Is religion a mental illness?

[Mike D]

Donna Gore, Atlanta Freethought Society, proposed that religion should be classified as a mental illness, for all of the following reasons:

 

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who he insists are real, and to whom he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends.

 

(2) Delusions - patients believe that the invisible friends have magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, etc., and will do so eventually if asked.

 

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results.

 

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality - the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

 

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan," etc.

 

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, etc., cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

 

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using violence

 

What do you think, are these symptoms accurate, or no?

[Checkmate]

Oh, SNAP! Damn skippy I believe this shoe fits! I've been screaming this fact for months! Religious people are the ONLY nutjobs allowed to walk freely outside of an insane asylum. People with the EXACT same conditions Donna Gore outlines are USUALLY locked away for their own safety and to protect society. But we allow the religious to walk around scott free because they claim to know "god"? What the fuck is that all about? An invisible friend or an invisible sweater. It shouldn't matter. Crazy is as crazy does.

 

Lock 'em all up and let 'em knit invisible sweaters for their invisible friend until they stop talking to themselves (aka praying). That's my vote.

[Brother Jeff]

Religion itself is just a set of beliefs, rules, and dogma. But, I fully agree that religious belief - and especially fundamentalist religious belief - strongly resembles a serious psychological disorder. I do believe that fundamentalism should be added to the next edition of the DSM, despite the objections of the fundamentalists that they are not delusional or mentally ill. They quite obviously ARE delusional, and they should receive the professional treatment that they need.

 

Check out this article by Brother George Dvorsky, who advocates classifying religious fundamentalism as a psychological disorder:

 

Ending Biblical Brainwash

http://www.betterhumans.com/Columns/Column...13/Default.aspx

 

Many of my extended relatives are devout fundies. Aside from their religious beliefs and activities, they are quite sane, functional people. That's true of many other religious people, too. I really think that religious belief should be viewed more as a psychological disorder - a neurosis - rather than a full blown mental illness.

 

I would add to your list the fact that extreme religious belief short-circuits critical, rational thinking skills in the believer.

[Brutal Brian]

Donna Gore, Atlanta Freethought Society, proposed that religion should be classified as a mental illness, for all of the following reasons:

 

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who he insists are real, and to whom he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends.

 

(2) Delusions - patients believe that the invisible friends have magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, etc., and will do so eventually if asked.

 

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results.

 

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality -  the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

 

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan," etc.

 

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, etc., cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

 

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using violence

 

What do you think, are these symptoms accurate, or no?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too true. Too true. I would love to lock up the hardcore fundies in the loony bin for all the BS we all have had to deal with. The world would be a better place.

 

Pat Robertson can be the first one to get locked up.

[Thurisaz]

What do you think, are these symptoms accurate, or no?

 

For the christian death cult, definitely yes. Same for islam. I can't make an informed judgment about judaism due to not knowing enough about the different "denominations" within that religion.

 

However, everyone please don't forget that not all religions are like that.

There are those who believe... have no evidence that what or whom they believe in really exists anywhere outside their imagination... but are aware of this lack of evidence and thus don't try to push their beliefs on others.

 

Just for the sake of fairness you know.

[Thurisaz]

...Check out this article by Brother George Dvorsky, who advocates classifying religious fundamentalism as a psychological disorder:...

 

That should be the keyword I think. It's not (necessarily) religion per se, but fundyism that's disgusting.

[dead_hobbit]

To be fair, a lot of those symptoms can be found in Rabid Atheists as well.

[MQTA]

To be fair, a lot of those symptoms can be found in Rabid Atheists as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Rabid anything... if you're bitten by a sick dog, that's to be expected

[Amethyst]

What do you think, are these symptoms accurate, or no?

 

I would agree that fundamentalist religion could be classified as a mental illness. The only reason it hasn't been yet is because of the uberPCness of our society and the unwillingness of most people to admit that they were dumb enough to join a cult and be brainwashed. Not only is fundyism a mental illness, but it tends to exacerbate mental illnesses that people who believe in it already have.

 

Many of my extended relatives are devout fundies. Aside from their religious beliefs and activities, they are quite sane, functional people. That's true of many other religious people, too. I really think that religious belief should be viewed more as a psychological disorder - a neurosis - rather than a full blown mental illness.

 

Okay. I am willing to also accept this notion. Many people get therapy for psychological disorders like depression. So it would make sense to give fundies therapy for fundyism. The problem is, how do you help people who don't want to be helped because they're afraid of going to hell if they stop believing in everything so literally?

[MrSpooky]

To my understanding, a mental illness is identified not by the more basic symptoms, but by the consequence of an inability to function properly in reality, whether this be the ability to order information that coincides with reality (such as knowing that stabbing yourself is BAD for you) or socially (such as knowing who you are and how to relate to people).

