Deva Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Is it just me, or is anyone else put off by the sort of industry nowadays around the implements of "spirituality." I mean a whole industry involving the selling of malas, cushions, special clothing, massages, past life regression, so-called therapies, so-called retreats, etc, etc ad nauseum... Yes, I am mainly talking about Buddhism. Maybe its just my mood today (which is none too good) but I find myself getting so annoyed at the notion that spirituality is for sale and making a living at it. It just seems wrong. Christians do it too, of course, with endless versions of the Bible for sale in various leatherbound editions, trinkets, other assorted baloney.. Maybe this should go in the rants section, but I wondered if anyone else exploring an alternate form of religon feels this way. Pagans, witches, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Is it just me, or is anyone else put off by the sort of industry nowadays around the implements of "spirituality." I mean a whole industry involving the selling of malas, cushions, special clothing, massages, past life regression, so-called therapies, so-called retreats, etc, etc ad nauseum... Other than it fits with Right Livelyhood? Kidding If you think that is bad, you should see what some of these folks charge the clergy. I think there is a difference between "practice articles" and "the lifestyle". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 I am just plain disgusted to see many of the students at the dharma center with their own businesses built around the accouterments of the religion. Past life regression, new age crap... Doesn't seem right, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Is it just me, or is anyone else put off by the sort of industry nowadays around the implements of "spirituality." I mean a whole industry involving the selling of malas, cushions, special clothing, massages, past life regression, so-called therapies, so-called retreats, etc, etc ad nauseum... Yes, I am mainly talking about Buddhism. Maybe its just my mood today (which is none too good) but I find myself getting so annoyed at the notion that spirituality is for sale and making a living at it. It just seems wrong. Christians do it too, of course, with endless versions of the Bible for sale in various leatherbound editions, trinkets, other assorted baloney.. Maybe this should go in the rants section, but I wondered if anyone else exploring an alternate form of religon feels this way. Pagans, witches, anyone? Just came back from Barnes and Nobles; I know what you mean. But then, everything is marketed now. Good and bad in there; yes its overdone and silly, but it does give you access to information that in the past would have been hard to get for average shmoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 Just came back from Barnes and Nobles; I know what you mean. But then, everything is marketed now. Good and bad in there; yes its overdone and silly, but it does give you access to information that in the past would have been hard to get for average shmoes. I see the beneficial side of it with books being published that have new or helpful information. I guess I am saying there is a line where it crosses over into bad taste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanta Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Yes. I own some of it... Am now wondering why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I am just plain disgusted to see many of the students at the dharma center with their own businesses built around the accouterments of the religion. Past life regression, new age crap... which makes the social time at the center an opportunity to gather prospective clients. I suppose it depends on where the money goes as to whether I have a problem with it or not. There again, past life regressions and chakra massages might be a better choice of career than selling gas and cigarettes (like a certain Bodhisattva monk we know ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Hate to break it to you, but as soon as spirituality stopped being about keeping the gods from sending down their wrath, its been all about money ever since; with some wrath threats from God(s). Whether your spirituality has a god or gods or not, spirituality is all about selling a product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 Hate to break it to you, but as soon as spirituality stopped being about keeping the gods from sending down their wrath, its been all about money ever since; with some wrath threats from God(s). Whether your spirituality has a god or gods or not, spirituality is all about selling a product. It honestly seems to be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 Yes. I own some of it... Am now wondering why. Me too, and I am wondering why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I am annoyed by the people who think they can obtain true spirituality by simply embracing certain parts of eastern religions. They only display the mere visage of spirituality without really going into what certain practices in those religions mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 BD is partly right. Money has been tied up with religion and spiritual pursuits since forever. Egypt had a booming market in fake cat mummies. Romans sold, well, every damn thing they could. They also freely adopted foreign gods and religions and created markets for the respective baubles. And, yes, it's rampant among the pagans - some kids can't seem to have enough silver pentacles and "Goddess on the loose!" bumper stickers. Of course, I'm guilty of buying some of those "pretties", but sue me, I like pretties. I guess it's whether the focus is on the things, and the idea that "omg, to attain this level of initiation/enlightenment, I MUST have X!", or on actually living the spirituality you have found yourself in. It easy to get turned off by the superficial bullshit other people live in, but you can only tend your own garden. And some bullshit can make good compost later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 I think trinkets and stickers are the least egregious. Its the stuff where people are hoodwinked into buying expensive programs, retreats and technology (Holosync) that is really fucked up. Its easy to say that people shouldn't be such easy marks, but when life is so unsatisfying, or painful, I can't help but to sympathize with one who easily falls for a good sell. I wonder how some people who market the shit can feel okay with themselves knowing they are peddling crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 14, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted August 14, 2010 Methinks you've discovered the real "Secret." