Pertinent Questions for Christians

[Ouroboros]

See? It's a quote to show him what the Scripture has recorded. Perhaps, in the end, it does not matter, we'll all be sex-less in Heaven (guessing...). 

Can't be sex-less in Heaven, God created us to his image, with dicks and nipples and all.

[All Gods Fail]

"Chosen."  Chosen where?  Because Adam the whiny bitch was created first out of worm shit?    If you know of Jewish apocrypha, Lilith, Adam's first wife, was as strong as he was.  He tried to force her to submit, and she refused, knowing they were equals.

HERE:

 

1 Corinthians 11:3

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

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So the chain of command goes: god/Father/holy spirit>Jesus>saved Jewish male>saved gentile male>saved Jewish female>saved gentile female>heretic/pagan male>heretic/pagan female>animals>homosexuals>inanimate objects?

 

Just wanted to get that straight. Wait, what about non-saved Jews? They're god's chosen people, but they rejected Jesus, so are they above or below the heretics/pagans? Can they at least still boss around their women, animals, gays? Do we heretic males get to boss around our womenfolk (wishful thinking, I know)?

 

What if a pagan women is saved - does she rise in rank over her pagan male? Or if a Jewish male marries a female who later accepts jesus - who's the boss there?

 

Main, obedience is complicated.

[Amethyst]

Umm... i do not follow or believe the quran or never-ending story because my God told me not to.

 

How do you know the Muslims don't follow Christianity because their god told them not to? Or the Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans...the list goes on and on. How do you know it's god and not the Invisible Pink Unicorn? Or that you're not insane?

[Checkmate]

Sokudo Ningyou, if you're talking about Romans 1 popularly used in this regards, I don't think that Paul was speaking about homosexuality. It seems to me he was speaking of the 'judgemental condemning religous right'. That's why the very first verse in chapter 2 says if we judge them, then we're no better than they are. How could that possibly make sense in reference to homosexuality?

Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

 

 

Amanda, explain to me HOW you don't see this as a condemnation against homosexuality? Surely you don't view this as an endorsement of homosexuality?

 

Paul is CLEARLY saying homosexuality and lesbianism is WRONG, and those who practice such receive their DUE PENALTY. As I am SURE your fellow "Christians" on this forum would agree with me.

[Checkmate]

Mary is JC's human mother on earth. My answer refers to JC's Heavenly mother. No, He does not have one in Heaven.

"JC"? Hmmm. I don't know about anyone else, but this "JC" terminology smacks of "blasphemy." A tad bit on the irreverent side, wouldn't you think? For an alleged "Christian", that is. Pug, your casual usage of your LORD and Savior's name as "JC", is tantamount to my referring to him as "Jeebus". This IS the Name that is above any other name, is it not? How do you get off addressing the LORD JESUS CHRIST as if he were your homeboy? And if you say it's "no big deal", then what's to stop US from trivializing His Holy Name?

 

I think YOU need to repent. You're teaching US how to blaspheme.

[Checkmate]

Yes, it's just a book. I am one of those Christians who think that the Bible is just my holy guide.

 

Umm... i do not follow or believe the quran or never-ending story because my God told me not to.

And precisely WHEN and HOW did "God" tell you this? Did he whisper this in your ear? Or did you get this instruction from the very book you denigrate as merely a "guide"?

 

If from the latter, then your instruction from "God" carries no more weight than the Neverending Story or the Qur'an.

 

Pug, you're arguing yourself into a silly pit from which you won't be able to extricate yourself. Without the BIBLE as the RULE of faith, then you have NO authority with which to act or believe. To dismiss it as a mere "giude" undercuts your foundation for belief.

[Ouroboros]

"JC"?  Hmmm.  I don't know about anyone else, but this "JC" terminology smacks of "blasphemy."  A tad bit on the irreverent side, wouldn't you think?  For an alleged "Christian", that is.  Pug, your casual usage of your LORD and Savior's name as "JC", is tantamount to my referring to him as "Jeebus".  This IS the Name that is above any other name, is it not?  How do you get off addressing the LORD JESUS CHRIST as if he were your homeboy?  And if you say it's "no big deal", then what's to stop US from trivializing His Holy Name?

 

I think YOU need to repent.  You're teaching US how to blaspheme. 

A couple of months ago we had this visitor that went on a rant about us using expressions like X-ian, Jebus, Glob etc.

