Abiyoyo Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Thus, my question: what are the group's thoughts about this? I like the Gnostic version of God. And I asked to know it, and he said to me, "The Monad is a monarchy with nothing above it. It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look. "He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name. "He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior. Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 ... If, for the sake of argument, someone could prove absolutely that the Biblical God existed exactly as stated in the Bible and operated more or less in the way that mainstream evangelicals think he operated, would you then be a Christian? Or is it the empricial/scientific stuff that gets you? If bible god was real, then Satan would be real, too. In that case, I'd become a Satanist because he never hurt anyone except when acting under god's order, and all Satan did on his own was to challenge others to live up to their potential instead of being slaves, so I sort of admire the guy. Also, Satan could use all the help he could get to put down that evil god of the bible, so I think it would be our duty as free-thinking humans to enlist in Satan's army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 I just want to say think this is a fantastic thread. Even if hell were real, we still wouldn't worship. That's true heroism. I agree, it would be noble to suffer under such circumstances. You'd be with Socrates and Gandhi and the like. Better to suffer injustice than to participate in it. That seems to be the lesson of the past century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I agree, it would be noble to suffer under such circumstances. You'd be with Socrates and Gandhi and the like. Better to suffer injustice than to participate in it. That seems to be the lesson of the past century.And don't they say that all the most interesting people are in hell? Who wants to spend an eternity in church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I agree, it would be noble to suffer under such circumstances. You'd be with Socrates and Gandhi and the like. Better to suffer injustice than to participate in it. That seems to be the lesson of the past century.And don't they say that all the most interesting people are in hell? Who wants to spend an eternity in church? Indeed Neon, indeed. Here's a slightly digressing thought.. What if it was all a bait and switch? What if hell wasn't the horrible torture chamber we were warned about and it was something like earth? The number of decent folk who just didn't get "saved" would vastly outnumber the truly evil ones, and they could probably have reformed them after a long enough time by peer pressure. Maybe heaven is the true "hell" because the christians are trapped kissing Yahweh's ass for eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thus, my question: what are the group's thoughts about this? I like the Gnostic version of God. And I asked to know it, and he said to me, "The Monad is a monarchy with nothing above it. It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look. "He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name. "He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior. Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light. YoYo, you and I don't agree on much, but I have to say I quite like this version of the divine.(Though I think "he" could interact with us quite easily owing to being beyond all concepts.) Absolutely limitless. The big beef I have against christianity is how it makes God out to be a mean spirited thug who demands worship me or burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 ... I've been using Mother of God Condoms. Jeff if you weren't going to hell before ... Heh heh heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I think that could actually be a pretty tough question. Assuming the bible were 100% true it would still be pretty tough to figure out. The OT/NT god, at least as portrayed in the book, to us, would still come off as having multiple personalities. And I would have to believe that (appearances aside based on what is quite graphically spelled out in the bible about god's vindictive sadism) that I, and everyone else on the planet, were all so feeble minded that we could not understand that nature of god and his supposed "love" as well as any concept of justice because god's infinite knowledge/wisdom was so far above us. I guess I'd kind of have to cherry pick to conclude that this monster is actually a god of pure and infinite love, just like xians try to do with their mythological god. At least I <i>think</i> I might wrestle with these things if I somehow, magically had some way of knowing for sure that the bible was 100% true. Or I would if I had never deconverted. Now that I've already dared to think, I believe it would very tough to handle, digest and process the whole thing if I were somehow hypothetically presented with incontrovertible proof of the biblegod's existence and the infallibility of the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane of the Jungle Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thus, my question: what are the group's thoughts about this? If, for the sake of argument, someone could prove absolutely that the Biblical God existed exactly as stated in the Bible and operated more or less in the way that mainstream evangelicals think he operated, would you then be a Christian? Or is it the empricial/scientific stuff that gets you? Shantonu I understand you want to test peoples feelings about this but, if if if if doesnt work for me anymore, I dont even want to strain my brain by the thought of if or maybe on this xtianity or Bible exists, because that is and was the main reason why we all were caught up in religious crap, thinking unrealistic! For me now, it is all the same, if you asked me if the Bible were true or what would I do if budha exists. People living in their own bubble! I dont really care, I know I didnt make an instant decision about things, not living in a dreamworld now and extremely happy that I dont have to carry around the burdon of hell and heaven anymore. This alone, make me a happier person than Ive eva been! Haleluuuuuuuuuuuya hehehe! Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I would really like to see them prove to me that the stories concerning unicorns, satyrs, fauns, cockatrices, talking mules and the one and only talking snake are true and without error. Christians claim the talking snake was Satan disguised or possessing a snake when it spoke to Eve, others claim people used to talk to the animals just like Dr. Dolittle. If these things are true, then we can give thanks to Lucifer for giving us intelligence, whereas God wants to dumb us down. I couldn't accept a God that acts worse sober than I do when hungover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 If everything in the Bible is 100% true and the word of God Almighty, I deserve to be stoned to death multiple times and my soul cast into the fires of hell. Honestly, I'm OK with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shantonu Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 I think that could actually be a pretty tough question. Assuming the bible were 100% true it would still be pretty tough to figure out. At least I <i>think</i> I might wrestle with these things if I somehow, magically had some way of knowing for sure that the bible was 100% true. Or I would if I had never deconverted. Now that I've already dared to think, I believe it would very tough to handle, digest and process the whole thing if I were somehow hypothetically presented with incontrovertible proof of the biblegod's existence and the infallibility of the bible. Right. It would take a lot of strength to say, I know I am going to suffer for this but I'm going to do it anyway--I'm going to reject worshiping God and let the chips fall where they may. I hope I would have the courage to do this. But maybe I would not. I wonder if I were in a foxhole if would revert to my theistic tendencies. I wonder if I've unlearned enough not to react according to my Catholic upbringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Another thing to consider, the biblegod is awfully fickle. He's already cast a bunch of his angels into hell--for eternity. He has a terrible temper, gets pissed off at the drop of a hat, and easy as it may be to fall out of his good graces, he holds a grudge forever. And perfect and infallible as he may be, he is really easy to goad into doing things like killing all your children and generally causing devastation. Oh, and with the biblegod it seems that no collateral damage is unjustified when it comes time to dole out vengence. If I did get proof that the biblegod existed, I think I'd also have to be pretty concerned about my eternal future even if I were to devote my entire existence to kissing his butt, and the tragic future for the whole of humanity would be horrifying beyond imagination. It's hard to imagine that his followers would last eternity without pissing him off somehow. You're right, it would be really distasteful to serve such a being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Methoxy Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Bible God is bipolar and probably could benefit from a prescription for Paxil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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