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancey Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 I think it happens in all religions. Christian, Buddhism, all have them. I'm really glad I never really bought much Christian paraphernalia, because now I would view it as a big waste of money. My best friend, who is a Pagan, gets really disgusted when she sees the books in stores for Wicca that give you all sorts of "spells for daily life!" and endorse strange magic and cures. She knows that's rather... erm... bull-ish. She may be pagan, but she doesn't believe in instant magic. Even atheism has it: Darwin Fish for your car, red "A" necklacesetc. Not as bad as the holy-water treatments and expensive Prayer Cross jewelry and self-help books and special edition bibles. Some of those can be downright harmful, though. There are people out there looking for the penny, and they'll step all over people to get it. We're a consumer society: it's how we roll. I have to admit- if I ran across a good atheism shirt, like one with the invisible pink unicorn or FSM, I might just buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-mindwanderings Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 I agree with a few others here. I don't mind the trinkets, the stickers, the pretties so much (because I buy random pretty stuff without the spiritual inclinations) but I do get a bit annoyed by the psychics, palm readers, and completely pissed off at those who charge hundreds of dollars for woo woo treatments and attunements. Spirituality as a product is very marketable. When I first started as a pagan I was practicing in secret of my parents and completely broke so I did not have anything more than some glade scented candles and a knife from a little oriental gift shop that I got for $4. I would wish I had a whole meditation room with an alter and pillars for the candles and everything the way you see it in the books or in an occult store. But there was something very nice about sneaking out at night and walking to the park on the full moon to simply be alone outside under the stars. Just me and the universe. I think thats the saddest part of all, that when a person does buy the new age music, incense burners, statues, chalices, pentacles, robes, wands, crystals etc etc, that the essence of the spirituality they were striving for has been cut off. Its now more like a play. Over the years I've accumulated some more things but trying to achieve that witchy or spiritual "look" is no longer important to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 When I first started as a pagan I was practicing in secret of my parents and completely broke so I did not have anything more than some glade scented candles and a knife from a little oriental gift shop that I got for $4. I would wish I had a whole meditation room with an alter and pillars for the candles and everything the way you see it in the books or in an occult store. But there was something very nice about sneaking out at night and walking to the park on the full moon to simply be alone outside under the stars. Just me and the universe. I think thats the saddest part of all, that when a person does buy the new age music, incense burners, statues, chalices, pentacles, robes, wands, crystals etc etc, that the essence of the spirituality they were striving for has been cut off. Its now more like a play. Over the years I've accumulated some more things but trying to achieve that witchy or spiritual "look" is no longer important to me at all. There certainly is something about starting out in secret and poor that keeps it all very "real" when it comes to the whole pagan thing. All the books I've read say all you really need is the air your breathe, the fire of the sun, the earth under your feet, and the water in your veins - or out of the tap, whichever. But the attractive accessories can easily distract someone - it seems to be a good thing to be forced to go "without" the fancy altar, the giant candles and embroidered robes and whatnot, so if/when they do come, the focus isn't on the thing. I did my best rituals with a pocketknife, a wal-mart votive candle, packet of salt, and a walk out into the local state forest. I made my wand from an oak sapling on that walk. I used water from the creek. My altar was a lovely rock by the creek. I have many of the "things" now, but I still love just going outside in the moonlight - that can be enough of a ritual for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 Is it just me, or is anyone else put off by the sort of industry nowadays around the implements of "spirituality." I mean a whole industry involving the selling of malas, cushions, special clothing, massages, past life regression, so-called therapies, so-called retreats, etc, etc ad nauseum... Other than it fits with Right Livelyhood? Kidding If you think that is bad, you should see what some of these folks charge the clergy. I think there is a difference between "practice articles" and "the lifestyle". I am not really referring to necklaces, small trinkets, and books. There is nothing wrong with beautiful, well made items or having an altar and putting these things in your house. I guess I am talking about buying items that attempt to show in public that you have some exalted level of enlightenment or something. Fancy clothing, prayer shawls, fancy malas, book holders, whipping out small gold statues of deities at the public recitations, all kinds of other stuff for an outward show. I know people