 

Overall, religion itself isn't a mental illness. Churchgoers can still function scientifically and socially (if only in their own circles, and despite being utterly rude to others occasionally). However, religion can HIDE true mental illnesses because the superficial symptoms are pretty much the same. This is what sets the difference between Joe Churchy who just does crazy preaching and Maggie Jesusface who drowns her babies because she thinks God told her to do it.

[dogmatically_challenged]

To my understanding, a mental illness is identified not by the more basic symptoms, but by the consequence of an inability to function properly in reality, whether this be the ability to order information that coincides with reality (such as knowing that stabbing yourself is BAD for you) or socially (such as knowing who you are and how to relate to people).

 

Overall, religion itself isn't a mental illness.  Churchgoers can still function scientifically and socially (if only in their own circles, and despite being utterly rude to others occasionally).  However, religion can HIDE true mental illnesses because the superficial symptoms are pretty much the same.  This is what sets the difference between Joe Churchy who just does crazy preaching and Maggie Jesusface who drowns her babies because she thinks God told her to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Makes sense if we are talking religion in general. Still, when it comes some denominations there is brainwashing. Some denominations are artificial mental illnesses.

 

Some mental illnesses are caused by chemical imbalances in a person, but not all mental illnesses are caused by a chemical imbalance.

 

I think brainwashing can make some one fruit loops. I think fundies definately are fruit loops.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Karen Horney catalogued various neurotic obsessions, which lead to conflict within the person. She wrote a number of books on how a neurotic structure may help a person deal with stress early in life, but eventually, it blocks the person from expanding the personality as fully as s/he could, leading to many anxieties and griefs. I have wondered whether authoritarian religious systems, at least, are neurotic coping structures writ large upon entire cultures. Whether your average neurosis counts as a mental "illness" is probably up to the theory of the therapist you consult. (Horney, of course, gives me the impression of thinking that the whole world should be in therapy - but that's another conversation.) I would say that some fundamentalist subcultures would count as "ill" cultures.

[BuddhistCommunist]

Well I am a buddhist by religion, but I don't fit any of those symptoms. Are you just talking about theistic religions or what

[Mike D]

Well I am a buddhist by religion, but I don't fit any of those symptoms. Are you just talking about theistic religions or what

I think it's more directed at fundamentalism. And honestly I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that religious people should be institutionalized, I think this was really done more tongue in cheek than anything else. Probably just to make a point about religious extremism. The point was well taken.

[Ouroboros]

Personally I don't think it is a mental illness. Since if that would be the case, I was mentally ill for 30 years, and what am I know then?

 

Besides, religion is a memeplex just like many other ideologies. The human is a Meme Machine, and religion is a viral strain of memes that easily copies itself, it practically has its own life.

 

Nothing is wrong with the humans, we're all the same, but it can be really hard to get well from the mental viral infection religion constitutes.

[MQTA]

Personally I don't think it is a mental illness. Since if that would be the case, I was mentally ill for 30 years, and what am I now then?

 

Cured? Awakened? Truly Enlightened?

 

they're all just words anyway; how do you feel and what do you think, how you are now, compared to how you were for 30 years? Free?

[Amethyst]

Well I am a buddhist by religion, but I don't fit any of those symptoms. Are you just talking about theistic religions or what?

 

I'm personally only talking about fundamentalist ideology.

 

they're all just words anyway; how do you feel and what do you think, how you are now, compared to how you were for 30 years? Free?

 

I considered myself Christian for over 20 years of my life; close to 30. I feel as though I have finally awakened from a long nightmare.

[Ouroboros]

Cured?  Awakened?  Truly Enlightened?

 

they're all just words anyway; how do you feel and what do you think, how you are now, compared to how you were for 30 years?  Free?

Oh, I feel free alright. Like getting out from an illness, very true. But a mental defect is nothing you just get well from by some advil and a few days rest. I see religion rather as a brain washing and indoctrination of false ideas. The problem is the idea, not the person who got fooled.

 

If religion is a mental defect, then 90% of humans have it, and unfortunately evolution went down the wrong path, and I fear humanity is doomed. It might be so, but then again, if everyone has the same defect, then it is not a defect or abnormality, since "normal" means "the norm".

[Amethyst]

I think religion is cultural rather than genetic. Cultures can be changed, but those things happen rather slowly. Or maybe it is a combination of things, like genes and culture. Either way, we as a society need to find a way to change extreme behaviors for the better, or we'll just end up with a Christian version of the Taliban eventually.

[Ouroboros]

I think religion is cultural rather than genetic.  Cultures can be changed, but those things happen rather slowly.  Or maybe it is a combination of things, like genes and culture.  Either way, we as a society need to find a way to change extreme behaviors for the better, or we'll just end up with a Christian version of the Taliban eventually.

