Paganism Attracts Me

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

If there is an ancient recorded civilization, there's a Pagan system too, most likely. It's definitely not all Wicca - and yes, people will assume you're wiccan. Or if you wear a pentagram, sometimes a jew (apparently, counting is difficult for some).

People thought I was jewish when I told my employer i couldn't work on a saturday. the reason is that every 7 days is a sabbat, or the babylonian meaning the same thing as the jewish sabbath, almost completely the same. Except it has to do with the creation of makind and not a 7 day creation of the world. And though it occurs every seven days, the way its worded isn't exactly the same.

 

Though I was a babylonian pagan, and at the time a theist, so I made sure I took the day off and said I couldn't work for religious reasons.

 

I'm a theistic Pagan myself. I have my reasons for believing, all highly personal and unprovable. I get shit for this. For some reason, being an atheistic pagan is better than a theistic one. Theists are all stupid, don't ya know?

Don't be so down on yourself, you are well liked. At least by me and others who already said they liked you. Not all theists are stupid. Sometimes we can pick on theists a little, I apologise, when I do, I mean it in humor and not harm. Though I'll keep this in mind and be easier, as I don't mean it to be mean.

 

Actually, I understand you 100%. I was where you were before.

 

I suppose it makes sense that a pagan who believes in the gods/goddesses might dislike me for not believing, but pagans also seem more accepting. It's just very difficult for me to believe in them when I can't even believe in the Christian god and there's TONS of literature on him. As Babylonian Dream said, "its the art, the symbolism, the ritual, the festivity, the idea of gods (not so much believing, as thats not an option for me), the philosophy stuff and so on"....I TOTALLY agree. I tend to view religion more from an intellectual standpoint. However, I don't look down on pagans for believing in gods. I mean, I've always wondered if there are energies and such floating around, even if they aren't gods, and it's sort of like they're acknowledging that... I don't know, I'm gonna buy some literature on it and check it out.

That made it all the harder to unbecome pagan.

 

Depends on what you mean by "believe."

I think rituals are just a way to push the mind into a liminal state, a way to let it see another way of thinking/being. Literal truth means nothing in a ritual/mystical state. So there doesn't have to be a literal "being" that embodies these qualities, it's enough that the qualities exist at all.

 

Also, I like attempting to describe what/who I am and what I believe, even if it takes a dozen words. At the end of the day, yes, I'm my own person, and I don't belong to any one faith, but we're symbolic creatures, we like words/symbols to tell who and what we are. I'm nothing but what I am.

I like your brand of paganism, sounds interesting, and similar to my brand of pantheism I'm looking into.

[Guest ephymeris]

I find paganism fascinating and though I can't believe in a personified deity I find it more plausible to believe in energies or something of the like (forgive my poor ability to express what I mean by "energies"). I was drawn to paganism briefly during my deconversion but without a community or direction, it was hard to find momentum. Where is a good place to start as far as book recommendations? I'm not looking to convert but already my husband and I mark the rhythm of the seasons in our own ways and I like the traditions and rituals of paganism because it celebrates the world right in front of me to some degree.

[J.W.]

Just so we are on the same page, when you say Paganism-- I am thinking of stuff like this

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUdxy836WY4

[lunaticheathen]

JW, don't forget Haitian Vodou. They shake dead chickens.

Are you done?

 

Ephymeris, a classic of the modern pagan world is The Spiral Dance by Starhawk. If you want just the basics on Wicca and magick practice, I recommend anything by Scott Cunningham. He's accessible, and nowhere near dogmatic.

If you just like observing the seasons, a fun book for activities and assorted trivia is Ancient Ways: Reclaiming Pagan Traditions by Pauline Campanelli. You might find that a bit more useful, since it mostly covers the activities and history.

[Shyone]

JW, don't forget Haitian Vodou. They shake dead chickens.

Are you done?

 

Ephymeris, a classic of the modern pagan world is The Spiral Dance by Starhawk. If you want just the basics on Wicca and magick practice, I recommend anything by Scott Cunningham. He's accessible, and nowhere near dogmatic.

If you just like observing the seasons, a fun book for activities and assorted trivia is Ancient Ways: Reclaiming Pagan Traditions by Pauline Campanelli. You might find that a bit more useful, since it mostly covers the activities and history.

Observing the seasons sounds beautiful. I was raised in South Texas and there was really only one season: Hot. I'm living in Missouri now, so the seasons are much more personal. Maybe even a bit scary (to me). Before, I'd worry about Hurricanes a bit, but now I have to worry about ice and snow and floods and giant tornadoes - and that scares the shit out of me.

