Guest freeatlast Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 For a brief overview: I was born and raised in a Christian family and considered myself a Christian until very recently (maybe a month ago). The reason for my deconversion was that I finally started to do research and think for myself without having any blind faith (oh NO). If you want to know the actual reason I finally didn't believe, it is simply "the fall of man". Christianity is entirely based around this story, which I finally figured out wasn't factual, therefore disproving the religion. The problem: I currently attend a pentecostal christian university and will be here for at least 3 more years. There is basically required chapel everyday. Even though I finally feel free, doubt constantly creeps in because I am bombarded with lies and half-truths every single day. I occasionally feel a pull back towards Christianity (mainly due to that indoctrinated fear of eternal damnation). And naturally, most of my peers here are "devout" Christians. No one here knows that I'm not a Christian yet, and it's probably better to stay that way, because that would just increase the pressure immensely. My question: How would you advise dealing with this daily "pressure" or "pull" towards Christianity? I know I'll be here for 3 more years, and it's going to be very difficult if I don't develop some methods. There's no way I'll ever actually go back to Christianity, but I just want to feel *completely* free, if you know what I mean. Is this possible to achieve under my present circumstances? Any advice would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 freeatlast- Congrats for having the gumption to do your own thinking! You're definitely on the right track. My advice in your situation: Can you transfer to a normal, secular university? That would be my first thought. If it would be a problem among your family, simply do a little research and find a school with a good (or even better) program in your major. It might help the family to accept it. Or just drop out! Say you want to take a little time off to think about what you want to do with the rest of your life. Start up a year later at a different school. If for some reason you can't, I would at least start to develop friends outside of the university (maybe get involved in some outside clubs or groups - art/literature, hobbies, outdoor activities, etc) or try to find others like you at the university who don't buy into the party line. I guarantee there's probably more than you think. Don't know if you're in a good-sized area or not, but see if there's some free local rags detailing the area music/art scene. That might be good for a start. Hang in there, and keep thinking for yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest freeatlast Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Can you transfer to a normal, secular university? That would be my first thought. If it would be a problem among your family, simply do a little research and find a school with a good (or even better) program in your major. It might help the family to accept it. Or just drop out! Say you want to take a little time off to think about what you want to do with the rest of your life. Start up a year later at a different school. i've thought about these myself...unfortunately, none are options for me. i just transferred here, and i don't want to keep wasting my parents' money by moving around. i should just stick it out and get my degree. though i'll definitely be attending graduate school at a non-religious university or maybe even overseas. If for some reason you can't, I would at least start to develop friends outside of the university (maybe get involved in some outside clubs or groups - art/literature, hobbies, outdoor activities, etc) or try to find others like you at the university who don't buy into the party line. I guarantee there's probably more than you think. Don't know if you're in a good-sized area or not, but see if there's some free local rags detailing the area music/art scene. That might be good for a start. this sounds like good advice. i had already kinda started to do this. i am in a large area (minneapolis, mn), and there is a very large state university a few miles away (about 40,000 students), so I do have some options there. Finding others similar to me here will be a lot more difficult, it will take some time. Thanks for your advice though. Any suggestions for what to do while sitting in chapel? should i just try to critique the speaker? that might get boring after awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The new Game Boy Micro? They're so tiny no one would see you playing it. Or just don't go - any way to skip it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Man, Freeatlast, you're in a conundrum! If you have to stay, I guess you have to read and study like it was a form of philosophy instead. I don't know. Seems pretty tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles1:2 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I studied at London Bible College for three years. Even then, when I would've called myself an evangelical christian, there were many students with whom I couldn't agree or who held loony extremist views. You just have to step back from it, and try to view it all objectively. I guess lots of people have to go through a school experience they don't really buy into. But I totally agree with what's been said here; if you can find even one other there who doesn't swallow it, you will feel a hundred times better. In fact, it might even be fun! But in the meantime, please feel free to come in here and bitch, or dump, or just chill out. We're rooting for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 i've thought about these myself...unfortunately, none are options for me. i just transferred here, and i don't want to keep wasting my parents' money by moving around. i should just stick it out and get my degree. though i'll definitely be attending graduate school at a non-religious university or maybe even overseas. From my experience private christian universities are much more expensive than secular state universities - dramatically so. Why would you be wasting your parent's money if you transfered to a university that saved them likely significant cash? Just a thought. I don't know all the facts. What is your tuition now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Also, just a mention. A degree from a secular school may help you secure better work in the long run. It depends on your field of study of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest freeatlast Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The new Game Boy Micro? They're so tiny no one would see you playing it. Or just don't go - any way to skip it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the game boy sounds like an awesome idea. i get a certain number of skips each semester, depending on how many credits i have. right now i get 15, but when i'm a senior, i'll have 45. in the meantime, i'm definitely getting a gameboy. to everyone who suggest transferring: like i said, i wish i could. but understand: i'm going against christianity only. not my parents. i have friends who are being forced into certain fields of study. at least i'll be able to study whatever i want. and tuition here is not expensive at all, so it'll be fine. plus, i've learned that where you get your graduate degree tends to matter a lot more in the marketplace. i'm not so much worried about having to stay here, as much as what to do while i'm here. finding other friends and getting a gamebody are great suggestions though. what about in the (extremely biased) theology classes that i'm required to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 what about in the (extremely biased) theology classes that i'm required to take? