Letter To My Parents

[Vigile]

Personally I have not came out to my parents, they are old and It wouldn't serve much purpose now. But if I had and they were to give me too much heck about it, I would remind them that I walked and lived in the Church community, listened to thousands of sermons, and witnessed first hand the true lives of many christians, including themselves. Yet I saw no "fruit of god" I never witnessed any power that the holy spirit reportably gives the christian. I witnessed no healing of the sick, no raising of the dead, no walking on water.

I saw no mountains moved, only claims of emotion.

 

If the bible were true, and I truly lived amongst hundreds of saints and apostles as claimed, I would necessarily have to be awed by god's presence that I would have seen. But I was not awed, everything instead simple pointed to mass delusion.

 

That's what I would say.

 

I like that. Every now and then someone posts something really unique. I think this is one of those times.

[buffettphan]

Here's the e-mail I got from my mom this morning. Surprising.

 

.... So don't expect us to keep silent about it.

 

I also think this sounds like a potential challenge. Personally, I'd rather not have that kind of conversation with my 78 yr old mother. If she started up on the religion issue, I'd smile and remind her of the old adage she taught me -- Politics and religion are not subjects to be discussed in polite company. It would be different if she really wanted an open conversation/discussion. But I know she wants me back in church. No if's and's or but's. No discussion.

 

If you do decide to engage in this conversation, good luck and be prepared. And if you don't mind, please let us know how it goes.

[Ouroboros]

Here's the e-mail I got from my mom this morning. Surprising.

I think that was a very good response by your parents. They show a healthy level of understanding and acceptance. They might be challenging you and question you, but they still show they love you.

[Seeking]

Honestly, I was expecting a bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth, so I was relieved by their response!

 

My parents (who are in their late-50s/early 60s) are 100% Calvinists in that they fully believe in predestination/election and believe that everyone is absolutely dead in sin, and no one can choose to believe or disbelieve. God alone decides on whom to bestow the gift of salvation and faith. So, if it comes down to it and my parents start trying to convince me or argue me into belief, I can just remind them of what they say they believe.

 

But the main thing I hope to get across to them if they do insist on discussing this is that: 1) I did not choose this, and 2) it's not as though I believe, deep down, that God is there, and I'm "judging" and rejecting him. I am no more "sitting in judgment of God" than she is sitting in judgment of Zeus.

 

Thank you all for your support!

[Hungrydingo]

Here's the e-mail I got from my mom this morning. Surprising.

 

No, I've not forgotten you, disowned you, or given up on you. I've just been a little stunned, although I don't know why. This is truly not a big surprise to me.

 

Contrary to what people may have told you, none of us can conjure up faith. People can put on a huge show, but that's not faith. But how dare we sit in judgment of God; rather, it is He who rules the universe, and He will sit in judgment of us. We have nothing He needs, nothing He wants. He doesn't owe us a single breath of air. All we can do is cry out to Him for mercy. And He is merciful.

 

I still can't wait to see you guys, and I'm sure we'll have lots of good discussion. Just remember: we are your parents, we love you hugely, and we are utterly convinced that God not only exists, but that He works in the lives of His people (and in the lives of others to accomplish His will) and directs the course of this earth. So don't expect us to keep silent about it.

 

Brilliant! That brought a small tear to my eyes. Having read so many horrible scenarios on this site I'm so happy your parents have chosen to love you first in spite of their beliefs.

 

Eh it doesn't sound like this one is over yet, especially when taking in lines like 'he works in the lives of his people to accomplish his will', 'we'll have lots of good discussion', and 'don't expect us to keep silent about it.'

[★ Citsonga ★]

Contrary to what people may have told you, none of us can conjure up faith. People can put on a huge show, but that's not faith.

 

At least your mother understands that you can't force yourself to believe something. That's a good start.

 

We have nothing He needs, nothing He wants....

 

So don't expect us to keep silent about it.

 

This seems to be a bit of a discrepancy to me. If they try to get pushy with you about god, then you could just remind them that your mother specifically said that you have nothing that god needs or even wants.

