Nearly there

[Guest AndyPandy]

Hiya, all,

 

I'm having problems with my deconversion and wondered if you could help.

 

I've been a believer of various forms of Christianity since a small child, and got tingly spinal feelings every time I went into a church (not so much these days!). I pursued religion in my teens (after having been brought up Anglican), then went on to an Evangelical group, and then on to the Christadelphians. The only reason I did not get baptised into the latter was because I was gay, and did not want to put myself through a baptism, only to disappoint people afterwards. I left each religious group in turn after a few years.

 

My problem is this: in my life, I consider I've been very fortunate. I've grown up in an era of free healthcare (I live in the UK), free education, lived in pretty English villages in thatched cottages, fell by chance into a profession that's paid me well and taken me all over the world. I feel all this happened because I prayed for it, and my prayers were answered. I certainly seemed to feel the hand of God - or something or someone - in my good fortune. Now I'm worried, if I denounce my faith and God entirely, then all this will be taken away from me and that I won't have the spiritual backup I used in the past to help.

 

It sounds really pathetic and spineless, but given I'm still teetering on the brink here, I don't want to go making any mistakes, do I?!

 

I also feel very guilty (product of church teaching?) because members of each of the religious groups I belonged to helped me in my journey in life, providing shelter, food, and support in many different ways. I feel in debt to these people, and while I cannot believe now what they believe in, I still feel I'd be cocking a snoop at their kind ministrations.

 

How do I resolve these conflicts? Does anyone even understand them?

 

My deconversion experience has happened very rapidly in the last few days. I always knew I would have to deal with it at some point, but this past week it's all happened at once. To be honest, it feels like a bereavement, but I also have that feeling that I cannot go back.

 

If you harboured guilty feelings, how did you counteract them?

 

I don't yet feel intellectually armed enough to justify my actions to myself. In fact, I feel like a right thicko!

 

Thanks for reading, and any help is thankfully received.

 

AndyPandy

[MQTA]

check out Wayne Dyer's early books, his first 4 or so, they'll help ya.

 

Giving up the fantasy of Christianity doesn't mean throwing out your spirituality and synchronicity in your life, it can and should only get even BETTER.

[Totallyatpeace]

Checks forum rules to see if Christians can post here.........

 

I just have a question. Did I miss the part in there about why you feel you need to walk away from your faith when it seems to have been a good experience for you?

 

I'm not going to offer any advice or anything since you are seeking help from non-christians. I'm just wondering if you would be willing to add that on so I can better understand.

 

I read along to learn.

 

Tap

[Guest AndyPandy]

Checks forum rules to see if Christians can post here.........

 

I just have a question. Did I miss the part in there about why you feel you need to walk away from your faith when it seems to have been a good experience for you?

 

I'm not going to offer any advice or anything since you are seeking help from non-christians. I'm just wondering if you would be willing to add that on so I can better understand. 

 

I read along to learn.

 

Tap

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I feel I need to walk away from my faith because, well, I don't HAVE faith anymore - or only remnants of it. I feel guilty for having no faith, and feel that the guilt is the last remnant of that faith.

 

Plus the gay thing. Whole other thread for a whole other time.

 

Plus the women issues, Biblical inconsistencies, and just something about the whole deal not ringing quite true - after all, if we are removed from God becausde of our sin (which I didn't ask for, btw), Christianity is one great big ol' complicated way to get back to God.

 

And that's the other thing: I'm at that point where I don't know what I think about God anymore - there or not? Provable or not?

 

I'm worried that I get stuck at this phase.

 

Thanks,

 

AndyPandy

[Totallyatpeace]

Thank you for answering, Andy.

 

Tap

 

By the way......stuck where you are right now...............it's no fun at all.

 

Take care.

[Mythra]

Hi Andy.

 

All of us were there at one time too. It's awful to be conflicted like that, and hesitant to make a move, one way or the other. When I first escaped from christianity, I was waiting for God to strike me dead at any moment, or something awful to happen. It never did. I'm doing just fine. Life goes on, pretty much as it always has.