take vows of one kind or another, and maybe wearing special clothing is part of it, but you have no way of knowing. It seems like a show. Fake, if you will. These folks all have enough money to travel from Florida to upstate New York to do month long retreats or ceremonies to get these special vows. Money just seems to be the bottom line in Dharma as in all other religions. Yet don't we know that in fact it CAN'T be the bottom line. Its not for sale, not about money, and it can't be about business. Can't help but wonder how some of these folks act "in real life" if someone cuts them off in traffic, takes a dislike to them, undermines their career (as I have recently experienced), etc... Does the idea of revenge ever creep into their super-enlightened minds? I am saying it all seems hollow in comparison to what we have to deal with outside the group. Its no different than a church. I am thinking organized religion in any form is just not for me. I think the "Dharma Center" is a unique manifestation of western Buddhism. They did not have places like this in Tibet. Lamas would periodically visit the remote village and do ceremonies. Or, people would go to monasteries for these things. I doubt the average yak herdsman had the money or ability to do long retreats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 I wonder how some people who market the shit can feel okay with themselves knowing they are peddling crap. Yes, I wonder about that too. How about using a center for the study and practice of Buddhism to promote your business. It seems like the Christian yellow pages all over again You may wonder if there was some event that started this inquiry. Yes, on wonderful Facebook I was suddenly getting all kinds of promotions for day long yoga retreats, etc. from a member of the Dharma center I attend. Also many pictures of this individual attending retreats in New York, visiting Bali, etc... Not only that, but this person is also selling trinkets online in competition with the bookstore the center has. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 We're a consumer society: it's how we roll. That's right -- and we are manipulated constantly to buy more and more useless stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 “Everything is addition or subtraction, the rest is conversation.” - The character of Roberts in Polonsky’s screenplay Body and Soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 I guess I sort of feel like Martin Luther when it comes to this issue. What really got him ticked off was the Catholic Church selling indulgences. I suppose in that regard I am still a true Protestant at heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 I am not really referring to necklaces, small trinkets, and books. There is nothing wrong with beautiful, well made items or having an altar and putting these things in your house. Agreed. I guess I am talking about buying items that attempt to show in public that you have some exalted level of enlightenment or something. Fancy clothing, prayer shawls, fancy malas, book holders, whipping out small gold statues of deities at the public recitations, all kinds of other stuff for an outward show. Certainly these things have their use, but a lot of the time you are right it's for show. I know people take vows of one kind or another, and maybe wearing special clothing is part of it, but you have no way of knowing. It seems like a show. Fake, if you will. Yes and no. The fancy garb and ceremonial vows are unnecessary. However, these sorts of things are meant to awaken a mindset within the person, something they should strive to bring back into their "mundane reality". Sometimes it is as you say, something just for show. These folks all have enough money to travel from Florida to upstate New York to do month long retreats or ceremonies to get these special vows. Money just seems to be the bottom line in Dharma as in all other religions. Yet don't we know that in fact it CAN'T be the bottom line. Its not for sale, not about money, and it can't be about business. Indeed. One thing to bear in mind that the traditional means of support for the sangha is not here in the West so the entire model had to adapt. Interestingly, these retreats are little slices of the monastic life, a way for folks to lead a contemplative life for a short while. Money keeps the institution of Buddhism alive, it has nothing to do with the study and practice of Dharma, or any other path for that matter. Can't help but wonder how some of these folks act "in real life" if someone cuts them off in traffic, takes a dislike to them, undermines their career (as I have recently experienced), etc... They probably act just like people do. Does the idea of revenge ever creep into their super-enlightened minds? when I meet a super-enlightened mind, I'll be sure to ask. I am saying it all seems hollow in comparison to what we have to deal with outside the group. Its no different than a church. I am thinking organized religion in any form is just not for me. perhaps I think the "Dharma Center" is a unique manifestation of western Buddhism. They did not have places like this in Tibet. Lamas would periodically visit the remote village and do ceremonies. Or, people would go to monasteries for these things. I doubt the average yak herdsman had the money or ability to do long retreats. As I said above, our society doesn't offer that means of support. You are right though, the "laity" in traditional Buddhist societies don't appear to engage in things like retreats. The West has been steadily blurring the line between monastic and lay practitioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 when I meet a super-enlightened mind, I'll be sure to ask. I phrased that one wrongly. I mean it appears from the outward show like they have super-enlightened minds. Of course I am in no position to say actually whether they do or don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 regardless to how it was phrased, it is still a good question to put to such a mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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