CHRISTIANS, I have a question for you

[Vixentrox]

But just being a good person, even in that broad definition, doesn't quite grant a seat at the table does it?  Which is the ultimate elitest judgement...

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Not only that, being a good person often means damnation....if you didn't belive in the One TRue Faith (take your pick). In fact, Xtians would rather have a Stalin that converted on a death bed than a kind humanitarian that lived thier life in an exemplery manner who didn't happen to belive in walking dead guys.

[dogmatically_challenged]

Not only that, being a good person often means damnation....if you didn't belive in the One TRue Faith (take your pick).  In fact, Xtians would rather have a Stalin that converted on a death bed than a kind humanitarian that lived thier life in an exemplery manner who didn't happen to belive in walking dead guys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The few religions that encourage an internal sprituality and focuses less on telling others what they MUST believe usually has plenty of room for naturalists and other relgionists alike. At the very least these few religions have no beef with unbelief and are more interested in personal flaws and merits alone.

 

No religion is perfect, but Xianity is by far less than perfect.

[Purple]

Every Christian is the wrong kind of Christian to some Christian.

 

 

Gads isn't that the truth! Thats why I took to calling it church roulette (I have no clue if I spelled it right) Spin the wheel, choose a church, sure hope you choose the right one, or you STILL may be going to Hell.

[TruthWarrior]

I think this fear of judgement replaces the fear of death for christians. Now they fear judging others also, because they might be judged guilty for judging people wrong.

 

TAP, this might help you. Or confuse the heck out of you. Eh, worth a try.

 

Basically the bible says you can judge. Shit the whole bible is all judgement. Look at freaking Paul, the super-christian, for god's sake! "Do this, don't do that, oooh and not that,... you people should repent!" If you do judge, which you do, just do it right. Jesus says "judge not, lest you be judged", oooh big scary, makes every little christian afraid of judging and being, god forbid, "judgemental". I think it's just a warning to those hypocrites who judge, and those who judge wrongly, like out of prejudice. So it's a warning saying "you too will be judged".

 

Ya hear that Pat? A good example Old Pat Robertson is. He judged a great hurricane to come and punish gays in Florida for daring to have Gay Day. First hurricane of the season rolls in (Bonnie), and hits directly on Virginia Beach, Old Pat's headquarters.

 

Christians saying this or that's city's destruction = babylon doesn't suprise me. They've been saying the same about every destroyed city since Jerusalem's destruction in 70ad. They say "Ah ha! Anytime now...God's gonna end the world any moment!" A few years pass, nothing happens, then another city is destroyed, "Ah ha! Anytime now...God's gonna end the world any moment now!"

 

Really not a big deal. Nonbelievers shouldn't burst a blood vessel over it along with their christian foes. Not worth the stress. Unless they are planning to destroy a city themselves, it's all meaningless talk of little weeny meanies trying to get attention and scare people.

 

40,000 years ago:

 

Oog, look... big thunder! Gods are angry! We appease them now with silly dance and sing babble song! Gods happy when we dance for them.

[Panther]

You're right.

I give up.

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Tap, I think this is one of those "between a rock and a hard place" places. I certainly respect your opinion as a person, but can appreciate how this has to be hard on you at times.

 

I am glad to know that you share the outrage at what some of the christians are saying about the storm.

I was very much like that when I was a christian......it got to be too much for me after a while.

 

Anyway, just thought you might want a hug.

[Clergicide]

Instead of giving up on fighting against intolerance and injustice, give in to apostacy; so that you can do what is in your heart with out the dead weight of an inconsistent, contradictory, partially immoral holy book. If you use scripture against thier scripture you will get no were other than proving that the philosophy of jesus is a little contradictory and very inconsistent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's ignorant and irresponsible not to judge others at all. That's not to say people should fixate on being the judge of others(like people who watch Judge Judy). But as DC said, if you do what's in your heart and gut you'll have a very definite sense of correct and incorrect behavior. These people that made you angry with how callously they were explaining away this tragedy obviously struck a nerve. No one should be afraid to say "Hey, that's fucked up. That's one of the least empathic things I've ever heard, you uncaring dickhead. I'll bet if you had family there you wouldn't have the balls to pass that judgement, you sick Christian asshole." etc etc. Only by keeping these sick fucks in check can society move forward. They are comfortable with their mob mentality groups that suggest this behavior is ok..it's dangerous not to tell them otherwise.

[Totallyatpeace]

I think this fear of judgement replaces the fear of death for christians. Now they fear judging others also, because they might be judged guilty for judging people wrong. 