 

Sounds like you have "been fortunate" - or blessed - or perhaps things just worked out well for you, you made good choices, and you are talented and smart enough to make things work to your advantage.

 

Welcome to Ex-C. There's lots of good articles on the archives page. Lots of interesting reading here in the forums.

 

ps. I got a kick out of your vernacular. I've never heard the terms "right thicko" or "cocking a snoop". Made me smile.

[Mike D]

Hi Andy, from your story it sounds like you pretty much don't believe anymore but maybe don't want to acknowledge it for fear of losing the comfortable life you have built for yourself. Is that correct? All I can say to that is in the past few years that I have stopped believing in God, stopped praying, etc., my life has continued to get better. In fact when I look at my life when I was really a "true believer" and now as an atheist, it's almost day and night. I went from being poor, stressed out, frustrated, no direction, etc., to having a decent amount of money, good career, alot less stress, less frustration, etc., I think because all the baggage that comes with being Christian (and religious) is gone. I no longer live my life in fear of angry jealous gods just waiting to smite me or throw me into a lake of fire and torture me because I didn't do everything I was supposed to do, or somehow Satan tricked me into believing lies (rolls eyes). Nor do I have to worry about the same fate for my friends, family, etc. I don't have to deal with stress of tyring to live up to some Christian's idea of what type of person I should be, I am free to be whoever I am. And more importantly I don't sit around on my ass all day doing nothing for myself, and instead praying to Jesus to make my life better, when it's pretty obvious he doesn't do anything. Nothing changed for me until I finally took matters into my own hands and stopped believing the lies!

[Fweethawt]

Hiya, all,

 

I'm having problems with my deconversion and wondered if you could help.

Welcome to the forum, Andy. You've come to the right place. Just try to keep in mind, though, that there is no set-in-stone method of acquiring the type of help that you're in need of at this point. What happens here is, our members will read your thread, compare your experiences with theirs, give comments, opinions, and advice, then whatever you do with that information is completely up to you. It's your choice.

 

However, as a rule (the only one that I can think of at this point), there won't be any threatening or any other type of barbaric coersion to get you to follow a certain "path". This new "path" that lies in front of you is yours, and yours alone.

 

I've been a believer of various forms of Christianity since a small child, and got tingly spinal feelings every time I went into a church (not so much these days!).

I remember getting those types of feelings whenver I stepped into another type of church outside of the Catholic religion in which I was raised.

 

Of course, this "feeling" was more of a stand-offish type of fear. Since I was raised in the Catholic church, which pretty much consists of a nice, quiet, and calm atmosphere, I was a bit umm... AMAZED when I decided to try out one of those pentecostal churches. Let's just leave it at that.

 

I pursued religion in my teens (after having been brought up Anglican), then went on to an Evangelical group, and then on to the Christadelphians.  The only reason I did not get baptised into the latter was because I was gay, and did not want to put myself through a baptism, only to disappoint people afterwards.  I left each religious group in turn after a few years.

Ah, yes, peer pressure. There ain't nothin' like it. It doesn't matter if you're happy or not, just don't go kickin' the nest.

 

Either way, your decision was wise. By doing that, you took steps that lead down the "path" of not having to pretend being someone that you're not. Good for you!

 

My problem is this:  in my life, I consider I've been very fortunate.  I've grown up in an era of free healthcare (I live in the UK), free education, lived in pretty English villages in thatched cottages, fell by chance into a profession that's paid me well and taken me all over the world.  I feel all this happened because I prayed for it, and my prayers were answered.

You have been fortunate. There's no doubt about that. The reason for all of this was chance. There are many people who are born into unfortunate circumstances, and they "worship" the very same "God" that you claimed to worship.

 

I've heard that he ain't no respecter of persons, but damn!

 

Yes, you are fortunate. Enjoy it while you can.

 

I certainly seemed to feel the hand of God - or something or someone - in my good fortune.

You've simply been taught to interpret those feelings that way. You have a good life. You have every reason to be happy.

 

I've known people who thought that their pet rock brought them good fortune.

 

Your happiness doesn't exactly need a focal point. It just is.

