Guest RougeWolf22 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I am a ex-christian without a real religion to fill the void, but instead of filling it with any current religion I come to a belief that embaces a logical explanation to both the afterlife and meaning to life on earth. I have no real believes but I have eyes, ears, and thoughts totally of my own. I would like to share some of those beliefs with others and hear about others belief that don't follow the norm. Some of my believes I have include partial reincarnation basic on eastern beliefs with the law of thermodynamics (energy can not be destroyed or created a long with energy conversion is never a 100%) and the theory that relates heaven and hell to polar north and south(positive karma attracts it's self to heaven and negative karma attracts it's self to hell) it doesn't include the belief that you need to even need to believe in god or Jesus to go to heaven just be a good person. I also have a few beliefs about Jesus that I won't get into right now, cause frankly it's long then I wish to get into right now. So in short I wish to read and be read, beliefs that think outside of the normal one. I'm hoping to learn much before I find out what truly lies beyond this life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 3, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted April 3, 2009 Hello, RougeWolf22! (Rogue?) A lot of folks seem to kind of aimlessly search for some remnant of a spirit world and immortality after realizing that Christianity is baseless. Go ahead and make up anything you like - that's what the Christians do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looking4Answers Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I come to a belief that embaces a logical explanation I'm waiting for the logical explanation ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 I gotta say, the afterlife not being real kinda sucks. I mean, those Muslims got it all figured out. If I could be convinced that Paradise is 100% real, I'd grow my beard long and be on the next flight to northwest Pakistan, with a death wish. Spending the rest of eternity living it up like Hugh Hefner? Sign me the fuck up!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RougeWolf22 Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Hello, RougeWolf22! (Rogue?) A lot of folks seem to kind of aimlessly search for some remnant of a spirit world and immortality after realizing that Christianity is baseless. Go ahead and make up anything you like - that's what the Christians do. Yes the name is a misspelling of Rogue but rouge is a shade of red, a color I'm fond of, and as for my beliefs they are not baseless(neither is Christian for that matter of a fact. It's just a hand pick sections of stories that's tailored to suit the needs of the partially branch that they belong to). They are formed after much thought and if it in fact became a religion(heaven forbit it), it would be one that embaced, how should I say it a scientists approach, which in some peoples mind might be senseless. These hypothesis(s) are simply introduced to people so that they could keep an open mind and maybe not feel so alone in this crazy(religion fevered) world. But I'm an idealist, and could only hope that if such a thing became popular wouldn't be just a tool to be used to control other minds as current religions seem to do. A faith that is truly baseless as you said, but given shape by alterative hypothesises that gives hope to other wiseless hopeless people. But then again maybe I'm just doing this to voice my own crazy beliefs of the possible shape of God and the afterlife may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 8, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2009 Sorry, Rouge. I just don't understand (and it's not just you) how people can hold beliefs they just made up. When people say things such as "I think reincarnation is true" I ask why they think that. The common answer is that "just do." If somebody tells me they believe in angels, I ask why they believe that. Again, no reason. The real answer would be simply that they feel better with their fantasy in place. I just can't see the value in belief without good reason. The complexity and wonder of the real world is enough to keep anyone in awe for a lifetime, I should think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 .. and as for my beliefs they are not baseless(neither is Christian for that matter of a fact. It's just a hand pick sections of stories that's tailored to suit the needs of the partially branch that they belong to). They are formed after much thought and if it in fact became a religion(heaven forbit it), it would be one that embaced, how should I say it a scientists approach, which in some peoples mind might be senseless. These hypothesis(s) are simply introduced to people so that they could keep an open mind and maybe not feel so alone in this crazy(religion fevered) world. But I'm an idealist, and could only hope that if such a thing became popular wouldn't be just a tool to be used to control other minds as current religions seem to do. A faith that is truly baseless as you said, but given shape by alterative hypothesises that gives hope to other wiseless hopeless people.But then again maybe I'm just doing this to voice my own crazy beliefs of the possible shape of God and the afterlife may have. Sounds good to me RougeWolf, all my best to you, and your continuing search. I wouldn't call it crazy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 I'm always a bit leary of people trying to use physics to explain the concept of reincarnation. What exactly do you mean by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RougeWolf22 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'm always a bit leary of people