A Life With No Hope

[Deva]

Mike, I think much of this problem of hopelessness could be the age you are at now. Just the opinion of someone even older (51), you get to the point where you realize that there is only so much you can do to look good. Eventually we all start looking wrinkled and old and, lets face it, eventually not in such great shape. I believe that your fear of death is linked to your drive to work out so much. There may be other factors as well, but you want to preserve your body as it is now and you also now it just isn't going to work indefinitely so it all seems hopeless. Am I sort of close?

 

In middle age people take stock of their life. There is not all the time in the world left and that stark realization sets in. In addition the perception of time is altered. It appears to go faster and faster. If you are single with no family around you sometimes can't realize the years that have gone by. Its really rather weird. I am so isolated that the fact that many of my high school classmates are now grandparents is sort of shocking to me. I just joined facebook so have seen quite a few of their pictures and view their information about their families.

 

I would not be surprised if the "sociopathic tendencies" are not widespread among those of us raised in Christianity who have seen through it and rejected it. The impact is tremendous when you realize that those you loved and trusted, whether unknowingly or not, have forced this crap onto you. To find out it is all false is a huge blow and we all see and recognize that from reading the testimonies here. Why really trust anyone after seeing through this? I maintain a distance from people. I don't trust easily and am suspicious - I seem deep down to believe they want something from me, something I cannot give -- just like my parents. They wanted me to believe in Jesus.

 

Just throwing some thoughts out here - I don't have any answers. Somehow or another I continually find things that interest me or find myself going back to old hobbies. My many interests and always researching new areas of knowledge has kept me going.

[Mike D]

I believe it was the philosopher who said, "Live fast, die young, and make a pretty corpse."

 

There seems to be some wisdom to that position.

I won't argue with that!

[FreeLily]

There is always someone worse off than you so you should count your blessings, go out and find something positive to do, focus on others whatever you can do. Many folk are depressed indirectly as a result of the economy, but these things come to pass. Of course the theists doom and gloom paranoia say it is going to get worse. Some of the best of things have come out of the worst of times.

 

If that is any help?

Well this isn't so much situational depression.

 

It's more like apathy.

 

Apathy is very much a symptom of depression. I've had several major depressive episodes over the last 20+ years and IME, the worst part was the complete inability to enjoy *anything.* It's also a physically and mentally exhausting experience. It sucks your energy dry. It's true that there's always someone worse off, but when just getting through the daily motions is a Herculean effort, it's not realistic or healthy to try to do even more.

 

"Depression" is a wussy name for a powerful, complicated disease. You can't just "snap out of it" any more than a diabetic or a MS patient can "think" themselves out of an exacerbation. The good news is that it's relapsing/remitting and improves in time even without treatment. The bad news is, without treatment, it almost always comes back. It sounds like you take good care of yourself physically, which is great! If shrinks and pills make you nervous, you might want to check out some Eastern or holistic medicine practitioners. Drugs and therapy take time to work; in the meantime I swear by acupuncture and Reiki. I've no idea how it works, but you can literally feel the energy stirring and beginning to flow.

 

Other than that, take it easy on yourself. What's worked for me is to treat a depressive episode like any other acute illness -- get lots of rest, eat something healthy even if you can't taste it, watch cartoons all day, or just stare at a wall for hours. Don't feel guilty for it, and don't let anyone else try. It sucks to have to live with it, but this is the only life I get, and it can be managed. Hope that helps a little.

[HRDWarrior]

Depression tends to run in my family, and I've noticed that I can certainly tend towards it myself as well, especially when I start dwelling on where my life is at, my age, health, etc. Heck, there are times I will "fall apart" and just have a big ol' pitty party for one - and I've also come to realize that by allowing myself that occasional pitty party, I actually feel better afterwards. It may seem backwards, but by at least facing those thoughts that run around in the back of my mind, acknowledging their presence and giving them a chance to come out, they tend to not control me as much as they did before I restrained my occasional "moments."

 

Although I do seem to brush off a lot of things, there are things that I think I've brushed off but in reality have managed to sit in the back of my mind and festered. Without taking the time to deal with them, I was starting to feel pretty numb towards life as well. I didn't hate it by any means, but even now when I meet people who have fought through tough cancer battles or other illnesses I wonder if I really would care enough about living to want to fight that war.