But it seems it's okay for the dawgs in the hood to do it.

[Ouroboros]

Grinch and Han...Leave poor ole' pug alone, you know that it is only blasphemy if one does it with his hebrew name "Y'shua".  Now YHWH,dammit and Y'shua Messiah, quit leading this child astray.  Shame on you both!

Uuuuh. But I like leading sheep astray... muahahahaha!!! I'm the Evil Wolf and I'm hungry!

 

...of course you know I'm kidding with both of you infidels, but not kidding about the hebrew name stuff.

Oh. You were? Of course I knew that... all along... I think...

[Checkmate]

Grinch and Han...Leave poor ole' pug alone, you know that it is only blasphemy if one does it with his hebrew name "Y'shua".  Now YHWH,dammit and Y'shua Messiah, quit leading this child astray.  Shame on you both!

 

...of course you know I'm kidding with both of you infidels, but not kidding about the hebrew name stuff.

You so crazy!

[Amanda]

Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Amanda, explain to me HOW you don't see this as a condemnation against homosexuality?  Surely you don't view this as an endorsement of homosexuality? 

 

Paul is CLEARLY saying homosexuality and lesbianism is WRONG, and those who practice such receive their DUE PENALTY.  As I am SURE your fellow "Christians" on this forum would agree with me.

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Hello Mr. Grinch, let's read the preamble to your verses posted.

 

Romans 1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

MR GRINCH, PLEASE EXAMINE EACH SPECIFIC VERSE, IN YOUR OPINION, DO THESE VERSES RING ANY TRUTH IN IT REFERRING TO THE 'CONDEMNING' RELIGOUS RIGHT (CRR), OR GAYS?

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

AND WHO STRIVES MORE FOR THEIR PECKING ORDER, CRR OR GAYS?

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

WHICH ONE HAS LUSTS FOR THEIR OWN DESIRES, AND DISHONOR THE MYSTICAL SOCIETIES (BODIES OF PEOPLE) THEY BELONG?

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

THEY HAVE CHANGED THE TRUTH TO A LIE, AND WORSHIPPED THE CREATED (BIBLE) MORE THAN THE CREATOR. CRR OR GAYS?

 

NOW YOUR SECTION POSTED OF THESE VERSES...

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

THE WORD WOMAN EVOLVED FROM A LACTATING WOMAN, A NURTURING NATURE. SEE DEFINITION HERE: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/...337&version=kjv

THE CRR WOMEN GAVE UP THEIR NURTURING SIDE OF THEMSELVES, TO THAT WHICH IS AGAINST THEIR NATURE.

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another *; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

CRR MEN, LEAVING THEIR NURTURING SIDE OF THEMSELVES, JUST LOVE EACH OTHER... DOING THAT ARROGANT CONDEMNING/JUDGING WHICH IS SHAMEFUL AND GIVING THEMSELVES A REWARD FOR THEIR ERROR THAT THEY THINK THEY DESERVE! NOW DOES THIS SEEM LIKE ANY OF YOUR GAY FRIENDS? OR LIKE THE CRR YOU KNOW?

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

WHO DOES THINGS NOT BECOMING OF THEM, CRR OR GAYS?

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

DO OUR GAY FRIENDS DO THIS? DO THE CRR DO THIS?

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

CONDEMNATION BRINGS SPIRITUAL DEATH, YET THE CRR HAS PLEASURE IN DOING IT!

BUT MR. GRINCH, WE CAN'T JUDGE THE RELIGOUS RIGHT FOR THESE ERRORS THAT THEY MAKE IN CONDEMNING/JUDGING EVERYONE.. YOU KNOW WHY?...THE VERY NEXT VERSE TELL US WHY...

Romans 2

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

SO, IF WE JUDGE AND CONDEMN THE CRR, THEN WE ARE NO BETTER THAN THEY, BECAUSE WE DO THE SAME THING!

[Checkmate]

Hello, Amanda.

 

Yes, Romans 1 is a general critique and condemnation of ALL unrighteousness. Yet vv 26-28 are SPECIFICALLY AIMED at the homosexual community. I hope you don't seriously expect me to believe that Paul was addressing the Christian Religious Right when he wrote these words?

 

If it is YOUR contention that these specific verses can be INTERPRETED to be against the CRR (male and female), then more power to you. Such a generous interpretation would probably play well in a church sermon aimed at critiquing the CRR, but THAT is not the original intent of these words.

