recently found her and she has serious issues as a result. I just want her to heal and I cannot say anything to her because she is as brainwashed as I ever was. Every single time I think about her my heart breaks and then fills with rage. I'm feeling pretty damn hateful toward christians and their horrible god. Why would ANYONE follow that god?!?!?!?! That is a hard road. You have my sympathies. The one thing you can do for your child that will mean more than you can imagine, is LOVE her. It will mean so much. Don't try to rip her out of the delusion (deconversion has to be a personal thing). Just be a living example of the peace and freedom (once you get their yourself) of abandoning the cult. If she wishes to know more, she will ask. But for now...just love...and listen...and love some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thank you...again. I do love her...as much as she lets me anyhow. She is bitter and angry about being given away...she was not an infant when she left so it was quite traumatic for us both. But who the hell was I to question god? When god told my pastor to let it be so....well at that point I didn't have many options....give her away or go to hell and take her with me. WTF kind of god works like that? Just pisses me off. Ok I will quit ranting now as this thread is about forgiveness....sorry for the intrusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thank you. How long did it take you to get through the grieving process? I have been on this journey out of the darkness, in stages, for about the last year. I thought I was over the anger part...but then that rage just surges back up. Oh, it takes time. Don't expect it to be gone in a year. A few years after I lost my faith, I was still pretty pissed. And it still occasionally flare up still. Especially when discussing on this board with some Christian who thinks they know everything. But it gets slowly better. I think it depends on how much you look into yourself, and why you feel certain things. And really, it's not about forgetting or even forgiving, but more about being able to let go of the emotional ties to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafutopia Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Everyone is different. Everyone has experienced varying levels of impact from the cult. No one is going to experience recovery from it in the same way. And no one expects everyone to. There is no cookie-cutter solution to dealing with the stages. A little anger works for some, while some experience large amounts before settling down. And as I have mentioned many times elsewhere....anger in general is pissed on and treated like an accident in our culture. It is denied, repressed, "regulated", and generally treated as an abberration of the human condition (no wonder so many people don't deal with it well....we are not trained to deal with it at all!). It is NOT. It is as emotionally valid as happiness, but because happiness is acceptable, preferred even, no one comes up to you to suggest you have a serious issue when you smile about something. But express a little frustration....and real life culture rallies to express how "wrong" you are to feel that way. Anyone who tells you you have no "right" to be angry, is not someone you ever need to listen to. And this forum is a damn valuable place...a SAFE place to express extreme anger about a cultural matter than gets warm fuzzy treatment and undeserved respect in damn near every facet of our environment. This place is important for blowing off steam...better to rant your ass off HERE than to bottle it up and bottle it up until EXPLODING at Aunt Martha's dinner table over her offer to say grace. {{hugs to all}} What a great post! Not really sure what the OP is asking, but if it means "Is it helping us to be here at ex-c.net, reading/participating here," I don't know about anybody else of course but it certainly is helping me -- what a comfort this place has been! Just to know I'm "not alone", and also what's great about this place is the wealth of information and source links. Just being able to "talk to" people who've been through the same thing, and have survived, and gained wisdom -- that's been a comfort and help also. As the years have passed, the anger has lessened, though now and then it seems to flare back up, triggered by something that's happening in real life or something I'm reading . But generally speaking, I feel hopeful that eventually I'll have more of a sense of peace and compassion for at least some of the fundies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Everyone is different. Everyone has experienced varying levels of impact from the cult. No one is going to experience recovery from it in the same way. And no one expects everyone to. There is no cookie-cutter solution to dealing with the stages. A little anger works for some, while some experience large amounts before settling down. And as I have mentioned many times elsewhere....anger in general is pissed on and treated like an accident in our culture. It is denied, repressed, "regulated", and generally treated as an abberration of the human condition (no wonder so many people don't deal with it well....we are not trained to deal with it at all!). It is NOT. It is as emotionally valid as happiness, but because happiness is acceptable, preferred even, no one comes up to you to suggest you have a serious issue when you smile about something. But express a little frustration....and real life culture rallies to express how "wrong" you are to feel that way. Anyone who tells you you have no "right" to be angry, is not someone you ever need to listen to. And this forum is a damn valuable place...a SAFE place to express extreme anger about a cultural matter than gets warm fuzzy treatment and undeserved respect in damn near every facet of our environment. This place is important for blowing off steam...better to rant your ass off HERE than to bottle it up and bottle it up until EXPLODING at Aunt Martha's dinner table over her offer to say grace. {{hugs to all}} What a great post! Not really sure what the OP is asking, but if it means "Is it helping us to be here at ex-c.net, reading/participating here," I don't know about anybody else of course but it certainly is helping me -- what a comfort this place has been! Just to know I'm "not alone", and also what's great about this place is the wealth of information and source links. Just being able to "talk to" people who've been through the same thing, and have survived, and gained wisdom -- that's been a comfort and help also. As the years have passed, the anger has lessened, though now and then it seems to flare back up, triggered by something that's happening in real life or something I'm reading . But generally speaking, I feel hopeful that eventually I'll have