You're right, but genetically we have become a meme computer, which easily copies thougths, behaviours and ideas from other people. The ideologies have their own life, just like computer software. And we are like computers, copying viruses from internet. Imagine when MS Windows™ is doing data processing and communication with other computers at night when we are at sleep, and automatically gets viruses. And the viruses eventually become more advanced and complex. A computer virus is not a computer, and a computer is not a computer virus, but the computer has all the functionality to support the progress and life of the virus. That's how the genetic ties into religion. We don't need religion, but religion needs humans.

 

Our minds have evolved to copy ideas, and there are reasons to why this has happened. Animals that could adjust, improve and copy new ways of hunting their prey, had a better chance of survival and could modify techniques when the environment changed. But the animal had to be able to transfer the new knowledge to offspring or family, and language developed too. So language, memeplexes and ideologies/religions are tightly interrelated, and the human brain is highly developed and optimized for this purpose.

 

Even what I'm doing right now, giving my opinion about the subject and y'all giving yours is driven by the meme mechanics in our brains. We need to share and spread ideas. That's how we work, and this is what has driven the progress of cars, TV, internet, cellphones etc. Anything that improves the way of spreading ideas, will become the strongest trends in society.

 

--- edit ---

 

And we truly need a replacement for fundamentalistic and extreme religious faith systems.

[Guest vanesa]

YES most religions are mental illnesses practiced by mental midgets.

[Ms. K]

Honestly, I think that fundamentalism falls under the category of mental illness.

 

Religion as a whole is a man-made concept meant to reassure us all of having some sort of afterlife, and a set of guidelines that tell us what not to do to avoid being damned for eternity. Religion is driven by man's need to have an explanation for the seemingly unexplainable.

 

Fundamentalism, on the other hand, well, I'm against fundamentalism at home, and fundamentalism abroad. Any kind of fanatical belief in religion, political systems, gender identities, or anything is bad.

 

My parents are still nominally Catholic. However, they have never been big on telling me that because the Church says it, I must obey. They're not "do-it-or-thou-shalt-be-damned" kind of people. They think for themselves, and they don't like doctrine and dogma. Yeah, I know, it's confusing.

 

At any rate, my parents are not mentally ill people. My in-laws, who are fundie whackjobs, are mentally ill. In more ways than just fundamentalist Christian views. They fit the categories of mental illness...and they revel in it. Oh, they're just "blessed, Praise the Lord!" They're True Believers , and anyone who doesn't think they way they do? Well, if you don't believe what they do, you're NOT a True Believer , Praise the Lord!

 

I'm more than a little tired of arguing anything with them. So, I don't. I figure that they're going to try to bait me if they ever find out about my deconversion, and I'm not interested. My husband is not interested in allowing them to bait me, either, so he's saying precisely dick as well.

 

In other words, what I'm trying to say now that I've rambled on, is that religion as a mental illness depends on the person's beliefs in their religion, and how dogmatic and doctrinally correct they percieve themselves to be.

[brick]

I want to scream from the highest mountaintop, "HELL, YA!!!!!!!", but the moderate in myself is taking hold.....

That "moment", as I've heard it described by theistic friends, when one "knows" god must certainly be classified as some sort of psychotic episode. To find oneself in a euphoric state from an entirely internal experience is not a particularly healthy thing. Sure, an epiphany can result from a dialogue or some other, but not something of the intensity of euphoria. This is just not a good thing.

I've long held the opinion that theism is a condition of mental unhealth; a handy crutch for the inately lazy human. Religeon, as in 'the church' is nothing short of fraud on a massive scale. Ancient, shameful, malicious fraud.

The tricky bit is that most people slip in and out of it effortlessly and frequently; the soccer-mom sings bravely in mass one sunday, a sincere tear in her eye, and the next day is shoplifting CK1 at WalMart. It's the animal we are; adaptable, changeable, resilient to adversity. What's one to do?

[Amethyst]

My parents are still nominally Catholic. However, they have never been big on telling me that because the Church says it, I must obey. They're not "do-it-or-thou-shalt-be-damned" kind of people. They think for themselves, and they don't like doctrine and dogma. Yeah, I know, it's confusing.

 

My mother was a fundamentalist Missouri-Synod Lutheran. I highly suspect that most of her religiosity was due to getting her first cancer diagnosis when I was about 11, but I don't know for sure. I think she was extremely frightened at where she was going to end up. It's so terribly sad that the church does that to people.

 

My dad is moderately liberal (and I suspect, a closet agnostic). My stepmom is Catholic. She still believes in going to church, but she's not the go-every-Sunday, say-a-dozen-Hail-Marys-constantly sort. She's also a moderate. Unfortunately, she still believes that praying and going to church is "good for you." Since when did religion become a multivitamin?

[Angel]

Man, reading that really stood out to me. I would say this describes most pentecostal christians. It certainly is very close to having a mental illness. I do know this for a fact, then when you have suffered at the hands of extreme pentecostals, it CAUSES mental problems for some in the future once they have gotten away from them (hell, even for some that are STILL in the fold).

Depression, low self esteem, insecurity, paranoia, anxiety.