white_raven23 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Cured? Awakened? Truly Enlightened? they're all just words anyway; how do you feel and what do you think, how you are now, compared to how you were for 30 years? Free? I kinda prefer "vaccinated" myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clergicide Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 To my understanding, a mental illness is identified not by the more basic symptoms, but by the consequence of an inability to function properly in reality, whether this be the ability to order information that coincides with reality (such as knowing that stabbing yourself is BAD for you) or socially (such as knowing who you are and how to relate to people). Overall, religion itself isn't a mental illness. Churchgoers can still function scientifically and socially (if only in their own circles, and despite being utterly rude to others occasionally). However, religion can HIDE true mental illnesses because the superficial symptoms are pretty much the same. This is what sets the difference between Joe Churchy who just does crazy preaching and Maggie Jesusface who drowns her babies because she thinks God told her to do it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> but by the consequence of an inability to function properly in reality, whether this be the ability to order information that coincides with reality (such as knowing that stabbing yourself is BAD for you) This, like the baby drowning example, are extreme manifestations of such illness and represent on the smallest percentile of those afflicted. There was an example here a while back of an Xtian that believed God and the Devil were heavily influencing his decision on how much gas to pump into his car..Now this may not have affected the way he treated the station attendant or other patrons in the store, but it does illustrate how on a very deep level the man was disconnected from that which is real. The most dangerous thing about Christianity is that once the host accepts it, there is no end to the power of suggestion it holds over them. What was a simple neurotic debate in his mind reviewing how much money he needed for other things, how much gas he required to get to where he was going etc etc . was assigned by his mind to some epic and supernatural event, rather than to his rational mind doing the tasks of calculating how much gas he should get. This re-attribution of coincidence, rational thought, conscience, superstition, etc etc to things unreal is very much in line with mental illness. As stated, he is not 'functioning properly' in reality, even though the outward signs are more subtle. If you have or share a fantasy that affects the way you would otherwise behave, no matter how slightly, then you are at least superstitious and at worst mentally ill. Here's the question: How many Christians would live their lives more meaningfully, take more vacations, pursue hobbies or interests more seriously, or be kinder to those around them, if they suddenly believed that this life was all that is given? That is how deeply Xtianity affects/afflicts the minds of it's followers. I see nothing more mentally unbalanced than the willingness to forego this life and what it has to offer to pursue the fantasy of the next life. Because on casual observation this altered behavior can't be monitored, does that make the behavior correct or sound? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthWarrior Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Some beliefs can cause or exacerbate mental problems, but I wouldn't so broadly classify all religions or all christians, or even all "fundys" as mental. But that Fred phelps guy is pretty damn mental! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Karen Horney catalogued various neurotic obsessions, which lead to conflict within the person. She wrote a number of books on how a neurotic structure may help a person deal with stress early in life, but eventually, it blocks the person from expanding the personality as fully as s/he could, leading to many anxieties and griefs. I agree!! In fact, I was just mentioning to a friend the other day that since my deconversion, I feel I have grown a lot in ways I could have never previously imagined. It would have been impossible in the state of mind I was in before, christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 You know, now that I am "away" and "out" of the religion, honestly, it scares me how people are so affected by it. It truly is frightening......espcially when they run around thinking that those of us that are not "saved" belong to a "prince of darkness" and that we are evil. Or...the nutjobs that do something horrendous and then claim that "god told them to do it." I mean, we joke about biblegod. We talk about him being a sky santa and all of that, but there are really a lot of scary dynamics about it all as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Honestly, I think that fundamentalism falls under the category of mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Man, reading that really stood out to me. I would say this describes most pentecostal christians. It certainly is very close to having a mental illness. I do know this for a fact, then when you have suffered at the hands of extreme pentecostals, it CAUSES mental problems for some in the future once they have gotten away from them (hell, even for some that are STILL in the fold). Depression, low self esteem, insecurity, paranoia, anxiety. Hey, fellow former Pentecostal here Can you still speak in tongues? I can: "alkdjfla eireija oiibuah aldkkgha skkjejr" As our own Brother Jeff would say: "Glory!