more of a sense of peace and compassion for at least some of the fundies. I don't think I can ever have compassion for them.....they stole 20 years and my child from me. Sometimes I wish there was a hell just for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Sometimes I wish there was a hell just for them! You don't have to wish. The hell they created for "everyone else" is the one that keeps them awake nights fearing they've not personally "done enough" to avoid themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Sometimes I wish there was a hell just for them! You don't have to wish. The hell they created for "everyone else" is the one that keeps them awake nights fearing they've not personally "done enough" to avoid themselves. Funny you say that because I often hope they lay awake in bed worried for their own soul...full of uncertainty and fear like the rest of us have had to. I hope they feel some pain in their soul daily...I really am not an evil person....I am just so f'ing angry and I want to see them suffer even just half the loss I have suffered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have been reading my last couple of post and taking some time to think. Maby this is not the right way to get past what happen to us. I am no doudt angery over it (I think all the topics I have posted show that) but I dont think this is helping me. It's good to reflect. I think its time for me to forgive the people who hurt me. Now dont get me wrong, I am not forgetting it but holding on to this gurdge is not making life any better for myself. I am afaird that by holding on to the grudge that at some point I will lash out on people who had nothing to do with my own fueds or that some how my own anger could effect people who are inportaint me. Like it or not there are people in my life I do really love who are Christians. Many, if not most, of us have xians in our lives. I guess I was starting to have this idea of getting pay back, revenge, Justice ect. but I think I am the one who I am hurting now. In a strange way I am kinda letting them win by letting them take my peace of mind and at times I wonder if I have only become another Fundy. So from this point on I am going to try to put it all behind me and move forward with the only life I have why I still got it. That may be a good idea. I don't think anyone really objects to any of this beyond the "us" part. Do what works for you. Obviously your post was meant to help so I can't fault you for that but realize that others were affected differently and will need to take a different path to get over their hurt. I've just seen a good many of these types of threads devolve to a place where the OP never intended so I thought I'd chime in so that hopefully didn't happen. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafutopia Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I don't think I can ever have compassion for them.....they stole 20 years and my child from me. Sometimes I wish there was a hell just for them! {{hugs}} I replied before reading your post about your child That is so heart breaking as to be unbearable. Sincere sympathies, and sending good thoughts as you and your daughter move forward in life together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker630 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Thank you. How long did it take you to get through the grieving process? I have been on this journey out of the darkness, in stages, for about the last year. I thought I was over the anger part...but then that rage just surges back up. I know your post wasn't directed to me, but I'll chime in anyway. I'm 59 years old. Raised very strict Roman Catholic. My deconversion, although I didn't call it that, started when I was 16 or 17 years old. Piece by piece, over the ensuing years the doctrines and dogmas of the church became increasingly absurd to me. Finally I openly admitted to being atheistic to a friend of mine about 12 years ago or so. The anger still wells up inside me whenever I read about some stupid CSS issue in the news. But on the family side I've been lucky. I've never lost a relative or a friend over it yet. They simply accept the fact that I'm not a believer any more and let it be. But then it's different at my age than it would have been had I declared myself an atheist at 17 or something. About the closest any of them have come to trying to get me back are a couple of cousins I haven't seen in years send me a "prayer card" from some Catholic organization they belong to, hoping for my "return to the mother church". It went into the recycling bin and I never responded to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Anyone who tells you you have no "right" to be angry, is not someone you ever need to listen to. And this forum is a damn valuable place...a SAFE place to express extreme anger about a cultural matter than gets warm fuzzy treatment and undeserved respect in damn near every facet of our environment. This place is important for blowing off steam...better to rant your ass off HERE than to bottle it up and bottle it up until EXPLODING at Aunt Martha's dinner table over her offer to say grace. Have to agree with White Raven here. It is far better to vent in a safe place, than to have the straw that breaks the camel's back where you'll wind up regretting it. Expressing anger is much more emotionally healthy than holding it in and waiting for the lid to blow. Other things that help with anger: Exercise. Get a stress ball and take out all your frustration on it. Do something creative, like painting, writing, or making music. Even cooking can help, especially cooking from scratch. Choose whatever works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessicaSideways Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Everyone is different. Everyone has experienced varying levels of impact from the cult. No one is going to experience recovery from it in the same way. And no one expects everyone to. There is no cookie-cutter solution to dealing with the stages. A little anger works for some, while some experience large amounts before settling down. True. Very, very true. Some ex-Xians want to let things be and live the way they have lived before they joined the cult. Some people, like me, have invested their time, money, energy and soul into the cult and would take great pleasure from seeing it's downfall, or at least to cripple it. I take great measure to annoy Xians when I can, especially when I debate with Xian groups around campus and they dance around the truth. I don't work for their benefit, since I know that it's amazingly hard to come out of the cult, but I work to show others how big of a cult Xianity really is. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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