dogmatically_challenged Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 <<<puts on fluffy helmet>>> In my opinion, Christianity has done it's best to fuck up this world and the next. <<<takes off fluffy helmet>>> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If the goal of religion is to be loving and encourage self respect and respect for others then the inventors of xianity really fubar'd in those goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cyranothe2nd Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I personally plan to develop a super android body (not something gay like C3PO, but something really cool...maybe Darth Vader?) and put my consciousness into so I can go on living forever.... And then Captain Picard would tell me I had no right to take Data's brain and I would be all like, "Bitch, please! *sigh* If there was one Enterprise cappy that needed bitch-slapped.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 When the author of this piece of crap can tell me why most Christians avoid “paradise” like the plague, then perhaps I will finish reading it. Exactly. Everyone fears death, everyone hates it when they lose a loved one, and everyone suspects death is permanent. The difference between a "believer" and me, is that I have taken the time and emotional cost associated with coming to grips with annihilation, and it isn't nearly as bad as I would have thought. Oddly, this perspective has actually made it somewhat easier to deal with the loss of loved ones (2 now since my apostasy). Had you asked me how a nonbeliever dealt with death back in my sheep days, I would have imagined a dismal world of endless fear and despair. How silly I was, and how silly that author remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 That idiot sure went to a LOT of trouble justifying why those different from himself should all be completely miserable. Anyone who goes to such lengths "proving" the unhappiness of others cannot be experiencing healthy life satisfaction or positive self-esteem themselves. If this guy were actually happy and satisfied with his own life, he sure as heck wouldn't take such an interest is the lives of others. Someone is jealous of non-theist happiness and contentment. Jealous enough to write up a massive piece of crap to enforce their cognitive dissonace. Petulant little bitch, isn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtdude Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Our yearning, collectively and individually, to live forever is a specifically human obsession and evidence of our innate arrogance. We believe that we are more special than any other living creature, our major deity(ies) must be like us, and that it is all part of a cosmic plan for the soul to never extinguish. According to theists, the universe is more about the survival of the human soul than any deity's glory or importance. (Otherwise, the survival of the soul would be unimportant.) The deity must resolve our existential agony for us. How that plays out is evidenced in the myriad of religions. What a cop out. There is nothing in the world that demands that humans be the pinnacle of existence (created, evolved or whatever). We just happen to be exploiting the damned place the most. As a result of my years as a believer, I have had to truly struggle to accept that at death, existence probably ends. I'm not sure of it, but there is nothing to convince me otherwise (lazy agnostic that I am). I remember distinctly in 1984 standing by a river in Washington State, knowing I no longer was a believer (moment of truth), and thinking, "Well, there's nothing to live for without god. I'll commit suicide." But looking out on the beautiful morning, the sun warming my skin and face, the water sliding by all green-blue and smelling of Spring, I realized that life is all I've got. No delusions of an afterlife. Just life here and now. And all of that meant zero unless I created something out of it for myself and ultimately those I loved and cared for. I CHOSE to make something. This is why I reject the reasoning that without a deity(ies), existence means nothing. It means even less when existence becomes a game in the hands of a wrathful god, ready to torture those who don't follow his plan (as so well expressed by the webmaster above). Once you reject that god must intervene somehow, the next step is to realize that you must do the intervention to give life meaning. Christians (and all people of any faith) do not understand this, because they have abdicated this responsibility to their god. Not a big surprise that they see us atheists and agnostics as being without hope. But that is not my experience. I have renounced my abdication of responsibility and taken it back, damn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I remember distinctly in 1984 standing by a river in Washington State, knowing I no longer was a believer (moment of truth), and thinking, "Well, there's nothing to live for without god. I'll commit suicide." But looking out on the beautiful morning, the sun warming my skin and face, the water sliding by all green-blue and smelling of Spring, I realized that life is all I've got. No delusions of an afterlife. Just life here and now. And all of that meant zero unless I created something out of it for myself and ultimately those I loved and cared for. I CHOSE to make something. This is such a wonderful experience, Curtdude. We've probably all had something like it. It's an experience and realization that stays with you your whole life. Did you ever experience the other side of it, i.e. "this is so beautiful I could die now"? 'course you don't really want to because you realize that the beauty is realized by you, the living person - or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtdude Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 ...Did you ever experience the other side of it, i.e. "this is so beautiful I could die now"? 'course you don't really want to because you realize that the beauty is realized by you, the living person - or something along those lines. Yes, I have. Glad you can relate w/ all this. The mind does become acute at times (mine seems to take a break far too often ) and for a moment, there is absolute clarity. The metaphors drop away, all of the "extra" and "hidden" meanings are cast aside, and we are left with just us and the world. You know, ficino, loving life seems to make hating death more difficult (is this logically impossible?). Honestly, I don't know. The philosophers will have to pick up that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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