Atheism and Death

[Brother Jeff]

Atheism and Death: Why the atheist must face death with despair

By Dustin Shramek

 

From: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/atheism.html

 

The title of this paper may catch some off guard. You or someone you know might be an atheist and you feel as though you have no despair when contemplating your death. I don't doubt that there are many atheist that, in fact, have no despair over death. But, for the atheist to live without despair, they must do so inconsistently. In my paper, I will show why it is logically inconsistent for an atheist to live and face death with happiness.

 

To do this I want to present two major arguments. The first is from the theist point of view that life is meaningless without God and thus death is hopeless. This is derived from two of the world's top philosophers, William Lane Craig and Ravi Zacharias (both are theists). It should be noted that this argument will be supplemented with the thoughts of several respected atheistic philosophers so one does not think they are being biased.

 

The second part of the paper will show why death is a necessary evil within the atheistic world view. To demonstrate this I will be drawing from the works of a major contemporary, atheist philosopher, Thomas Nagel. Both arguments are convincing by themselves, but I hope to show that with the two of them together, it is even more compelling to believe that the atheist must face death with despair. I don't doubt that many atheist have been able to boldly face death without fear, but I do believe that they were being inconsistent in their world view.

 

Albert Camus said that death is philosophy's only problem. That is quite the statement. Not only is death a problem, but a it is a large one. Why is death such a problem for someone like Camus? He was an atheist and I will attempt to show that death is a problem for all atheists.

 

Atheism cannot offer any comfort in the face of death. You see, everything we do includes some kind of hope. However, what kind of hope can the atheist give in the face of death? One may say that death is the final freeing of all desires and thus is good. Or that one can have hope in death if they are suffering. These really are just false hopes that I hopefully will clearly show.

 

After the death of his friend, Arthur Hallam, Alfred, Lord Tennyson composed his poem, "In Memorium". This poem show the stuggle he had as he wrestled with grief and the question of what ultimate power manages the fate of man. It shows the struggle he had between his realization of the consequences of his choice between atheism and God. I will quote a lengthy excerpt to feel the full impact.

 

Thine are these orbs of light and shade

Thou madest Life in man and brute;

Thou madest death; and Lo, thy foot

Is on the skull which thou hast made.

 

Are God and Nature then at strife

That Nature lends such evil dreams?

So careful of the type she seems

So careless of the single life,...

 

"So careful of the type?" but no.

From scarped cliff and quarried stone

She cries a thousand types are gone;

I care for nothing, all shall go.

 

"Thou makest thine appeal to me

I bring to life, I bring to death;

The spirit does but mean the breath:

I know no more." And he, shall he,

 

Man her last work who seem'd so fair

Such splendid purpose in his eyes,

Who rolI'd the psalm to wintry skies,

Who built him fanes of fruitless prayers,

 

Who trusted God was love indeed

And love creation's final law--

Tho' Nature, red in tooth and claw

With ravine, shrieked against his creed-

 

Who loved, who suffer'd countless ills

Who battled for the True, the Just,

Be blown about the desert dust,

Or seal'd within the iron hills?

 

No more? A monster then, a dream.

A discord. Dragons of the prime

That tear each other in their slime,

Were mellow music match'd with him.

 

O life as futile, then, as frail!

O for thy voice to soothe and bless

What hope of answer, or redress?

Behind the veil, behind the veil.[1]

 

Atheism has parented this offspring, and it is her legitimate child--with no mind to look back to for his origin, no law to turn to for guidance, no meaning to cling to for life, and no hope for the future. This is the shattered visage of atheism. It has the stare of death, looking into the barren desert of emptiness and hopelessness. Thus, the Nietzschean dogma, which dawned with the lantern being smashed to the ground, now ends in the darkness of the grave.[2]

 

Is this true? Is there no hope in atheism? Is there no meaning in a world without God? William Lane Craig offers a resounding yes.

 

Craig argues that if God doesn't exist, then man and the universe are doomed to die. There is no hope of immortality. Our lives are but an infinitesimally small point that appears and then vanishes forever.