 

But, since realizing that I am going to feel sorry for myself sometimes, it's freed me the rest of the time to enjoy what I do get to enjoy. Granted, I'll admit, I would love to live in a fantasy world - I read books, play video games, even make up stories in my own head, and of course most of that is far more glorious than real life. Oh well, I enjoy it, be it real or not! Again, however, by understanding this, when I am involved in real life I am much more involved with it. I'm not just "there" but actually really into it. Of course there are days, hell even weeks when that's not the case, but most of the time, I would say that I've managed to get to a point where I enjoy life.

 

Then again, I've also determined that I would rather die younger, faster, and healthier than old and weak spending the last months of my existence in a hospital or nursing home...

[Mike D]

There may be other factors as well, but you want to preserve your body as it is now and you also now it just isn't going to work indefinitely so it all seems hopeless. Am I sort of close?

I think age does have alot to do with it in the sense that I feel like my life has peaked. I was actually pretty content at around 35, my career was good, I was making boatloads of money, I had just bought an almost brand new 3,500 square foot custom home on a golf course in a Hilton resort, I had two expensive sports cars in the driveway, etc., etc., I didn't really have any complaints. Since then my life has completely gone to shit, I lost a huge amount of money, I quit my job, etc., I now live in an apartment and I am poor (well relatively speaking anyway). I am only working part time and I am going to be out of a job again and I have no idea what's going to happen to me then, maybe i'll be living under a bridge.

 

Add to that I am vain, I fully admit it. And unfortunately living in a place like LA, there's lots and lots of pretty people here and no shortage of vanity so you really have to be on top of your game. I don't delude myself I mean I know we're all going to get old at some point, but that doesn't mean I am not going to do my best to be as healthy as I can for as long as I can.

 

So to answer your question, I wouldn't say that's really a reason it's multiple factors that kind of all came together at this point in my life. It's sort of like a downward spiral that's just going to keep going down from here...

[tvaholic]

Not that I had much hope for anything when I was a Christian, but I have even less now.

 

There's nothing left but misery, disease and death.

 

What do I do? I've talked to people, nothing helps.

 

I feel trapped in life.

 

 

As someone how also has suffered from mild depression, I'd agree with some others that it's probably what you're dealing with. I heard so many horror stories about antidepressants, etc that I was afraid to take anything. I did see a therapist for a while but she was shitty and didn't help much. Her advice and my doctor's advice too was to exercise and get enough sleep. But I run 4 times a week and walk at least 1/2 hour twice a day, and I sleep 8 hours a night. So I started taking some natural herbs that are suppose to help with depression and they made a HUGE difference.

 

I didn't classify myself as depressed either because mine was like yours - I just didn't care. I wasn't sad or crying all the time like I thought depressed people would be. I also had that trapped feeling and like nothing mattered. I was ready to drive away and start a life all by myself somewhere because I figured nothing mattered.

 

The herbal supplements have really helped me snap out of the apathy.

[Dhampir]

Hey Mike. We had a similar convo about this a couple years ago. I have to admit, I feel the same way most of the time. I went from having long term goals, to having more realistic short-term goals, to having only one goal, which is to make enough money to improve my situation somewhat. It just seems like nothing about life is interesting, and seeing as I'm almost 20 years younger than you, I guess it's only downhill from here, if nothing about my outlook changes. The question is, what to do about it?

[bolianbob]

The question begs to be answered Mike: What are you hoping for?

Are you still thinking of hope in theistic terms? An afterlife to give you life more continuity? A God who loves you? Hope that everything has a place and a time in the grand cosmic scheme of things? I ask again, what are you hoping for?

 

I ask these questions, because like you, I am an ex-christian; and like you, christianty had given me so many false hopes, that when I finally left the faith, I didn't know where to turn; after all, if that hope was based on lies, then was hope itself a waste of time?

 

I was indeed depressed, distant and cold. And that's not to say I will never be depressed, distant or cold again. I am genetically pre-disposed to depression, as it runs deep in my family; the worst of it being the OCD component. Now, I take medication for my depression--not that I am always depressed. That coupled with a good dose of reality has done wonders for my mental health. Although, I am only 26 and in the life throws of youthful exuberance, I do not doubt that I too, will hit a wall in my middle age and again ponder my life's worth, with what time remains. I can only build and re-affirm, now, within my mind, that I am worthy of life, because I am the sole arbiter of my worth. And I give my life worth, faaaaaaaarrrrrrr more worth then any deity ever could.