trying to use physics to explain the concept of reincarnation. What exactly do you mean by that? Why are you 'leary' of people trying to use phyics to explain the concept of reincarnation? Why do people think that we will never be able to explain what happens to after death through science? If we can apply it to every life, why can we apply it to every day death. I'm not one for believing in magic, God or the afterlife doesn't run on pixie juice, if its like anything in this world it has principles, rules, that govern it. After all we know so little about the brain, the core of all consciousness, or in other words the soul. If you wish to argue with me on this or want me to expanse on this subject please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 13, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2009 Why do people think that we will never be able to explain what happens to after death through science? It HAS been explained. The woo-woo people just don't accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 After all we know so little about the brain, the core of all consciousness, or in other words the soul. If you wish to argue with me on this or want me to expanse on this subject please let me know. That is very true. Science has no complete explanation yet of consciousness, much less what happens to it after death (yes, I am a woo-woo person). I don't think the present scientific methods, which are also products of consciousness, can address this problem. Yet, science in principal may be one day able to discover it. We don't have a grand unifying theory yet in physics that explains everything. In fact, it seems that new mysteries, such as dark matter for example, keep emerging. Very few people understand quantum physics, including myself. That is why I am leery when people start talking about quantum theory as a way to support theories of life after death. I just question their understanding of physics, not that it doesn't in some way bear upon the question of life after death. On the other hand, I think there is a ton of circumstantial, not reproducible in the laboratory-type of evidence to support reincarnation. Is it the same kind of reproducible, true for all time principals as Newton's laws - hell no, but I am not going to dismiss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker630 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Why are you 'leary' of people trying to use phyics to explain the concept of reincarnation? Why do people think that we will never be able to explain what happens to after death through science? If we can apply it to every life, why can we apply it to every day death. I'm not one for believing in magic, God or the afterlife doesn't run on pixie juice, if its like anything in this world it has principles, rules, that govern it. After all we know so little about the brain, the core of all consciousness, or in other words the soul. If you wish to argue with me on this or want me to expanse on this subject please let me know. Is it safe to assume you are either deistic or maybe pantheistic then? In your posts you imply that you still believe in something called "God". You also seem to assume that there is an afterlife of some kind. What makes you thinks there is? If you think reincarnation is also real, ------------why? Also, why do you use the term "soul" to describe the brain function known as consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I belong to the Church of Don't-Give-A-Shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RougeWolf22 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Is it safe to assume you are either deistic or maybe pantheistic then? In your posts you imply that you still believe in something called "God". You also seem to assume that there is an afterlife of some kind. What makes you thinks there is? If you think reincarnation is also real, ------------why? Also, why do you use the term "soul" to describe the brain function known as consciousness? I'm neither, but I don't like to label myself... so call me what you wish. My belief of 'God' isn't very simply and I don't believe 'God' can be explain by me or anyone else, so I wouldn't bother to even begin to. But on the subject of afterlife I have much to say. To be honest I only use the world 'soul' because I was raised a Christian, I believe that whatever word for whatever we become after we die will be held together by our consciousness, or maybe should I say EGO. I've explained my theory on reincarnation once before, the first law of thermodym. is that energy can not be destory or created. In lu of this law I came to a conclusion that the energy that flows through our brain came from some where else, and why couldn't came from another brain? This fact doesn't support my theory, but other ideas of where that energy comes from seem even less likely then my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I guess I should expand. It's specifically the use of the conservation of mass (matter cannot be created or destroyed, PS - 2nd law is entropy, whole different thing). Alot of people take that and run with it to places it was never meant to go. The energy in our brain comes from the food we eat via the mitochondria. No mystery there. When we die all the energy in our body dissapates and becomes part of the ambient environment (mostly in the form of heat). My 2 cents. You can believe in reincarnation all you want, I just have issue with physics being applied incorrectly against the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 14, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted April 14, 2009 I just have issue with physics being applied incorrectly against the question. LOL!!!! That's what religions do - ignore or twist facts! Reality doesn't go well with religious thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker630 