 

TAP, this might help you. Or confuse the heck out of you. Eh, worth a try. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's interesting that you sent me to that link. My discernment was once considered my greatest strength.

 

Thank you, TW.

[Checkmate]

I suppose I'd have to give you a glimpse into my life to know who I'm talking about but even I, can't judge a person's heart.

TAP, I apologize in advance for being brusque, but I MUST say that I’m fed up with the Christian apologetic/excuse that says, “I can’t JUDGE someone else’s HEART.” That is a load of bologna (baloney, if you prefer) and is a cheesy way out of excusing and ignoring who you KNOW to be evil/wrong.

 

I make this accusation predicated upon what “Jesus” himself taught you about "How To Spot a Wicked Person."

 

Matthew 12:33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.

 

 

Matthew 15:16 So Jesus said, "Are you also still without understanding? 17 "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 "These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

 

 

Luke 6: 43 "For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 "For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. 45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

 

 

So…in light of THESE scriptures (pay heed to the bold words), you are going to attempt to tell me that you CANNOT KNOW that EVIL rests in the hearts of these people?

 

The WORDS they speak ISSUE from their HEARTS! You now have more than sufficient evidence to judge them! I don’t see your problem. You certainly CAN “judge their hearts”. Simply LISTEN to their WORDS and JUDGE accordingly.

[dario]

I would have to agree with Tap on this issue. It also pisses me off to hear that other "Christians" would say that the city of New Orleans deserved this disaster for its wickedness. Its funny because this wickedness they talk about i.e, sexual immorality, drunkenness, are the same sins that they have most likely struggled with. It really makes me think about how many Christians are out there that think this way. And I can't explain to you why they think this way. But I just wanted to let you all know that I don't believe that this was "due" punishment.

[Ouroboros]

You bet that the day we get the big earthquake in California, it will be because God wanted to punish the gays in Laguna Beach, LA and SF.

 

But I'd like to turn these things around, and say that God punished the unfaithful Christians in N.O. Because they were so dogmatic, uncaring and unloving to the homosexuals, sinful and homeless. It's totally reasonable to assume that instead! Isn't it?

[Guest queen annie]

I think so! What's good for the goose is good for the gander, is what my granny always said.

 

Well, where does Jerry Falwell live? Does he say that stuff, too? I don't know the names of any other preacher-men but I wonder what they will say when disaster hits them or theirs?

 

As if disaster isn't a part of life.

 

BTW, what's a memetist?

[JeffXL]

I don't remember anything in the Bible or in theology about how one is supposed to *know* whether this is a punishment from monstergod.

 

It fits the pattern of God's love of pain and bloodshed, but do those who spew this crap say that God spoke to them? He left some card? How?

 

Looks to me like they just made it up. Like everything else in religion.

[Guest Xaun]

Hypocrits abound inside those church walls.. Amazingly enough there are even more outside... oh wait.. thats right they don't live inside they do go out too.. but no seriously... it has always disgusted me when people have tried to use the "god is punishing them" line of crap.

 

When I was raised in xtian churches I remember reading that to claim to know gods will, likeness, image and so on was in its own right a sin. Things like the passing of judgements is a way to scare people into the pues. I mean for example, church hit an all time record high in the number of attendees after 9/11. Then as is normal it sloped and returned to more normal levels.

 

The funniest part of the bible is not the contradictions or the incongruities its that the last chapter its self states that in the "end of times" as most xtians believe it is... that the "church" in these proposed end times will be corrupt and evil and worthy of destruction... soo to be a xtian and go to church, believing that its the end days and that the institution that they entrust their faith and weekly tithes to is not corrupted.. makes me wonder which lunatic is more certifiable the "backsliden" or the "blindsided".

[Christopher Carrion]

by the same logic that "god is punishing" those dying and suffering in the current L.A disasters, then surely everytime a Christian catches a cold, or contracts diabetes, or cancer, or lets them get hit by a car, or fall ovcer, or lose their wallet, or get caught in the rain without a coat etc etc and so on and so forth, he is also "punishing" them? This is the kind of self-fulfilling sadism that makes Christians and Christianity in itself objectionable. What they also don't seem to realise is that they are alienating anyone with any semblance of moral objectivity and further underlining the perspectives of people like myself that Christianity is a psychologically perverse ideology, and one only Islam rivals in terms of its utter selfishness.