 

Now I'm worried, if I denounce my faith and God entirely, then all this will be taken away from me and that I won't have the spiritual backup I used in the past to help.

 

It sounds really pathetic and spineless, but given I'm still teetering on the brink here, I don't want to go making any mistakes, do I?!

I wish that I could say that your fear of this is baseless, but in a way, it's not. But, then again, my comment is based on not knowing how your employer would react if he/she/they found out that you are no longer a believer.

 

Your fear of losing everything is a bit misdirected here. There is no vengeful, imaginary God that is going to take your livelihood away because you no longer believe in it. But there is a bit of a chance that your employer might take it away.

 

This all depends on your circumstances though. I don't know a thing about your employer.

 

I also feel very guilty (product of church teaching?) because members of each of the religious groups I belonged to helped me in my journey in life, providing shelter, food, and support in many different ways.  I feel in debt to these people, and while I cannot believe now what they believe in, I still feel I'd be cocking a snoop at their kind ministrations.

The answer to your question about the guilt is, yes. Yes, your guilt is most definitely a product of church teaching. Damn! Now that I think about it, guilt induction is about the only real success that the church has.

 

I have no idea what "cocking a snoop" means, but is sure sounds funny. If what you meant by that is, that you would feel like you've taken advantage of their help, don't. There's a really good chance that you will get to see those peoples "True Colors" in the event that you decide to walk away from it all. Then, and only then, should you decide if you feel like you've cocked a snoop.

How do I resolve these conflicts?

Time and patience.

 

Does anyone even understand them?

A lot of people here have managed their way through very similar circumstances, and they are much happier with their lives now. We have a handful of some of the nicest homosexual males here who have shed their religious past and have no intention of looking back.

 

My deconversion experience has happened very rapidly in the last few days.  I always knew I would have to deal with it at some point, but this past week it's all happened at once.

Once again, " Time and patience."

 

continued.....

[Fweethawt]

Part two....

 

To be honest, it feels like a bereavement, but I also have that feeling that I cannot go back.

I know, we know, a lot of us here know exactly what you meant when you typed this out. Like any other pain, it eases in time.

 

If you harboured guilty feelings, how did you counteract them?

I can't help you here. Guilt was the last thing on my mind during my deconversion.

 

I don't yet feel intellectually armed enough to justify my actions to myself.  In fact, I feel like a right thicko!

I'm sure that other people will come along and give advice to help you out here. But me? I'll just give you a link.

 

CLICK HERE <--- if that doesn't get you started, I don't know what will.

[MQTA]

Hi Andy, from your story it sounds like you pretty much don't believe anymore but maybe don't want to acknowledge it for fear of losing the comfortable life you have built for yourself.  Is that correct?  All I can say to that is in the past few years that I have stopped believing in God, stopped praying, etc., my life has continued to get better.  In fact when I look at my life when I was really a "true believer" and now as an atheist, it's almost day and night.  I went from being poor, stressed out, frustrated, no direction, etc., to having a decent amount of money, good career, alot less stress, less frustration, etc.,  I think because all the baggage that comes with being Christian (and religious) is gone.  I no longer live my life in fear of angry jealous gods just waiting to smite me or throw me into a lake of fire and torture me because I didn't do everything I was supposed to do, or somehow Satan tricked me into believing lies (rolls eyes).  Nor do I have to worry about the same fate for my friends, family, etc.  I don't have to deal with stress of tyring to live up to some Christian's idea of what type of person I should be, I am free to be whoever I am.  And more importantly I don't sit around on my ass all day doing nothing for myself, and instead praying to Jesus to make my life better, when it's pretty obvious he doesn't do anything.  Nothing changed for me until I finally took matters into my own hands and stopped believing the lies!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There ya go. The most ironic i the offering of witnessing that you can't get if you listen to them, but only if you walk away from it and see reality for what it is.

[pandora]

Hi and welcome. We have all been there and I totally understand your conflicted state. *hugs*

 

There comes a point when no matter how much you WANT to believe, you can't. Once you can accept that, the next step is to decide to be intellectually honest with yourself. It's hard, but eventually you will see the wisdom in your decision (even though I don't think it is a decision, really... it is just acknowledging what you have known in your mind and heart for a long time).