 

I still can't wait to see you guys.... Just remember: we are your parents, we love you hugely

 

It sounds like you have good parents. Misinformed by religion, but good nonetheless.

 

Good luck with their visit.

[Alice]

Hi there,

 

I'm just struck by the fact that different people have read the same response from your parents and to some extent 'heard' very different things :-)

 

I agree with all the advice that's about keeping things calm, demonstrating to your parents that you are still the same loving, respectful and compassionate person they know.

 

I would say to be careful about saying you feel more compassionate now - as they might hear this as a criticsm ...

 

really hope it goes well

 

Alice

[Deva]

Seeking, I see the e-mail overall as a positive development. The parents still say they love you and won't disown you.

 

As far as the statement "don't expect us to keep quiet," I think you have the right to say the subject is not up for discussion if they start in on you. It sounds like discussion of religion is not something that would be productive, but much would depend on their approach. If it sounds like a bid for genuine understanding, then you could participate, but if not, it would probably be better to bow out.

 

Of course they are free to discuss it as much as they want with each other, but they know where you stand.

[Phanta]

Great letters, Seeking & DB3!

 

And perhaps the biggest thing I want is acceptance. You know, for the real me.

 

That seems to be what most people want. I hope you find some of that.

 

Well, after much deliberating (and consulting my atheist aunt (mother's sister)), I decided to send the letter (e-mail) this morning. This is still 10 days out from their visit. Knowing my parents, I realized there was no way it wouldn't come out during their time here, and I thought it would be easier for them to deal with the initial shock while still at home surrounded by their support network than it would be for them to deal with it here, 1000 miles from home, with nowhere to go and no one to turn to.

 

Great job! How brave of you.

 

Here's the e-mail I got from my mom this morning. Surprising.

 

No, I've not forgotten you, disowned you, or given up on you. I've just been a little stunned, although I don't know why. This is truly not a big surprise to me.

 

Contrary to what people may have told you, none of us can conjure up faith. People can put on a huge show, but that's not faith. But how dare we sit in judgment of God; rather, it is He who rules the universe, and He will sit in judgment of us. We have nothing He needs, nothing He wants. He doesn't owe us a single breath of air. All we can do is cry out to Him for mercy. And He is merciful.

 

I still can't wait to see you guys, and I'm sure we'll have lots of good discussion. Just remember: we are your parents, we love you hugely, and we are utterly convinced that God not only exists, but that He works in the lives of His people (and in the lives of others to accomplish His will) and directs the course of this earth. So don't expect us to keep silent about it.

 

That's great that they still love you! The last sentence sets off some alarms with me, as with others here.

 

I would add one little suggestion - since this is so fresh to your parents visit, I would at least put debates of religion/belief/theology on hold at least until they have left. Tell them you will be respectful and understanding of their beliefs, but are hoping they can treat you with the same respect at least for the length of the visit...

 

I also think this sounds like a potential challenge. Personally, I'd rather not have that kind of conversation with my 78 yr old mother. If she started up on the religion issue, I'd smile and remind her of the old adage she taught me -- Politics and religion are not subjects to be discussed in polite company. It would be different if she really wanted an open conversation/discussion. But I know she wants me back in church. No if's and's or but's. No discussion.

 

Eh it doesn't sound like this one is over yet, especially when taking in lines like 'he works in the lives of his people to accomplish his will', 'we'll have lots of good discussion', and 'don't expect us to keep silent about it.'

 

Seeking, I see the e-mail overall as a positive development. The parents still say they love you and won't disown you.

 

As far as the statement "don't expect us to keep quiet," I think you have the right to say the subject is not up for discussion if they start in on you. It sounds like discussion of religion is not something that would be productive, but much would depend on their approach. If it sounds like a bid for genuine understanding, then you could participate, but if not, it would probably be better to bow out.

 

Of course they are free to discuss it as much as they want with each other, but they know where you stand.

 

All of these posters are catching the possible maneuvering your parents are about to do. Discussion for understanding is VERY different from discussion to change a person. Are they wanting to "not keep quiet" because praising God is part of who they are? Or are the wanting to "not keep quiet" meaning they are prepared to challenge your beliefs and thinking? If the latter, how do you feel about being at the other end of that?