[J.W.]

JW, don't forget Haitian Vodou. They shake dead chickens.

Are you done?

 

 

Yeah, I actually wasn't poking fun on that one. That's my view of the classic Pagan. Very similar to the OT Jewish sacrifices-- I could be wrong but Im pretty sure Im not the only one. I am new to the forums so I probably have missed a prior post more in depth on Pagan beliefs. Some of the Paganism some people express seems more kin to New Age than Pagan. I very well could be in the wrong here. I never studied Pagan beliefs much because I was under the assumption that the Roman Catholic Church probably did a good job of burning all of the real authentic doctrine. That very well could be an irrational belief of mine. So forgive me- I meant no insult- I was only pointing out that when someone says "Pagan" without an indepth description that the above is the first thing that comes to my mind [probably a lot of other fundies too]. It's a mater of perception-- not judgement

[lunaticheathen]

Well, just like ancient christianity differs from what is practiced today in mega-churches, so do modern interpretations of pagan beliefs differ from what was practiced by the ancient followers of the old gods. I've never bathed in the blood of a bull, but I honor Diana as the goddess of the Moon and protector of animals. I have offered a few drops of my own blood though, in a few rites (that really freaks out the fundies).

There is a Vodou priestess here in New Orleans that studied in Haiti, yet she is vegan, and does not practice live blood sacrifice of any animals. She concentrates on other offerings, including raising energy (with dance, drumming, etc.). Some other Vodou practitioners have shunned her, even threatened her, for rejecting blood sacrifices in her rites. I find that dogmatic attitude unhelpful, and I do not doubt Manbo Glassman's sincerity of belief and practice. I'm rather looking forward to attending her St John's Eve rite.

Practices, traditions, and beliefs all morph and change with different times and places. Some will hold on to some old beliefs (I have many) while discarding others that are useless, inconvenient, and/or harmful.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Yeah, the sacrificing animals parts of the older pagan paths just isn't for me lol.

 

The reason is that I get squeemish around dead things. I don't like it.

[Guest ephymeris]

Ephymeris, a classic of the modern pagan world is The Spiral Dance by Starhawk. If you want just the basics on Wicca and magick practice, I recommend anything by Scott Cunningham. He's accessible, and nowhere near dogmatic.

If you just like observing the seasons, a fun book for activities and assorted trivia is Ancient Ways: Reclaiming Pagan Traditions by Pauline Campanelli. You might find that a bit more useful, since it mostly covers the activities and history.

 

Thanks for the references Luna, I especially thing the Ancient Ways book will be up my alley. Amazon.com here I come

[sangheili_asylum]

I'm thinking maybe pantheism is up my alley? Although doing rituals to celebrate the seasons seems nice to me. I just don't believe in a god or goddess...but I think life, animals, plants, the planets, the universe, people, etc are sacred...

[orlando]

Yeah, the sacrificing animals parts of the older pagan paths just isn't for me lol.

 

The reason is that I get squeemish around dead things. I don't like it.

 

Well the Old Testament god just loved having animals sacrificed to him - it was not an exclusively "Pagan" thing. And bathing in a bull's blood was only done in the initiation into the Mithraic Mysteries, as far as I know. It is a bit hard to generalise about what Pagans believed, since in a broad sense pretty much any religion that is not one of the Abrahamic ones was considered "Pagan." But in the modern neo-Pagan sense it generally involves rituals to mark the seasons, venerating two or more gods (who might be seen as literal beings or personifications or aspects of one overall pantheistic type of God), tolerant laid back ethics, a fairly loose inspiration from ancestral practices and beliefs etc.

 

Hinduism is a good example of a Pagan religion that has come down to us from ancient times without a break (and they rarely bathe in bull's blood, as far as I know..).

[lunaticheathen]

Hinduism is a good example of a Pagan religion that has come down to us from ancient times without a break (and they rarely bathe in bull's blood, as far as I know..).

 

Nah, but one major sect of Shiva worship bathes a giant stone penis in milk and decorates it with garlands of flowers.

 

A smaller, less-accepted one of tantra is said to have cannibalistic rites on cremation grounds. It's bad enough that they live on "unclean earth", drinking alcohol out of skulls and smoking marijuana. The only reports of cannibalism to be close to believed, however, involved already-dead corpses from the Ganges. They are creepy, but non-violent.

[Shyone]

Hinduism is a good example of a Pagan religion that has come down to us from ancient times without a break (and they rarely bathe in bull's blood, as far as I know..).

 

Nah, but one major sect of Shiva worship bathes a giant stone penis in milk and decorates it with garlands of flowers.

