Where Science And Buddhism Meet

[NotBlinded]

Isn't this section a place to where those of us that do believe in some other form of spiritualism can come and be safe from the woo-woo police?

 

and if the ideas presented are misrepresenting what they are claimed to be?

Of course there is nothing wrong with discussion. I'm talking about things like this:

 

Shit like this just feeds ignorance.

Sounds to me like you are a proponent of "everything is just an illusion, there is no reality" bullshit.

Oh, dear me, the stuff the human animal comes up with, never ceases to amaze me.

 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream merrily merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream.

 

Sigh

 

Major Tom still at it, perfecting his bullshit I see. Maybe one day he will give Deepak Chopra a run for his money.

 

I'm sorry Rodney, but these sound personal to me.

 

I know I wouldn't feel comfortable in here talking about my beliefs with remarks such as these in a place that we are supposed to feel comfortable discussing them.

[lunaticheathen]

NB, I get what you're talking about, which is why sometimes I hesitate to say certain things on this forum. I get over it occasionally, and it's alright, but then it starts to feel like the atheist club. I don't want to be in the atheist club, but I feel I have a right to the ex-christian club, even if I have shrines to goddesses and ancestors, and dance to African drummers.

So I can see where quantum physics and many schools of mysticism meet. But that makes me stupid. Doesn't encourage me to post in the forum CALLED Ex-christian THEISM AND SPIRITUALITY.

[Shyone]

NB, I get what you're talking about, which is why sometimes I hesitate to say certain things on this forum. I get over it occasionally, and it's alright, but then it starts to feel like the atheist club. I don't want to be in the atheist club, but I feel I have a right to the ex-christian club, even if I have shrines to goddesses and ancestors, and dance to African drummers.

So I can see where quantum physics and many schools of mysticism meet. But that makes me stupid. Doesn't encourage me to post in the forum CALLED Ex-christian THEISM AND SPIRITUALITY.

If I danced to African drummers, I'd be in a lot better shape.

 

Paganism is very physical, isn't it?

[florduh]

Paganism is very physical, isn't it?

I got an image of a holy roller church my dad dragged me to as a kid. Pagans, or even Olympic athletes, might have a hard time keeping up with them!

[lunaticheathen]

If I danced to African drummers, I'd be in a lot better shape.

 

Paganism is very physical, isn't it?

 

Yes and no.

Yes, there are lots of physical practices to excite energy and involvement with the spirit. And deity and spirit are ingrained in the physical, so to be involved with the immaterial, the material is a sure route to get there. So most pagan beliefs involve the immaterial, but since everything is connected, you don't have to shun the material to get there. In fact, it's rather foolish to do so. When an pantheist says All is Divine, they quite mean it.

Also, we don't mind "unbelievers" joining in. It's all energy in the end!

[lunaticheathen]

Paganism is very physical, isn't it?

I got an image of a holy roller church my dad dragged me to as a kid. Pagans, or even Olympic athletes, might have a hard time keeping up with them!

 

You've never been to a Vodou rite, obviously.

[NotBlinded]

NB, I get what you're talking about, which is why sometimes I hesitate to say certain things on this forum. I get over it occasionally, and it's alright, but then it starts to feel like the atheist club. I don't want to be in the atheist club, but I feel I have a right to the ex-christian club, even if I have shrines to goddesses and ancestors, and dance to African drummers.

So I can see where quantum physics and many schools of mysticism meet. But that makes me stupid. Doesn't encourage me to post in the forum CALLED Ex-christian THEISM AND SPIRITUALITY.

You are not stupid. If you are then I am too because many, many things you say (as your post after this) I agree with and understand what you are saying. The material and immaterial are one, IMO. The material exists in "something" after all. Or is that the "nothing" the Buddhists speak of?

 

Rev Rodney?

[Rev R]

It will take more time than I have available at this second to reply. I'll try when I get out of work.

