♦ ficino ♦ Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I, too, can vouch for this doctrine being taught to Christians. In Fundie Baptist/Presbyterian circles it is known as The Sin Of Being Good. It is a twisted, insidious doctrine that the church has been polishing ever since the days of the Reformation. Believers are absolutely convinced that being "good" is a sin, and an affront to "God". You must be REALLY fucked up in the head to understand/believe this doctrine. As I remember the Assemblies of God speaks in this way, too. The verse from Isaiah, "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags," used to be quoted a lot. One pastor said the Hebrew of "filthy rags" literally means "menstrous cloth," which is "tohel" (I think the word is), i.e. a religiously unclean object you cannot touch unless you're purified afterwards. Isn't it sweet how much the OT affirms nature? I am interested in seeing various Christians respond. Some do not believe one has the spirit until you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. They are in a predicament too, because according to the bible light/darkness cannot dwell together. As we all know there are many unbelievers who are good, loving and consistently display what the bible calls "fruits of the spirit", are they "evil" because they do not accept Jesus? For the fundamentalist, yes, we are indeed evil. In other more liberal Christianity, we don't need Jesus to be good. Amazing how "one" spirit can bring such a vast array of contradicting views within it's own sect, isn't it? Thankful, in re your original question, I think the Catholics tend to say that conscience is part of human nature. At the fall, the human race did not cease to be human. There are some good things left over. Even Satan is good in some respects: he exists, he has rationality, etc. Calvinists instead say that at the fall, the human race became totally depraved. To make up for this, God extended "common grace." So although after the fall, humans didn't even deserve to exist, God was nice enough to give common grace to keep them alive and enable even sinners to have some glimmers of happiness. Calvinists don't derive good things in sinners from human nature, which they say is totally corrupt, but from common grace. (I think this is semantic bullshitting, but that's the fun part of theology.) I think both traditions appeal to Romans I, where Paul says the nations are without excuse, because God's existence and attributes are visible from the things that have been made. It's also reasonable in light of the binary hell doctrine. And yeah, it is twisted. Vigile (I loved your account of life with your roommates all arguing and being close friends - you're right, AMericans can't handle that, most of the time!) -- what is the binary hell doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 If the Bible says that there are none that do good, and someone does good outside of Jesus, then the Bible would be wrong. I donated some clothes to charity after I had deconverted. And they weren't Christian t-shirts or anything, just regular clothes. The only "selfish" motive I had was getting rid of stuff that didn't fit me, and not wanting to just throw them out because they were still usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I donated some clothes to charity after I had deconverted. And they weren't Christian t-shirts or anything, just regular clothes. The only "selfish" motive I had was getting rid of stuff that didn't fit me, and not wanting to just throw them out because they were still usable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was Teh Ev1l!!!! You are so going to hell for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 That was Teh Ev1l!!!! You are so going to hell for that. Heh...I thought I was already going there for being an apostate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Heh...I thought I was already going there for being an apostate. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok... you get double-hell then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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