Best wishes on your journey!

[Guest AndyPandy]

Wow, people - WOW!

 

Thanks for the wonderful and well-presented messages of support and experiences. I really appreciate the time and effort spent on answering my concerns. I'm going to print this thread out and study it more closely. Just knowing others have gone through similar or same thoughts and feelings is a comfort in itself.

 

Next thing I'm wondering is, after realising you've been duped for so long, was there a period of rage or anger, particularly directed to believers?

 

Thanks, again, everyone. Feeling much better about things now.

 

AndyPandy

 

PS: "Cock a snoop" is a bastardisation of "cock a snook" which is putting your thumb on your nose, spreading your fingers out and waggling them about - a sign of contempt and a visual signal of "nyaaa nyaaa nya-nya nyaaaa".

[Godless Wonder]

I've never been a Christian, but I have a collection of links of stories of Ex-C's which might give you some encouragement, just seeing how other people have come through a similar situation.

 

This one is good (and a little bit famous) Long, but worth reading:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=72552

 

More: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=35947

 

And of course: http://exchristian.net/testimonies/

(click on the dates in the "section archives" to the left to get

more stories... )

 

http://exchristian.org/ (click on "date" to sort the stories by date...)

 

This site is great:

http://ebonmusings.org/

 

Scrolling down on this page, you'll find a list of Decnoversion Stories.

http://ebonmusings.org/atheism/index.html

 

This person's story is very interesting because unlike most others, it was written while it was happening rather than after the fact:

http://www.students.yorku.ca/~kaldeway/faith/index.shtml

 

Hope you find these interesting and to be some help.

[Checkmate]

How do I resolve these conflicts?  Does anyone even understand them?

............................

If you harboured guilty feelings, how did you counteract them? 

 

I don't yet feel intellectually armed enough to justify my actions to myself.  In fact, I feel like a right thicko!

........................

AndyPandy

Hello, AndyPandy! Trust me, we DO understand what you're going through. Been there, done that, burnt the T-shirt.

 

And rather than go on all day with maudlin repititions, I offer up the deconversion testimony of Robby Berry.

Why I Became an Ex-Christian

 

One bit of his story I find to be particularly universal to all us apostates is this:

I finally arrived at the point where I knew I had to make a decision. I could spend the rest of my life as a Christian. That would condemn me to a life of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. Or I could become an atheist, which would mean taking my current worldview and mutilating it beyond recognition-- to say nothing of losing my friends (most of whom were Christian) and risking the wrath of my parents (I still lived at home at the time). I'd like to say I became an atheist then and there, but the sad truth is that for several weeks I was too cowardly to do so. But finally, I was able to admit to myself that I no longer believed in God.

 

Emotionally, the process was a nightmare, a genuine living hell. In the months prior to my deconversion, I fluctuated between confusion, depression, self-hatred, terror and rage. Confusion, because my whole worldview was falling apart, and I didn't know what to believe anymore. Depression, because I felt as though I was losing my best friend. Self-hatred, because I hated the fact that I was so "weak in my faith", and I hated even more the fact that I wasn't strong enough to break free of it all. Terror, because I didn't like the prospect of being burned alive for eternity if I was wrong. Rage, because, from my point of view, I had been tricked into believing a load of bullshit. The nightmare dragged on for weeks until I finally decided that enough was enough, I was an atheist, and that was that.

I find this process reminiscent of the five-stages of grief in that we are truly grieving the loss of something we once cherished. Something that has deceived and betrayed us. Very much akin to leaving a bad marriage. Sad, but very necessary.

 

Hopefully KNOWING that what you're feeling is natural and has happened to many (if not all) of us will be a sufficient balm to ease the pain and confusion of your travails.

 

Peace.