[NotBlinded]

It will take more time than I have available at this second to reply. I'll try when I get out of work.

Thanks Rodney.

 

You know I sincerely love it when you post.

[Rev R]

It will take more time than I have available at this second to reply. I'll try when I get out of work.

Thanks Rodney.

 

You know I sincerely love it when you post.

 

It's nice to be loved.

 

Ok so “emptiness”. Sorry it took so long. Hopefully it whets your appetite.

 

Emptiness developed from the idea of no-self (anatman). The idea is that no matter how hard you search, however you dissect your mind or body, there is no thing you can point to as an independent or intrinsic self. That which we think of as “I” is interdependent and interpenetrated with our genetics, our society, our relationships, our habits...the list goes on and on. Emptiness just takes that line of thinking and applies it to all phenomena. At it's heart, the teaching of emptiness is not the teaching of non-existence, but rather the teaching that we are all connected in a complex web of interrelationships and interactions.

 

I suppose you could say that sunyata is a “ground of being” in a sense, but it is definitely not an end or a thing in itself. It's skillful means, an idea to hone our focus. If considering emptiness in terms of the quantum field helps one wrap their mind around it, that is all fine and good. However, I don't think equating the two ideas is very helpful in the long run.

 

The focus of Buddhist practice is not the insight into emptiness or non-self or impermanence, it is learning to apply this insight in our dealings with each other. As I said in that quote, it's about moving through the world more than it's about how the world is.

 

Whether or not we go for the so-called “woo” or keep a hard rational materialist stance (though the Way is found in neither), it still comes down to chopping wood and carrying water.

[NotBlinded]

It will take more time than I have available at this second to reply. I'll try when I get out of work.

Thanks Rodney.

 

You know I sincerely love it when you post.

 

It's nice to be loved.

 

Ok so “emptiness”. Sorry it took so long. Hopefully it whets your appetite.

 

Emptiness developed from the idea of no-self (anatman). The idea is that no matter how hard you search, however you dissect your mind or body, there is no thing you can point to as an independent or intrinsic self. That which we think of as “I” is interdependent and interpenetrated with our genetics, our society, our relationships, our habits...the list goes on and on. Emptiness just takes that line of thinking and applies it to all phenomena. At it's heart, the teaching of emptiness is not the teaching of non-existence, but rather the teaching that we are all connected in a complex web of interrelationships and interactions.

 

I suppose you could say that sunyata is a “ground of being” in a sense, but it is definitely not an end or a thing in itself. It's skillful means, an idea to hone our focus. If considering emptiness in terms of the quantum field helps one wrap their mind around it, that is all fine and good. However, I don't think equating the two ideas is very helpful in the long run.

 

The focus of Buddhist practice is not the insight into emptiness or non-self or impermanence, it is learning to apply this insight in our dealings with each other. As I said in that quote, it's about moving through the world more than it's about how the world is.

 

Whether or not we go for the so-called “woo” or keep a hard rational materialist stance (though the Way is found in neither), it still comes down to chopping wood and carrying water.

Thank you Rodney. I guess my curious nature leads me away from the world into what might this emptiness mean. You know what? That leaves me carrying out my daily life no different than before. I'm always in a pondering mode and reality goes by the wayside. I'm aware of this, yet can't help it.

 

Thanks again.

[florduh]

it still comes down to chopping wood and carrying water.

That's really all that needs to be said.

[Rev R]

That's really all that needs to be said.

 

Indeed. But without the preface it runs the risk of inviting criticism as a Zen "woo" riddle.

[florduh]

a Zen "woo" riddle.

There is a lot of Zen woo. I guess it's fun sometimes to think and talk about, but to me it's distraction from the truth of the simple statement you posted. But then, I'm not a woo kind of guy!

[Rev R]

it's distraction

 

I hope someone is taking notes C, I think we are on a roll today.