 

I understand your vanity. Material and physical success, although not an evolutionary adaptation, are apart of us, particularity in North America. We all can freely admit to feeling the tug of pride in our fashionable belongings or our physical prowess; Once, where abundant food and shelter meant the survival of the group, now, owning an excess, and not just an excess, but the qualities of those excess, give the aurora of survival. 'Ohhh, look at all the fancy things you own. You're going to go far in life. Your life must be good.' And once, where physical strength meant longer life, power and authority, now, has morphed into what is physical vanity-- beautiful people are thought of as somewhat higher, or better then someone of average beauty; needless to mention the Hollywood phenomena. But these are just evolutionary left overs taking different forms to fit our current culture.

 

Gosh I am getting long winded, but what I want to say is that, not all evolutionary left overs are counter productive to our mental health. There is one, almighty gift that we humans are so fortunate to have, and it is our most precious belonging, and it should be treated with the utmost care, respect and awe. You have a mind that is so much greater then the things you used to own, or the job that you have now, or the money that is in your bank account. Those things in contrast to the mind are useless!

 

I've found such joy in knowledge, I can't begin to describe the mental revival that is happening within me. I mean, I speak as though there is you and me, and your mind and my mind, but in reality, you are your mind, I am my mind--there is no distinction.

 

I don't know what knowledge interests you, what subjects you could devour, but at this time in your life, you need to find something to keep you growing. You aren't dead yet Mike; the point of living is to live. Shed the remainder of what is holding you back from experiencing the remainder of your life and make it worth it. You heard me; YOU make it worth it. You have so much more validity to ensure your survival then you give yourself credit for.

[SairB]

Not that I had much hope for anything when I was a Christian, but I have even less now.

 

There's nothing left but misery, disease and death.

 

What do I do? I've talked to people, nothing helps.

 

I feel trapped in life.

 

 

Gosh, I really don't know what to say. I haven't read all the comments so far, so I may end up writing something that's already been covered, but all I can do is attempt to offer some kind of solace from relating something of my own experience.

 

Firstly, I would say that if you are struggling with despair, it's at least possible that you have some form of depression. It may be worth your while to seek counselling, even just to get a different perspective on life.

 

I have suffered from severe episodes of clinical depression, which I have now learnt to manage. What brought me back was not any kind of religious faith, but seeking connections to the physical world around me and to the people I love - and may have lost if I didn't try to haul myself back from the brink.

 

One of the biggest challenges in detaching from Christianity (assuming one doesn't just convert to another religion) is accepting that this life is all there is. But once you do, it brings a tremendous sense of liberation and power. We make our own purpose in life - we don't answer to a personal god who seems remarkably detached and impersonal (or at least always seemed so to me...). We answer to ourselves and to the people we care about.

 

Happiness is in the journey, not just the destination. If you're not content with your life as it is, do what you can to change it such that it contributes to your happiness. Engage with some kind of creative endeavour - like writing, art, cooking, building, music - whatever suits your personality and talents. Get acquainted with the philosophy of Epicurus - enjoy (in moderation) life's simple and inexpensive pleasures, like well-cooked food, good wine, the company of good friends and lovers, intellectual stimulation. Make happiness your life's quest, and you can't go far wrong.

[florduh]

Maybe it would help to realize how your complaining would sound to someone who is jobless and homeless, or living with a painful and terminal disease. What would a quadriplegic think of your "terrible" situation? The man who lost his child to a drunk driver? I think you offend people who have real problems. You're just bored, unmotivated, a little depressed, and looking for a magic wand. Depression is treatable and motivation is found in making meaningful commitments. To snap you out of the funk you might try something like being a Big Brother, volunteering at Hospice, or helping Meals on Wheels take desperately needed food to elderly shut-ins. If you can force yourself take responsibility for someone else you will eventually take responsibility for yourself. Purpose comes from helping others.

[HRDWarrior]

I just wanted to add that if you aren't, getting involved in some sort of volunteer work may also be very helpful for you. Pick something you are interested in, and invest some time, energy, and effort into something that doesn't have to do with you. Often times we get so wrapped up in the problems of our lives that we miss what it going on around us. When our focus gets too narrow (us) our lives do lose a lot of meaning. For some people, their family fills that gap, but even then I sometimes feel like we need to get out of "our life" and see and be involved in something outside of that. There was a period of time when I wasn't doing any sort of volunteer work and wasn't involved in any organizations - during that time, my outlook was worse. We really do need that connection to the world around us rather than just occasionally brushing against it....