 

Jean-Paul Sartre affirmed that death is not-threatiening provided we view it in the third person. It isn't until we face the first person, "I am going to die, my death," that death becomes threatening. Most, though, never assume first person attitudes during their life. So the question arises, "Why is my death so threatening?"

 

This is because within an atheistic world view there can be no meaning or purpose. I'm sure that many will be quick to disagree with me because they are an atheist or know an atheist who does ascribe meaning and purpose to their lives. But is this consistent within the atheistic world view? I don't think so.

 

If everything is doomed to go out of existence, can there be any ultimate significance? If we are inevitably faced with nonexistence can our lives have any ultimate significance?

 

Influencing others or influencing history doesn't give your life ultimate significance. It only gives it relative significance. Your life is important relative to certain events, but there is no ultimate significance to those events if all will die. Ultimately, your life makes no difference.

 

Even the universe is doomed to die (due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics). So what ultimate difference would it make if the universe never came to exist at all if it is doomed to become dead?

 

Mankind is thus no more significant than a swarm of mosquitos or a barnyard of pigs, for their end is all the same. The same blind cosmic process that coughed them up in the first place will eventually swallow them all again.[3]

 

If one's destiny is the grave, what ultimate purpose is their for life? The same is true of the universe. If it is doomed to become a forever expanding pile of useless debris, what purpose is there for the universe? To what end is the world or man in existence? There can be no hope, no purpose.

 

What is true of mankind is true of individuals as well. So there can be no purpose in any individual's life. My life wouldn't be qualitatively different than the life of a dog. This thought is expressed by the writer of Ecclesiastes, "The fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All come from the dust and all return to the dust" (Ecc 3:19-20).

 

The universe and man are cosmic accidents. There is no reason for our existence. Man is a cosmic orphan.

 

Without God the universe is the result of a cosmic accident, a chance explosion. There is no reason for which it exist. As for man, he is a freak of nature--a blind product of matter plus time plus chance. Man is just a lump of slime that evolved into rationality. There is no more purpose in life for the human race than for a species of insect; for both are the result of the blind interaction of chance and necessity.[4]

 

If we are only cosmic accidents, how can there be any meaning in our lives? If this is true, which it is in an atheistic world view, our lives are for nothing. It would not matter in the slightest bit if I ever existed. This is why the atheist, if honest and consistent, must face death with despair. Their life is for nothing. Once they are gone, they are gone forever.

 

Friedrich Nietzsche admitted that with the end of Christianity comes nihilism, which is the "denial of the existence of any basis for knowledge or truth; the general rejection of customary beliefs in morality, religion, etc.; the belief that there is no meaning or purpose in existence." In "The Will to Power", Nietzsche says this,

 

What I relate is the history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently: the advent of nihilism.. ..Our whole European culture is moving for some time now, with a tortured tension that is growing form decade to decade, as toward a catastrophe: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end, that no longer reflects, that is afraid to reflect.[5]

 

Bertrand Russel, a famous atheistic philosopher, even admits that life is purposeless. I quote him at length,

 

That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man's achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins--all these things, if not quite beyound dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul's habitation henceforth be safely built.[6]

 

"Only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair,"? What can be placed on such a foundation?

 

Even Jean-Paul Sartre affirms the absurdity of life when he says, "Being is without reason, without cause, and without necessity. The very definition of being release its original contingency to us."[7]

 

Three of the most important atheistic philosophers, Nietzsche, Russell, and Sartre, all admitted that apart from God life is meaningless and absurd. So how do people live happily with this world view? They live inconsistently. For if one lives consistently, he is unable to live happily

 

Francis Schaeffer illustrates this problem well. He says that we live in a two stroy universe. On the first story the world is finite without God. This is what Sartre, Russell, and Nietzsche describe. Life here is absurd, with no meaning or purpose. On the second story life has meaning, value, and purpose. This is the story with God. Modern man resides on the first floor because he believes there is no God. But as we have shown, he cannot live there happily, so he makes a leap of faith to the second story where there is meaning and purpose. The problem is that this leap is unjustified because of his disbelief in God. Man cannot live consistently and happily knowing life is meaningless.