[Lilith]

Next thing I'm wondering is, after realising you've been duped for so long, was there a period of rage or anger, particularly directed to believers? 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When the realization hit that I'd been duped, it was like a slow dawn breaking in my mind. Seriously, it was nearly a physical sensation, and that is the best way I know to describe that sensation. I had a bit of horror mixed with awe that not only had I been taken for a ride, but myGOD, so has thousands upon thousands of people!

 

Once it sunk in a bit more, it was more of a, "Well I'll be damned....." feeling. I was a bit angry with myself for all the wasted years, but never angry at the church or people specifically. My philosphy is that *I* am responsible for my own actions. It was no one's fault but my own.

 

And besides that, I did learn a lot through the years. I've not dropped my spirituality altogether....just the christian portion of it.

[thomas]

Welcome here AndyPandy

 

....  in my life, I consider I've been very fortunate. ........  I certainly seemed to feel the hand of God - or something or someone - in my good fortune.  Now I'm worried, if I denounce my faith and God entirely, then all this will be taken away from me and that I won't have the spiritual backup I used in the past to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I can relate to this. And although I also have had difficult times, I still had this feeling that I basically was very fortunate and that everything was going to be fine.

 

As I have deconverted (a very long process starting with a search for better version of christianity), I have begun to look at my life in a different way. When I look back I do not like the kind of (fundy religious) person I have been, but nevertheless I still have this feeling of being fortunate. And I sometimes still feel that god is right beside me, even though I do not believe in him any more.

 

 

The fears you have are well known to all of us here. It is part of the christian programming you have been through. But loosing faith is basically about being honest to one self. And if there after all is some kind of a god somewhere, I cannot see why such a god should be angry at you for being honest about your own thoughts.

 

So just take it easy, and begin to enjoy your new life free from the boundage of christianity.

[MQTA]

another of those Why Left sites

 

http://www.users.bigpond.com/pmurray/exchr.../ByWhyLeft.html

[Vixentrox]

A lot of us have been in that middling place....teetering on the edge. Eventually I prayed to a brick and prayed to god and got the same answer. That is, none at all. It was my final proof that it was all hooey. Surely god would have saved his lost sheep who was desperatly trying to hold on to the belief for so long. But he didn't...and the brick was just a brick, but more real than god.

[Ouroboros]

Next thing I'm wondering is, after realising you've been duped for so long, was there a period of rage or anger, particularly directed to believers? 

YES. And sometimes I can feel it still. In the beginning I didn't know why, but now I do. The anger is mostly against me, for being so stupid to believe things that don't exist. This is a normal reaction with people that just have been duped or conned. They feel ashamed and anger against themselves, and it easily turns outwards towards other people. And this is the reason why this site is SOOOO GOOOOOD, because here you can let it all out, and you can learn how to discuss without this baggage of emotions.

[Cynetix]

AndyPandy, please forgive the following post's structure as I'm not trying to hijack the thread. I think you'll see that after you read.

 

My loss of faith was in two parts. The first part, I was going through a rough divorce and cried and screamed at the ceiling several nights for gawd to help me. The last night, when I sat down on my bed, exhausted, I had a moment of clarity. An inner voice (referred to as reason) told me to pick myself up by the bootstraps and handle things according to what I felt was right because, after all, it was all about me in the end. That voice couldn't have been more right. That inner voice helped me to face the next part.

 

6 months later, I hit a really big brick wall when my father, who'd been my role model and driven gawd down my throat since I was a child, became adultorous. He treated my mother and sister like shit during the process of removing himself from our lives. He took all those family values and other things and threw them in my face. It was like "So I lied all those years, what of it?" I collapsed in my bathroom floor, sobbing, knowing my family, that I had loved and cherished, even fought over, would never be the same again. I asked gawd why he'd let this happen to someone who was supposed to be a child of "his". I never received that answer. That's when my own inner searching really began. It hurt to realize that both of the figures that I had been led to believe were there to help, teach protect and guide me were both false. But, like me, over time, you'll find that mentally harmonious plain and things fall into place like tumblers in a lock.

 

As other people have said here, don't rush it. There will be some hurt, some doubts and fears, possibly feelings of betrayal that need to be overcome but they are all a natural part of the healing process. Let them happen. Don't fight them. People have suggested reading materials. I suggest meditation. It works for me and that's what you'll have to discover on the road to living your life shackle free: what methods work for you.