[ElrondHubbard]

[quote name=Major Tom' date='07 May 2010 - 02:54 AM' timestamp='1273218870' post='559532'

 

Kindly note the following definitions from The American Heritage® Dictionary, Fourth Edition

 

quantum physics - The branch of physics that uses quantum theory to describe and predict the properties of a physical system.

 

metaphysics - The branch of philosophy that examines the nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attribute, fact and value.

 

As we can see from the above, Quantum physics "describes and predicts" while "Metaphysics "examines the nature of" reality. One need no longer be afraid of Quantum Weirdness, also known as Mysticism, since Quantum Science now can explain it.

 

 

10:05

The Quantum Apocalypse of The Holographic Universe

 

Right. I know the dictionary definitions. But I'm still trying to understand why you think the universe is "holographic" and how subatomic particles are essentially thoughts. I mean, in your own words - how, exactly, does that work?

 

I apologize for referring to your post as "ignorant bullshit." That is hyperbole, and unkind, besides. I don't think you are unintelligent, I just see quantum mysticism (and I'm not opposed to mysticism, necessarily) as a sad attempt at using science to justify spirituality. The vast majority of professional scientists do not believe in this stuff, and most of the people promoting it seem to completely lack a high-school level understanding of basic chemistry, so I'm inclined to agree with the professionals.

 

But aside from what you or I believe about the universe, I have other ethical dilemmas with the whole "quantum mysticism" thing. Most of the references these kinds of videos make to "eastern" thought and religion are sweeping generalizations applied selectively to re-enforce the presenter's own beliefs. It's entertainment culled from ignorant commodification of billions of people's thoughts, beliefs, and ways of life. And for what? An interesting Youtube video? A book deal? I think it's disrespectful to approach another culture without respecting your status as an outsider. Learn, read, ask questions, and by all means experience, but know that their history, faith, and culture do not exist to justify yours.

[Kurari]

Life is a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.

That's a pretty wild assertion. Is that revealed wisdom, scientific fact, or the tagline for a self help book?

 

 

It basically means that life keeps changing constantly, and we create the lives we live in. When we are asleep and dreaming, our dreams seem very real and like a big deal. Until we wake up and realize they really weren't that important.

 

If you step back and really pay attention to how real life works, it can feel a lot like waking up out of a dream. Suddenly, a lot of things you thought were just so important don't matter. Then you start to feel a lot less stressed, and start feeling more natural joy, peace, and fulfillment in your life.

 

Mysticism is often a tool to get people to stop living in the worlds their imaginations create and start living their actual lives.

[lunaticheathen]

Mysticism is often a tool to get people to stop living in the worlds their imaginations create and start living their actual lives.

 

I'm going to have to remember this. That is so true, and so what I needed to hear.

 

EDIT: And it reminded me of this.

Shamanic Cheerleaders

[Shyone]

Mysticism is often a tool to get people to stop living in the worlds their imaginations create and start living their actual lives.

 

I'm going to have to remember this. That is so true, and so what I needed to hear.

 

EDIT: And it reminded me of this. [Picture]

 

Your picture reminds me of Sham Wow.

 

ETA: I mean the advertisement guy that pushes the cleaning cloth called Sham Wow.

[lunaticheathen]

Mysticism is often a tool to get people to stop living in the worlds their imaginations create and start living their actual lives.

 

I'm going to have to remember this. That is so true, and so what I needed to hear.

 

EDIT: And it reminded me of this. [Picture]

 

Your picture reminds me of Sham Wow.

 

ETA: I mean the advertisement guy that pushes the cleaning cloth called Sham Wow.

 

Ok, they may be a bit goofy, but the Shamanic Cheerleaders do not promote the sham wow. Or are they much like that douche bag. :-P

[Shyone]

 

Ok, they may be a bit goofy, but the Shamanic Cheerleaders do not promote the sham wow. Or are they much like that douche bag. :-P

It was more that "Om Wow" sounds like "Sham Wow" when I sound it out.