 

There are so many places that need help, and can cost you nothing more than the time you invest. For myself, I prefer working with animals over people, so I volunteer and foster for a german shepherd rescue. Seeing the pain, suffering, and joy of being loved from these dogs reminds me of the suffering around me that I am often immune to. Although it doesn't give me "hope" for my life, it does give my life more meaning. The rescue pays for everything, the only money I spend is some gas to drive myself and/or my foster dog to adoption days twice a month.

 

I guess since I've never really been in the position of being comfortable financially, I can't really relate to the feeling of my life having had its "peak" cause I'm still hoping (but not counting on) reaching a somewhat better situation!

 

Since you're so into physical fitness, volunteering to teach or assist at your local Y or city childrens programs may be a great way to get involved.

[Mike D]

Maybe it would help to realize how your complaining would sound to someone who is jobless and homeless, or living with a painful and terminal disease. What would a quadriplegic think of your "terrible" situation? The man who lost his child to a drunk driver?

Yup, I am just a complainer and a whiner, boo hoo hoo look at my life it's soooooo awful!

 

Depressed people have nooooo reason to complain!

 

I think you offend people who have real problems.

I initially typed up a very nasty response to this, but honestly I don't give a fuck.

[Mike D]

Fuck this, I am done with this thread.

 

Can a mod please close or delete the thread. Thank you.

[florduh]

I thought you wanted motivation to change. Sorry.

[Mike D]

.

I thought you wanted motivation to change. Sorry.

Oh I see. So by marginalizing/trivializing me you thought that would be great motivation for me to change?

 

Oh wait, according to you there's nothing to change, I don't have any "real" problems.

 

I'm just a whiner and complainer.

 

What a fucking asshole.

[Centauro]

Mike D,

 

PBS here in the US has just started a series on emotions, depression and happiness.

I found it very insightful and helpful. I have viewed all three episodes and it has been an eye opener. The series is called "The Emotional Life." Check it out. It may give you some perspective on what you are feeling right now. Good Luck..

 

Here is the link. http://video.pbs.org/program/1142148877

 

I hope this helps..

 

Centauro

[Centauro]

the podcasts are available on the website...

[FreeLily]

Maybe it would help to realize how your complaining would sound to someone who is jobless and homeless, or living with a painful and terminal disease. What would a quadriplegic think of your "terrible" situation? The man who lost his child to a drunk driver? I think you offend people who have real problems. You're just bored, unmotivated, a little depressed, and looking for a magic wand. Depression is treatable and motivation is found in making meaningful commitments. To snap you out of the funk you might try something like being a Big Brother, volunteering at Hospice, or helping Meals on Wheels take desperately needed food to elderly shut-ins. If you can force yourself take responsibility for someone else you will eventually take responsibility for yourself. Purpose comes from helping others.

 

Depressive illness IS a "real problem," and your dismissive attitude is both offensive and ignorant.

[Deva]

Since then my life has completely gone to shit, I lost a huge amount of money, I quit my job, etc., I now live in an apartment and I am poor (well relatively speaking anyway). I am only working part time and I am going to be out of a job again and I have no idea what's going to happen to me then, maybe i'll be living under a bridge.

 

Mike I didn't realize you were facing these circumstances. That's a tough situation. I would probably be quite depressed too, if this happened to me. Sorry to hear it, perhaps the economic situation will improve, at least I hope that you can find some relatively stable employment soon.

[Kathlene]

Depression is an illness. It affects everything about you. So while everyone on here is offering Mike suggestions to go out and get a life, volunteer, do yada yada the thing is...he probably cant if he is really depressed. It is real and when you are in it, you can barely function, let alone look outside to other people and deal with their problems too. I mean I dont even know if Mike is depressed. The consensus on here says he is. Well if he is dont expect him to do karate kicks and change the world. Medication would be a good idea just to regain a bit of balance. Maybe going for walks getting fresh air and being around supportive people is maybe just about all he could handle.

Mike I hope everything goes ok.

Regards,

Kathlene