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hey, fellow former Pentecostal here Can you still speak in tongues? I can: "alkdjfla eireija oiibuah aldkkgha skkjejr" As our own Brother Jeff would say: "Glory!" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When you spoke in "Tongues", did it mean anything to you? Pritish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hey, fellow former Pentecostal here Can you still speak in tongues? I can: "alkdjfla eireija oiibuah aldkkgha skkjejr" As our own Brother Jeff would say: "Glory!" Hall-lay-LOOH-Yah, Brother Mike! Glory! I can still speak in tongues any time I want to, which isn't often because when I do it the Spook of Kryasst who is also somehow magically Him magically convicts me of doing shit that pisses Him off and I start thinking seriously about flattening my face against the flat earth and talking to an Invisible Magically Undead Man who lives in the Sky. We can't have that, can we? CLICK HERE to hear Brother Jeff speak in tongues! I recorded this file a couple of years ago, but it is still powerfully magically anointed! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Bro Jeff, Same here dude. I can speak in tongues still, and I even joined a little prayer meeting few weeks back, and *gasp* I could even pray to the invisible and non-existent being. I could tell my prayer was accepted by the participants. Really strange. I just played along, and no one knew the difference. I wonder if I would get more prayers answered nowdays compared to before? "God, I want some coffeee", and then go and get some coffee, and *wow* my prayers were answered!!! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Hall-lay-LOOH-Yah, Brother Mike! Glory! I can still speak in tongues any time I want to, which isn't often because when I do it the Spook of Kryasst who is also somehow magically Him magically convicts me of doing shit that pisses Him off and I start thinking seriously about flattening my face against the flat earth and talking to an Invisible Magically Undead Man who lives in the Sky. We can't have that, can we? CLICK HERE to hear Brother Jeff speak in tongues! I recorded this file a couple of years ago, but it is still powerfully magically anointed! Glory! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Damn Brutha Jeff!!! That WAS enlightening!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indoctrinated Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Some beliefs can cause or exacerbate mental problems, but I wouldn't so broadly classify all religions or all christians, or even all "fundys" as mental. But that Fred phelps guy is pretty damn mental! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree. I also think that people with certain problems are attracted to certain types of religion and that the evangelistic strategies of some religious groups exploit vulnerabilities in people. I'm unhappy about playing the religion as mental illness card because it is all too easy for societies to stigmatise anyone who is different from the "norm" as mentally ill. So, a "theocratic" state might incarcerate atheists in a psychiatric institution and an atheistic state might do the same to religious people. So we need to be careful with this one! Who is Fred Phelps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reach Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 YES most religions are mental illnesses practiced by mental midgets. Here's an interesting viewpoint originally posted earlier this year in this thread. TESTING THE FAITH Bill Maher: Christians have neurological disorder Says parents 'drill' religion into kids' heads using biblical 'fairy tales' Posted: February 18, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com Television personality Bill Maher, host of HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, says Christians and others who are religious suffer from a neurological disorder that "stops people from thinking." Appearing as a guest on MSNBC's "Scarborough Country" this week, Maher told host Joe Scarborough: "We are a nation that is unenlightened because of religion. I do believe that. I think that religion stops people from thinking. I think it justifies crazies. I think flying planes into a building was a faith-based initiative. I think religion is a neurological disorder. If you look at it logically, it's something that was drilled into your head when you were a small child. It certainly was drilled into mine at that age. And you really can't be responsible when you are a kid for what adults put into your head." The former host of "Politically Incorrect" said the lack of enlightenment of so many Americans means the nation actually has more in common with its enemies than one might think. Said Maher: "When you look at beliefs in such things as, do you go to heaven, is there a devil, we have more in common with Turkey and Iran and Syria than we do with European nations and Canada and nations that, yes, I would consider more enlightened