[Guest queen annie]

The following is addressed mainly to those who object to the attitude of christians, who say such unfeeling things being discussed in this thread, yet continue to ally themselves with that same general group of people:

 

IF, theoretically, the label 'christian' is held to mean a person who strives to walk in the footsteps and example of the Christ--which means loving all men, 'good' and 'bad', black and white, rich or poor, smart or dumb, 'friend' or 'foe', etc...

YET, around 99% of the current population of those who claim that label applies to them show no regard whatsoever for making the definition valid--instead prefering to redefine it as the total polar opposition to all principles set forth by the Christ...

THEN , pray tell, where does that leave the soul who truly endeavors to love all other souls alike while at the same time are able to 'by the reason of use have both their senses exercised to discern both good and evil?'

 

Does your conscience prick you to refuse to remain amongst those who falsely claim a name, which by doing so, causes the name you uphold to become guilty by association? Or do you feel there is possibility of making something 'defiled' and 'unclean' into something 'clean' and 'pure' by your continued presence? If you are uncertain, refer to Haggai 2:11-13.

 

When God says 'come out of her, my people' is He talking to you?

 

The only 'fair warning' I see being given is the one to any one who truly holds love as the ideal, which means truly keeping the commandment given to all those who would choose the path of the Christ. Names mean nothing when taken on by men--but nevertheless they make or break the hearts of many when falsely used to war against what is truly 'right' and 'good'. LOVE is the only thing that matters.

[Lizard]

by the same logic that "god is punishing" those dying and suffering in the current L.A disasters, then surely everytime a Christian catches a cold, or contracts diabetes, or cancer, or lets them get hit by a car, or fall ovcer, or lose their wallet, or get caught in the rain without a coat etc etc and so on and so forth, he is also "punishing" them? This is the kind of self-fulfilling sadism that makes Christians and Christianity in itself objectionable. What they also don't seem to realise is that they are alienating anyone with any semblance of moral objectivity and further underlining the perspectives of people like myself that Christianity is a psychologically perverse ideology, and one only Islam rivals in terms of its utter selfishness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, no, no..you don't understand how it works!

 

If it happens to a christian, they are being tested..not punished. Because the trying/testing makes them stronger, right?

 

I would have to wonder though..two people walking down the street. One a christian, one not.

 

They go to cross said street and get hit by a bus. Both survive. Was one tested and the other punished?

 

And the elderly and handicapped that perished..yeah, they needed the punishment/testing right?

[Totallyatpeace]

But I'd like to turn these things around, and say that God punished the unfaithful Christians in N.O. Because they were so dogmatic, uncaring and unloving to the homosexuals, sinful and homeless. It's totally reasonable to assume that instead! Isn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

HanSolo~~

 

Would you believe I agree with this?

[Amanda]

FWIW, it seems to me that Jesus didn't teach us that we can do anything to change environmental circumstances (except once when he stopped the storm). I think the thrust of his teachings is to emphasize unity and to change the inner experience. We can't stop the hurricane, but we can collectively change how we prepare/respond. God is about creating overcomers... and I think we ALL have lessons to learn from this incident. I'm sure we won't agree on what they all are, nor the priority of each one...

 

Sure, some Christians may be claiming NO got what they deserved... but I have heard other people make comments that NO got what they deserved, as they should of known better than to build under sealevel on the coast, or to not leave in time. Now, I still don't think those NO people deserved that disaster, even by that criteria! Why would those people say that?

 

Judging, we can judge... yet judge to victory, IMO. What good does it do to condemn people? Jesus only condemned those that condemned. How can condemnation lead to solutions?

 

Are we discerning ways to treat the next natural disaster differently? Do these events stir immense compassion? I think ALL of us saw that it could of been anyone of us... no matter economic status, race, age, gender, or religous affiliation... natural disasters have no prejudices. Perhaps it's the great equalizer?

[Angel]

I personally feel that a lot of christians with this mindset, use this situation to get more converts...scare them into the pew. What better way then to show someone just how big their god is? If you don't listen to him, this will happen to you. Me, I feel that if you are telling me that god is love, blah blah blah, then in the same breath tell me that he caused this horrific event because of some sort of punishment, that is just plain hypocritical. That would make him a mass murderer and more evil than satan. That would be the same thinking as this:

Someone in your town was a homosexual, gambler, and/or drinker. Because of his "naughty" behavior, the law came in and blasted the whole town away for one man's "sin". That is just CRAZY. Kinda falls under the same thing with the whole Adam story at the garden of eden. Just because one man "screwed up" all of us are paying for it...gee, when you think of it that way, I can see why they think god would do that??? I am SOOOOO SOOOO SOOO glad that I am not a christian anymore. UGH!!!