 

Of course, atheists don't want to live in this kind of a predicament so they attempt to ascribe meaning to life and value to death. Walter Kaufmann does this in his book, Existentialism. Religion. and Death. The last chapter is entitled, "Death Without Dread". He quotes several poems from a span of 150 years by poets from many different countries. He shows that death is commonly viewed without fear and he hypothesizes that death is only feared as a result of the impact of Christianity on culture. One of the poems quoted is by Matthias Claudius (1740-1815), it is entitled "Death and the Maiden," and was eventually set to music by Franz Schubert.

 

Death and the Maiden

 

The maiden:

Oh, go away, please go,

Wild monster, made of bone!

I am still young; Oh, no!

Oh, please leave me alone!

 

Death:

Give me your hand, my fair and lovely child!

A friend I am and bring no harm.

Be of good cheer, I am not wild,

You shalt sleep gently in my arm.[8]

 

 

He goes on to quote Nietzsche from Twilight of the Idols, "To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death freely chosen, death at the right time, brightly and cheerfully accomplished amid children and witnesses."[9]

 

Nietzsche saw death as the ultimate liberation. He even emphasises the desire he has to freely choose when he dies. Kaufmann affirms this when he says, "We should also give up the unseemly Christian teachings about suicide and accept it as a dignified and decent way of ending our lives."[10]

 

When Sartre, who agreed with Nietzsche, was asked why he didn't commit suicide, he replied by saying that he didn't want to use his freedom to take away his freedom. This is an absurd solution though, because they say that freedom is the problem with its aimlessness, pain, and despair.

 

Kaufmann argues that if we live life richly and not expect to live long lives then when we die we can combat the hopelessness of death because we won't feel cheated or won't feel as though we need more time. The problem lies in the fact thay kaufmann makes the jump to the second story. He wants to ascribe meaning to a richly lived life, which I've shown can't be done in a God-less universe. When he says that one won't feel as though they've been deprived of time when they die is wishful thinking. One of his contemporaries, Thomas Nagel (an atheist) shows the falsity in this thinking.

 

Nagel begins his discussion of death with this statement, "If death is the unequivocal and permanent end of our existence, the question arises whether it is a bad thing to die."[11]

 

He argues that if life is all we have, then its loss is the greatest loss we can encounter. Nagel's goal is to see whether death is in itself an evil, how great of an evil it is, and what kind of evil it is.

 

If death is an evil, it is because of the loss of life and not the state of being dead, or nonexistant. Some say that dying is the the real evil. But Nagel points out that he wouldn't really object to dying if it wasn't followed by death. He says,

 

If we are to make sense of the view that to die is bad, it must be on the ground that life is a good and death is the corresponding deprivation or loss, bad not because of any positive features but because of the desirability of what it removes.[12]

 

There are three objections that many have raised about the proposition that death is an evil. 1) One may doubt that there are any evils which solely consist in the deprivation or absence of possible good, particularly when one doesn't mind the deprivation (because they don't exist). What you don't know, can't hurt you. 2) How is the supposed misfortune assigned to the subject? So long as one exists, he isn't dead, and once he dies he no longer exist. So there can be no time when death, if it is a misfortune, can be ascribed to the subject. 3) Finally, the asymmetry of our attitudes towards our posthumous and prenatel nonexistence. Why can we view the eternity after our death as bad, but not the eternity before our birth?

 

He illustrates the errors of the first two objections with a simple illustration that is analogous to death. Imagine an intelligent man being reduced to the mental condition of a content infant. Even though he is content, we pity him. Yet, he doesn't realize this tragedy, for he is a content infant. Does the phrase, "What we don't know doesn't hurt us," apply to him? If so why do we pity him? Second, it isn't the content infant who is unfortunate, rather, it is the intelligent adult who has been reduced to this condition.