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 To be honest I only use the world 'soul' because I was raised a Christian, I believe that whatever word for whatever we become after we die will be held together by our consciousness, or maybe should I say EGO. I've explained my theory on reincarnation once before, the first law of thermodym. is that energy can not be destory or created. In lu of this law I came to a conclusion that the energy that flows through our brain came from some where else, and why couldn't came from another brain? This fact doesn't support my theory, but other ideas of where that energy comes from seem even less likely then my own. OK why do you assume, without any evidence, that anything generated by the physical brain had to come from some other place? I suppose I'll use Occam's Razor here----------everything we know so far about the human body and brain leads to the inescapable notion that our consciousness emanates from our brain. There is no reason to think otherwise. There is no evidence anywhere that some other cosmic brain someplace has anything to do with it, nor is there any evidence that such a thing can exist in reality. Why do you believe that it does? I mean if you could provide us with something a lot more solid, I could easily change my stance. But all you basically have said is that you believe it because you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'm always a bit leary of people trying to use physics to explain the concept of reincarnation. What exactly do you mean by that? Why are you 'leary' of people trying to use phyics to explain the concept of reincarnation? Why do people think that we will never be able to explain what happens to after death through science? If we can apply it to every life, why can we apply it to every day death. I'm not one for believing in magic, God or the afterlife doesn't run on pixie juice, if its like anything in this world it has principles, rules, that govern it. After all we know so little about the brain, the core of all consciousness, or in other words the soul. If you wish to argue with me on this or want me to expanse on this subject please let me know. How are you going to prove scientifically that there is life after death? You can't shoot a probe into the great hereafter and send back pictures. I believe that we are beings of energy. We burn energy while we are living, we give off energy when we exercise, and when we die we just don't get energetic any more. I believe that when we die that energy, call it a life force if you want, is given off. Energy can be converted but it does not die. Why not have that energy go into something else like a new life? Create a star? Why do we have to have a hereafter just because we lived at one time? Are we that important we have to come back to life as someone else through reincarnation? Go to heaven? I don't think so. If there is an after life, good for us. If there is no afterlife, good for us. Reincarnation I've heard of claims we come back every 2500 years. Why wait that long? Do you think there is a law of thermodynamics that regulates when and how energy is converted after death? And, into what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Rougewolf; Hoping for an afterlife is basically a hope-for-the-best-expect-the-next-to-worst deal.(By next to worst, I mean death is the cessation of existence. Worst would be finding out those fundie bastards were right.) I've pretty much adopted the idea that once I die, that's it,but if I find out I'm wrong I won't complain. When it all comes down to it, if you do believe in an afterlife, they shouldn't be beliefs that the world we live in is a "veil of tears", and we should look forward to the next life, at the expense of not enjoying this one to the fullest. If there is an afterlife, I look forward to having a loooooong chew the ectoplasmic fat with you good folks. Hoping it'll happen, but accepting of the fact it may not, Tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RougeWolf22 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I guess I should expand. It's specifically the use of the conservation of mass (matter cannot be created or destroyed, PS - 2nd law is entropy, whole different thing). Alot of people take that and run with it to places it was never meant to go. The energy in our brain comes from the food we eat via the mitochondria. No mystery there. When we die all the energy in our body dissapates and becomes part of the ambient environment (mostly in the form of heat). My 2 cents. You can believe in reincarnation all you want, I just have issue with physics being applied incorrectly against the question. Your absolutely right! Does that mean that I'm twisting the fact to support my beliefs? Yes is the answer to that. But do our thoughts change based on the food we eat, a little, different life styles and diet can chance the way we think. Even memories can change as we live our lifes. A lot of people argue that genetics and environment, and for the most part I argee with them. But for the most part we think the way we do, if you lost all your memories today, would you be the same person tommorrow. I say yes, if you like strawberries you would still like strawberries. Would you desire anything that you wouldn't with the memories? I say no, the only differents I belief between the two would be experience. And if you look at my first post you would see that I don't push for full reincarnation, but partial that take entropy into account. You want to say everything I'm saying is bullshit. Fine. Give me something more believable to work with. I know how nature works, our body is just wormfood, but I do not believe that ourconsciousness(Ego,soul,whatever make us think) can be converted into just heat so easily. What is my basical for