than us." Maher explained that he was not singling out evangelicals, but was targeting all "religious" people. "I think the vote in Missouri [rejecting same-sex marriage] and a lot of other states is because people are religious," Maher said. "They don't have to be evangelical, but they're religious. They believe in religion, which as – I think it was Jesse Ventura who had that quote about religion is a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers." The television host told Scarborough he was convinced evangelicals' influence will wane. Said Maher: "When people say to me, 'You hate America,' I don't hate America. I love America. I am just embarrassed that it has been taken over by people like evangelicals, by people who do not believe in science and rationality. It is the 21st century. And I will tell you, my friend. The future does not belong to the evangelicals. The future does not belong to religion." Later in the interview, Maher returned to the childhood-religion theme, comparing fairy tales to Bible stories: "When you were a kid and they were telling you whatever you believe in religion, do you think if they had switched the fairy tales that they read to you in bed with the Bible, you would know the difference? "Do you think if it was the fairy tale about a man who lived inside of a whale and it was religion that Jack built a beanstalk today, you would know the difference? Why do you believe in one fairy tale and not the other? Just because adults told you it was true and they scared you into believing it, at pain of death, at pain of burning in hell." Source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Who is Fred Phelps? Brother Phelps is a bigoted hate-filled asshole, um, I mean a fine Christian man who has made a career out of vocally and hatefully opposing homosexuality. His nauseating site is located here: http://www.godhatesfags.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I love America. I am just embarrassed that it has been taken over by people like evangelicals, by people who do not believe in science and rationality. I agree with Brother Maher completely. I'm a patriotic American, and I too am embarrassed by the anti-science, anti-intellectual fundies and what they have done and are doing to this country. I'm also embarrassed that the fundies have been allowed to take over this country. I'm all for freedom of religion, but when it comes to science or the education of our children, I do not believe that people's religious myths should be catered to at all. PERIOD. Ancient religious mythology and pre-scientific fairy tales do not equal REALITY, and religious fundamentalists should be forced to deal with this fact for their own good and for the good of our children and our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Some beliefs can cause or exacerbate mental problems, but I wouldn't so broadly classify all religions or all christians, or even all "fundys" as mental. But that Fred phelps guy is pretty damn mental! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe you feel that way, because we only eyeball individuals and are less aware of how people behave in groups. What groups are apathetic about, what are thier prejudices, what are there prioriies as a group. More often than not xian organizations distract everyone from the real issues and very rarely focus on how important this life really is. I like what Hans said. It makes so much sense to me. I agree with clergicide as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 When you spoke in "Tongues", did it mean anything to you? Pritish <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would say at the time it did. I felt that I was having a real connection with god. I have learned that it is nothing more than emotionalism. I look back and feel so STUPID for the way I acted. I don't feel that I was trying to deliberately fake it, in my mind I believed it was real....I wanted to believe it was real, I mean after all, god, the big guy in the sky was speaking through me! What christian wouldn't want that? (well, non-pentecosals wouldn't want to...lol) In pentecostalism, it is an manditory thing if you were one of them. When I first stepped foot in the pentecostal church, I saw a bunch of people speaking in the babble, and I thought that they were one fry short of a happy meal. (little did I know I was right) There is A LOT of pressure on someone that does not speak in tongues... and I mean A LOT. Just picture a bunch of people circling around you like a main attraction, babbling in your ear (not quietly mind you) and everyone has their hands on you praying for you to speak. I believe firmly that it is an emotional thing, they really make it a BIG deal, and I think that is the way that it starts to work in your mind....and the next thing you know... blah blah blah. A lot of emotional stress, it really is. I probably could rattle off if I wanted to, I just have no desire to even be reminded of that life. WHEW glad I am outta there!!!! Hope I made an ounce of sense??? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 WHEW glad I am outta there!!!! Hope I made an ounce of sense??? lol Oooh yeah! Yes you did make sense. I have a vivid flashback of the time back in the old days of prayer and falling, casting out demons and more... burrrrh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Oooh yeah! Yes you did make sense. I have a vivid flashback of the time back in the old days of prayer and falling, casting out demons and more... burrrrh... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have made a total JACK ASS out of myself more than once when it came to "devil bashing". Rebuking the devil, casting demons outta people (at the time that is what I thought) Oh yeah, a demon behind every bush you had to "set straight". I was an anointing oil toting idiot. I would leave that stuff around like territorial cat piss, to make sure no demon went on my turf. Like olive oil really has a magic ingredient in it? DUH? Oh the good ol' days........NOT SOOO in my STRONG opinion, religion... ESPECIALLY pentecostalism can make you a mental case. I know, because I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I have made a total JACK ASS out of myself more than once when it came to "devil bashing". Rebuking the devil, casting demons outta people (at the time that is what I thought) Oh yeah, a demon behind every bush you had to "set straight". I was an anointing oil toting idiot. I would leave that stuff around like territorial cat piss, to make sure no demon went on my turf. Like olive oil really has a magic ingredient in it? DUH? Oh the good ol' days........NOT You went the whole ten yards, I can tell. I only resorted to walking around the house shouting, screaming, praying in tongues, casting invisible demons out of paintings and walls and furniture... Damn... I must have been mentally ill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 You went the whole ten yards, I can tell. I only resorted to walking around the house shouting, screaming, praying in tongues, casting invisible demons out of paintings and walls and furniture... Damn... I must have been mentally ill... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, I can see you were a fellow "brother" for sure. Oh yeah, I look back and I am in so much disbelief. It is amazing what you see when you have your mind back. If someone did the stuff we have done in front of a doctor, I think they would have been in straight jacket and padded room! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Oh, I can see you were a fellow "brother" for sure. Oh yeah, I look back and I am in so much disbelief. It is amazing what you see when you have your mind back. If someone did the stuff we have done in front of a doctor, I think they would have been in straight jacket and padded room! Probably both the jacket AND the room. There are several more on this site that survived the holy fundy trip. For instance MadamM if my memory serves me right. I started in Pentecostal and ended in Word of Faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clergicide Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Maybe you feel that way, because we only eyeball individuals and are less aware of how people behave in groups. What groups are apathetic about, what are thier prejudices, what are there prioriies as a group. More often than not xian organizations distract everyone from the real issues and very rarely focus on how important this life really is. I like what Hans said. It makes so much sense to me. I agree with clergicide as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think part of the reason people don't see it as 'mental illness' is because the connotation of that phrase is more suggestive of a mother stoning her children to death because she heard the Lawd tell her to, then it is of something more mild. Certainly in those extremes the individuals were deeply troubled psychologically already. But not all mental illness is the full blown psychosis of running around naked in a tin hat, trying to bludgeon people to death with rubber dildos. Eating disorders, depression, attention deficits, etc are sometimes incredibly difficult to detect in a person, but that lack of outward illness doesn't make them any mentally healthier...unless compared directly to the dildo wielding maniac. Those other, harder to observe, illnesses are also sometimes triggered by societal influence, learned or reactive behavior, and are almost never caused by biochemical errors of the mind itself. The mob mentality of a cult makes the negative influence of it's teachings only that much stronger. People are more apt to accept things they otherwise wouldn't, and even believe them longer, then if the notion had been presented in a less overwhelming setting. Groupmind is fascinating, if not terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 When you spoke in "Tongues", did it mean anything to you? Pritish Actually I have to confess I never spoke in tongues, at least not without knowingly faking it. See I was about 12 when I was first exposed to the psychotic babbling known as being "slain in the spirit" and it freaked me out. Eventually I figured out that if people didn't see me doing it they might accuse me of being too firmly in Satan's grasp for salvation so if someone was looking at me I would start babbling like an idiot until they looked away. When it came to speaking in tongues, it seemed the more insane a person acted the more smiles and nods of approval the person got from the rest of the congregation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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