 

A smaller, less-accepted one of tantra is said to have cannibalistic rites on cremation grounds. It's bad enough that they live on "unclean earth", drinking alcohol out of skulls and smoking marijuana. The only reports of cannibalism to be close to believed, however, involved already-dead corpses from the Ganges. They are creepy, but non-violent.

I've been studying the Hindu people and religion a lot lately, and I might add that they could possibly have also been hungry.

 

The poverty of the untouchables is apalling.

 

ETA: The above is pure speculation on my part.

Except the part about the poverty of the untouchables.

[lunaticheathen]

I've been studying the Hindu people and religion a lot lately, and I might add that they could possibly have also been hungry.

 

The poverty of the untouchables is apalling.

 

ETA: The above is pure speculation on my part.

Except the part about the poverty of the untouchables.

 

The sect I read about is a form of tantra (the exact school is escaping me right now) which takes the whole dissolving of opposites very seriously - they choose to have rites on cremation grounds, bringing the "holy" to the "unholy", breaking strict taboos on purpose, in order to make everything One, by destroying any concept of "other" at all.

The priests of this sect also marry "untouchable" women, some of the few that will.

Most hindus fear and hate this sect of tantra though, finding it "evil." I find it fascinating.

[Shyone]

I've been studying the Hindu people and religion a lot lately, and I might add that they could possibly have also been hungry.

 

The poverty of the untouchables is apalling.

 

ETA: The above is pure speculation on my part.

Except the part about the poverty of the untouchables.

 

The sect I read about is a form of tantra (the exact school is escaping me right now) which takes the whole dissolving of opposites very seriously - they choose to have rites on cremation grounds, bringing the "holy" to the "unholy", breaking strict taboos on purpose, in order to make everything One, by destroying any concept of "other" at all.

The priests of this sect also marry "untouchable" women, some of the few that will.

Most hindus fear and hate this sect of tantra though, finding it "evil." I find it fascinating.

Kuru is a fascinating disease related to a specific religious ritual. It was was transmitted among members of the Fore tribe of Papua New Guinea via cannibalism. I wonder if the members of this sect you describe have any similar maladies. [Kuru is a degenerative brain disease that kind of resembles mad cow disease.]

[lunaticheathen]

I've been studying the Hindu people and religion a lot lately, and I might add that they could possibly have also been hungry.

 

The poverty of the untouchables is apalling.

 

ETA: The above is pure speculation on my part.

Except the part about the poverty of the untouchables.

 

The sect I read about is a form of tantra (the exact school is escaping me right now) which takes the whole dissolving of opposites very seriously - they choose to have rites on cremation grounds, bringing the "holy" to the "unholy", breaking strict taboos on purpose, in order to make everything One, by destroying any concept of "other" at all.

The priests of this sect also marry "untouchable" women, some of the few that will.

Most hindus fear and hate this sect of tantra though, finding it "evil." I find it fascinating.

Kuru is a fascinating disease related to a specific religious ritual. It was was transmitted among members of the Fore tribe of Papua New Guinea via cannibalism. I wonder if the members of this sect you describe have any similar maladies. [Kuru is a degenerative brain disease that kind of resembles mad cow disease.]

 

I'd be interested in knowing too. I don't know how often cannibalism is done by an individual has an effect, or what. But it would clear up how strong the rumors are about this sect. In a documentary I saw, outsiders said they killed people for their human meals, some said they just fished bodies out of the river. No one seems to know for sure.

[Shyone]

I'd be interested in knowing too. I don't know how often cannibalism is done by an individual has an effect, or what. But it would clear up how strong the rumors are about this sect. In a documentary I saw, outsiders said they killed people for their human meals, some said they just fished bodies out of the river. No one seems to know for sure.

That's gross. Either way.

[Phanta]

I abandoned Wicca and just went with regular earth-worshipping paganism, which I find is much less of a hassle, doesn't require tools, or even a belief in any Goddess or menstrual blood powers.

 

I hear plants like it. The menstrual blood.

 

Fun fact. Great to share at parties if you want to get rid of someone.

 

Phanta

[lunaticheathen]

I abandoned Wicca and just went with regular earth-worshipping paganism, which I find is much less of a hassle, doesn't require tools, or even a belief in any Goddess or menstrual blood powers.

 

I hear plants like it. The menstrual blood.

 

Fun fact. Great to share at parties if you want to get rid of someone.

 

Phanta

 

 

I just thought of an awesome girl rock band name..."tossin' tampons."

[Phanta]

*Laugh* Too funny.