this? Well her it is. Though I know my memories of this moment will not remain, I know that it will shape whatever I will become in the future. Again anyone please feel free to tell me your thoughts on what you thing with become of us after we die, I would truly like to hear thoughts other then the same bullshit they teach in Churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker630 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 but I do not believe that ourconsciousness(Ego,soul,whatever make us think) can be converted into just heat so easily. What is my basical for this? Well her it is. Though I know my memories of this moment will not remain, I know that it will shape whatever I will become in the future. Again anyone please feel free to tell me your thoughts on what you thing with become of us after we die, I would truly like to hear thoughts other then the same bullshit they teach in Churches. I don't think it's a BS question-------what I think is that you need to re-evaluate just why it is that you think that "you will become something in the future"----as in after death. There is no evidence of any "soul" surviving death. Is it just wishful thinking on your part? How do you "know" that you will become something after death? And exactly how do you know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 16, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2009 I know how nature works, our body is just wormfood, but I do not believe that ourconsciousness(Ego,soul,whatever make us think) can be converted into just heat so easily. What is my basical for this? Well her it is. Though I know my memories of this moment will not remain, I know that it will shape whatever I will become in the future. True, your thoughts, perceptions and memories of this moment do shape your future - as long as you're alive. After death, the brain tissue that is responsible for your thoughts ceases to exist. No working brain, no thought process. It is comforting to believe that you are more than just a mass of flesh, an eternal spirit who is just temporarily using this body - but there is no evidence pointing to that notion. Near death isn't death. Dreams, hallucinations and wishes aren't reality, though they may seem to be. Every bit of "evidence" that causes people to think they will continue forever as a conscious entity has been recreated in neuroscience labs. NDEs, OOBs, the light, the feeling of "oneness" and all the rest of it is the physical brain functioning or malfunctioning. All perception arises from observable physical brain function. It follows that a brain that can't function due to tissue death couldn't perceive or think anything. FTR, I wish I could believe in magic, but evidence always leads to reality and I just can't make myself deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 :whs: Couldn't have said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RougeWolf22 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 How are you going to prove scientifically that there is life after death? You can't shoot a probe into the great hereafter and send back pictures. I believe that we are beings of energy. We burn energy while we are living, we give off energy when we exercise, and when we die we just don't get energetic any more. I believe that when we die that energy, call it a life force if you want, is given off. Energy can be converted but it does not die. Why not have that energy go into something else like a new life? Create a star? Why do we have to have a hereafter just because we lived at one time? Are we that important we have to come back to life as someone else through reincarnation? Go to heaven? I don't think so. If there is an after life, good for us. If there is no afterlife, good for us. Reincarnation I've heard of claims we come back every 2500 years. Why wait that long? Do you think there is a law of thermodynamics that regulates when and how energy is converted after death? And, into what? I will prove nothing, that I know. Even if I'm right(I have made any solid claim that it is in fact is reincarntion or heaven) what good will it do here on earth. I just like to entertain the thought that just because there are religions that base their whole faith on myths, that all beliefs aren't absurd. To explore the different ideas that it could be. The only thing that can be proven is that we die and our body rots. And your right our energy could very well be used to create something else, like a new star, or to support our current one or into plants and animals of every kind. If enough human essences(and remain somewhat intact) collected in that star or core of the earth or another animal(humans included in that) would the collective or combine essence be enough to have some sort of reasoning(intelligent or whatever you want to call) to create a sort of afterlife. Now I don't claim that this is what happens, and frankly I BELIEVE that the energy that comes from the human mind, even after death, has more strength then that to be as random as that. This is just theory without a way to prove it, but then again until someone dies, or science advances leaps and bounds, this can not be disproved. I started this topic to state a theory of mine in hopes that someone else of former christian orgins would share their own(not mainstream) beliefs, instead I had to defend my own beliefs and theoretic applications. It's been quite interesting, and I'm hoping hear more from you ex-christians in the future to help shape my own personal beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RougeWolf22 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I mean to say, (I have not made any solid claim that it is in fact is reincarntion or heaven). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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