 

It seems to me that you are going out of your way in seeking to defend and deflect a horribly damning passage of scripture.

 

The NEW TESTAMENT does condemn homosexuality. If you don't like that, (as I don't) then reject the bible like the rest of us. But don't expect me to put on religious blinders like you and pretend that the words aren't clear. The words say exactly what they say. No more, no less.

[Amanda]

The NEW TESTAMENT does condemn homosexuality.  If you don't like that, (as I don't) then reject the bible like the rest of us.  But don't expect me to put on religious blinders like you and pretend that the words aren't clear.  The words say exactly what they say.  No more, no less.

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Mr Grinch, of course I don't agree with the condemnation of homosexuality! That has nothing to do with my interpretation of Romans 1:26-32!

 

The whole chapter is about these sins of unrighteousness, which the most unrighteous aspect of all is condemnation... something on which the religous right of the time thrived. There's at least one other whole chapter in the Bible devoted to this aspect! So what better way to end this chapter than to ultimately chastise condemnation/judging? Because now you would have to look at the very next verse, Romans 2:1... which says if we judge/condemn those that judge/condemn, then we are no better than they are.

 

So, Mr. Grinch, how could this be in regards to Gays? It's simple... it's NOT.

 

BTW Mr. Grinch, considering this forum site... even though I stand behind my post 100%, I know I'm in a no-win situation... yet I just couldn't help myself.

[Checkmate]

Mr Grinch, of course I don't agree with the condemnation of homosexuality! That has nothing to do with my interpretation of Romans 1:26-32!

 

The whole chapter is about these sins of unrighteousness, which the most unrighteous aspect of all is condemnation... something on which the religous right of the time thrived. There's at least one other whole chapter in the Bible devoted to this aspect! So what better way to end this chapter than to ultimately chastise condemnation/judging? Because now you would have to look at the very next verse, Romans 2:1... which says if we judge/condemn those that judge/condemn, then we are no better than they are.

 

So, Mr. Grinch, how could this be in regards to Gays? It's simple... it's NOT.

 

BTW Mr. Grinch, considering this forum site... even though I stand behind my post 100%, I know I'm in a no-win situation... yet I just couldn't help myself. 

But Amanda, don't you see? Just because Paul says that Christians are NOT to judge "homosexuality", because they are just as guilty, that does NOT take away from the fact that he LISTS homosexuality as a sin.

 

Paul lists many sins, just as Jesus says that even THINKING about stuff is a sin, so that he may cut off those who THINK they are innocent of any wrong doing.

 

"For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

 

Paul DOES condemn homosexuality. And he does so JUST to make sure NO ONE thinks they are exempt from any guilt. There's no getting around it.

 

But does it REALLY matter? According to YOUR bible, God is pissed at ALL of us. Homos and heteros alike.

[SkepticOfBible]

2 Timothy 1:9

 

who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

 

2 Timothy 1:8-10 (in Context) 2 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)

Romans 11:6

 

And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:5-7 (in Context) Romans 11

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So says Paul. There is nothing in the OT which talks about Salvation by grace or by believing in blood sacrifice.

 

And as Madame M says

 

But you do have to do a "work". You have to believe, you have to accept Jesus as savior, you have to maintain your faith by reading the bible and praying. (those are just the bare basic requirements).

[SkepticOfBible]

"Chosen."  Chosen where?  Because Adam the whiny bitch was created first out of worm shit?    If you know of Jewish apocrypha, Lilith, Adam's first wife, was as strong as he was.  He tried to force her to submit, and she refused, knowing they were equals.

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Where exactly in the Bible can I find this story?

[Sokudo Ningyou]

The Jewish apocrypha is not part of the Bible.  Why are you interpreting extra-biblical material.  That makes you a heretic.

 

 

Why thank you.

 

 

And pritishd, there's a reason I said Jewish Apocrypha. If I can find a clear reference though, I'll tell you; I've simply heard of it.

 

 

edit: Ok, read a bit of this: http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlilith.html

[pug]

So says Paul. There is nothing in the OT which talks about Salvation by grace or by believing in blood sacrifice.

 

 

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There is nothing in OT about salvation by grace or blood cleansing because Jesus only came in NT.

 

Madame M,

 

Reading the Bible and praying is not works. Sheeesh. By praying I'm just building my relationship with God. By reading I'm fortifying my understanding of God's Word as recorded by his servants.