 

Not to sound like a broken record but people are here for you. We can't take your pain from you or tell you how to feel but we can help be that lighthouse that keeps you from crashing back into the rocks. I raise a toast to you and wish you only the best on your way to true enlightenment.

[LloydDobler]

The answer to all your questions, is YES. We've all been there. You're in good company. I wanted to touch on the 5 stages of grief that Mr Grinch mentioned in his post. I was taught these as part of my state mandated divorce counseling, and I really think they're cool and valuable to know.

 

Denial

Anger

Bargaining

Depression

Acceptance

 

These phases are not in any particular order and you do not pass through them one at a time. Through my divorce for example I skipped denial completely and then spent a long time cycling through anger, bargaining, and depression and then back to anger.

 

With christianity, I spent about 2 years in denial and another year in bargaining. For the denial, I just repeated this to myself and everyone around me: "I'm having some trouble with the bible but I still believe in Jesus." My faith was gone but I denied it.

 

For the Bargaining stage I spent a long time praying for god to give me a sign. I didn't want a sign to show other people, I wanted him to reveal himself to me in a personal and significant way, so that I would have a focal point for my faith. Something that I could not question. It never came.

 

Since then, I've had some anger derived from the feeling that I wasted a lot of time and energy on religion. It was coupled timing wise with my divorce, so a lot of my anger at my ex wife has been directed at religion too. If I wasn't religious I would have ended that relationship 3-4 years prior and saved myself a lot of headache.

 

AndyPandy, I think the thing that I went through that is most relevant to you... I didn't realize myself the extent to which I had deconverted until a friend of mine revealed that he was in the same 'denial' stage that I had already passed through. He said the exact same thing I did. 'I have problems with the bible, but I still believe in Jesus'. I laughed. I was like 'omg I just got done saying that. It's just fire insurance.' We talked at great length that night and that is the point I cite now as the true end of my faith. We laughed together at what a crock the bible is, and at the way we were taught to just accept it. He wasn't ready to really give up on Jesus at that point, but I did.

 

But arguing with and reinforcing the lack of faith of another is what finally caused me to fully acknowledge my status as an ex christian.

 

Good luck and don't be a stranger.

[Guest AndyPandy]

Just checked back in, and even more superb replies. I can't tell you enough how grateful I am for the time you've taken to help me over this difficult hump. The advice and sharing means a lot to me.

 

What does stand out, though, is the amount of pain people have gone / are going through. I have to wonder what kind of controlling and evil agenda (even if they don't know it sometimes) these religious organisations have.

 

A few years ago I read that Dava Sobel book about Galileo, and thinking back, I think that was the beginning of my doubts. I couldn't believe an organisation that was SO convinced it had the One True Way would be intimidated by a bit of scientific knowledge. This way of thinking seems to permeate so many religious institutions, especially those who rely on the testimony of Middle Eastern desert people a couple of thousand years ago.

 

There was a programme on telly the other night about religion in Britain in the 17th and 18th centuries. The grip on the masses was just about absolute. How brave anyone then must've been to be a dissenter. The amount of people's lives that were suppressed or cut short in the name of religion, or more specifically, Christianity, doesn't bear thinking about. I got to thinking, do I want to be involved in any way with that type of organisation, whose main doctrines are based on guilt, fear, hate, oppression? No!

 

But these rational thoughts don't, unfortunately, always percolate through to the emtional centres. I still harbour that "what if..." feeling, that perhaps I AM wrong, and that perhaps one day I'll have my very own Road to Damascus experience. I have to say, I doubt it. No matter how much I think perhaps I'd go back to it, once those inconsistencies had been pointed out, I'll be a massive great hypocrite.