 

I admire that you sent the letter ahead of time. Great job!

 

Phanta

[Seeking]

Are they wanting to "not keep quiet" because praising God is part of who they are? Or are the wanting to "not keep quiet" meaning they are prepared to challenge your beliefs and thinking? If the latter, how do you feel about being at the other end of that?

 

I told them I was willing to talk about it if they want, but I'm really not sure what their plan is regarding discussion. As I mentioned above, according to their own very-strongly-held theological beliefs, we are all completely dead in sin and cannot choose to believe. Only God can give faith. So I don't know what the point would be of them trying to argue me into belief.

 

On the other hand, in an e-mail to my sister (they don't know she's an atheist, too!), my Mom wrote, "Faith comes from the gospel. It is not something we conjure up ourselves or a warm, fuzzy feeling we get. It's trusting that what God says is true. Ignore God's Word and faith dies." (emphasis mine) That last sentence seems to me to blatantly contradict what they say they believe about election!! I guess what this tells me is that they (obviously) won't be completely rational about this.

 

Ugh.

[Deva]

I told them I was willing to talk about it if they want, but I'm really not sure what their plan is regarding discussion. As I mentioned above, according to their own very-strongly-held theological beliefs, we are all completely dead in sin and cannot choose to believe. Only God can give faith. So I don't know what the point would be of them trying to argue me into belief.

 

Ugh is right. I just want to say its hard to imagine a more bleak, dismal and utterly hopeless view of life. At least it is for me. Thinking of the billions of humans on earth that don't believe. Makes me wonder how they can deal with it and I feel sorry for them.

[★ Citsonga ★]

On the other hand, in an e-mail to my sister (they don't know she's an atheist, too!), my Mom wrote, "Faith comes from the gospel. It is not something we conjure up ourselves or a warm, fuzzy feeling we get. It's trusting that what God says is true. Ignore God's Word and faith dies." (emphasis mine) That last sentence seems to me to blatantly contradict what they say they believe about election!! I guess what this tells me is that they (obviously) won't be completely rational about this.

 

On the surface it seems contradictory, but Calvinism stresses that christians are saved by grace, not simply by faith. In other words, at least some Calvinists will say that it's possible for some non-elect to sincerely believe the gospel and then cease believing and end up in hell, but that they were never really "saved" since they were not of the "elect" and god's "grace" wasn't extended to them, even though they actually had "faith."

 

As I mentioned above, according to their own very-strongly-held theological beliefs, we are all completely dead in sin and cannot choose to believe. Only God can give faith. So I don't know what the point would be of them trying to argue me into belief.

 

It may be best to just stress that, if indeed they do try to start some sort of debate.

[Brakeman]

And if they get too rowdy, soak 'em with the water hose!

[HRDWarrior]

On the surface it seems contradictory, but Calvinism stresses that christians are saved by grace, not simply by faith. In other words, at least some Calvinists will say that it's possible for some non-elect to sincerely believe the gospel and then cease believing and end up in hell, but that they were never really "saved" since they were not of the "elect" and god's "grace" wasn't extended to them, even though they actually had "faith."

 

 

 

This was the form of Calvinism that I had...that if someone lost their faith then they were probably never saved to begin with. Which now means by own past beliefs that I just wasn't special enough in god's eyes to save lol! I made the mistake of pointing that out on a christian forum once....needless to say, the post got removed - apparently it's okay to believe those things about other people, but not about yourself

[CelticWhisper]

As far as the statement "don't expect us to keep quiet," I think you have the right to say the subject is not up for discussion if they start in on you.

 

Absolutely. A thousand times over. Remember that it's your home they're in when they start "refusing to keep quiet," and no matter how far they've come, you make the rules and they can obey you or get the hell out.

 

Be civil as far as you can, of course. Just don't be afraid to put your foot down.

[Seeking]

Just in case someone stumbles across this in the future and wants to know how the visit went: Here's a follow-up thread!