 

We shouldn't and don't focus on the content infant, instead we consider the person he was and the person he could be now. So his reduction to this state and the premature ending of his adult development is a catastrophe. Just as death is a catastrophe.

 

What about the problem of our asymmetrical attitudes towards our posthumous and prenatel nonexisetence?

 

Lucretius was the one who first pointed this out. He recognized that no one finds it disturbing to contemplate the eternity before their birth, which really is the same as the eternity after their death. Thus, it is irrational to fear death.

 

Nagel disagrees, he argues that the time after death is the time in which nonexistence deprives a person. "Any death entails the loss of some life."[14] So the eternity after death isn't the same as the eternity before birth, because one is deprived of life. Some may argue then, that one is deprived of life before birth as well because they could have been born earlier. But Nagel shows the fallacy of this thinking by pointing out that if one is born any earlier (except a few weeks premature), they would not be the same person. So it doesn't entail the loss of any life. Lucretius, and any one who agrees with him, is wrong in thinking that it is irrational to fear death on the basis that we aren't bothered by our prenatel eternity.

 

Life makes known to us the goods of which death deprives us. Death, no matter when it happens deprives us of some continuation of life. While it is tragic for a 17 year old to die, it is just as tragic for a 90 year old to die because both are deprived of life and the good that comes with it.

 

Viewed in this way, death, no matter how inevitable, is an abrupt cancellation of indefinitely extensive possible goods. Normality seems to have nothing to do with it, for the fact that we will all inevitably die in a few score years cannot by itself imply that it would not be good to live longer. Suppose that we were all inevitably going to die in agony -- physical agony lasting six months. Would inevitability make that prospect any less unpleasant? And why should it be different for a deprivation?[14]

 

Not many atheists are as consistent as Thomas Nagal when they speak on death. Kaufmann says he can face death without hopelessness because he lives richly and that gives meaning to his life. But what kind of meaning is it? If Kaufmann never existed, what ultimate difference would it make? None. If the atheists faces this honestly, how can he view death with anything but despair?

 

As shown in these two extended arguments, death apart from God cannot be faced with anything but fear and despair if one is to live consistently within their atheistic world view. The only way an atheist can face death without despair is by ascribing ultimate meaning to their life, which is a jump to the second story and is completely inconsistent with atheism.

 

Certainly it doesn't follow, then, that theism is true simply because the atheist must face death with despair. If the atheist is right we must follow the instructions of Bertrand Russell and build our lives on the "firm foundation of unyielding despair." We must look for the truth and then logically structure our lives accordingly. Obtaining hope from religion for the sake of hope, when that religion is not true, is simply obtaining false hope. False hope is no hope at all.

 

That is why it is crucial to examine our world views to see if they are logically consistent and correspond to reality. It does one no good to put faith and hope into a god who doesn't exist. However, if a god does exist, we must put our faith and hope into the right one.

 

We've seen that within the atheistic world view there can be no meaning or purpose and this leads to hopelessness. The atheist must choose whether he wants to live consistently or happily. For as long as he is an atheist, he can't do both.

 

Notes

1. Alfred, Lord Tennyson, In Memorium, (The Macmillan Company: New York, NY, 1906), pp.83-85, 55: 4-5; 56: 1-7.

2. Ravi Zacharias, A Shattered Visage: The Real Face of Atheism. (Baker Books: Grand Rapids, Ml, 1990), p. 105.

3. William Lane Craig, Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth and Apologetics, (Crossway Books: Wheaton, IL, 1984), p. 59.

4. Craig, p.63.

5. Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Will to Power," trans. W. kaufmann, in , (The World Publishing Company: Cleveland, OH, 1956), pp. 109-110.

6. Bertrand Russell, Mysticism and Logic. (W.W. Norton and Company, Inc.: New York, NY, 1929), pp. 47-49.

7. Jean-Paul Sartre, Being and Nothingness, (Philosophical Library: New York, NY, 1956), p.537.

8. Matthias Claudius, Death and the Maiden. Quoted in Walter kaufmann, Existentialism, Religion and Death (New American Library: New York, NY, 1976), p.228.

9. Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols. Quoted in Walter Kaufmann, Existentialism, Religion, and Death. (New American Library: New York, NY, 1976), p.237.

10. Walter kaufmann, Existentialism, Religion, and Death. (New American Library: New York, NY, 1976), p. 248.

11. Thomas Nagel, Mortal Questions. (Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, 1979), p.1.

12. Nagel, p.4.

13. Nagel, p.7.

14. Nagel, p.10.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Atheism cannot offer any comfort in the face of death. You see, everything we do includes some kind of hope. However, what kind of hope can the atheist give in the face of death? One may say that death is the final freeing of all desires and thus is good. Or that one can have hope in death if they are suffering. These really are just false hopes that I hopefully will clearly show.

And living a lie makes living real living? Puhleeez! I'd rather live a full life free of the chains of religion. Whats not said here is that there is a price for being religious. That price is adhering to bullshit taboos and buying into fear and shame that is the baggage of religion. Some religions are less limiting than others but regardless of the religion you will descriminate for or against people, places and things with idiotic superstition as your ruler or scales at times. It is sensless to limit yourself and to always be potentially placing limits on others just to maintain a lie so you will not fear death as much. Human beings should worry about living and making life worth living rather than worry about a magical answer to death were there is none. Science is our only salvation and lies are not.

 

Atheism will not hinder us in finding real solutions to real problems where as religion always will. Religion is not a solution to anything. Niether is an addiction to false hope of being immortal. If the religionists want to whine about the old grim reaper they aught to look to science to keep him away from us as long as possible instead of peddling thier lies.

 

As far as Nihilism goes we contradict ourselves when we say life is meaningless. Our human needs physical/emotional contradict any notions of life being meaningless. We can't stay in such a state forever. Sooner or later we will find meaning in life even when everything seems meaningless because of our human needs.

[Vigile]

is sensless to limit yourself and to always be potentially placing limits on others just to maintain a lie so you will not fear death as much.

 

Exactly. What good is false hope if it is indeed just false hope. An atheist may not have anything to look forward to after death, but neither does a believer; they merely think they do. What a sad, sad joke. They spend their lives bound in the chains of their religion with the hope that the next life will offer them a reward. But they won't get the reward and so they will have spent their miserable lives miserably. At least I'm free to live today without guilt, without false hope, and without fear.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Exactly.  What good is false hope if it is indeed just false hope.  An atheist may not have anything to look forward to after death, but neither does a believer; they merely think they do.  What a sad, sad joke.  They spend their lives bound in the chains of their religion with the hope that the next life will offer them a reward.  But they won't get the reward and so they will have spent their miserable lives miserably.  At least I'm free to live today without guilt, without false hope, and without fear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many xers you meet that ever really got Nietzsche and do they realize that Nihilism has evolved? I think Nihilist perspective is a way to clean house. To rethink our values. I believe that using reason and empathy through a Nihilistic outlook is very liberating.

[Vigile]

How many xers you meet that ever really got Nietzsche and do they realize that Nihilism has evolved? I think Nihilist perspective is a way to clean house. To rethink our values. I believe that using reason and empathy through a Nihilistic outlook is very liberating.

 

Not to mention that a nihilistic view is most likely just an acceptance of an unchangeable reality.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Not to mention that a nihilistic view is most likely just an acceptance of an unchangeable reality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea, but I feel we can strive for excellence and push the envalope using reason based on what is evident and probable. Nihilism can be a realism that still leaves room for dreams.

 

 

The old grim reaper can't please everyone all the time according to thier desires, but if I were suffering from a painful disease I sure would welcome him. Sides, would anyone really want to live forever anyways? hehe.