 

The things I have to remind myself when I feel myself wavering, are: 1) God has the power to create the earth in six days, yet completely messed up when man came along. If we're part of His creation, wouldn't He have complete control? 2) Salvation is so effing complicated. Puhhhleeease! First acknowledge you were made imperfect, then acknowledge there's nothing you can do about it on your own, then acknowledge that some guy said he'd die in our place (although we still seem to die, unfortunately), then believe that he didn't die because he was blameless, live up to that standard, eat and drink of him once a week, occasionally gabble on in some heavenly langauge and all will be OK. No, it's too confusing.

 

Anyway, my point of posting (forgive the rambling, it's late and after work), was that I have ONE big fear left. I hate flying. Whenever I get in an aeroplane, I go through every prayer to God, Angels, Lord's Prayer, again and again and again. Does anyone else have this fear? What am I going to do now when we hit a rough patch of turbulence? Short of clinging on to the seat in front of me and dripping sweat, how will my racing mind find comfort?

 

Thanks all again for the superb posting. It's so good to talk to people who understand finally!

[Guest Challenger]

(AndyPandy)

Anyway, my point of posting (forgive the rambling, it's late and after work), was that I have ONE big fear left. I hate flying. Whenever I get in an aeroplane, I go through every prayer to God, Angels, Lord's Prayer, again and again and again. Does anyone else have this fear? What am I going to do now when we hit a rough patch of turbulence? Short of clinging on to the seat in front of me and dripping sweat, how will my racing mind find comfort?

 

Hey Andy,

 

I don't have a fear of flying but I have hit some turbulence when I have. It isn't a lot of fun. I just keep in mind that in all likelihood the pilots have had years of experience in dealing with that sort of thing, and they know how to do their jobs. They would have plenty of time to react if anything happened, which it very seldom does anyway.

 

By the way, welcome to Ex-C! I'm glad you found us!

 

Challenger

[Fweethawt]

Anyway, my point of posting (forgive the rambling, it's late and after work), was that I have ONE big fear left.  I hate flying.  Whenever I get in an aeroplane, I go through every prayer to God, Angels, Lord's Prayer, again and again and again.  Does anyone else have this fear?  What am I going to do now when we hit a rough patch of turbulence?  Short of clinging on to the seat in front of me and dripping sweat, how will my racing mind find comfort?

 

In situations like that, I'd have to say that it would be a good time to get on your knees and ask Jesus to save you from the firey pits of hell.

 

 

No, really now...

 

I haven't flown anywhere since my deconversion, and I only remember being a bit nervous on my first few flights. I do remember going through two very turbulent flights on my way back home. I just sat back, clutched the armrests, realized that there wasn't a darn thing that I could do about it even if the plane went down, and enjoyed observing everyone elses reactions.

 

Prayer never even entered into my thoughts at the time.

[Lens]

Hiya, all,

 

  I've grown up in an era of free healthcare (I live in the UK), free education, lived in pretty English villages in thatched cottages, fell by chance into a profession that's paid me well and taken me all over the world. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi AndyPandy,

 

As most of the other ex-christians have noted, I too have been exactly where you are.

 

I do have a proposition for you that may ease your guilt about your good life. Here it is: Let's trade lives for a while.

 

Here are the details of the life you would get in exchange:

 

You would be living in the deep south, a republican christian conservative born-again state with the worst rated education system in the country, in a nice small home on 3 acres of old growth forest, in a town whose recent claim to fame can be found here.

 

You would be a genuine self-employed small businessman, an artist, who stubbornly refuses to compromise his ideals about his 'art' in order to earn more money. You will be poor.

 

You will have a dog and 7 cats.

 

You will be a freethinker in a town of religious small-minded clones, but will have a small circle of like-minded friends who you can rely on.

 

You will play poker once a month, or so, and get caught bluffing regularly. You will lose money.

 

You will have a beautiful wife who is the most supportive and kind person you have or will ever meet. On second thought, the wife doesn't come with the trade!

 

What do you think? Is it a deal.

 

The description of your life in the UK is my fantasy 'escape from the USA' dream. Sounds idealic. On the good side of things, it will have to be easier for you to find local support with your deconversion than it was for me living here in the 'Bible Belt' of the USA.

 

Good luck to you. If you stay the course with your intellectual honesty, it will be worth it in the end.