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Think of it as taking Greek mythology classes. The theology is just as made up. And I can't believe any legitimate graduate school would care how well you did in theology class, anyway. It may actually be good, in the long run - chances are you'll just discover tons of new ammo to use in future arguments. And keep coming back here! We won't let you 'backslide'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest freeatlast Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Think of it as taking Greek mythology classes. The theology is just as made up. And I can't believe any legitimate graduate school would care how well you did in theology class, anyway. It may actually be good, in the long run - chances are you'll just discover tons of new ammo to use in future arguments. And keep coming back here! We won't let you 'backslide'. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thanks. i'll definitely keep coming here. i don't want to slip back into the vice of christian thinking ever again. that's mainly why i'm here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 My first choice of course would be to change schools, but... If you MUST STAY, AND if you must take church-related courses, then load up on language courses (Greek first, then Latin), and courses about history and early Christian writings. Knowing how things originated and being able to read text in its original language should be a great help. In order to keep your mind free from the fear, read up on the hell doctrine (and why it is false) and universalism (-everyone is saved no matter what they do or think). Once you understand them, the fear should be gone and you should be free to study with a more open mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caretaker Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Good Ammo.... http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ Oh, and what happens if your school finds out you have left Christianity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 . . .what about in the (extremely biased) theology classes that i'm required to take? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just keep in mind they have been indocrinated and are trying to do the same to you. Try to see the errors, contradictions, and absurdities that they choose to ignore. Then you can laugh at them internally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest freeatlast Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Oh, and what happens if your school finds out you have left Christianity? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> good question...well, i had to profess to be a christian to get in the school, but i don't know what happens if you lose your faith while here. wouldn't that kind of seem like it was the school's fault? i have a feeling i would have a lot of people praying for me and trying to win me back to christ before any other action was taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I'd keep mum about it till you get a good feel for how things work in that place. You don't have to go running around spitting on bibles or harassing believers. Get the lay of the land first, then make your plans, Unlike believers, we aren't forced to pester others with our beliefs. Keeping a low profile for now might be your best option till you get a handle on the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Yeah, you don't have to reveal how you feel......think of it as just another study on another subject. You'll get really good at debating them too after you learn it all.....and you'll see all the holes in the theories the longer you are there. Congrats for freethinking.....isn't it great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Can you take classes at non-Christian colleges in the area and transfer the credits? When I went to college, there were two other colleges in the area, and they let you transfer the classes from one school to the next. One was Christian and cost 3 times as much as the others. The other was North Dakota State University. I went to Moorhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I would guess you'll be thrown out in disgrace if you let them know you've changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest freeatlast Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 quick question...one of my professors was talking about how god wakes her up in the middle of the night and speaks to her (not literally). i was obviously a christian before, and i don't remember god ever speaking to me (even in the figurative sense). it always seemed to be whatever i thought i assumed it was god. what do you guys think of this "phenomenon"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 quick question...one of my professors was talking about how god wakes her up in the middle of the night and speaks to her (not literally). i was obviously a christian before, and i don't remember god ever speaking to me (even in the figurative sense). it always seemed to be whatever i thought i assumed it was god. what do you guys think of this "phenomenon"? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. People always "get thoughts" and "have ideas". If you want to believe those are from God, then (by a miracle of faith) you will know they are from God. But they could also be from Satan. Or me. You can tell the difference if it is something already commanded in parts of the NT (not the OT), then it could be from God. If it's setting up your kid as a sacrifice (like Abraham) then it must not be from God. God repeatedly told his kings and prophets to kill people over and over in the OT, but he's different now and has become more civil as society has become more civil. Besides, didn't he command us not to kill?? So it can only be from God if it matches something nice in the NT. Like hating your parents. (Don't bother asking why you would need to be given a revelation from God something that is already written-- that would reveal a bad attitude.) You know, this IS one of the proofs we are in the end times-- people will dream dreams it says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 You know, this IS one of the proofs we are in the end times-- people will dream dreams it says. Hmm. (I'm not attacking you Kryten. Just making a spin.) (religious sarcasm) Which would mean that we've been in the end times for 6000 years... Didn't Ol'Abe in OT dream too? Fabulous. The other signs are: People will eat food. *gasp* (This is a sure sign we're in the end times.) People will talk, think and do things in the end times. This is the ultimate proof. And next thing... I will rain... for sure... I got it in a dream, Globl told me so. And he also told me people will comb their hairs, and some will actually sleep at times too. The rain prophesy takes me everytime. I'm sure we're in the end times. Oh, I just remembered the best one: the sun will go up in the morning. Pretty cool stuff. (end religious sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest freeatlast Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 (Don't bother asking why you would need to be given a revelation from God something that is already written-- that would reveal a bad attitude.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah, it's like what Thomas Paine said about how a revelation is only a revelation if you had no prior knowledge of it. yet christians only consider it a true revelation if it matches the bible (NT, mainly). so it basically means nothing new can be revealed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenleaf Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 good question...well, i had to profess to be a christian to get in the school, but i don't know what happens if you lose your faith while here. Hmm, might want to keep your mouth shut. Responsibilities of Membership... A personal relationship with Christ and active involvement in a local church are required for membership in the **** **** community. ... **** **** reserves the right to dismiss a student who, in its judgment, does not abide by the stated policies governing students. ... Of course, this is assuming I picked the right school. I am pretty (okay, very) sure I did. Note, they are called the Ass of God for a reason (I used to be one of them... I know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 In my thumper days, I said that God spoke to me also. Course, now I just say "a thought occurred to me".. Same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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