 

"All our times have come. Here but now they're gone. Seasons don't fear the reaper Nor do the wind the sun or the rain (we can be like they are)"

[♦ ficino ♦]

I think that like lots of neurotic coping mechanisms, religious illusions work for a while, as long as the person feels they get more inner support from it than without it. Sort of like feeling like you're nothing unless you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, so you abase yourself before this one, then that one. When reality hits hard enough, even strong neurotic obsessions crack. We've seen that happen with religion in our lives and we remember how strongly our emotion fought against what we were coming to realize. In the end, though, more peace and harmony inside and with other people comes with resolving neurotic obsessions than with closing your eyes and grasping onto them. I think the author of the paper is eye-closing and grasping.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Dang! Brother Jeff your on a roll man. Awesome topic and article.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I think that like lots of neurotic coping mechanisms, religious illusions work for a while, as long as the person feels they get more inner support from it than without it.  Sort of like feeling like you're nothing unless you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, so you abase yourself before this one, then that one.  When reality hits hard enough, even strong neurotic obsessions crack.  We've seen that happen with religion in our lives and we remember how strongly our emotion fought against what we were coming to realize.  In the end, though, more peace and harmony inside and with other people comes with resolving neurotic obsessions than with closing your eyes and grasping onto them. I think the author of the paper is eye-closing and grasping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I couldnt agree more. The xers really do have us by our short and curlies though as fear of death is very powerful. Heaven worshipers are emotional cripples in some ways.

[webmdave]

If human beings are the ultimate "creation" in the universe, his logic does have some merit. I just don't think that "we" are not the pinnacle of life. Without death there is no evolution.

 

I'm sure the dinosaurs, if they had the power of speech, would have thought themselves the top of the food chain and the most important expression of DNA ever "created." Then things changed, the Dino's all died off, and mammals took over, eventually evolving into you and me.

 

I don't think "we" are the last chapter in this "replicating DNA" story. It's my opinion that life will go on as long as there is a universe to contain it - it just might not be human life as we understand it today.

 

Regardless, if atheism is pessimistic and there is no "ultimate purpose," how optimistic is it to have a purpose that condemns the bulk of all humanity to an endless, mind-numbing torture-chamber, with no hope of escape. Talk about despair! I'd much rather die, return to the elements, and pass from reality, than to be hideously tortured for eternity. For that matter I'd rather cease to exist than spend eternity frolicking in heaven full knowing that most of my own kind were writhing in unimaginable horror under my feet.

 

Reality is not pessimism, nor is not optimism - it is reality. Mature adults choose reality.

[thomas]

Atheism and Death: Why the atheist must face death with despair

By Dustin Shramek

 

From: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/atheism.html

 

The title of this paper may catch some off guard. .........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The author seems to want to deduce objective meaning and hope from some metaphysical principle. He wants something like: “God created you with a purpose, and therefore your life can have meaning.” And since such a deduction is impossible within atheism, he falsely reaches the conclusion, that atheists does not experience meaning.

 

Let me in contrast to this quote (by heart) a Danish musician and entertainer called Jakob Haugaard. He once said something like this: “People should stop looking for the meaning of life. They should realize that life is meaningless, and when they do so, they will discover that life becomes so meaningful”. Or in my own words: “We are free to make up a meaning with our lives, and it is very meaningful to do so”.

 

So experience shows us, that the life on an atheist can be very meaningful.

 

It is of course true, that there is no hope of immortality in atheism, but the article implies that therefore our lives are worthless. And there I have to disagree. The author is once again trying to deduce value from some grand abstract ideal world (by comparing a limited life span with eternity), and then he totally overlooks the fact, that lots of people experience life as valuable.

 

Of course, nobody really wants to die, but the author is totally wrong in his approach. Actually he is a fucking idiot.

[Samurai Tailor]

Was it explained in the OP why purpose cannot be self-endowed and I just missed it?

[SerpentIntheMidst]

I think that like lots of neurotic coping mechanisms, religious illusions work for a while, as long as the person feels they get more inner support from it than without it.  Sort of like feeling like you're nothing unless you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, so you abase yourself before this one, then that one.  When reality hits hard enough, even strong neurotic obsessions crack.  We've seen that happen with religion in our lives and we remember how strongly our emotion fought against what we were coming to realize.  In the end, though, more peace and harmony inside and with other people comes with resolving neurotic obsessions than with closing your eyes and grasping onto them.  I think the author of the paper is eye-closing and grasping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

exactly

[SerpentIntheMidst]

I don't think "we" are the last chapter in this "replicating DNA" story. It's my opinion that life will go on as long as there is a universe to contain it - it just might not be human life as we understand it today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

interesting, I never thought of it that way

[narcissist]

Is this what they call "transference"?

 

Just think: According to this guy, all those atheists are wrong. They shouldn't be out there enjoying their lives and getting on it. Hell no. They should all be sad and depressed and pessimistic because their life has no meaning and they're going to die. Naughty atheists!

 

I think this guy is so scared of death and so scared of the doubts about his own faith that he has had to write a lengthy "paper" on the subject so he can pin his fears and doubts on someone else, hopefully purging himself of these "demons" in the process.

 

I've never met, heard or read an athiest as scared and depressed as this guy wishes they were, or as he himself comes across.

[Guest Bill Adama]

Thanks the gods I read this. If it wasn't for Brother Dustin I never would have known what I was feeling or why I was feeling it. I had no idea how miserable was. I thought I had left my morbid obsessions with all things morbid behind when I left Christianity. Oh, how I, who was born worthy of death, yearn to be washed clean of this pre-occupation with death by the blood of Christ, who died on the the cross so that I might have eternal life after I die.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Is this what they call "transference"?

 

Just think: According to this guy, all those atheists are wrong.  They shouldn't be out there enjoying their lives and getting on it.  Hell no.  They should all be sad and depressed and pessimistic because their life has no meaning and they're going to die.  Naughty atheists!

 

I think this guy is so scared of death and so scared of the doubts about his own faith that he has had to write a lengthy "paper" on the subject so he can pin his fears and doubts on someone else, hopefully purging himself of these "demons" in the process.

 

I've never met, heard or read an athiest as scared and depressed as this guy wishes they were, or as he himself comes across.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right on the money in my opinion.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

Wow. And here I thought my scoffing at suicides because I find life much more interesting than senselessly killing myself meant I was at the very least an optimist about life. It's hard to be sad when I know my body will be feeding some starving worms after I go, or that my organs will be donated to someone who needs them.

[dogmatically_challenged]

"All our times have come. Here but now they're gone. Seasons don't fear the reaper Nor do the wind the sun or the rain (we can be like they are)"

Twisting the song a little,..

 

The earths cycles do not fear destruction yet continues and does its thing even though destruction is inevetable. All things in the universe acts according to its nature and future destruction is irrelevent to its momentum.

 

Nature has no gods. "We can be like they are" without losing momentum in our cycle. We can spin our wheels like the religionists do or we can just do our thing in our time. This is our time.

[I Broke Free]

Why the atheist must face death with despair

 

Must? I thought I had freewill.

 

When the author of this piece of crap can tell me why most Christians avoid “paradise” like the plague, then perhaps I will finish reading it.

 

IBF

[dogmatically_challenged]

[/b]

 

Must? I thought I had freewill.

 

When the author of this piece of crap can tell me why most Christians avoid “paradise” like the plague, then perhaps I will finish reading it.

 

IBF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[LadyFeline]

Pfft. I don't need to fear death.

 

Mainly because, by the time I'm an old woman, I'll likely have the option of haveing my brain placed into a cyborg shell! Mwahahaha!

 

We'll see who "fears death" then

[fortunehooks]

i think he is on a trip. i have never known anyone to face death happy. even if you claim to be a christian, i don't think you will applaud and beckon for death.

[qadeshet]

What would life be like without death as a counter balance? Both are necessary to maintain balance. I look at death as being possibly the greatest adventure of all. Who knows? Since energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed, perhaps our consciousness survives. Or perhaps not. But we all are a part of the Universe which gave us birth.. And death is the price we pay. What is there to fear?

[Fweethawt]

<<<puts on fluffy helmet>>>

 

In my opinion, Christianity has done it's best to fuck up this world and the next.

 

<<<takes off fluffy helmet>>>